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200 Tamil's coming to Canada!?!

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    Posted: 11 Aug 2010 at 21:06
Sure, Canada is known to accept others in our nation. But It cost us millions for holding 250,000+ refugees in our nation. This link shows us a problem. Sure they are human, but we suspect there is Tamil Tigers on board the ship. Australia denied them access, I think Canada should too. What is your opinions?   http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/08/11/bc-migrant-ship-sir-lanka.html#socialcomments 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2010 at 22:04
Hmmmm... Judging by the comments to the article, Canadian patience and tolerance has been stretched rather tightly. Rather exceptional to see such a reaction from our Northern neighbor? And i can see why:

"Government sources say this ship's arrival, along with reports of other vessels ready to get underway, are a signal that Canada is becoming a target for human traffickers, the CBC's Hall reported."

Could be a test to see the official reaction? Or they could be legitimate refugees? Darn tough call! Being a new report that i am unfamiliar with, i can't offer an opinion at the moment.


Edited by Panther - 11 Aug 2010 at 22:06
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Essentially international law is asking your country to compensate for the failures of elites in other countries to take care of their own people. Naturally your patience is indeed being strained by this experience, I can't say I blame you.

You will continue to lose money taking care of people you did not choose to bring to your society for so long as your people are so scared of appearing right wing that they won't stand up for themselves and declare the entirely reasonable: that they want to use their own country's resources to take care of their own people rather than throwing it at another country's failures.

It's as simple as that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2010 at 23:17
Originally posted by Constantine Constantine wrote:


You will continue to lose money taking care of people you did not choose to bring to your society for so long as your people are so scared of appearing right wing that they won't stand up for themselves


That certainly puts it somewhat into perspective. Canadians shouldn't have to bow down to every pressure form international opinion that demands them to take a leftward point of view, especially when it is against their interest. They should be allowed some room for moderation, they deserve that much consideration, if not more! For once, they should do what they think is best for themselves and screw what everyone else thinks! Or i am i being too bluntly bold?




Edited by Panther - 11 Aug 2010 at 23:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2010 at 23:53
So what is Canada going to do?  What can Canada do to stop economic migrants?

Stories like this can annoy you to the point where you give yourself an aneurysm but the reality of the matter is that these people are in pursuit of a better life; self preservation.  And as long as there is a disparity of wealth in the world then there will always be economic migrants.  

I have a suggestion: Canada should give enough of its wealth away to poor countries in order to reach economic parity with them. Problem solved.  No more economic migrants.  No more aneurysms for honest citizens, or dare I say subjects, such as yourself.  Here now, why did your ancestors migrate to Canada?  Did they give the then incumbent residents any aneurysms?

1 in 6 people in the world are suffering from starvation, this fact hit me like a freight train when I read it in a magazine... on a passenger train.  That's 1 billion fellow human beings who don't have enough food.  Can you imagine what that is like?  I couldn't, so I read up about starvation as a result and, let me tell you, it doesn't sound pleasant.  In fact, it is down right inhumane.  The fact that I am surrounded by such fat self absorbed bastards makes it all the worse (myself included). 

If it was up to me, would I give all of Canada's wealth away? No way.  But being aware of the economic and political realities elsewhere in the world, I would encourage my citizens to appreciate and to take advantage of the privileges and opportunities that they are afforded.  Indeed, I would encourage them to be thankful that they are not in such a position where they need to take such desperate measures and put their lives at risk for these privileges and opportunities.

I wish all migrants everywhere the best of luck in their pursuit of a better life, their efforts deserve nothing less than admiration.

Edited by Zagros - 11 Aug 2010 at 23:59
"There was glory in pissing, Corabb decided as he watched the stream curve out and make that familiar but unique sound as it hit the ground." So true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whalebreath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2010 at 05:59
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

So what is Canada going to do?  What can Canada do to stop economic migrants, etc., etc., etc.....

A specious even snide comment-what Canadians are really worried about are members of a failed armed insurrection-IOW people with a serious grudge-using our refugee system to infiltrate/infect existing communities.

