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Alien Intervention

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Robert Baird View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 Mar 2016 at 05:35
Christi Verismo and Universal Seduction
You can see a lot more about many alien overlord types who somehow need puny Earth Governments to plan for the use of Earth technology such as Tesla developed from writings in the Bible addressing Harmonics known millennia before and called The Lost Chord, or Logos. Christi's work is available on Angelfire and if you believe it, your tin foil helmet will not save you and no tachyon pulse defense system will matter one iota.

There are many Armageddon BELIEVERS and people speaking for G-d who will tell you THEY know about the Aliens among us or the Devil who is above (or somewhere else - it varies). The genre includes logic such as the Nephilim were proof of ancient hybrids and human development which there is no evidence of said technological development potential in human history. It certainly was true in the history I was taught in the late 50s and 60s - that no good explanation existed for much of what Von Daniken and others said. The whole genre is indeed seductive for those who will not study and/or those who fear science which their masters on pulpits assure them is only operating on Theories and the science knows nothing compared to what they know as they speak for GOD.

You will find many good sources used by myself and Christi or other people who make money. Like my friend Jim Marrs in Alien Agenda in his book based on the proven lies of Sitchin and Von Daniken. I have an open mind and I have had many experiences with back-engineers and Skunk Works officials and the like. I was on Jim's site for years with other researchers and we gave him reason to proceed down these paths to some extent. I think (NOT Believe) I have the framework for the science which Tesla used and Cathie or others write about.

I have collected the evidence in archaeology and all hard sciences which dovetail with all personal experiences I have had and there is nothing alien as far as Intervention going on. It makes an excellent cover story to have people like Christi, Jim and Linda Moulton Howe being fed things like once were fed to the National Enquirer. Government disinfo operatives have confessed (Walter Bosley for one), and reporters at the New York Times and other places have also said they were paid to create deep cover for black ops, I know people who worked with the god helmet technology in the 1960s and I have written a book based largely on Tesla's own autobiography up to the point he went Black. It is not important that I employed his great grand-niece in 1981, because she knew next to nothing. It is important that I hired her and was aware of him and his work at that time.

The good sources are quoted alongside the bad sources and there are sources like Tom Bearden or Bruce Cathie who are partially on the alien agenda side and partially not or not sure of what is going down. It takes a lot of time to keep on top of everything and I do not disrespect Jim Marrs for not knowing about these things as much as I think he should have before going off half-cocked. I have less respect for his ultra-conservative political head-in-the-sand ideas. You can read David Guyatt and many others to get the gist of what has happened in recent science addressing mind control. Sharon Weinberger and Alan Barker are great sources as well. If your interest is in writing a book all you have to do is quote a bunch of these people alongside whatever religious cult denomination you BELIEVE in and voila - you can make money and go on the convention circuit.

You can also read about my experiences in Chichen Itza: Time or other more far out things in history in books on Ancient Technology and The Lost Chord. In Hitler versus Frabato and "The Charm of Making" I even allowed myself the freedom to support Franz Bardon's cosmogony which is similar to Urantia and other Rosicrucian or Dragon Court initiatives to some extent. I have used a lot from Gardner's Genesis of the Grail Kings having a sub-title addressing ancient cloning and other technology or rituals. I have shown him wrong and Jane Roberts in Seth Speaks (who I also learned a great deal from) is just taking things few people knew and making history come to life though speakers like Tesla's father and grandfather or Gurdjieff and others including Blavatsky have done. When you see Lucis Trust or Alice Bailey mentioned in Angelfire's extensive coverage of what I will soon quote - you are indeed looking down a BIG rabbit hole - Alice!

"A major NSA defector revealed that US has been carrying out continuous research into electromagnetic propulsion at Pine Gap since 1966, which was originally started in US after the war. Security aspects have included hypnotic and post hypnotic keys planted in personnel prior into acceptance into the project. {Futurescape was under-funded and starting to go far beyond this almost childish level of the technology including Persinger, Del Gado and Wilder Penfield and others going back to the 60s.}

A man has claimed his father worked on UFOs at Pine Gap. He worked for the FAA in 1970 fixing the programming of mainframe computers. He was one of only two or three in the US who knew whatever program they were installing. During the late 70’s he made several trips to Australia. When his father came to visit, he had a locked briefcase that was chained to him. They were then followed everywhere. His father said he was working on a flying saucer, involved with anti-gravity propulsion, melding the computer elements together for the guidance or stability part of it, underground at Pine Gap. {I discussed using ESP bandwidth as the substrate for this approach with a VP over-seeing the Skunk Works when I lived in Long Beach in the early 1990 era.}

