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60's Music

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 02:17
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 02:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 02:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 02:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 02:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 02:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 06:07
I see, another quiet day at work.    Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018 at 05:14
I had a hankering for Hippies.
The Richie Havens viddy is my favorite Woodstock performance. Joan Baez had great chemistry with Bob Dylan. John Lennon wrote the song "Norwegian Wood" about Joan. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2018 at 21:54
I feel sorry for the locals of 'Woodstock.'  Like a herd of locusts, the dirty hippies descended upon Woodstock.  I am not sure tearing up the place is exactly peaceful, albeit, I admit it was like an accident waiting to happen, which surprise! didn't happen.  Woodstock's success breeded other attempts, like Altamont, which were not so successful.

But, I do like the performances at Woodstock, they're authentic for the time, I just don't like the pseudo-nostalgia that worships it.  (husband talking to kids: "and when I was at woodstock everybody got a long."  Wife:  "who are you kidding? you weren't at Woodstock!"  Husband: "well, I could have been!"  (paraphrased from a Doonesbury cartoon).  It was the Woodstock generation where everyone "could have been" at woodstock (but wasn't).  

But I am grateful to watch the film, that way I don't have to smell the the 3+ day body odor of the hippies (except maybe the skinny dippers).

But, thank you Vanuatu for your selection of videos.  I didn't know that there was large connection between Baez and Dylan, besides their folk music background.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 14:55
The Hippies could not have known that the CIA wanted them on LSD. I'm sure they felt a great rebellion taking place against the MAN. Which is why so many people want in on the collective experience even if they weren't at the event, right?

There is a nice quality to the music, very spiritual at times. Yet utterly
unappealing to imagine using the bathroom or eating anything. Must be getting old 'cause that's a deal breaker for me.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2018 at 02:08
I don't think it was the CIA that got the hippies on acid, nor did they get Cary Grant and his wife to experiment with it (under the care of a psychologist).

All those who rebelled against everybody over 30, are now over 30 (or dead).  I think the rebellion was pretty easy for a lot, camped out in the University, or getting what was it? 5, 6, 7 deferments like President Donald "Duck" did.

One thing I do not like, is that there was no President and will be no President who had combat experience from Vietnam.  
But, I do like music of the 1960s in general, and artists should wear their emotions on their sleeves, but they also shouldn't take themselves too seriously.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2018 at 02:45
Quote One thing I do not like, is that there was no President and will be no President who had combat experience from Vietnam. 

And there's not likely to be either. But, Afghanistan is still likely to be active for many years to come.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2018 at 03:41
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote <span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">One thing I do not like, is that there was no President and will be no President who had combat experience from Vietnam. 
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">And there's not likely to be either. But, Afghanistan is still likely to be active for many years to come.</span>


Unfortunately soldiers came back to an ungrateful public spewing venom and misdirected rage, and our government discouraged treatment of addiction for veterans as only bureaucratic red tape can. If the guy wasn't already shattered enough after combat or worse, coming home was no peace at all. John Kerry was 'brave' enough to tell congress about killing civilians and the veterans of that war were disgraced but in fact they followed orders. It looks self aggrandizing when you see the film of John Kerry help the US government pin the pointless killing on the rank and file.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2018 at 04:25
Looking back at most of the music created during this period, there's not a lot to criticise about peace, love and understanding.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2018 at 20:58
But if you think that peace is a common goal,
that goes to show how little you know.

Peace, Love and Harmony,
Peace, love and harmony,
very nice, very nice, very nice.
but maybe in the next world.

(Death of a Disco Dancer, by the Smiths)

There is a film clip at Berkeley where people are singing, "We shall overcome." and the song metamorphosizes into Yellow Submarine (naturally, it is not staged), that is kind of what happened in the 60s.  From earnest, protest songs to silliness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2018 at 13:27
Quote  
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
John Lennon
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2018 at 18:30
Is that "all" you are saying??

Now Jefferson Airplane, "don't you want somebody to love?"

I can agree with that.  Simple, direct, pure, 60s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2018 at 13:57
Culture is shaping music as music is shaping culture. I do think that US government/CIA was responsible for introducing LSD to the world at large.

fransicosan, do you deny that President Ford paid damages to people who were dosed by the CIA? That information has been declassified and multiple news organizations have covered the story.


Why did protests against the war in Vietnam end? The public opinion remained fimrly against the war and then against the soldiers as John Kerry positioned himself for government job. He publicly assured the country that these rogue soldiers were the problem in Vietnam. Don't you find it absurd?