FYI-Canada gives generously to  world development always has/always will you need not give yourself an aneurysm on that point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Madgod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2010 at 13:35
We do give allot, but we get allot off bulls**t in the process. We can only tolerate so much until my people demand that we can take no more. If there is Tigers on the ship that means my nations government and military will have to take action very quick. I feel bad for those who suffer in our planet, but it cost way too dam much to keep everyone here. I don't know bout you guys, but I want my tax money put to better use. The big question is, why are we going to do when the ship reaches Canadian territory? I want them away from my nation...I may sound like an ass, but my nation is almost becoming bankrupt. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2010 at 15:15
Originally posted by whalebreath whalebreath wrote:

Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

So what is Canada going to do?  What can Canada do to stop economic migrants, etc., etc., etc.....

A specious even snide comment-what Canadians are really worried about are members of a failed armed insurrection-IOW people with a serious grudge-using our refugee system to infiltrate/infect existing communities.
But why would they have a grudge against Canada? For instance, Britain took in Huguenots from France, Jews from Poland and Russia, Marxists from Germany. (To balance the picture, Spain and France took in Roman Catholics from Britain.) They all had serious grudges against the countries they came from, but not against the ones that welcomed them. Why would they?
Quote
FYI-Canada gives generously to  world development always has/always will you need not give yourself an aneurysm on that point.
Agreed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2010 at 18:28
Boohoo, how unfortunate that Canada has to put up with what, 200 people?
 
The US was directly responsible for dumping 2.5 million Iraqis on Syria and refused UN funding for them despite the massive budge and trade deficits plus 800k internal refugee due to 3 consecutive years of drought and we heard not a whisper.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whalebreath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2010 at 20:08
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

The US was directly responsible for blah, blah, blah, blah........

You had to find a way to blame the USA for something somewhere didn't you?

No staying On Topic why bother why not just post the same bitter blather over & over & over?

Small wonder this place is such a mausoleum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2010 at 20:24

This has nothing to do with the US, this has to do with the selfish attitudes of some countries who make war, cause misery and then expect others to take the tap.

The US is a perfect example of that. I can count others for you if you want.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2010 at 20:33
Originally posted by The Madgod The Madgod wrote:

We do give allot, but we get allot off bulls**t in the process. We can only tolerate so much until my people demand that we can take no more. If there is Tigers on the ship that means my nations government and military will have to take action very quick. I feel bad for those who suffer in our planet, but it cost way too dam much to keep everyone here. I don't know bout you guys, but I want my tax money put to better use. The big question is, why are we going to do when the ship reaches Canadian territory? I want them away from my nation...I may sound like an ass, but my nation is almost becoming bankrupt. 


Everyone is hardly kept in Canada.  You're complaining about 200 people who will have exactly 0 effect on your life.  There are poor countries like Pakistan, Iran, Syria (as mentioned) who actually support MILLIONS of refugees who have fled as a direct result of actions by rich and powerful nations to make themselves richer and more powerful.  Countless millions more suffer and have died.   You just have to deal with this as a fact of life - people will always flee from poor or oppressed areas to more prosperous ones.

Short of turning Canada into an isolated and introverted country (whose prosperity will decline as a result), there is nothing to be done other than to follow existing legal channels.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2010 at 20:40
Originally posted by whalebreath whalebreath wrote:

Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

So what is Canada going to do?  What can Canada do to stop economic migrants, etc., etc., etc.....

A specious even snide comment-what Canadians are really worried about are members of a failed armed insurrection-IOW people with a serious grudge-using our refugee system to infiltrate/infect existing communities.

FYI-Canada gives generously to  world development always has/always will you need not give yourself an aneurysm on that point.


Well, if you bothered to read the rest of my post which, as you clearly indicated, you didn't then you would have realised, if it's within your capacity to do so, that I was making a rational argument.  

There's nothing wrong with Canada. I was challenging a certain perception.

