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20th Century Population Transfers

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Al Jassas View Drop Down
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    Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 18:05
One of the saddest episodes  of the 20th century in my opinion were the mass population transfer movements that occured after WWI and WWII.
 
During the years between 1921 and 1950 tens of millions of people were uprooted from their homelands, people and cultures who have been living there for upto 5000 years and sent across the border because they lived on the wrong side. What is interesting is that the decision to mass deport those people by conjured up by politicians who were detached from reality and in some cases had no business in doing what they did and all was done in the name of keeping peace.
 
The largest of these were the Greco-Turkish exchange affecting 2.5 milion, the Ukrainian-Polish exchange affecting 2 million, the German deportation affecting some 15 million people and finally the subcontinent exchange affecting 10 million people.
 
So were these exchanges justifiable?
 
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Parnell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 18:45
Where they justifiable? Certainly postwar Europe was more ethnically homogenous in traditionally troubled regions, which aided national stability - in both eastern and western European states. In that sense they are certainly justified, as they were a source of conflict for centuries.

Clearly they were immoral, but in the context of the worst war the world has ever seen it was probably the easiest time to get away with doing it. (Not speaking for the Grecian-Turkish exchanges, of course)

Ireland to an extent experienced this as well following 1922 - despite official policy to the contrary (Our first government was eager to retain the aristocratic classes) the Protestant community in southern Ireland declined by 25% from 1911 levels by 1926. (Compared to a Catholic decline of 4%)


Edited by Parnell - 25 Aug 2010 at 18:46
http://xkcd.com/15/



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 18:50
The evils of nationalist ideology (in its various ramifications) must perforce be a product of politics, Al Jassas, once the ethos of loyalty transfers from the realm of personal allegiances to that of group identity. Not that this particular game is far from afoot at this very moment. The topic is more than relevant, particularly within the thematics of this forum: Empires. This latter recognizes diversity with the only consideration being personal loyalty. In contrast, the nation-state eschews any and all loyalties divorced from group identity. However, not in all instances can the blame be assigned wholely to politicians. Yes, some are perfectly capable of exploiting the situation but is such not inherent to the nature of politics, specially in the face of group of "group" insecurity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2010 at 00:34
One of the more forgotten incidents is the desruction of Prussia. When the Russians entered (east) Prussia in WW2 and exacted revenge on the German population killing or driving it all to modern Germany. A 800 year old culture and kingdom ceased to exist in a month.

Edited by Omar al Hashim - 26 Aug 2010 at 00:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2010 at 11:19
Large scale population transfers also occurred within the USSR, notably during the reign of Stalin.
Entire nationalities such as the Chechens and Crimean Tatars were deported to Central Asia, european Russians were resettled in Siberia and Kazakhstan, Siberian bandits were deported to Moldavia; the Karelian Finns, Poles, Volga Germans, Kalmyks, Ingush etc also suffered deportations.
Although many of the deportees returned during the era of Khrushchev, others stayed permanently in their new homes.
An estimated 1-2 million deportees died en route.

Here is a summary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union
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drgonzaga View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2010 at 02:56
Intersitingly, one might say that "Prussia" was destroyed long before World War II and had been little more than a geographic convenience after the Thirty Years War. The actual ancient Balts that had occupied the region passed into the thralldom of the Teutonic Knights in the 13th century and subsequently came under Polish suzerainty after 1466. When title to East Prussia passed to Brandenburg in 1618, one can then trace the political convenience of the name to a dynastic regime that had no ethnic or historical connection to the original "Prussians". Thus, Omar, I am at a loss to identify the "800 year old culture" you lament. Are you referring to the exploitative landlords affectionately known as junkers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2010 at 11:22
I think population transfers in  Balkans were absolutely necessary after establishment of national states independent from Ottoman Empire like Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia etc. Otherwise, there still would be lot more ethnic conflicts there. Look at one of the ethic maps of Balkans in late 19th century:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Balkans-ethnic_%281877%29.jpg

How would you draw state borders without population exchanges.
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Al Jassas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 00:31
Well it worked in the Balkans alright, just look how many wars happened since then.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 13:14
I remember nearly sixty years ago a the height of the Cyprus troubles figuring out that a solution to tha area's problems might be to move the Greek Cypriots to Greece, the Turkish Cypriots back to Turkey, and the Israelis to Cyprus, leaving the Palestinians in Palestine.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 14:04
"Population exchanges"! Speak of sanitized euphemisms that seeks to mask the more discomforting perpspectives on Man as Savage brute! Where is Carch in this discussion so that we might have an "anthropological" perspective?Wink
 
From my end, I have always been fascinated by the label "ethnic" conflicts with respect to the Balkans! Just which ethne are we detailing since when you get right down to it DNA will underscore just how foolish such a pretension really is and the label only serves to obscure more bitter political realities.
 
How many goodly creatures are there here!
How beauteous mankind is! O brave new world 
That has such people in't!
 
The Tempest. Act V
 
Yet at the end the needed epilogue:
 
Now my charms are all o'erthrown,
And what strength I have's mine own,
Which is most faint: now, 'tis true,
I must be here confined by you,
Or sent to Naples. Let me not,
Since I have my dukedom got
And pardon'd the deceiver, dwell
In this bare island by your spell;
But release me from my bands
With the help of your good hands:
Gentle breath of yours my sails
Must fill, or else my project fails,
Which was to please. Now I want
Spirits to enforce, art to enchant,
And my ending is despair,
Unless I be relieved by prayer,
Which pierces so that it assaults
Mercy itself and frees all faults.
As you from crimes would pardon'd be,
Let your indulgence set me free
.


Edited by drgonzaga - 29 Aug 2010 at 14:05
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Parnell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 14:42
We should really have a 'scratching head' emoticon for when Dr.G makes these kinds of posts. Here is the nearest equivilent, just for you doc! Confused
http://xkcd.com/15/



Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. ~George Bernard Shaw
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 16:41
Doth not the bard soothe, ye varlet?
Hark!What manner of beast goes there
if not Ariel as Caliban, and none would dare
the innocence of Miranda!
 
Try that one out and if still too dense, prithee, get the hence and pell mell to Trinity!Wink
Honi soit qui mal y pense
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 17:33
Let me add... Stern Smile
FΑΝΑΚΤΟΥ ΜΙΔΑ ΓΟΝΟΣ
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