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A Pious Muslim does service to his faith

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Parnell View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 Jan 2010 at 10:06
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/04/danish-cartoonist-axe-attack

This (presumably) mentally ill man was inspired by the reckless doctrine of hatred which followed the publication of a cartoon four years ago. I don't hold him to account, I hold all of the Islamic religious leaders who protested so loudly, and so insanely, to the publication of a cartoon in a small, inoffensive European country. This is yet another example of how the stupid are influenced by manipulating barbarians in positions of influence within organised religion. This is not an anti-Islamic post, or a racist post, but a realistic one. The fundamental problems lay in eastern incomprehension to an individuals right to free speech, and their reaction was to inspire violence wherever their rhetoric of hatred extended. This is the natural conclusion of that doctrine.


Edited by Parnell - 05 Jan 2010 at 10:10
http://xkcd.com/15/



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2010 at 11:07
First, they came after Ahmed Salman Rushdie, then the West, then innocent Muslims themselves, then Mr. Kurt Westergarrd and then...

 Let's face it, if we aren't one of them or believe as they do down to a T, then we all are legitimate targets!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2010 at 16:57
Hello to you all
 
Talking about an "eastern" mentality towards free speech as oppose to a "western" one is as racist as calling people Negroes and demanding Jim Crow's laws. Actually I take that back, it is even more racist than that because a Jim Crow racist is plain in front of you, an Intellectual racist fools you with words like these.
 
Last time I checked "western" mentality Ireland punished blasphamy, Germany sends you to prison for just displaying a swastika, France sends you to prison for saying 5 999 999 people died in the Holocaust not the magic number of six mil or said that the events of 1915 are not genocide but massacres and wars and even in the pinnacle of free speech, Denmark, criticising the monarch or publishing blasphamy is punishable (Remember the dude who draw the cartoons, his jesus cartoons were censored because they were "offensive").
 
So don't give me the whiny teary speech on those horrible muslims who don't share our values because I can give you hundreds of examples in your dear human rights loving west where people where sent to prison (and some actually even died) for saying certain things and here are some examples:
 
Oh and by the way, according to your own theory, free speech doesn't come by piecemeal, so regardless of what these people said and how horrible, they still do have a right for free speech just like you and me.
 
Al-Jassas


Edited by Al Jassas - 05 Jan 2010 at 17:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2010 at 17:05
@ Al Jassas

Though i do agree with some of what you had said, especially how some western governments do tend to go overboard, i do think you might have read way too much into Parnell's post?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2010 at 00:25
If you want to play blame games on Islamist terror then I am afraid that you'll have to make a slightly deeper analysis than that before reaching a conclusion, Parnell.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2010 at 00:32
To equate the dysfunctional as emblematic of all others who share a cultural identity is wrong. Are we to call all Presbyterians murderers because of the Reverend Ian Pasley! Let's face it modernity has been provoking alienation for quite a long while...
 
Just an Irish example, Parnell, so you'd grasp what I am talking about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2010 at 02:41
The title was intentionally incendiary, and the content hyperbolic in order to demonstrate the lunacy of both this individual and the individuals who feel it is justified to kill one man over a cartoon. To make the logical connection that the entirety of Islam is at fault for this savagery is absurd, and is clearly not what I said.
http://xkcd.com/15/



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2010 at 03:02
There can of course be problems with free speach in several European countries, but still they are nothing compared with the worst of the muslim countries, as Sudan, Somalia, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan (at least when it was under Taliban rule) where not even the most basic human liberties exists.
And unfortunately ideas from those societies influence some muslims here in Europe too.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2010 at 05:13
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

There can of course be problems with free speach in several European countries, but still they are nothing compared with the worst of the muslim countries, as Sudan, Somalia, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan (at least when it was under Taliban rule) where not even the most basic human liberties exists.
And unfortunately ideas from those societies influence some muslims here in Europe too.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2010 at 11:03
DISCLAIMER: I'm taking Parnells bait, even though I know he was only baiting.
Originally posted by the Guardian the Guardian wrote:

At another hotel, while the couple were unloading luggage from their car, they came to the attention of two men and two women who were apparently of Middle Eastern origin.

"May you burn in hell!" one of the men shouted at Westergaard.

"Can we talk about it?" the cartoonist asked.

"May you burn in hell," the man repeated.

"Well, I guess we'll have to talk about it in hell, then," Westergaard finally said. When the police arrived five minutes later, the party of four was long gone.

Yep. Great free speech. Tell someone to go to hell and the police show up to arrest you.
Oh silly me, free speech only applies to white people doesn't it?

But then again...
Quote Ms Verco said the police charges included organising a riot, which she said the Danish police claim were stopped due to early police interference.

