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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 00:52
Unfortunately up here in Northern Europe they were not always so good in using the new crops or make good dishes from them. At least not in the beginning.

When concerning potatoes it is said that some people even tried to eat their fruits instead of the tubers. And sometimes potatoes were also grinded and mixed with flour, to make the flour last longer when baking bread. Also there were problems in the beginning in finding suitable land to grow it on. And some did not like the taste of the potatoes.
So it actually took a while before it became popular.


Edited by Carcharodon - 08 Jan 2010 at 00:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 04:05
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Hell, Carch even bloviated about how it was Chinese restaurants that taught Europeans how to prepare rice!

It was Chinese migrants who taught white Australians how prepare rice. That statement is exactly true for the segment of North European population that migrated to Australia at the very least. When my mum was a kid no-one ate rice except when having a chinese meal, and when my mum as a teenager sent the recipe for fried rice to a Norweigan pen friend, her friend said "what a strange dish doesn't it have any potatoes in it? I don't know where I can get the ingrediants".
So I'm prepared to believe Carch on this one.
Quote If we are going to speak of early cultivators of anything, we have to acknowledge that each made do with the grains that were available and that each practiced the identical haphazard selective processes. It has nothing to do with Chinese "genius" or Amerinds defining the techniques of geneticists.

We're not talking of early cultivators anymore, but it has everything to do with the fact that Chinese eat rice and North Europeans didn't.
Quote Just the use of the term "westerners" is silly. The spice trade had been of long standing in the Ancient World and rice was cultivated in the Iberian peninsula for centuries before any caravel set off into the Atlantic!

True. Southern and Northern European cooking is totally different. But the wogs didn't teach the anglos to cook rice.
Quote And as I said long, long ago, the dispersion of comestibles has a history as old as Man himself and "cooking" belongs to the Paleolithic not to some ethnic composte!

Are you trying to deny that different cultures cook in different ways? Sure the basic techniques are ancient but Pakistanis still don't know how to cook cake!
Quote "Immigrants" slaving away in our "kitchens" so that we may eat correctly! ROTFLAMAO...I suppose, Carch, you believe the stuff served at Taco Bell is authentic cuisine because it's served by an undocumented alien!?!

Its pretty clear you don't have much idea about what multiculturalism does to the food supply. I divide Australia up into two sections, 'Kebab country' and 'Pie country'. In Kebab country the cheapest simplist food you can find is a Kebab. In pie country, its a pie. When travelling in pie country you're lucky if there is a MacDonalds, and there's almost a 0% chance of anything as ethnic as a Taco Bell. The difference is that kebab country is the region that has recieved immigrants in the last 50 years, and those immigrants have permanently altered the diets of the people around them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 11:34
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

 
Still without other continents, and cultures, western food would be much less varied and more dull.
Any country's or continent's cooking would be less varied and duller without input from other cultures. That's a trivial truism.
 
Think how absolutely dull Mexican cooking would be if you had to eat it every day. Or Japanese. Or Arab. Or Kashniri or Cantonese.
 
In fact 'European' cooking is more varied than any single country's (even Indian or Chinese) because it covers so many cultures from the Swedish to the Spanish to the Greek. So of course does 'Asian cooking'.
 
But the most varied and least dull single-culture cuisine remains the French.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 11:42
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Hell, Carch even bloviated about how it was Chinese restaurants that taught Europeans how to prepare rice!

It was Chinese migrants who taught white Australians how prepare rice. That statement is exactly true for the segment of North European population that migrated to Australia at the very least. When my mum was a kid no-one ate rice except when having a chinese meal, and when my mum as a teenager sent the recipe for fried rice to a Norweigan pen friend, her friend said "what a strange dish doesn't it have any potatoes in it? I don't know where I can get the ingrediants".
So I'm prepared to believe Carch on this one.
Except he said 'Europeans'. Lots of Europeans cooked rice as a staple.
In Britain it wasn't the Chinese that taught the population how to cook rice as anything but a dessert. In my personal experience (which covers the period when rice became a popular savoury staple in Britain) it was a combination of Indians, Cypriots and Italians. Britons also became familiar with rice in that fashion through holiday excursions to Spain.

And of course one shouldn't forget the dominance of Eliabeth David's works on the kitchen bookshelves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 12:27
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

...
In fact 'European' cooking is more varied than any single country's (even Indian or Chinese) because it covers so many cultures from the Swedish to the Spanish to the Greek. So of course does 'Asian cooking'.
 
