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20.th century political innovation?

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fantasus View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 Sep 2009 at 20:12
What was the most innovative aspect in 20.th century international politics, relative to worlds previous history? Could it be the multitude of international, sometimes nearly "universal" organisations for international cooperation (here I do not discuss new internal institutions inside the countries)? Before ww1 one may get a strong impression that international relations were much more about purely often shifting military alliances and much more arbitrary. What pops up are organisations like the League of Nations, UN, EU, WTO, NAFTA, organs of International Justice, IMF etcetera. Could those organisations be regarded as the real "innovation" in international politics, since even big international wars was not at all new(ww1 and ww2 followed a whole "tradition" of wars in especially europe - 30years wars, Napoleonic, etcetera)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2009 at 21:02
You probably have a point. I hope so anyway.
 
However, you might need to compare it with the major religious groupings, like the role of the Roman Church in medieval Europe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2009 at 21:10
Wouldn't the different political treaty groups formed after Vienna (1815) also have gone by the same principles of universal goals in a certain area (holding back either France or German principalities then)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2009 at 22:21
Originally posted by rider rider wrote:

Wouldn't the different political treaty groups formed after Vienna (1815) also have gone by the same principles of universal goals in a certain area (holding back either France or German principalities then)?
I may be wrong, but have got the impression that the post 1815 european "order" were much more limited, not only geographically, but also its aims. More occupied with simply dividing territories, and also preserving the position of the ruling groups. There has of course always throughout history been some sort of diplomacy, negotiations, adn conspirations, alliances. Still one may wonder if not the almost permanent character of cooperation between many states are something relatively new, though I admit I know little about how it worked in peacetime 19.th century(though no doubt some monarchs like the russian czar offered his kind assistance for other monarchs, when they were challenged by dangerous popular forces questioning holy and divine principles of monarchism).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2009 at 01:04
I think the 19th and 20th centuries saw great and gradual political innovation brought about by the change in environment that fast transportation (from the Steamship to Aeroplane) caused.

In fact, the change hasn't stopped, digital communication is continuing to force the evolution of politics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2009 at 07:53
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

I think the 19th and 20th centuries saw great and gradual political innovation brought about by the change in environment that fast transportation (from the Steamship to Aeroplane) caused.

In fact, the change hasn't stopped, digital communication is continuing to force the evolution of politics.
I have never heard anybody denying that steamboats and aeroplanes or digital communication are innovations. But I honestly do´nt see them as "political", unless we use an extremely elastic definition of that term. And I think one could imagine a great variety of political change could have taken place following the spread of those innovations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SPQR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2009 at 14:23
They have made the world "smaller" in a sense to where nations have become closer than ever exchanging cultures, tradtions and well politics. The digital era will make the world even smaller than ever, some examples are the CNN youtube debates and the Iranian elections.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2009 at 15:10
International organisations were always more impressive before the advent of modern communications. Groups like the Catholic Church and the Byzantine Empire spanned huge territories with rather primitive methods of communication.

Realistically the UN could be replaced by an online message board (One for each country) The General Assembly is just pomp personified.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SPQR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2009 at 15:28
You have a point about the U.N.

lol We should make an all empires UN group where we represent countries and type all about our cultures, wants, needs, and greivances.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2009 at 16:36

Though technologies as those mentioned in the thread may have some influence on the working of politics it is notr at all self evident the relationship is that close. To the extend there is and has been a historic relationship between politics and technological change it may very well be a two way relationship, and it may be an open question about the "stronger" force. It is not at all so clear.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2009 at 18:49
Wouldn't the steamship in it's reality be the biggest political weapon concieved? The steamship basically destroyed China and forced Japan into internal struggles; also creating permanent routes over the Atlantic which were easily traversable for normal people, leading to an influx of immigrants in the States, which contributed (and contributes) to their political system greatly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AksumVanguard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2009 at 19:26
I think INTERPOL may be a great example. With a lot of its employees being Federal or National," Law Enforcement Authorities", in  every country, I don't think any of its members could say they are  out of their  jurisdiction on foreign soil. This would be at least until INTERPOL officers consult with co-associates in the country they're operating in.
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