The music is great toyomotor all the more likely the result of altered states of consciousness. The Laurel Canyon California connection was the underground for distribution among so called hippies. Of course it didn't start with young people but with fringe element groups like performance artists. And rebellion was very popular with Hollywood types who invariably mix with musicians. Is there another explanation for how LSD went from being on a shelf in a lab to being common as horse poo?   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2018 at 03:32
Having lived through that era, and being very pro military, I nevertheless disagreed with our involvement in Viet Nam, I saw it as an extension of the McCarthyist "Reds Under The Bed" syndrome.

Music wise, the children of yesterdays beatniks became hippies. I'm not saying it was as simple as that, but the youth of the 60's found that they could rebel against the establishment and they did.

Along with rebelliousness came a sense of exploration, young people found themselves unfettered to the rules of the past, "Sex, Drugs'n Rock'n Roll" was the meme. Marijuana was good, mushrooms were better, and hell man, acid was the way to go. But it didn't stop there. Heroin and cocaine had been around for decades, and some young people decided to try them out, only to become entangled in a web from which they would never escape.

Acid Rock and songs like "Miss Heroin" encouraged people to experiment and they did not only with drugs but with music, and with a high degree of success.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Windemere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2018 at 20:22
True, none of our Presidents ever served in Vietnam. But there were unsuccessful presidential contenders (John McCain and John Kerry) who served there. After Kerry returned, he was opposed to the war, and became a leader of the group "Vietnam Veterans Against the War". I think it's important to keep in mind that when Kerry, in some of his early speeches back in those days referred to atrocities committed during the war by American troops, he wasn't referring to rank-and-file American troops. Sometimes his remarks have been taken out of context by political opponents. Atrocities against civilians happen in all wars, including Vietnam.

Edited by Windemere - 29 May 2018 at 20:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2018 at 17:21
Hi Windemere, having seen Kerry's speech to congress multiple times I apprehend John Kerry's meaning as many others do, as pinning the unlawful war time killing of Vietnamese civilians on the rank and file. Atrocities in Vietnam or any war are the responsibility of the aggressor and no one proved to me that our government wasn't the aggressor. Shameless for Kerry to generate more ill will in the country at the time and consistent with his later career.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2018 at 03:26
So, who were the rebels, the ones advocating, "sex, drugs and rock and roll" or the young, Buckleyite conservatives?  Who's in the herd, and who is paddling upstream?  David Horowitz was a radical (Marxist radical), who became disenchanted with the radicals and became a Neo-Con.  He was bothered how the protesters became out of sight, out of mind after the American military withdrew from Vietnam.  He felt that radicals were not so much concerned about the killing, as they were getting on their soapbox and getting high and mighty (and just high).  I mean, if you look at what happened after the American phase of the war, the invasion of the South, the boat people, the Khmer Rouge, and the aggression of war of Vietnam in Laos, and Cambodia, and against China.  Where was the complaints of the left about those things???  Where did the protesters in the streets go?  Like I said, out of sight, out of mind.  If they truly were concerned with making the world a better place, what about Cambodia and Pol Pot??

I like the music of the '60s, its wonderful, but all the sanctimonious posturing....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2018 at 14:48
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

So, who were the rebels, the ones advocating, "sex, drugs and rock and roll" or the young, Buckleyite conservatives?  Who's in the herd, and who is paddling upstream?  David Horowitz was a radical (Marxist radical), who became disenchanted with the radicals and became a Neo-Con.  He was bothered how the protesters became out of sight, out of mind after the American military withdrew from Vietnam.  He felt that radicals were not so much concerned about the killing, as they were getting on their soapbox and getting high and mighty (and just high).  I mean, if you look at what happened after the American phase of the war, the invasion of the South, the boat people, the Khmer Rouge, and the aggression of war of Vietnam in Laos, and Cambodia, and against China.  Where was the complaints of the left about those things???  Where did the protesters in the streets go?  Like I said, out of sight, out of mind.  If they truly were concerned with making the world a better place, what about Cambodia and Pol Pot??

I like the music of the '60s, its wonderful, but all the sanctimonious posturing....


John Kerry "happened" to the leftist hippies. Let's just ostracize and demonize the rank and file, Kerry told special senate committee about the heinous abuse he witnessed by his fellow soldiers, after 3 whole months of sacrifice and his rescue by one of those psycho killer US soldiers. Then Kerry wants to talk presidential election when he has the senates attention? DISGUSTING and CONSISTENT!