But the most varied and least dull single-culture cuisine remains the French.
 
ConfusedConfused
 
Have you ever considered that the countries of the Americas have more kind of foods? Consider the native foods, the Europeans and the immigrants. Only in the native food parts there are many fruts, vegetables and dishes that the European has never eaten.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 13:57
Pero que a vezes tu eres un come mierda, Pinguino! There in Spanish but at least off my chest, given that the last declaration above goes beyond the dumb. Go suck on a nopalito and let the taste remind you to think twice before putting forth nonsense such as the above post!

Edited by drgonzaga - 08 Jan 2010 at 13:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 14:28
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Pero que a vezes tu eres un come mierda, Pinguino! There in Spanish but at least off my chest, given that the last declaration above goes beyond the dumb. Go suck on a nopalito and let the taste remind you to think twice before putting forth nonsense such as the above post!
 
The moderators here don't speak Spanish, so they aren't aware of the kind of insults you posted here.
 
You are a very uneducated man, actually. So, I quit with you now.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 15:32
As I have written in another thread.  English is the official language of this forum therefore anything written in a language other than English needs to be translated.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 16:03
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

...
In fact 'European' cooking is more varied than any single country's (even Indian or Chinese) because it covers so many cultures from the Swedish to the Spanish to the Greek. So of course does 'Asian cooking'.
 
But the most varied and least dull single-culture cuisine remains the French.
 
ConfusedConfused
 
Have you ever considered that the countries of the Americas have more kind of foods?
Nope. They don't. We have various kinds of Latin American restaurants here - Argentinian, Brazilian, Mexican... - to be restricted to any one of them would be just as boring as being restricted to any other single-culture diet. That goes double for the Argentine. You'd think there was nothing edible in the world but beef.
Quote
Consider the native foods, the Europeans and the immigrants. Only in the native food parts there are many fruts, vegetables and dishes that the European has never eaten.
Name some.
And then we'll try and see what vegetables and wildlife and dishes we have here that they don't have in Chile.
 
How's your Judd mat gardebounen for instance (to conform, that's ham of a certain sort (neck) cooked in a specific sauce with broad beans)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 16:37
Have you eat quinoa, pinones, merken or curanto?

Edited by pinguin - 08 Jan 2010 at 16:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dawn- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 17:33
yes,yes yes and yes.   whats the point?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 19:08
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

[
In fact 'European' cooking is more varied than any single country's (even Indian or Chinese) because it covers so many cultures from the Swedish to the Spanish to the Greek. So of course does 'Asian cooking'.
 
But the most varied and least dull single-culture cuisine remains the French.


China consists of so many cultures and local traditions that the variety of foodstuffs and different kind of dishes rival Europes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 20:29
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

[
In fact 'European' cooking is more varied than any single country's (even Indian or Chinese) because it covers so many cultures from the Swedish to the Spanish to the Greek. So of course does 'Asian cooking'.
 
But the most varied and least dull single-culture cuisine remains the French.


China consists of so many cultures and local traditions that the variety of foodstuffs and different kind of dishes rival Europes.
Rivals, but does not exceed.
 
If you notice I paid special attention to China and to India, which indeed are more varied than most. I don't believe eiher India or China has the variety of grains and root vegetables Europe has (Africa has more of those). And neither India nor China of course has cheese, except for paneer in India which is no more in effect than cottage cheese. China has very few if any milk products at all (in traditional cooking).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 20:49
Originally posted by King John King John wrote:

As I have written in another thread.  English is the official language of this forum therefore anything written in a language other than English needs to be translated.  
 
My apologies, KJ, but as you know another thread is now locked consequent to the same type of irrational interjections meant to do little else except attack either a country or a culture in order to exalt vague spurious claims divorced from any reality.  I put it in Spanish but the phrase simply transliterates as "stop being a fool" in the contemporary urban Latino setting. After all the jawing the Pinguin has been doing that reaction of his is but another piece of evidence that underscores his actual unfamiliarity with Spanish American culture in a truly modern setting. I am not alone in having had enough of this type of childishness akin to nagging brats arguing over whose cake is bigger. Just the labeling--aboriginal foods--should induce indigestion and bring forth a fit of retching!
 
