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25 years after the two blocks

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fantasus View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 Nov 2014 at 10:35
Now about 25 years have gone after the two-blocks system finally ended. How is those events looked upon today? Are the divisions in some sense still deep or are they more a relic from the past?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2014 at 12:06
Deeply shocking at the time but I suspect many of us outside the USA have largely forgotten it. I recall a news report about afghanistan where afghans were shown pictures of the event in order to educate them why terrorism was a bad thing. They simply shrugged and said "But that's just a tower on fire" - they just couldn't grasp the significance. Of course there was those episodes of celebration when the attack was reported in the middel east, and whilst the publicity silenced such views quite quickly, I doubt those same people changed their minds then or now.

The last time the subject came up in any discussion I heard was a few years ago. A forklifter on the same training course as me voiced the opinion that it was an American Black Op, blaming the CIA, spouting all kinds of conspiracy theory. We had quite an argument over it.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2014 at 13:52
The OP was not about the destruction of the two towers of WTC,that happened 13 years ago, but the end of the "eastern" block (Is that word not used in english for the Soviet and its allies?)25 years ago.
But Iremember well the twin towers too.


Edited by fantasus - 02 Nov 2014 at 13:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Alburz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2014 at 15:58
I was a kid when Soviet Union collapsed the only thing I remember was the influx of Russian people in our town. Whatever I know is from news, movies, articles and books that I read ever since. I guess the idea is still alive in shape of sparks. After Russian/Georgian war and Ukrainian conflict the old bear is coming back from a long hibernation. China is flexing muscle in south china sea and its surrounding. In few coming years we will have the game back in with a new setting. 

If you look at the development since 25 years ago, a lot have changed.  Russia is not a communist regime anymore, but it changed to an oligarchy or perhaps dictatorship with nationalistic tendency. It has turned from a super power to a gas and oil exporter (basically a gas station) but it has maintained its old arsenal.

look at the eastern Europe and you see nothing much has changed. Eastern Europe is still struggling. Romania, Hungary, Moldavia, Albania, and Slovakia has not changed a lot. Poland and  Czech Republic benefit from their proximity to Germany and German investments. Yugoslavia has disintegrated to seven smaller entities. Only Slovenia and Croatia are doing well economically. Old Baltic republics of Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia are enjoying their independence without Russian disturbance. Belarus is still in communist style dictatorship, isolated and poor. Ukraine is already on the news so it needs no more explanation.

Caucasus: Georgia has lost two parts of its territory, South Ossetia and Abkhazia. It is struggling economically but it is better compared to many eastern European countries. It has western investment and it has turned to a transit state between Azerbaijan and Turkey. Armenia is a land lock state suffering from blockade from Turkey and Azeribaijan. It is still at war with Azerbaijan over Nagorno Karabakh region. Armenia is among the poorest former soviet republics. Azerbaijan is a booming economy thanks to its oil and gas industry, but it is under grasp of Aliyev family and suffers from wide spread corruption that can be seen in all former soviet republics.

Central Asia: Kazakhstan (land of Borat Sagdiev Wink) is doing very well as oil and gas exporter but it has a large Russian minority and concerns about of greedy Russian expansionists may come one day. Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan are both run by dictators and doing well as gas and oil exporters. Turkmenistan is not far from North Korea in case of how the country is ruled by iron fist of a brutal dictator. Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan are both poor with no gas or oil resources but they have water resources that are vital to the region. Tajikistan is under dictatorship and Kyrgyzstan under rotational dictatorship with a chaotic political arena.

Far East Asia: North Korea has not changed. People are still starving while the great leader is playing with its toys. An absolute hereditary dictatorship  that treats its citizen brutally.
Vietnam: It is still communist but it is moving forward rapidly to join the Asian tiger economies. There is a hope here among Vietnamese folk coming abroad for study.
China: it has changed from absolute communism toward Chinese nationalism. Day by day it is moving more toward capitalism. It has taken giant steps in world economy and can surpass US in few years. If there is any challenge or revival of old Eastern block it will start from here since it has the power and resources.


Edited by Alburz - 02 Nov 2014 at 16:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eetion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2014 at 16:09
nice summary Alburz
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2014 at 22:24
Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

Now about 25 years have gone after the two-blocks system finally ended. How is those events looked upon today? Are the divisions in some sense still deep or are they more a relic from the past?