And I don't see what Canada's generosity to world development has to do with anything I said.   You've gone off-topic. And besides, Canada also benefits economically from its contribution to international development and involvement, as does GBR, through such things as favourable international trade, investment and economic deals and political influence. 



Edited by Zagros - 12 Aug 2010 at 20:44
"There was glory in pissing, Corabb decided as he watched the stream curve out and make that familiar but unique sound as it hit the ground." So true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2010 at 23:05
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

This has nothing to do with the US, this has to do with the selfish attitudes of some countries who make war, cause misery and then expect others to take the tap.

The US is a perfect example of that. I can count others for you if you want.
 
Al-Jassas


If this has nothing to do with the US, then why is the US the perfect example? I'd say that could cause this to go way off topic. Better if left to another thread.

Anyways... here is some Canadian immigration stats to start with
http://www.nationmaster.com/country/ca-canada/imm-immigration

Most recent asylum seekers. Canada is at # 5 on the list at 42.7
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_asy_see-immigration-asylum-seekers

Asylum seekers per capita. Canada is #13 on the list at 1.302 per capita
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_asy_see_percap-immigration-asylum-seekers-per-capita

Foreign born population has Canada at # 5 with 17.4
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_for_pop-immigration-foreign-population

Numbers for immigrant population has Canada at # 7 with 6,106,000
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_imm_pop_num_of_imm-immigration-immigrant-population-number-immigrants

Net Migration by country has Canada at #5 with 1,049,530
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_net_mig-immigration-net-migration

New Citizenship numbers has Canada at #2  with 214.6 thousand
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_new_cit-immigration-new-citizenships

Now as for refugees, i can see  the argument Al Jassas and Zagros has some basis in merit. With Pakistan and Iran topping the list and with Canada at # 17. Of course distance and oceans that keeps the numbers from skyrocketing.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_ref_pop_by_cou_or_ter_of_asy-refugee-population-country-territory-asylum




Edited by Panther - 12 Aug 2010 at 23:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Madgod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2010 at 23:17
The thing is that Canada doesn't need more migrants. We have a steady population and we are going into debt very soon. Our stock market crashed and we are loosing tons of money. We will loose tons of cash with these 200-500 refugees. They will cost Canada over 45k per day on each person. That is allot of waste of money. I'd rather shoot the ship down and call it a natural disaster. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2010 at 01:01

So Canada is just as xenophobic and disproportionate as Australia.

Here's news for you: There is nothing that Canada or Australia can do that is worse than what they're fleeing from.
 
The refugees are the best people you can get as migrants, determined enough to cross thousands of kilometers of ocean, loyal enough to risk their life getting here, and hard working enough that they did it.
 
Fear of boat people is xenophobic bullsh*t and nothing more. Come back when you have unknown thousands of people crossing your impossible to police border.


Edited by Omar al Hashim - 13 Aug 2010 at 01:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Madgod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2010 at 01:50
It is all bout the money Omar, we just can't afford to feed them and clothe them. They are sucking off welfare. If you lived here for five years and payed taxes, you would understand. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2010 at 02:13
Originally posted by The Madgod The Madgod wrote:

It is all bout the money Omar, we just can't afford to feed them and clothe them. They are sucking off welfare. If you lived here for five years and payed taxes, you would understand. 
 
If you don't want them nor can afford them don't be a part of their misery.
 
Canada is a part in the war of Afghanistan and should therefore accept part of the 8 million refugees, they did choose to go to a war which they had absolutely no business in in the 1st place.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Madgod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2010 at 02:18
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Originally posted by The Madgod The Madgod wrote:

It is all bout the money Omar, we just can't afford to feed them and clothe them. They are sucking off welfare. If you lived here for five years and payed taxes, you would understand. 
 
If you don't want them nor can afford them don't be a part of their misery.
 
Canada is a part in the war of Afghanistan and should therefore accept part of the 8 million refugees, they did choose to go to a war which they had absolutely no business in in the 1st place.
 
Al-Jassas
We didn't want that war to begin with Al Jassas! I had several family members die in that part of the planet. It is costing us money to even be there. Also, the Afghan leader requested for foreign assistance eh?