Sure certain people cultivated rice in 4000 BC, but then others cultivated wheat by that time. What's so unique? And when off-the-wall statements blatantly contradicting the history of foods dispersal are put forth, it's way past the time for a call-to-order.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 20:51
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

[
In fact 'European' cooking is more varied than any single country's (even Indian or Chinese) because it covers so many cultures from the Swedish to the Spanish to the Greek. So of course does 'Asian cooking'.
 
But the most varied and least dull single-culture cuisine remains the French.


China consists of so many cultures and local traditions that the variety of foodstuffs and different kind of dishes rival Europes.
Rivals, but does not exceed.
 
If you notice I paid special attention to China and to India, which indeed are more varied than most. I don't believe eiher India or China has the variety of grains and root vegetables Europe has (Africa has more of those). And neither India nor China of course has cheese, except for paneer in India which is no more in effect than cottage cheese. China has very few if any milk products at all (in traditional cooking).


Instead China may have some fruits and vegetables that are lacking in Europe (or where lacking not long ago). And many animal foodstuffs like some insects, reptiles and others are also missing from most European kitchens. But today more and more foodstuffs from the outside reaches both Europe and China, and new recipes and dishes are used, many of them fusions between new and traditional, between domestic and foreign. So both kitchens probably will get enrichen.
And also traditional cooking both in China and Europe has never been static. Some parts of China has been involved in contacts and trade with the outer world for millenia, introducing new spices and different products. And this also goes for at least some parts of Europe.
It can be hard to exactly know or count how many products and dishes there have been in boths  kitchens over time.



Edited by Carcharodon - 08 Jan 2010 at 20:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 20:52
Food preparation is a part of culture and is developed through culture. If I gave Dr. G. some barley (which is new to his culture, let's say) I bet he could make some mean bappir. But I can malt it, roast it, ferment it, and have a party.
 
Even if we all were subject to the same or similar biota, I am certain differences will exist in a culturally isolated context. Actually, this is provable when considering differences in subsistence strategies and resource expliotation in the pre-contact North American Southwest (mainly Southern California). A group could rely on a single form or strategy when a more abundant resource exists (there is big ocean here) and it is known to be used by others. They chose not to. Why? It's probably cultural...
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 21:08
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

[
In fact 'European' cooking is more varied than any single country's (even Indian or Chinese) because it covers so many cultures from the Swedish to the Spanish to the Greek. So of course does 'Asian cooking'.
 
But the most varied and least dull single-culture cuisine remains the French.


China consists of so many cultures and local traditions that the variety of foodstuffs and different kind of dishes rival Europes.
Rivals, but does not exceed.
 
If you notice I paid special attention to China and to India, which indeed are more varied than most. I don't believe eiher India or China has the variety of grains and root vegetables Europe has (Africa has more of those). And neither India nor China of course has cheese, except for paneer in India which is no more in effect than cottage cheese. China has very few if any milk products at all (in traditional cooking).


Instead China may have some fruits and vegetables that are lacking in Europe (or where lacking not long ago).
'May have'? China 'may have' anything. It also may not have. Either it does have or it doesn't have. All of a country's food might be unique to it, but that wouldn't stop it being boring and dull, especially if you're stuck with it every day. Europe never had corn tortillas until recently, but they can be an incredibly dull part of Mexican cooking (nothing wrong with them occasionally of course).
Quote
 
And many animal foodstuffs like some insects, reptiles and others are also missing from most European kitchens. But today more and more foodstuffs from the outside reaches both Europe and China, and new recipes and dishes are used, many of them fusions between new and traditional, between domestic and foreign. So both kitchens probably will get enrichen.
And also traditional cooking both in China and Europe has never been static. Some parts of China has been involved in contacts and trade with the outer world for millenia, introducing new spices and different products. And this also goes for at least some parts of Europe.
It can be hard to exactly know or count how many products and dishes there have been in boths  kitchens over time.