In addition to the treacherous climbing of John Kerry, there was drug abuse, lots of STD's and petty crime. Hippies were happy to blame veterans of the war as they firmly attached themselves to the government teat. I know a couple who were at Haight Ashbury in 1968 and were it not for the government dole and church charity they would have starved bc they were taking any kind of drug offered to them and committed petty crimes to fuel drug habit. This is well documented throughout the hippie 'movement'. Same kind of fade in passion already obvious in the school shooting teen protest- media spawn.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2018 at 01:27
Wasn't it John Kerry who went to Ortega's Nicaragua in the 1980s?  Or am I thinking about someone else?  If it was him, he tried to conduct foreign policy as a mere congressman.  The Sandinistas welcomed him, but they knew he was useless in that regard, and Reagan was not going to be affected by his attempt.  I had a friend who studied international relations and he thought that Kerry had weighed in on every international issue for the last 20 years (30 now) and had never been right about them.

My mistake, it was Biden who has weighed in on every international issue, and never been right, according to a friend.

There is footage of Berkeley with the camera going around in the crowd, and people singing, "We Shall Overcome."  Think of the tune, now think of it as 'metamorphosing' into "Yellow Submarine."  That is what happened on the footage, no tricks, just one song flowing into the other.  Seriousness, earnestness, great moral intentions into silliness, triviality.  To me that is what seems to have happened in the '60s.


Edited by franciscosan - 05 Jun 2018 at 23:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Windemere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2018 at 22:12
Thanks for all the previous posts. I remember Kerry's Winter Soldier speech from April 71, before Congress, pretty well. Kerry was a lieutenant in the Army Reserve when he gave the speech, and was dressed in fatigues and combat boots. This was quite a change from the usual senior military officers, who'd addressed Congress in their dress uniforms. He was also a member of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, an anti-war group. Listening to the speech, I didn't catch anything negative about veterans. He was criticizing the American government's military actions in Vietnam, and he referred to atrocities that American troops had committed against Vietnamese civilians. But he didn't blame or criticise the troops themselves. He blamed the governmental leadership in Washington D.C. (some of whom he referred to by name). He felt the War was useless and unnecessary.

 Kerry later became a conventional Democratic senator, but he remained supportive of veterans. I remember what the V.A. medical clinic was like in my homecity in those days. It was a very rigid, authoritarian organization, similar to the military itself. The administration there was more concerned with enforcing their rules and regulations than with providing health-care to veterans. There was an awful lot of redtape. A lot of Vietnam-era veterans just became frustrated and disillusioned with it, and stopped going to it altogether. (Now there were many good employees working there, then and now. I'm not criticizing the rank-and-file employees, who were sincere and dedicated. But the administration there, at that time, wasn't helpful or supportive of veterans). In the Nineties, after the first Iraq War, there was a second wave of combat veterans, and they faced the same problems with the V.A.  as the Vietnam vets did.

Kerry helped to establish and fund an alternative Vets' Centre, away from the regular V.A. Medical Clinic, that veterans with problems could go to, receive some help and counselling, and some basic medical care. It wasn't equipped to be able to provide specialized medical-care, but the counsellors there were supportive of veterans, and tried to convince them to return to the regular V.A. for medical-care, helped as much as they could to get them through the redtape, and kept telling them "not to give up" and "bear with it" when they ran into problems with the V.A. I know that this is just talk rather than anything else, but it really did help out some vets (buth Vietnam and Gulf War vets), and convince them to go back to the V.A. to get some medical care. Kerry himself visited the Centre several times, and spoke with veterans who were there ( I was present myself during one of his visits). These visits weren't publicity opportunities for him. They weren't announced in advance, and weren't always publicized. Kerry drove across the state himself to come, he wasn't chauffered.  This alternative Vets' Centre lasted for about 10 years or so, until it was eventually discontinued. But by that time (about 2007 or so) the regular V.A. had become more welcoming toward veterans, and was trying to cope with things.

World War II veterans returned home to the prosperity and expanding economy of the Fifties. Vietnam veterans returned home to minimum-wage jobs and layoffs, as have the Gulf War vets). I live in a medium-sized, working-class city that's been in decline ever since the Sixties, and a significant number of late-sixties and early-seventies hippies were themselves Vietnam vets. Most of them never joined the American Legion or the V.F.W. They had ambiguous feelings about their service, a mixture of pride and camaraderie, but also feelings of guilt over some of the things they'd seen and done over there. War maybe seems glorious and honorable at times, but it's also brutal and ruthless. There's no easy answers. I think that this was the message that Kerry was trying to convey in the Winter Soldier speech.