Pine Gap locals have seen 30 ft wide white disks being unloaded from large US cargo planes at the airports with the USAF emblem on them. Many are seen flying at night. {My high school physics teacher worked with Von Braun and when he came to Canada he worked on flying saucer technology at Avro Arrow.} Much furniture has been delivered. An enormous amount of food is apparently stocked in warehouses of what could be a multi-leveled underground city. DR Jean Francois Gille writes that shares {So fundamentally naïve that I hope no comment is needed.} put on the market at the same time will cause a world stock market crash. Cash will be worthless and the risks of a global planned confrontation will be high.

Underground bases will serve as a place of safety for politicians and international financiers. Plastic cards will be necessary and the setting up of a world government ensuring ‘peace'. Many will be taken to concentration camps. Our new ‘Masters’ have the alien’s support that they have made alliances with. William Cooper says all the CIA Directors and Secretaries of State were all members of the Council on Foreign Relations and also the MJ 12, which includes Kissinger. They rule US. {The author of much of this is Professor Quigley and he and I agree that what they do is OK - we just need to know what is actually going on. In the 1970s I drove through DC area one night and heard open discourse about it all on radio - no secrets here.}

The secret government kill America’s children for the alien projects according to their agreements with alien nations to rule the world jointly. They can make US currency worthless at any time and bring everyone under control with their global credit card. In 1996 witnesses saw a triangular craft descend at an area west of Pine Gap and many UFOs have been seen coming and going regularly from camouflaged entrances at Pine Gap. Scientists and various aliens, (mostly reptilians claiming to have once originated from earth, with DNA of a 2 legged earth sauroid) that the US govt. has made alliances with work together underground there. Genetic research in the form of human/alien hybridization and anti-gravity experimentation is done at Pine Gap and other underground US bases.

Stan Deyo also asks if Pine Gap could be a man-made city of multiple levels, used to shelter key US personnel in the event of some disaster. Among some of the major contractors and suppliers for Pine Gap have been Collins Radio, McMahon Construction, LTV aero-space company, a conglomerate of electronics and aircraft manufacturing subsidiaries and IBM Stan says it is rumored that there are super IBM computer systems on a floating platform, ‘down the well’ underneath the facility. IBM has mammoth computers which can recognize both voice and visual patterns.

Their main memory sizes are said to be in excess of 2,000,000,000 bytes. The first 2 antennas for controlling and communicating with satellites were constructed in 1966-67. In 1974 unauthorized photos and other information from inside the faculty are reported to have been sold to Russia. In 1991 Pine Gap was instrumental in tracking Iraqi SCUD {They made a lot of fear spread but are so basic it almost makes me laugh.} missiles, with satellite imagery tracking the Iraqi troops."
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Robert Baird View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert Baird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2016 at 14:12
The possibility of sentient beings on earlier solar systems said to be many billions of years older than our own, developing travel and transposition of some teleportational nature seems one of the most stable and down to earth possibilities when we consider these spheres. Other ideas flit through our mind as we imagineer the conscious wisdom of refined metallurgical objects beyond mere silica microchips and revisit what Dr Robins termed the megaliths - macrochips. The manganese nodules all over one part of the ocean occur naturally but what difference does that make when one is thinking about evolving layers of consciously connected matter guided by dimensional force entities of non-corporeal nature? That kind of thought might lead us to worship the Ka'aba with a lot more validity.

The spheres could also be put there to influence stability and join with other earth energy forces to actuate specific occurrences we are only remotely able to understand. It could be from our own future or from an earlier adept civilization whose attunement was collectively superior to what exists today. This kind of thought is more 'far-out' than David M. Jacobs, Ph. D. and the alien abduction agenda contemplated in his books Secret Life and The Threat. His associate professorship in history at Temple University makes one feel good about the possible future of free-thought in America. What sense does it make in one's day to day life to think about such wild imagineering? Well, that IS where the rubber hits the road as they say; and we humbly suggest that even in this life while physically manifest in sensual containers with high level focus on the joy these senses bring - we are part of the evolving purpose and what has been called God's greater purpose. We also suggest the way of knowledge and positive application of the results of thinking does not advantage one if they turn away from the facts. These spheres are facts and they can not have designs (or the vase from 300,000,000 years ago) of this complexity and be so metallurgically advanced if we take only our present concept of nature and history into account.