"They're charging me with organising things that never happened.

"I feel confused and frustrated and quite scared actually. I think it's a huge departure from what I understand to be any form of legal process."

Asked if there was an opportunity to present a counter-claim, she said "I certainly hope so.

"The evidence that they presented was so ridiculous, so poor and yet they were able to lock me up for three weeks."

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/breaking-news/aussie-climate-protester-natasha-verco-claims-innocence/story-e6frg13c-1225816173975

Maybe they're just straight hypocrites?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2010 at 14:58
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

DISCLAIMER: I'm taking Parnells bait, even though I know he was only baiting.
Originally posted by the Guardian the Guardian wrote:

At another hotel, while the couple were unloading luggage from their car, they came to the attention of two men and two women who were apparently of Middle Eastern origin.

"May you burn in hell!" one of the men shouted at Westergaard.

"Can we talk about it?" the cartoonist asked.

"May you burn in hell," the man repeated.

"Well, I guess we'll have to talk about it in hell, then," Westergaard finally said. When the police arrived five minutes later, the party of four was long gone.

Yep. Great free speech. Tell someone to go to hell and the police show up to arrest you.
Oh silly me, free speech only applies to white people doesn't it?



There had actually been several threats to Westergaards life before that incident which may have made him and the police a bit extra cautious. That is quite understandable.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2010 at 16:13
You never cease to amaze me, with missing the point... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2010 at 16:21
Not missing the point, just explaining why Westergaard and the police took the matter with the man who shouted at him so seriously.

Edited by Carcharodon - 06 Jan 2010 at 16:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2010 at 16:32
I was going to take the bait and post something anti-danish, but I can't do it. I'm only so good at being a prick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2010 at 17:58
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Not missing the point, just explaining why Westergaard and the police took the matter with the man who shouted at him so seriously.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2010 at 20:39
 
One may wonder a bit of those people complaining about "discrimination", "lack of repsect" etcetera in a case like this - and others.
Could it be that some of this complaining is rooted in lack of selfrespect?
Kids and minors have a tendency to whine and cry and rage every time the world does not behave excactly according to their wishes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2010 at 02:48
I really don't know that when the smart, educated, secular and modern part of the world (mostly refered to as West now adays) will recognize that blaming an entire community or group or followers of a religion for some action by some idiots from that group, won't solve the problem but will increase the gap and understanding.
 
The more Muslims in the world try to be sensible on this topic, the further the blames go and in case they reply to those racist hatreds towards them then they are either labeled a terrorist or an extremist.
I mean did a stupid man calling himself leader of muslims by the name of 0sama kill more than his other counterpart of the past Hitler?
But never I have seen such a racist attitude towards the Christians, no because at least we the backward people of the stone age Asians can understand that few people could not represent the entire community.
 
I don't really know that what does TOLERANCE really mean to the West (generally speaking not pinpointing a single country or group of people)? Since if what those people do and act is called TOLERANCE then at least I am proud to be called a non tolerant person.
 
Sorry for any kind of offense towards anyone's idea, as I was starting to get mad reading same topics again and again and had to burst my anger with words.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2010 at 03:00
Originally posted by Gharanai Gharanai wrote:

I really don't know that when the smart, educated, secular and modern part of the world (mostly refered to as West now adays) will recognize that blaming an entire community or group or followers of a religion for some action by some idiots from that group, won't solve the problem but will increase the gap and understanding.
 
The more Muslims in the world try to be sensible on this topic, the further the blames go and in case they reply to those racist hatreds towards them then they are either labeled a terrorist or an extremist.
I mean did a stupid man calling himself leader of muslims by the name of 0sama kill more than his other counterpart of the past Hitler?
But never I have seen such a racist attitude towards the Christians, no because at least we the backward people of the stone age Asians can understand that few people could not represent the entire community.
 
I don't really know that what does TOLERANCE really mean to the West (generally speaking not pinpointing a single country or group of people)? Since if what those people do and act is called TOLERANCE then at least I am proud to be called a non tolerant person.
 
Sorry for any kind of offense towards anyone's idea, as I was starting to get mad reading same topics again and again and had to burst my anger with words.