What are you talking about?
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2014 at 02:10
Sadly, as the historian Marguerite Macmillan would have put it, we are still on the "march of folly", meaning, the adolescent posturings, xenophobia, brinkmanship, and fear based relationships among nations are still very much alive, but they have just morphed into different forms. 

Russia and China still see themselves, in large measure, as being against us- the west. Communist ideology has been replaced by nationalist rhetoric, but the essentials are the same.

China, although insisting their rise to prominence is peaceful and intelligent, is now flexing its muscles in the South China Sea, for no apparent good reason other than to stoke nationalistic hubris. We hardly need mention Moscow's recent adventures in nationalist chauvinism. 

It's a little depressing to think that in 2014, we still haven't  left tribalism behind. I think I'll have another brandy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2014 at 02:11
Originally posted by Alburz Alburz wrote:

I was a kid when Soviet Union collapsed the only thing I remember was the influx of Russian people in our town. Whatever I know is from news, movies, articles and books that I read ever since. I guess the idea is still alive in shape of sparks. After Russian/Georgian war and Ukrainian conflict the old bear is coming back from a long hibernation. China is flexing muscle in south china sea and its surrounding. In few coming years we will have the game back in with a new setting. 

If you look at the development since 25 years ago, a lot have changed.  Russia is not a communist regime anymore, but it changed to an oligarchy or perhaps dictatorship with nationalistic tendency. It has turned from a super power to a gas and oil exporter (basically a gas station) but it has maintained its old arsenal.

look at the eastern Europe and you see nothing much has changed. Eastern Europe is still struggling. Romania, Hungary, Moldavia, Albania, and Slovakia has not changed a lot. Poland and  Czech Republic benefit from their proximity to Germany and German investments. Yugoslavia has disintegrated to seven smaller entities. Only Slovenia and Croatia are doing well economically. Old Baltic republics of Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia are enjoying their independence without Russian disturbance. Belarus is still in communist style dictatorship, isolated and poor. Ukraine is already on the news so it needs no more explanation.

Caucasus: Georgia has lost two parts of its territory, South Ossetia and Abkhazia. It is struggling economically but it is better compared to many eastern European countries. It has western investment and it has turned to a transit state between Azerbaijan and Turkey. Armenia is a land lock state suffering from blockade from Turkey and Azeribaijan. It is still at war with Azerbaijan over Nagorno Karabakh region. Armenia is among the poorest former soviet republics. Azerbaijan is a booming economy thanks to its oil and gas industry, but it is under grasp of Aliyev family and suffers from wide spread corruption that can be seen in all former soviet republics.

Central Asia: Kazakhstan (land of Borat Sagdiev Wink) is doing very well as oil and gas exporter but it has a large Russian minority and concerns about of greedy Russian expansionists may come one day. Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan are both run by dictators and doing well as gas and oil exporters. Turkmenistan is not far from North Korea in case of how the country is ruled by iron fist of a brutal dictator. Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan are both poor with no gas or oil resources but they have water resources that are vital to the region. Tajikistan is under dictatorship and Kyrgyzstan under rotational dictatorship with a chaotic political arena.

Far East Asia: North Korea has not changed. People are still starving while the great leader is playing with its toys. An absolute hereditary dictatorship  that treats its citizen brutally.
Vietnam: It is still communist but it is moving forward rapidly to join the Asian tiger economies. There is a hope here among Vietnamese folk coming abroad for study.
China: it has changed from absolute communism toward Chinese nationalism. Day by day it is moving more toward capitalism. It has taken giant steps in world economy and can surpass US in few years. If there is any challenge or revival of old Eastern block it will start from here since it has the power and resources.

Thanks. Very good post.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2014 at 12:01
Aha. You wrote 'blocks' instead of 'blocs'. Okay, my bad :(
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2014 at 12:20
Originally posted by caldrail caldrail wrote:

Aha. You wrote 'blocks' instead of 'blocs'. Okay, my bad :(
A mistake by me, I see. Sorry. But at least the time is correct: The year 1989 was when the Soviet Bloc fell (not least november). 2001 - 13 year before I write this, the planes hit theTwin Towers. 
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