Is the flexible metal that can't be cut with welder's torches which is shown by the son of the Roswell whistle-blower drawn from the same manufacture process? A personal friend of mine says he knows a chemist/metallurgical researcher who was sent such material from the States to a place just east of Oshawa/Toronto. They could conceive no earthly explanation for it. Now which of these 'possibilities' do you wish to contemplate? The alien one has abductee experiences and hybrid genetics that include clearly extraterrestrial conclusions. The prior earth civilization with advanced technology and attunements beyond language and its limits, means matter can be sent back through time. When NEC Labs at Princeton observed 300X light speed in Cesium, the argument can still be made that time travel is not possible for complex systems that are living. Cesium is the most accurate means of tracing time in clocks in a great improvement over quartz which we have seen in the piezo-electric description of Dr Robins. Each different crystalline structure is an expression of the forming building blocks and their consciousnesses.


Nanotubes are part of a creative process that harmonizes to the rhythm of something we may soon know. There are ways to imagine the spheres could have been created by advanced human or other earth sentient beings in conjunction with the spirit and wisdom of the shamanic relationship in vortexes and wisdom thereof. The prevalence of spheres in this one area may be in response to a forceful build-up of whatever forms the manganese nodules or because of the same forces or intelligence from other parts of the universe such as whatever causes the meteors to collect in amazing numbers near Mt. Yamato in Antarctica.

In attempting to come up with a way to express or communicate the places where the mind goes in integrating these truly mysterious things we are asking the reader to endure another German Nazi analogy on the slippery slope of ethics and the relative nature of morality. We all know the Nazis were heavy into esoterics and ancient civilization from the Spielberg trilogy but it was much more than just a hobby or some weird obsession. In fact you could say it was being done by others in secret bases; but we can't be sure of a great deal of these things because of the secrecy surrounding some weapons systems that even long after they are no longer in use aren't talked about. It is almost certain that Hitler and his cronies or handlers like General Hausohofer and Himmler were well aware of the weapons systems described in the Mahábhárata. They seem to have attempted to make most of them become real and their scientists were helpful to the development of these things after the war. Some of the things were already on the drawing boards and tested. Were they also in a position to know about the Foo Fighters?

"On the night of 15 November 1944 the team of Elmore and Mapes again recorded a first - a nighttime visual confirmation on a night flying Me163. Lt. Mapes remembers it well:

'We were flying what was known as a "free-lance" intruder mission around Bonn, Germany. It was around 2300 hours before we hit our area. The overcast was at 4000 ft. with a beautiful moonlit clear sky above. Suddenly, I picked up a "bogey" on my radar that was high above us and travelling at a terrific speed. Just as it was about to pass over us, Elmore put us into a hard 180 degree turn. I could not find it on the radar and looked out above us. The sight was unbelievable! It appeared to be shaped like a wedge of pie with a long plume of flame coming from its rear end.

I kept watching him and calling out where he was over the intercom. He appeared to be in a tight circle directly above us. About the time that Elmore got a visual, the flame died down to a glow and it started to spiral down on us. I could see intermittent bursts of fire from the nose, and knew it was cannon or machine gun fire. I relayed this on and we began taking violent evasive action. Suddenly, this strange aircraft broke off and went into a vertical climb, with a long plume of flame shooting out the rear end. After several manoeuvres like this, we both agreed it was the new German Me 163 rocket plane. We never could get in a position to fire on it because of its tight spiralling and rapid climbs. Finally, it left the area and we never saw it again. Although we never fired a shot at it, it was a very memorable mission!'" (18)


John von Neumann may not have known why all his teachers encouraged him to follow so many unconventional paths and Hitler may have a greater enduring part to play in the intergalactic 'seeding' of space and other advanced cloaking and cloning devices than even the Sanskrit texts contemplate. Please check into the von Neumann probes taking genetic material to other galactic planets at our present time. Could the 'spheres' have encoded or time release information? It can seem almost fun and beyond science fiction to go too far down this road. What is too far? We hope you'll decide for yourself and not cater to the conventional or societal norm like the good citizens of Germany did when they heard rumors about the 'fun' going on with Jews in concentration camps.