I didn't intend my post to be taken completely literally Gharani, as Omar points out I was baiting.
http://xkcd.com/15/



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2010 at 03:27
Excuse me here Parnell, but I just can't resist...may we call your retraction "The Confession of a Christian Soul"?Wink
 
Keep in mind that often an attempt to distinguish the extreme from the normal often brings unfortunate results such as when the Bush administration coined the term Islamofascists, which in essence was an effort to label the Osama bunch in terminology that underscored their aberration. It's a classic example of how too much intelligence can further stoke the fires of misunderstanding (pun far from coincidental)!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2010 at 07:58
Originally posted by Gharanai Gharanai wrote:

 
 
The more Muslims in the world try to be sensible on this topic, the further the blames go and in case they reply to those racist hatreds towards them then they are either labeled a terrorist or an extremist.
What are the  examples of sensible acts or words being labeled terrorist or extremist?
Originally posted by Gharanai Gharanai wrote:

I mean did a stupid man calling himself leader of muslims by the name of 0sama kill more than his other counterpart of the past Hitler?
Sorry for any kind of offense towards anyone's idea, as I was starting to get mad reading same topics again and again and had to burst my anger with words.
Perhaps "hitlers Ghost" is convenient when one does not want to discuus unpleasant subject?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2010 at 08:55
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Excuse me here Parnell, but I just can't resist...may we call your retraction "The Confession of a Christian Soul"?Wink
 
Keep in mind that often an attempt to distinguish the extreme from the normal often brings unfortunate results such as when the Bush administration coined the term Islamofascists, which in essence was an effort to label the Osama bunch in terminology that underscored their aberration. It's a classic example of how too much intelligence can further stoke the fires of misunderstanding (pun far from coincidental)!

I'm flabbergasted by the mention of 'too much intelligence' and 'the Bush Administration' in the same breathShocked
"There was glory in pissing, Corabb decided as he watched the stream curve out and make that familiar but unique sound as it hit the ground." So true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2010 at 09:48
Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

 
One may wonder a bit of those people complaining about "discrimination", "lack of repsect" etcetera in a case like this - and others.
Could it be that some of this complaining is rooted in lack of selfrespect?

Yes.
Quote
Kids and minors have a tendency to whine and cry and rage every time the world does not behave excactly according to their wishes.

Adults doubly so. If you don't make a fuss, you can't defend your rights. Making a fuss about whining and crying is also making a fuss, in this case, to defend their 'right' to be racist.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2010 at 20:33
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

 
One may wonder a bit of those people complaining about "discrimination", "lack of repsect" etcetera in a case like this - and others.
Could it be that some of this complaining is rooted in lack of selfrespect?

Yes.
Quote
Kids and minors have a tendency to whine and cry and rage every time the world does not behave excactly according to their wishes.

Adults doubly so. If you don't make a fuss, you can't defend your rights. Making a fuss about whining and crying is also making a fuss, in this case, to defend their 'right' to be racist.
Of course if the "fuss" is peacefull it is hard to see why it should not be allowed if not necessarily admired.
About "right" or not to "racism" it may be up to courts, a place were rights should be defended.
A remark about folowers of religions (in this case islam) and generalisations: It may be a good question if any such generalisations (above trivial ones) are true or valid. But I think generalisations about  the founder and his book are sensible. If not the reason may be such a "founder" is seen not as a historical person, or his work not as "original".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2010 at 06:00
Maybe there will be some more commotion now when the Norway newspaper Aftenposten publishes the Muhammed cartoons again.

A translated quote from a Swedish Newspaper:
Quote The Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten published on Friday, five of the controversial cartoon images of Prophet Mohammed. The newspaper considers it timely to print the cartoons.

We have always defended the medias right to publish these cartoons, and we printed a facsimile of them when the fuss began 2005. When the conflict then escalated and became international in 2006, we chose not to publish them, says editor Hilde Haugsgerd the report said.

http://www.ostran.se/sveriges_nyheter/aftenposten_trycker_muhammedbilder


In english you can read more about it here:

http://www.norwaypost.no/content/view/23025/26/



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2010 at 06:19
Originally posted by Gharanai Gharanai wrote:

But never I have seen such a racist attitude towards the Christians, no because at least we the backward people of the stone age Asians can understand that few people could not represent the entire community.
You may not have seen it, but there have been just as many racist attitudes to Christians and  Europeans (and subsets of both categories) as there have been to anyone else.
 
Intolerance, racism and religionism (!) are equal-opportunity evils.  And no race, religion or country is free of them.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2010 at 19:23
Little more about the man who threatened Westergaard with an axe. It seems he had been involved in some dubious activity before:
 
Quote The Danish Somali man who broke into Mohammed cartoonist Kurt Westergaards home with an ax has previously tried to recruit young Swedes to the Islamist Al Shahab, writes Danish newspaper Berlingske Tidende. Solicitation attempts have been taking place at two mosques in Gothenburg and at one occasion a man who later killed 23 people in a suicide attack in Mogadishu in Somalia, participated.
 
Text TV TV6 January 13


Edited by Carcharodon - 13 Jan 2010 at 19:24
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