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A Mighty Vision

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caldrail View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2016 at 17:04
I don't see how reinvented pagan beliefs are atheist. That's a contradiction. Since all religions are ritual and mythos imposed on peoples desires for reassurance and communal spirit - literally none have any reality to them, no matter what they demand or suggest - and often represent an individuals control over society by manipulation, atheism is merely a rejection of anyone else's world-view that does not offer anything superior (essentially any atheist with a smug attitude about knowing better than the faithful is no different to a believer being smug that their faith will prevail)

Now that might sound odd since I have a form of spiritualist belief myself, but then many would assume I'm atheist. Or a devil worshipper mwuahahahahaaaaaaaa!!!!! Of course I'm not. It's all superstition and emotional control.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2016 at 02:48
"reinvented?" or invented?  Religion is not just a matter of inventing something that sounds good, or heavy, or light or however you want to characterize your invention.  I wouldn't consider a flim flam man preaching slavation (or salvation) for the sake of his own personal income or power to be "religious."  The Nazis were into Nietzsche's will to power, if they worshipped anything, it was power, perhaps cloaked in teutonic "religion," but in its core cynically atheistic and relativistic, except for the will to power.

Put it this way, you have a cult, is the cult leader really religious?  or is he opportunistically, cynically using the appearance of religion for the sake of his own power trip?  But, maybe you think that that is all there is to religion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2016 at 03:09
All religion is belief in some invisible being thought by believers to have immense powers. That some people will be taken in by the rhetoric of so-called spiritual leaders is an indication of the leaders charisma and powers of persuasion.

Show me something tangible and maybe I'll believe in it.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2016 at 06:04
Some forms of buddhism don't believe in a god or gods, probably the majority.  Do you doubt that there are intelligent people who are sincere in their beliefs.  Or is everybody a mark?

Maybe if you believed in something, I could show you something tangible;)  I am not interested in proving anything for you.  If you want to find out more, I am sure you can.  If you have a tradition, then great.
The theologian Paul Tillich roughly said that the desire to prove the existence of God is just as atheistic as the desire to disprove God's existence.  (that is not an exact quote, but you get the point.)  Point is, he felt the desire to prove God was as bad as the desire to disprove God.  If God is not a "thing" like every other thing, but is rather the grounding for things, including sentient beings, then how could you "prove" God the way you would prove that rabbits exist?  Do you want to come up with a definition of God and see if you can find something that matches? <grin> 
Or maybe God is like the title of this thread, a mighty vision that we only very imperfectly understand, even after 1000s of years, or especially because religions are measured in 100s if not the 1000s of years, something that "we" really don't well comprehend.  Those who (directly) have that vision are called prophets, something exceedingly rare.  But something that has existed at certain times in history, even if there are none around today, or none that I know of.  Then again, I believe in supervolcanoes and TZOs (neutron stars inside of red giants) even though I have never seen them.  Thank goodness, because when Yellowstone goes up, Denver will probably be too close.  I imagine that prophets also are fraught with danger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2016 at 16:57
Quote But, maybe you think that that is all there is to religion.

organised religion is an exercise in social conformity and control, either for communal continuity, societal morality, or merely to exploit the faithful. It has always been that way. Even with less organised religions there is a tendency to emphasise these traits, as shamans and witchdoctors often discover how much influence they have. Simple socities tend to suffer less from this - it is the presence of potential reward and profit that encourages human failings.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2016 at 00:54
I have a friend who says, "I don't believe in organized religion, I'm Orthodox (Christian)."  I have to agree, "my" Sunday school class is like herding cats.  Like here on the worldhistoria forum, people don't so much reply to what you say, as they respond to what you say.  People feel free to say that they don't agree with x, y or z, and you know, they may be advocating some traditional "heresy."  But nobody stones them, or forces them out, nor even usually comments on it.  A religion may be travelling in a certain "direction," but to call it organized is usually something else entirely:)  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2016 at 14:40
Organised religion is one supported by an official hierarchy, so I doubt your friend is being entirely objective, or is one of the large number that pay lip service to religion whilst not engaging in it. Many label themselves as belonging to one faction or another without active interest, or sometimes, even active empathy of conformity. If he didn't believe in orgainsed religion - why does he classify his beliefs as conformal to part of the organisation of Christianity?

Edited by caldrail - 29 Apr 2016 at 14:40
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2016 at 18:07
No, he wasn't entirely objective, but neither is anyone else.  He was being humorous, and I think his point was that Orthodoxy is a disorganized religion, not an unorganized religion.  "Organized" implies that there is someone who know and understands what's going on, someone in "control."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2016 at 11:44
Orthodoxy is a disorganised religion? Nonsense. Orthodoxy, by definition, described conformity, and conformity can only occur until a membership agrees or is coerced into adhering to a standard, which requires organisation. He might convincingly claim his views are relatively orthodox in nature, but the grammar is important. The word 'orthodoxy' implies organisation. Again, by definition, the use of the word 'religion' as opposed to the phrase 'religious beliefs' implies organisation too.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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