EDGAR MITCHELL: - The Noetic Sciences people are lucky to have this former astronaut (Astronaut Michael Collins similarly deals in spiritual truth from history) as part of their team of scientists. They have seminars that that cover much of the kind of thing that the future must bring into being our reality. Here is the intro to one of his workshops:

"For almost 400 years, western civilization has been structured around the Cartesian conclusion that body and mind belong to separate realms of existence. But Descartes was wrong; they are but two faces of an intelligent, creative, self-organizing, learning, trial and error, interactive, participatory, evolving universe. This Dyadic model proposes that existence and the ability to know (consciousness) both arise from the same concept - energy - an energy that contains the seeds of knowing. Non-local information about the physical universe provides the missing link between objective science and subjective experience, including the mystical experience. We will explore these concepts with ample time for questions and discussion.

Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut - sixth man to walk on the moon (1971), Founder, Institute of Noetic Sciences (1973), Author of Psychic Exploration and The Way of The Explorer. A pioneer in efforts to expand science toward understanding consciousness and inner experience. From the vicinity of the Moon, Ed Mitchell viewed planet Earth among the separate galaxies, the stars and planets, and had a transformative experience that changed his life. He left his job as a naval officer and astronaut, founded IONS {The institute of Noetic Sciences from which this excerpt is taken. I highly recommend them and a visit to their web site for starters.}, and began a rigorous exploration of links between inner and outer journeys, between science and spirituality."


He is a honorary member of the Club of Budapest and I will list some of the names including his here at this point, but I want you to ask yourself whether Von Neumann, Wigner, St. Germain and others from that region are somehow esoterically connected. Every one of these people could be highlighted in this book and I would have to say they are all excellent role models. There are so many great people in this Club that you might hope it will join with other Clubs like Rome and Athens someday.
http://www.clubofbudapest.org/clubof.../index.php/en/

And all the other things Laszlo is doing are equally important.

http://ervinlaszlo.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2016 at 10:47
There is a known psychological condition in human beings where they adhere to unsupportable ideas in the belief that their secret knowledge makes them in some way a wiser being. It's the fundamental reason why conspiracy theory, alien visitation, and so forth are touted in the way they are. There's nothing new about this phenomenon. Medieval people used to believe they were abducted by fairies, or mysterious dog-heads wandered the night. It is in fact quasi-religious mind states compensating for lack of education or even understanding. By creating their own mythos or agreeing to one they readily identify with, they both feel accepted as belonging to a 'better' minority and improve their self esteem.

But it's still all nonsense.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2016 at 04:15
Yes, they may have ulterior motives for such people believing such things, but the question is, if you strip off the layers, does one find something underneath, or is it like an onion, all there is, is layers?

Let's say, _for_ _sake_ of _argument_, aliens influence human affairs.  How would we tell?  Do we think that they would make it so obvious that they could get "caught" in the act.  If they are sophisticated enough for time/space/interdimensional travel, then they could probably understand our systems, whether it be economics, politics, science, religion or whatever, better than we do.  By better than we do I mean like a space shuttle compared to a bicycle.  So IF aliens or demons or time travelers or whatever existed then how would we ever know?  I don't think we would.  That doesn't mean that they exist, that just means if they did, chance are we wouldn't know it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2016 at 08:16
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Yes, they may have ulterior motives for such people believing such things, but the question is, if you strip off the layers, does one find something underneath, or is it like an onion, all there is, is layers?

Let's say, _for_ _sake_ of _argument_, aliens influence human affairs.  How would we tell?  Do we think that they would make it so obvious that they could get "caught" in the act.  If they are sophisticated enough for time/space/interdimensional travel, then they could probably understand our systems, whether it be economics, politics, science, religion or whatever, better than we do.  By better than we do I mean like a space shuttle compared to a bicycle.  So IF aliens or demons or time travelers or whatever existed then how would we ever know?  I don't think we would.  That doesn't mean that they exist, that just means if they did, chance are we wouldn't know it.

Gods love to be worshiped?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2016 at 21:58
To what extent does worship truly reflect knowledge of the 'object' of worship?  For that matter, most 21st century knowledge is knowledge of objects, to what extent would Gods be "objects" at all?

It is not that aliens or angels, etc. would have to make it so our world would be as if there was no interference, they only have to make the world so that any interference is below the threshold of our awareness.  If we had another world to compare ours with, then maybe certain things would stick out as interference, but we don't have other worlds, except in the imagination.  Aliens/angels don't have to totally cover their tracks, all they have do is muddy the waters.

But as far as conspiracies are concerned, humans are not necessarily that good at keeping secrets.  "Three men can keep a secret if two of them are dead."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2016 at 08:36
This one thought I think captures something that cannot be stressed enough.