Well I agree with all that. In fact it was my original point against the idea you put forward that European cookiing was the primary beneficiary of imported foodtuffs and dishes from other countries.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 21:10
Originally posted by Goban Goban wrote:

Food preparation is a part of culture and is developed through culture. If I gave Dr. G. some barley (which is new to his culture, let's say) I bet he could make some mean bappir. But I can malt it, roast it, ferment it, and have a party.
Oddly what I normally do with it is thicken stews. Which makes your point I suppose. (Though I'm grateful to the people who do ferment it - and distill it.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 21:24
Is there a Chinese cuisine? Or for that matter a French one, given the wonderful variations that have nothing to do with "nationality" and are specific even to as small a place as an obscure valley. Styles of cooking are as varied as the craters on the moon and within a "national" setting a pretense at homogeneity is ridiculous. Is tempura Japanese cuisine given that deep frying is hardly unique to Japan--and in fact this method of preparation does have a time-line fixed to the 16th century and the Portuguese! I would most certainly eat an iguana in Tabasco but most certainly be rather averse to munching on one in Houston! Personally, an Indian mango is rather unpalatable to one who has feasted on a Haydn Mango. Who gave us the mango? Only the truly foolish would look for nationality papers to answer that one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 21:35

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:


Well I agree with all that. In fact it was my original point against the idea you put forward that European cookiing was the primary beneficiary of imported foodtuffs and dishes from other countries.


But still it is in many aspects. For example a lot of fruits and new vegetables have come to Europe from other continents and many dishes too. The more foodstuffs and dishes the more variation. So still other continents have enrichened Europes culinary culture to a very high extent and continues to do so. Without products and dishes from the Americas, from Asia and other places European cousine would indeed be less varied and more dull.



Edited by Carcharodon - 08 Jan 2010 at 21:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 21:51
Omar I just noted the below:
 
Its pretty clear you don't have much idea about what multiculturalism does to the food supply. I divide Australia up into two sections, 'Kebab country' and 'Pie country'. In Kebab country the cheapest simplist food you can find is a Kebab. In pie country, its a pie. When travelling in pie country you're lucky if there is a MacDonalds, and there's almost a 0% chance of anything as ethnic as a Taco Bell. The difference is that kebab country is the region that has recieved immigrants in the last 50 years, and those immigrants have permanently altered the diets of the people around them.
 
I most certainly know what "mutliculturalism" does to cuisine, it usually destroys any resemblance between what is merchandised and the original "delicacy". When I mentioned Taco Bell it was meant in full irony. Strangely enough, living in Houston, we probably have exposure to a greater variety of cooking styles than most places on the globe yet, here even Mongolian cuisine has been Mickey D'eed into oblivion. Yet, if you do want an "original" you can usually find it if one is "adventurous" even if it involves only a Shepherd's Pie! Strangely enough, as with the "barley" in Goban's comment, I find that to get the real thing, I have to do it myself!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dawn- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2010 at 01:36
couple of points:  for you soles that are obsessed with rice.   

there has been rice cultivated in Asia for at least 4000 years - thats not just china but india, and points west all around that first point of civilization.   The most common way to cook rice, even today is a sort of pilaf style where you  cook it in liquid till the liquid is gone. ( no what Chinese restaurants sell as steamed rice isn't steamed at all)   Now picture this: these bodies must move on from where they where at and head north and east and what ever . In there new place they have none of that white stuff but find what we call barley or in a differant place what we call wild rice. it looks kind of the same sort of in a weird way and they are hungry -well lets try cooking it like we are use to and see what happens.  omg its edible and taste good and a new dish is born.  Thats sort of how things mutate. 


the other point. there are a number of dishes that are common all around the globe in most cultures. Now you wouldn't necessarily spot them as being the same unless you thought about how they are made because they don't have the same ingredients in them.  A type of flat bread is one and the dumpling is another. these things seem to have developed more or less independently all over the place.  ( Omar sorry I know next to nothing about Australian food so I have to exclude it) Why is that - well my guess is cause its just a logical progression cause there is only so many ways to cook things ( 9 to be exact)  

  


Edited by Dawn - 09 Jan 2010 at 01:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2010 at 10:04
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

I put it in Spanish but the phrase simply transliterates as "stop being a fool" in the contemporary urban Latino setting... 
 
 
You lie as usual. What you wrote doesn't mean "stop to be fool":
 
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Pero que a vezes tu eres un come mierda, Pinguino! There in Spanish but at least off my chest, given that the last declaration above goes beyond the dumb. Go suck on a nopalito and let the taste remind you to think twice before putting forth nonsense such as the above post!
 
An given the mods don't have idea what you wrote, I will translate, so they understand the ordinary man you are:
 
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

But sometimes you are an sh*t eater, Penguin! ... Go suck on a nopalito... (virile member)...
 