Edited by The Madgod - 13 Aug 2010 at 02:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2010 at 02:35
Originally posted by The Madgod The Madgod wrote:

It is all bout the money Omar, we just can't afford to feed them and clothe them. They are sucking off welfare. If you lived here for five years and payed taxes, you would understand. 
No its not.
They are determined self-reliant people. How do you think they got there? Leave them to their own devices and they'll be taxpayers themselves in no time. Give them 6 months training in English and a skill you need (or they already have) and you'll have a great worker.
 
In 2001 Howard had the SAS storm the Tampa - a Norweigian frieghter that had saved Afghan refugees from drowning when their boat went down. They were then taken to a concentration camp on Naru and held for serveral years. That cost huge amounts of taxpayers money.
When they were finally granted asylum they came to my part of the world. They're not a welfare drain rather a benefit to the whole community. Net cost? Let them in you earn money, try to keep them out a huge expense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Madgod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2010 at 02:42
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

Originally posted by The Madgod The Madgod wrote:

It is all bout the money Omar, we just can't afford to feed them and clothe them. They are sucking off welfare. If you lived here for five years and payed taxes, you would understand. 
No its not.
They are determined self-reliant people. How do you think they got there? Leave them to their own devices and they'll be taxpayers themselves in no time. Give them 6 months training in English and a skill you need (or they already have) and you'll have a great worker.
 
In 2001 Howard had the SAS storm the Tampa - a Norweigian frieghter that had saved Afghan refugees from drowning when their boat went down. They were then taken to a concentration camp on Naru and held for serveral years. That cost huge amounts of taxpayers money.
When they were finally granted asylum they came to my part of the world. They're not a welfare drain rather a benefit to the whole community. Net cost? Let them in you earn money, try to keep them out a huge expense.
It is bout the money! If we can't afford to feed our own people, then why can we afford to feed them? Canada has a high poverty rate because of migrants! There are more locals on the streets becuase of migrants and refugees are taking all of the jobs and welfare money. I do not know where you from, but let us give them to you so you can pay for them. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2010 at 03:55
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:


Canada is a part in the war of Afghanistan and should therefore accept part of the 8 million refugees, they did choose to go to a war which they had absolutely no business in in the 1st place.


Hello Al Jassas.

That is Canada's choice too make that no one else can make for them. Besides Canada did not have a choice over Afghanistan. They went in as a part of Nato, not as some part of a weird design  that props up the US imperial conspiracy theory. Now if we were talking about Iraq, then that would be different. Canada had a choice of putting boots on the ground and they chose not too. I can respect that.


Edited by Panther - 13 Aug 2010 at 03:56
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I am glad you pointed that out Panther. We have our obligations for the world, but accepting so many people in my nation would cost Canada and maybe the UN $100 Million CDN per year. Our Naval forces and including the RCMP vessels just boarded the ship. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2010 at 09:15
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

Originally posted by The Madgod The Madgod wrote:

It is all bout the money Omar, we just can't afford to feed them and clothe them. They are sucking off welfare. If you lived here for five years and payed taxes, you would understand. 
No its not.
They are determined self-reliant people. How do you think they got there? Leave them to their own devices and they'll be taxpayers themselves in no time. Give them 6 months training in English and a skill you need (or they already have) and you'll have a great worker.
 
In 2001 Howard had the SAS storm the Tampa - a Norweigian frieghter that had saved Afghan refugees from drowning when their boat went down. They were then taken to a concentration camp on Naru and held for serveral years. That cost huge amounts of taxpayers money.
When they were finally granted asylum they came to my part of the world. They're not a welfare drain rather a benefit to the whole community. Net cost? Let them in you earn money, try to keep them out a huge expense.


Good point well made. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2010 at 09:30
Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:


Canada is a part in the war of Afghanistan and should therefore accept part of the 8 million refugees, they did choose to go to a war which they had absolutely no business in in the 1st place.


Hello Al Jassas.