"In the theory with which we have to deal, Absolute Ignorance is the artificer; so that we may enunciate as the fundamental principle of the whole system, that, in order to make a perfect and beautiful machine, it is not requisite to know how to make it. This proposition will be found, on careful examination, to express, in condensed form, the essential purport of the Theory, and to express in a few words all Mr. Darwin's meaning; who, by a strange inversion of reasoning, seems to think Absolute Ignorance fully qualified to take the place of Absolute Wisdom in all the achievements of creative skill."

This "Absolute Wisdom in all the achievements of creative skill" is totally dependant on error, an idea the human mind was not designed to comprehend.  The evidence that evolution is totally dependant on random errors is so overwhelming that it is hard to see an intelligent designer or interferor anywhere which of course is the best evidence that they don't exist.  If we had intelligent designers interfering there would have to be traces of evidence.

There are many things we don't understand and I happen to believe in ESP which to many people is a weird and irrational as believing in alien visitors.  Just to humor me let's say ESP does exist does that mean that we are spiritual animals?  I suspect not and I think that is the real problem in so far as why people want to believe in aliens, somehow aliens visitors make us special or at least worth inspecting.  People really don't want to be some random cosmic dust compilation.

Even with something as common as ESP we cannot produce a thread of evidence to support it scientifically.  So while it is true that aliens could evade our awareness like ESP has their influences would still have to be fairly inconsequential as ESP appears to be.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2016 at 00:00
The way we know things is through comparison and contrast.  It seems to me that traces of evidence, in order to be recognized, must be compared to something??  But with what do we have to compare this evidence?  How would we be able to tell if, say, demons or angels were playing with our economy?  Have we seen this before?  Do we have the slightest inkling of what a demon's or an angel's goal would be in doing so?  The economy or religion or society, or language is much too big for us to have a clear conception of them.  And its not like "they" would have to tinker with it and then let it be.  So maybe some smart human notices something, for a moment, and then the moment is gone, corrected, accounted for.  No, if aliens existed, I am not sure we would ever know it, would time travelers from 5 million years in the future get caught with their pants down?  Of course the absence of evidence, is not evidence against, and it definitely isn't evidence for.  But let's face it, if you were part of a grand conspiracy (you name it), would you let _you_ (or me) in on it?  I don't think so.

If aliens/demons/time travelers or whatever "existed," I suspect that those who knew about them wouldn't say, and those who say, wouldn't know.  Now of course it could be that no one knows, and some will say anything, and some won't. 

But you are right about people wanting to be special, if aliens existed I doubt we would be anymore special than the butterfly pinned to the cardboard.  Demons and angels would probably both be frying us with a cosmic magnifying glass.  Personally, I am inclined to think we are it for the Universe, until we get out of the solar system and start _becoming_ those aliens, as evolution in new environs would tend to effect us.  I agree with JG Ballard that we will contact alien life in outer space, and it will be a housewife from Yokohama.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2016 at 14:17
People are going to believe what they want irrespective of logic, rationality, or evidence. There's a guy at work for instance who describes himself as an 'anarchist' and a 'deep thinker' (He doesn't really fir either category as far as I can see). Every time discussions get around to history, militaries, economies, or politics, the same theme emerges. he always perceives the world as run by hidden all-powerful and mysterious elites. It reflects his paranoia and helplessness in the world more than actual observation, but every time one engages him in a debate on the subject, he is utterly unable to see it any other way. He actually told me the other day that the CIA bankroll themselves, that they effectively 'invent' or 'create' money.

Rubbish. The CIA might have a budget that is a matter of US national security, and happens to be a very large figure if the estimate for $44 Billion I saw quoted for 2013 is correct, but it remains a government funded institution that is answerable to their government - hence the American 'oversight' meetings when budget expenditures have to be explained or else.

Public perception of current affairs is often skewed according to various factors. I remember an Iranian immigrant who was in my engineering class at College in the 80's. He was convinced, completely and absolutely, that the CIA was responsible for every bad thing that happened in the world. I told him that couldn't be the case. There's only so many CIA agents, only so much money to fund their activities, and there's plenty of other agencies at work, never mind the unexpected twists of fate. He simply couldn't understand why I was saying that.