Confused
 
So, don't lie again, and stop bulling in Spanish while using sofisticated sophistry in English, idiot.
 
 
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 09 Jan 2010 at 10:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2010 at 15:36
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:


Well I agree with all that. In fact it was my original point against the idea you put forward that European cookiing was the primary beneficiary of imported foodtuffs and dishes from other countries.


But still it is in many aspects. For example a lot of fruits and new vegetables have come to Europe from other continents and many dishes too. The more foodstuffs and dishes the more variation. So still other continents have enrichened Europes culinary culture to a very high extent and continues to do so. Without products and dishes from the Americas, from Asia and other places European cousine would indeed be less varied and more dull.

But why on earth do you keep saying that European cuisine in particular has benefitted from such intermingling? Without input from Europe for instance American Indian cooking would be dull as ditchwater. African cooking wouldn't be much better. In how many continents are beef and veal, lamb and mutton, pork, goose, duck, pigeon, chicken, quail, venison, wild boar, reindeer, rabbit, hare, horse regularly available grilled, roast, stewed, deep fried, pan fried, raw, minced, braised, goulashed, in wine sauces, beer sauces - sauces innumerable - garlicked and ungarlicked, pickled, preserved, jugged, patéed and pied and pancaked...
 
And that's just the meat course. And even in that, for all those animals, you have livers, kidneys, sweetbreads, brains, heart, tripe and lungs as well as ordinary meat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2010 at 16:45
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

But why on earth do you keep saying that European cuisine in particular has benefitted from such intermingling? Without input from Europe for instance American Indian cooking would be dull as ditchwater. African cooking wouldn't be much better. In how many continents are beef and veal, lamb and mutton, pork, goose, duck, pigeon, chicken, quail, venison, wild boar, reindeer, rabbit, hare, horse regularly available grilled, roast, stewed, deep fried, pan fried, raw, minced, braised, goulashed, in wine sauces, beer sauces - sauces innumerable - garlicked and ungarlicked, pickled, preserved, jugged, patéed and pied and pancaked...
 
And that's just the meat course. And even in that, for all those animals, you have livers, kidneys, sweetbreads, brains, heart, tripe and lungs as well as ordinary meat.



All the animals you mention also exist outside Europe, with their own traditional recipes of how to cook them. For example in China they probably had more ways of preparing meat than in old traditional European kitchens.

But of course today, nearly all the kitchens of the world enrichen each other.





Edited by Carcharodon - 09 Jan 2010 at 16:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2010 at 17:33
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

I put it in Spanish but the phrase simply transliterates as "stop being a fool" in the contemporary urban Latino setting... 
 
 
You lie as usual. What you wrote doesn't mean "stop to be fool":
 
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Pero que a vezes tu eres un come mierda, Pinguino! There in Spanish but at least off my chest, given that the last declaration above goes beyond the dumb. Go suck on a nopalito and let the taste remind you to think twice before putting forth nonsense such as the above post!
 
An given the mods don't have idea what you wrote, I will translate, so they understand the ordinary man you are:
 
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

But sometimes you are an sh*t eater, Penguin! ... Go suck on a nopalito... (virile member)...
 
Confused
 
So, don't lie again, and stop bulling in Spanish while using sofisticated sophistry in English, idiot.
 
 
 
 
1. Some of the mods can read Spanish and know what that meant, so let's not work under the pretense that the mods are ignorant of other languages.  The comment is being discussed so don't go calling people out if you don't know what's going on behind the scenes.

2. If we must call people names we are showing our inability to make an argument of any merit.  

3.  Keep in mind that calling somebody an "idiot" is a personal attack and a violation of the CoC VII.B.5 and 8.  If we can't act civilly towards one another, it might be time for a timeout.  Please keep it civil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2010 at 18:55
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

But why on earth do you keep saying that European cuisine in particular has benefitted from such intermingling? Without input from Europe for instance American Indian cooking would be dull as ditchwater. African cooking wouldn't be much better. In how many continents are beef and veal, lamb and mutton, pork, goose, duck, pigeon, chicken, quail, venison, wild boar, reindeer, rabbit, hare, horse regularly available grilled, roast, stewed, deep fried, pan fried, raw, minced, braised, goulashed, in wine sauces, beer sauces - sauces innumerable - garlicked and ungarlicked, pickled, preserved, jugged, patéed and pied and pancaked...
 