My own feelings are that Kerry, after he entered the Senate, ought to have been more concerned with the financial problems that his constituents were undergoing (minimum-wage jobs, layoffs, no health-insurance or access to healthcare,  no way to buy a house or support a family,etc.). But his first love was always foreign-policy and diplomacy, and that's what he focused on.

I also like the Sixties protest songs that have been mentioned in this thread. There was also during this time one song "Ballad of the Green Berets" that was patriotic rather than antiwar. But even that song more supported the Green Berets themselves rather than the government.

It's true that after the Vietnam War ended, the hippies soon faded away, except for maybe a few oldtimers who are still around in their sixties and seventies. But the protest songs of the Sixties morphed into Bruce Springsteen's songs of the Seventies and Eighties, which chronicled the passing away of the American Dream, and were just as cynical about the government as the protest songs were.


Edited by Windemere - 04 Jun 2018 at 01:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2018 at 21:26
I suggest watching the movie, "Best Year of Our Lives," for an impression of WWII veterans coming home,  won the Academy Award for 1946.  Point is, it wasn't all hunky dory coming home in WWII.  I am not sure how Korea was.  

But I really enjoy the Woodstock movie, which is very authentic '60s.  Even the mistakes are authentic.  In trying to recreate the time, there is always something about the recreation that is not authentic.  The imitation itself is not perfect, if for no other reason, it is an imitation.  One can digitally mix and remaster a recording, but even then, especially then it would not be authentic, but a simulacra.  A simulation is an imitation of something that exists.  An simulacra is an imitation of something that does not exist.  Remaster it, and take out the mistakes, the feedback, the banter, and the result would be less, not more of the essence of such a performance.

Scorcesei worked on the Woodstock movie.  In watching it, I feel really sorry for the people of Woodstock, they did not deserve the hordes of hippies descending on their town.  Woodstock was an accident waiting to happen, an ultimately it did not happen, then, it happened later at Altamont.  (Gimme Shelter).   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 02:09
The hopes and fears of a generation were reflected in their music, which in the main was anti-war, peace and love. Not the other way around.

For perhaps the first time in generations, young people became more politically aware and didn't like what they saw. They didn't show their dislike in violence, but in peaceful protest.

But don't forget, the 1960's wasn't the period of the hippy subculture alone. Charlie Pride, Glen Campbell, Johnny Cash and Roy Orbison, Bruce Springsteen,for example, were also up their with their music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Windemere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 17:34
If I remember rightly, Bruce Springsteen's Born To Run came out in the mid-seventies. Glen Campbell's Galveston wasn't a protest song, but it reflected the sixties feelings of apprehension about the war.
As well as political awareness on the part of young people, there was also the age 18 draft for young men during the Vietnam War, which I think contributed to the opposition to the war.

I actually have mixed feelings about the elimination of the draft. It's understandable that young Americans were opposed to being drafted into the military, and sent to fight in an overseas war in Southeast Asia that they felt was unnecessary. Moreover, the draft was administered unfairly, and affluent young men got all sorts of deferments for all sorts of reasons, while the poor were automatically drafted. I myself like the idea of a citizen military better than the professional military that we now have. I like the idea of the military originating in the citizenry, rather than composing a seperate professional military force. But the present professional military is better trained. I'd actually like to see 2 years of in-country stateside military training made compulsory again for all citizens upon reaching age 21, or perhaps some sort of alternate national service for those who wished it. But only those professional troops who chose to remain in the service would be sent for duty overseas. 


Edited by Windemere - 06 Jun 2018 at 17:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 15:26
Originally posted by Windemere Windemere wrote:

Thanks for all the previous posts. I remember Kerry's Winter Soldier speech from April 71, before Congress, pretty well. Kerry was a lieutenant in the Army Reserve when he gave the speech, and was dressed in fatigues and combat boots. This was quite a change from the usual senior military officers, who'd addressed Congress in their dress uniforms. He was also a member of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, an anti-war group. Listening to the speech, I didn't catch anything negative about veterans. He was criticizing the American government's military actions in Vietnam, and he referred to atrocities that American troops had committed against Vietnamese civilians. But he didn't blame or criticise the troops themselves. He blamed the governmental leadership in Washington D.C. (some of whom he referred to by name). He felt the War was useless and unnecessary.


In detailing the rape and destruction Kerry does nothing to expedite the end of the war, not if you accept McNamara's memoirs and recorded conversations with Nixon. The war ended when Nixon can't find a political upside to continuing the war. Kerry does create even more hostility in the US and some of the exploits of Vietnam Veterans Against the War were used to salt the wounds of POW's as written by John McCain. Jane Fonda bankrolled Kerry's VVAW and turned it into performance art, how did this help civilians in US?

"personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam."-John Kerry 1971

Originally posted by Windemere Windemere wrote:

 Kerry later became a conventional Democratic senator, but he remained supportive of veterans. I remember what the V.A. medical clinic was like in my homecity in those days. It was a very rigid, authoritarian organization, similar to the military itself. The administration there was more concerned with enforcing their rules and regulations than with providing health-care to veterans. There was an awful lot of redtape. A lot of Vietnam-era veterans just became frustrated and disillusioned with it, and stopped going to it altogether. (Now there were many good employees working there, then and now. I'm not criticizing the rank-and-file employees, who were sincere and dedicated. But the administration there, at that time, wasn't helpful or supportive of veterans). In the Nineties, after the first Iraq War, there was a second wave of combat veterans, and they faced the same problems with the V.A.  as the Vietnam vets did.

Kerry helped to establish and fund an alternative Vets' Centre, away from the regular V.A. Medical Clinic, that veterans with problems could go to, receive some help and counselling, and some basic medical care. It wasn't equipped to be able to provide specialized medical-care, but the counsellors there were supportive of veterans, and tried to convince them to return to the regular V.A. for medical-care, helped as much as they could to get them through the redtape, and kept telling them "not to give up" and "bear with it" when they ran into problems with the V.A. I know that this is just talk rather than anything else, but it really did help out some vets (buth Vietnam and Gulf War vets), and convince them to go back to the V.A. to get some medical care. Kerry himself visited the Centre several times, and spoke with veterans who were there ( I was present myself during one of his visits). These visits weren't publicity opportunities for him. They weren't announced in advance, and weren't always publicized. Kerry drove across the state himself to come, he wasn't chauffered.  This alternative Vets' Centre lasted for about 10 years or so, until it was eventually discontinued. But by that time (about 2007 or so) the regular V.A. had become more welcoming toward veterans, and was trying to cope with things.

Kerry didn't contribute to these improvements by writing legislation.
I find that he co-opted a cause to further his ambitions. I think he acted as a communist when he opposed a UN plan in 1990 to end the war in Cambodia. And POW's were comfortably in Kerry's rear view mirror. After his senate committee determined in 1992 that there were no POW's in Vietnam, when Kerry personally flew to Vietnam with other senators to "look" for POWs (theater?) he was ready say that's a wrap. Kerry goes home and takes credit for getting Vietnam mud on his shoes. It was Soviet intelligence that revealed the existence/locations of hundreds American POW's 1992-93, oddly.



Originally posted by Windemere Windemere wrote:

World War II veterans returned home to the prosperity and expanding economy of the Fifties. Vietnam veterans returned home to minimum-wage jobs and layoffs, as have the Gulf War vets). I live in a medium-sized, working-class city that's been in decline ever since the Sixties, and a significant number of late-sixties and early-seventies hippies were themselves Vietnam vets. Most of them never joined the American Legion or the V.F.W. They had ambiguous feelings about their service, a mixture of pride and camaraderie, but also feelings of guilt over some of the things they'd seen and done over there. War maybe seems glorious and honorable at times, but it's also brutal and ruthless. There's no easy answers. I think that this was the message that Kerry was trying to convey in the Winter Soldier speech.

My own feelings are that Kerry, after he entered the Senate, ought to have been more concerned with the financial problems that his constituents were undergoing (minimum-wage jobs, layoffs, no health-insurance or access to healthcare,  no way to buy a house or support a family,etc.). But his first love was always foreign-policy and diplomacy, and that's what he focused on.

I also like the Sixties protest songs that have been mentioned in this thread. There was also during this time one song "Ballad of the Green Berets" that was patriotic rather than antiwar. But even that song more supported the Green Berets themselves rather than the government.

It's true that after the Vietnam War ended, the hippies soon faded away, except for maybe a few oldtimers who are still around in their sixties and seventies. But the protest songs of the Sixties morphed into Bruce Springsteen's songs of the Seventies and Eighties, which chronicled the passing away of the American Dream, and were just as cynical about the government as the protest songs were.





Couldn't AGREE MORE.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 02:00
We seem to have wandered off the path. 1960's music wasn't confined to "hippy" music and anti-war protest songs. There was a lot of other popular music out there-rock, country, folk and so on.

How about Chubby Checker, the Animals, the Beatles, Rolling Stones, and the list goes on, Glenn Campbell, Merle Haggard, Ray Charles and Johnny Cash. All had music well up in the charts of the time.
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