That sort of thing isn't unusual. A forklift driver I spoke to a couple of years ago, as british as you can get, had exactly the same beliefs. He could not accept that 9/11 was the work of a slightly amateurish terrorist team. No, he insisted it was CIA black ops, without any inkling of commonsense or understanding of the politics, science, and forensics of the event. Another british warehouseman the same day insisted that the Falkland War was about getting bases in Chile. Pardon me? Well, a serviceman had told him that and it was from the horses mouth as far as he was concerned, never mind the complete implausibility of that particular leg-pull and all the evidence that it was a military expedition to oust Argentine occupation of a British dependency.

The reality isn't enough. Some people want to believe they know more than what the media tell us or perhaps more importantly, that they know more than you or I. Now I have to accept that even the western free press isn't entirely honest and objective all of the time, but then, neither are their sources. In some cases, information is withheld to prevent undesirable circumstances, or indeed discoveries that the authorities don't want scrutinised. That's normal security procedure for any country but it doesn't help convince people that the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth is being related.

In the search of this kind of 'knowledge advantage' these people will believe anything if it provides an alternative explanation that puts their favourite bugbear into question. The upshot is that if you believe a certain agency is a bad thing, you tend to believe bad things about it. The islamic activists already know this - it's why they press the propaganda button at every opportunity. Hitler had asserted that the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it was true. It must be said he ought to know. However that strategy can backfire. The West never did find evidence of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2016 at 03:24
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence-so some smart person wrote.

But there is reason for speculation when we consider some of the feats allegedly accomplished by the ancients, and unable to be explained by modern science. 

I'll keep my options open and wait for more information.



I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2016 at 10:15
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence-so some smart person wrote.

But there is reason for speculation when we consider some of the feats allegedly accomplished by the ancients, and unable to be explained by modern science. 

I'll keep my options open and wait for more information.



Are "aliens" needed to explain ancient feats? I can not think of any good example. If we are in doubt of human ability to make inventions and ingenious solutions, we should also doubt any modern accomplishments. How could humans possible make science like nuclear physics some could ask. Or how could people invent the pc, smartphones, the internet, flying machines, photography or cathedrals. We need "aliens" to explain all that? Not really. So why could not ancient peoples have invented, say pyramids, chinese emperors tombs, aquaducts etcetera. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2016 at 03:02
Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence-so some smart person wrote.

But there is reason for speculation when we consider some of the feats allegedly accomplished by the ancients, and unable to be explained by modern science. 

I'll keep my options open and wait for more information.



Are "aliens" needed to explain ancient feats? I can not think of any good example. If we are in doubt of human ability to make inventions and ingenious solutions, we should also doubt any modern accomplishments. How could humans possible make science like nuclear physics some could ask. Or how could people invent the pc, smartphones, the internet, flying machines, photography or cathedrals. We need "aliens" to explain all that? Not really. So why could not ancient peoples have invented, say pyramids, chinese emperors tombs, aquaducts etcetera. 

Well, apparently they did, but with precision hard to match with modern technology. It seems to me possible that there was perhaps a whole block of ancient skills which were lost, for some reason, for centuries and then "rediscovered".

An example could be the aquaducts built by the Romans and some other ancient peoples, toilets and other sanitary things which never reached Europe until centuries later. Why? The Romans were all over Europe, built their vast temples and other buildings but they never caught on with the locals after Roman departure.

I thinks that there's room for for speculation about ancient inter-terrestrial involvement, as it would, imho, be arrogant of we humans to believe that we are the only intelligent life form in this or any other universe.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2016 at 11:14
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence-so some smart person wrote.

But there is reason for speculation when we consider some of the feats allegedly accomplished by the ancients, and unable to be explained by modern science. 

I'll keep my options open and wait for more information.



Are "aliens" needed to explain ancient feats? I can not think of any good example. If we are in doubt of human ability to make inventions and ingenious solutions, we should also doubt any modern accomplishments. How could humans possible make science like nuclear physics some could ask. Or how could people invent the pc, smartphones, the internet, flying machines, photography or cathedrals. We need "aliens" to explain all that? Not really. So why could not ancient peoples have invented, say pyramids, chinese emperors tombs, aquaducts etcetera. 

Well, apparently they did, but with precision hard to match with modern technology. It seems to me possible that there was perhaps a whole block of ancient skills which were lost, for some reason, for centuries and then "rediscovered".

An example could be the aquaducts built by the Romans and some other ancient peoples, toilets and other sanitary things which never reached Europe until centuries later. Why? The Romans were all over Europe, built their vast temples and other buildings but they never caught on with the locals after Roman departure.