And that's just the meat course. And even in that, for all those animals, you have livers, kidneys, sweetbreads, brains, heart, tripe and lungs as well as ordinary meat.



All the animals you mention also exist outside Europe,
D'uh!  Of course. The point is they don't all exist in one single culinary tradition other than European. For instance, beef, veal, mutton and lamb don't exist in traditional North American cultures (before the Europeans arrived). They certainly didn't have beer sauces and I can't think of any that do. Wine sauces are rare, though the Chinese have them. Nobody makes roux-based sauces outside Europe.  And so on. The points are (a) that no other culture has them all and (b) Europe didn't need to import them (at least in historical times).
 
And I haven't even started on cheese. How many native cheeses (that is, coagulated cheeses, not cottage cheeses like paneer) can you name outside Europe? Or take varieties of pasta, which Italy alone has more of than anyone.
Quote
with their own traditional recipes of how to cook them. For example in China they probably had more ways of preparing meat than in old traditional European kitchens.
No they didn't. They didn't even have the necessary pots and pans and ovens. And what's with the 'probably'? You're always claiming 'probably' withouit laying any foundation for it at all.
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But of course today, nearly all the kitchens of the world enrichen each other.
So stop yattering on about how dull European food would be without imports from other places. It isn't true. It would be less monotonous than any other.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2010 at 19:31
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

[QUOTE]
with their own traditional recipes of how to cook them. For example in China they probably had more ways of preparing meat than in old traditional European kitchens.
No they didn't. They didn't even have the necessary pots and pans and ovens. And what's with the 'probably'? You're always claiming 'probably' withouit laying any foundation for it at all.
[QUOTE]

Of course its more varied. I have chinese friends (working with food, recipes and similar) who have travelled in several European countries and also studied literature on different European ways of cooking and they think European variation in ways to procure and serve meat is indeed not as varied as in China.

And no pots and pans? China invented steam cooking and similar methods alredy in the stone age.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2010 at 20:53
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Quote
with their own traditional recipes of how to cook them. For example in China they probably had more ways of preparing meat than in old traditional European kitchens.
No they didn't. They didn't even have the necessary pots and pans and ovens. And what's with the 'probably'? You're always claiming 'probably' withouit laying any foundation for it at all.


Of course its more varied. I have chinese friends (working with food, recipes and similar) who have travelled in several European countries and also studied literature on different European ways of cooking and they think European variation in ways to procure and serve meat is indeed not as varied as in China.
There's certainly no 'of course' about it. So you know Chinese who have been to Europe with its 30 or so different national and far more regional cuisines, and travelled in a few countries and ended up saying Chinese cooking is more varied. Quite apart from any suggestion of nationalist bias Shocked you'd expect someone who'd been eating one cuisine since he was a child, and sampled something else for six weeks or so - even a couple of years, to think the one he'd known all his life was more varied.
In thirty years you tend to eat more than you do in three.
 
Granted you could apply the same argument to me, but I'm not just offering what someone says and claiming it as evidence.
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And no pots and pans? China invented steam cooking and similar methods alredy in the stone age.
I didn't say NO pots and pans. That would have been idiotic. I have Chinese cookware myself. I said the 'necessary' pots and pans, meaning those necessary for all the cooking methods I outlined. I know the Chinese invented steam cooking. So did Europeans invent steam cooking (and use of the bain marie - does China have hardware for the bain marie?)  Probably so did other cultures: North Africans for instance with the couscousier. But you're implying the Chinese were the only people to invent it, which is untrue.
 
As a similar example take nuoc mamh, the Vietnamese fish sauce (obtained from rotting shrimp). Under the name garum the ancient Romans invented it for themselves (or possibly got it from the Greeks) An awfullot of independent invention went on, as someone has alredy pointed out.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2010 at 22:37
Different varaitions of steam cooking and water baths has occured in many parts of the world. And steam cooking were known in China already in neolithic times.

But I can agree that some inventions are made in several places in different times, even independantly of each other.

The friends I have been talking about have been in Europe for many years and have traveled and been interested in sampling food for several years. Its not a matter of some weeks.

But maybe no point into making this into a contest on who has most. The fact is still that other cultures have enrichend western food in a very high degree.

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