That is Canada's choice too make that no one else can make for them. Besides Canada did not have a choice over Afghanistan. They went in as a part of Nato, not as some part of a weird design  that props up the US imperial conspiracy theory. Now if we were talking about Iraq, then that would be different. Canada had a choice of putting boots on the ground and they chose not too. I can respect that.
 
It doesn't matter, they went to war they have to face the consequences.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Madgod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2010 at 13:52
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:


Canada is a part in the war of Afghanistan and should therefore accept part of the 8 million refugees, they did choose to go to a war which they had absolutely no business in in the 1st place.


Hello Al Jassas.

That is Canada's choice too make that no one else can make for them. Besides Canada did not have a choice over Afghanistan. They went in as a part of Nato, not as some part of a weird design  that props up the US imperial conspiracy theory. Now if we were talking about Iraq, then that would be different. Canada had a choice of putting boots on the ground and they chose not too. I can respect that.
 
It doesn't matter, they went to war they have to face the consequences.
 
Al-Jassas
Yes, we went to war. We did our part for NATO. We were strong enough at the time to aid the Afghan leader when he wanted it. If we were not strong enough, we wouldn't had done our part. Just remember Al Jassas, the Afghan leader "REQUESTED" aid from the UN. Seriously man! Stop it and blame the Afghan war on us! blame the Taliban! Wink Is it wrong to aid an ally in a war? NATO sent forces to try and suppress the terrorist and other rogue groups.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2010 at 15:23
I think Afghanistan is outside of scope here and is diluting the conversation too much.  Tamils aren't Afghans, for starters.
"There was glory in pissing, Corabb decided as he watched the stream curve out and make that familiar but unique sound as it hit the ground." So true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Madgod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2010 at 16:49
I just had to get it out Zagros, now the Tamil ship has arrived in Canada and it is stirring up allot of bullsh**t. It is not that we don't like them, the Canadian people just can't tolerate accepting refugees anymore. We are on our breaking point. We have an election coming up soon and PM Harper had done his two terms and damage to Canada and the world.  Steven Harper is very unpopular and if he didn't have any bodyguards, somebody would had killed him long ago.
WE ARE CANADIEN, I AM CANADIEN, EH?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2010 at 17:57
Originally posted by The Madgod The Madgod wrote:

Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:


Canada is a part in the war of Afghanistan and should therefore accept part of the 8 million refugees, they did choose to go to a war which they had absolutely no business in in the 1st place.


Hello Al Jassas.

That is Canada's choice too make that no one else can make for them. Besides Canada did not have a choice over Afghanistan. They went in as a part of Nato, not as some part of a weird design  that props up the US imperial conspiracy theory. Now if we were talking about Iraq, then that would be different. Canada had a choice of putting boots on the ground and they chose not too. I can respect that.
 
It doesn't matter, they went to war they have to face the consequences.
 
Al-Jassas
Yes, we went to war. We did our part for NATO. We were strong enough at the time to aid the Afghan leader when he wanted it. If we were not strong enough, we wouldn't had done our part. Just remember Al Jassas, the Afghan leader "REQUESTED" aid from the UN. Seriously man! Stop it and blame the Afghan war on us! blame the Taliban! Wink Is it wrong to aid an ally in a war? NATO sent forces to try and suppress the terrorist and other rogue groups.
 
Last time I checked the Taliban were internationally recognised as defacto rulers of Afghanistan with several countries recognising them. The US decided to invade them in retaliation for 9/11. After successfully removing the Taliban they put on the country a puppet goverment and a puppet leader who they helped forge elections, intimidate people and run the 2nd most corrupt country in the world (Iraq is of course No. 1).
 
In all this Canada was an integral part of the process and thus directly responsible for the misery of the Afghan people and has to pay or receive some of them as refugees.
 
As for Canada and Nato obligations, Canada was not obliged to give combat troops or even send them to Afghanistan in the first place since Canada already complied in opening their air space to the US and patrolled American air space. They however did actively participate in the war and thus are responsible for its outcome.
 
Al-Jassas
 
 
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