I thinks that there's room for for speculation about ancient inter-terrestrial involvement, as it would, imho, be arrogant of we humans to believe that we are the only intelligent life form in this or any other universe.


Would it be less arrogant to think that peoples of the past were much less  capable than later and contemporary people? I have seen no convincing argument that Romans, the Europeans medieval ancestors, ancient egyptians or even ancient hunter/stonage people were born much less intelligent or capable than us. And I have not yet seen anyone claim that, say, the computer, the automobile, television or smart-phones were not invented by humans, but rather by "aliens".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 02:43
@Fantasus:

Either you're missing my point, or I'm expressing myself poorly. The essence of what I'm saying is that in some cases the ancients possessed skills which modern technology cannot explain or replicate.

It seems to me that that certain skills possessed by the ancients have been lost and later found again, or lost forever.

Perhaps I'm a romanticist in thinking that extraterrestrials just could have visited earth in the past, but my point is that there is no evidence to prove that they didn't, hence "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 13:21
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

@Fantasus:

Either you're missing my point, or I'm expressing myself poorly. The essence of what I'm saying is that in some cases the ancients possessed skills which modern technology cannot explain or replicate.
Do You have anything specific in mind? The Pyramids at Giza? The Great Cathedrals of medieval Europe?
The Great temples of Cambodia and Java? Anything else in particular?
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

It seems to me that that certain skills possessed by the ancients have been lost and later found again, or lost forever.
Could it be that it was lost for some easily explainable reason, like those skills were not needed an more?
Ancient egyptian king may have found out alternatives for great pyramids, like the famous tombs. Later the religion of Egypt changed and the rulers too. That meant much knowledge was lost because it was not longer seemed worth studying or practicing.
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Perhaps I'm a romanticist in thinking that extraterrestrials just could have visited earth in the past, but my point is that there is no evidence to prove that they didn't, hence "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

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While I agree about the later in principle I admit I don´t find aliens as good explanation for anything on earth - so far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 23:48
Let's call them angels and demons.  If angels and demons exist, their presence could alter our perspective of reality so much that we wouldn't know what is real and what is illusion.  An "encounter" would not be "here am I" and "over there are the _obvious_ aliens." in an objective view of them.
In fact would probably be easier to catch aliens in, say, Biblical culture, where everyone has complex clan loyalty or rivalry (but everyone knows the score), vs. modern metropolitan strangers and causal acquaintances, how would one tell what is abnormal in modern setting of blue hair, transgenders (what gender is an alien?), high on god knows what?  Is the "girl" over there an alien? or is just a shemale?  It is not like I am going to check:P
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2016 at 07:33
"We should be open to all possibillities". O.K. but some possible explanations seems litterally far out, and should in my opinion not be the firsst put forward. Oerhaps it could heltp to compare "aliens in history" with "aliens in general". So, let me compare it with aliens as an explanation for crime! We could for the sake of argument claim some contemporary criminal acts are made by "aliens" on earth.  How would police officers, judges, lawyers etcetera take such claims? If there is some unsolved cases would "aliens" then be the first explanation they would think of? For me the answer is: No way. It would require some truly extraordinary case to make them even consider for a moment aliens are involved. So what make people think "aliens" is  such an excellent way to explain things (away) in history or archaeology? But then again I don´t say that never in its 4,5 billion years of existence earth may have been visited or that there could not ever have been any "flyby".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2016 at 02:44
Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

"We should be open to all possibillities". O.K. but some possible explanations seems litterally far out, and should in my opinion not be the firsst put forward. Oerhaps it could heltp to compare "aliens in history" with "aliens in general". So, let me compare it with aliens as an explanation for crime! We could for the sake of argument claim some contemporary criminal acts are made by "aliens" on earth.  How would police officers, judges, lawyers etcetera take such claims? If there is some unsolved cases would "aliens" then be the first explanation they would think of? For me the answer is: No way. It would require some truly extraordinary case to make them even consider for a moment aliens are involved. So what make people think "aliens" is  such an excellent way to explain things (away) in history or archaeology? But then again I don´t say that never in its 4,5 billion years of existence earth may have been visited or that there could not ever have been any "flyby".

I'm not saying that aliens are responsible for anything, just that there are some things that have happened in the far distant past that have no been explained by modern science.

Your reference to crime, I find to be sarcastic and beneath you!

But your final sentence says it all.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2016 at 09:21
If aliens visited earth title could have been at any time. There seems to be no good reason to point at any specific period or any specific activity.
Therefore they could as well be behind what human societies regard as criminal acts as behind anything else. That was the point with my remark about crime.
But I could give another example of what I want to point at. No sarcasm here.
If people in some future become ignorant about the history of the later centuries to this time, they may find it hard to believe many of the things made were of human origin.
From flight to space travel, computers, nuclear physics, et etera how was all this possible?
Still they should, I think, make some research in the history of this age, ours, before making hypothesis about aliens or other exotic agents.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2016 at 12:12
Alien visitation is, until any confirmed and accepted evidence comes to light, a modern superstition no different in concept to ancient and medieval beliefs. Indeed, it seems to fulfil the same cultural context.

In the light of how primitive peoples have been affected by modern industrial societies, the effect of an alien visitation is likely to do us no good whatsoever.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2016 at 05:18
I see no problem with the existence of aliens as a hypothesis.  A kind of 'what if?' as long as people recognize it as such.  For some people, the absence of evidence is, evidence against, in the sense that if we don't see aliens, then it must be that the grand Conspiracy is covering it up.  It is important to realize that there are conspiracies, but there is no grand, all powerful Conspiracy pulling all the strings.

Caldrail, I believe Hawking said something to the same effect regarding visitation.  Of course, another possibility would be 'Contact,' featuring Jodi Foster.  If you are expecting a big sci-fi movie with spaceships in dog fights screaming through space, you will be disappointed.  If you want something plausible, you might find it interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2016 at 13:02
Many prominent experts have said an alien visitation isn't going to be a good thing, and indeed, these fears, along with public panic and the collapse of Christian credibility, are the reasons why the US Military maintain their stance on UFO's and conducted the Project Blue Book to distract attention.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2016 at 17:48
Originally posted by caldrail caldrail wrote:

Many prominent experts have said an alien visitation isn't going to be a good thing, and indeed, these fears, along with public panic and the collapse of Christian credibility, are the reasons why the US Military maintain their stance on UFO's and conducted the Project Blue Book to distract attention.
Perhaps it will not be good, but is that not a question we may answer more by common sense than by listening to "experts"? What credibility should we give to those "expert"? What is the source of such expertise is hard to see. Expertise could come from observation and experiment, but since any record of observation or experimental evidence of "aliens" is controversial in this case we could exclude that source.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2016 at 12:07
These are people with science, history, and sociology qualifications way beyond mine. In any event, we already have case histories of how human societies are affected by visits from more advanced cultures. It isn't difficult to see we'd suffer many of the same changes and issues. People often assume that modern western civilisation is somehow inherently better, secure, or predestined for success - but that's a very egocentric view. Civilisation is thin veneer upon the animal. it quickly peels off.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2016 at 16:59
Originally posted by caldrail caldrail wrote:

These are people with science, history, and sociology qualifications way beyond mine. In any event, we already have case histories of how human societies are affected by visits from more advanced cultures. It isn't difficult to see we'd suffer many of the same changes and issues. People often assume that modern western civilisation is somehow inherently better, secure, or predestined for success - but that's a very egocentric view. Civilisation is thin veneer upon the animal. it quickly peels off.
Still I think we could question their authority, since there is so far no evidence of aliens or what they may be like. It is not there are any different view, simply about admitting we don´t know yet, scientists or not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2016 at 19:02
We like to believe that we see the world, "as it really is."  Oh, sure we will allow that optical or audio illusions exist, but basically we believe in a naive realism.  What you see is what you get.

If you drop a piece of hamburger into a terrarium with a frog, the frog will not eat it.  The frog is not just being a picky eater, if you hook electrodes to his brain, you'll discover that food, for the frog, doesn't exist unless it is moving.  Frogs have three kinds of vision, a general sense of background (so the frog doesn't jump into something), small things moving (like fly), and a sense of where the light decreases because something is swooping down on him.  My point is, the frog has a "blindspot," and my further point is, I am sure that we humans have our blindspots too.  Question is, is our blindspot big enough to hide an alien (or demon, or angel) in (for practical purposes, would they be the same thing)?  I mean, it is the very nature of a blindspot, that those who have it cannot see it.
But I don't see us as able to pronounce that there are, or are not aliens just a frog cannot say how many flies that are motionless (or dead) are in its terrarium.  The absence of evidence is not evidence against, but some people seem to conclude that that must mean the aliens are really tricky and good at hiding. In such an account, the absence of evidence gets twisted and becomes proof of alien cleverness _and_ thus their existence.
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