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American Independence War: too much myth?

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    Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 16:31
Hi, there,

I have been reading an elementary school textbook on the American Independence War, and I have come to realize that it seems that in the U.S. it is hard to get access to popular histories that don't repeat American myths on the event.

I don't fully know everything on the subject, but it seems that you either get your mythology or the real information is found in books that assume a lot more knowledge of the events. It is also hard to get a more accurate picture of the situation because many of the events of 18th century North America are complex and dependent on European events, which often get a passing mention.

There is especially a horrible gap on English history during this period. Only certain issues in England are talked about, mainly those that advance the mythological narrative, and the rest of them are ignored. If the colonists thought of themselves as British, then it would be important to know what was the state of things in England at the time.

Now, the weird part about this is that other eras of American history do have better narratives and accounts for them. It is a lot easier to get good material on the U.S. Civil War, WWII or Vietnam War.

So, why is it so hard to get a more accurate narrative for the American Independence?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 16:41
Because the myth is reckoned more important than the reality. In some ways - in its effect on behaviour and attitudes - it is.
 
The situation isn't very different in most countries, especially with regarrd to national origin myths.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 17:01
It is not difficult to discuss realities in terms of the American Revolution, it is just that you just can not venture into educational syntheses for that purpose. For goodness sakes, the purpose of a history book in an elementary school setting is not that of a high school much less an university. I can just see the looks on the little children if their teacher begins to discuss the Whig Thesis on the American Revolution much less a Beard-like presentation on the economic interests of Virginia planters against the mercantilistic policies of the the British parliament! So what if good old George is busy chopping cherry trees or Davy Crockett is wrestling bears on the way to the Alamo and the Pilgrims are hobnobbing with the "natives". As for the Civil War, you have got to be kidding that such is treated realistically in an "elementary" setting...
 
That John Adams was appalled at the antics of his cousin Sam is hardly a state secret or that Ben forever cut-off his own son is some mysterious exercise of "tough parenting" Hugo, but I doubt the implications of such could be explained rationally to an immature mind. Hence the resort to the mythical is hardly news particularly when you have the Declaration of Independence handy...good heavens you might as well make Tom Jefferson the Father of American national mythology!


Edited by drgonzaga - 27 Jan 2011 at 17:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 17:31
Yes it would kind of be like boring children with evolutionary theory instead of telling them of the bearded man in the sky who made everything.

Complex facts just cannot be presented in an interesting, simplified and balanced form.  ZzzzZZzz
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 20:04
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Yes it would kind of be like boring children with evolutionary theory instead of telling them of the bearded man in the sky who made everything.
 
Reading them the Just So stories is a better idea. Now just how did the elephant get his trunk?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 20:40
Why Gcle everyone knows he acquired his trunk at Louis Vuitton on the Champs Elysees in Paris! Doesn't everyone?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 22:04
Hi, Zagros,

Actually, complex facts can be presented in an interesting and simplified manner. I have just read a collection of them on Greek Army, Red Coats, the U.S. Civil War, and a series of books on WWI. Most of them do a pretty good job.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 22:23
Perhaps you should look outside the US for such books.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 22:40
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:


Perhaps you should look outside the US for such books.


How reliable are such books? Perhaps those that predate the dawn of the atomic era, but after wards bias and prejudice has really taken root with the socialization of history. A little known fact, Morocco was the first state in the world too recognize US independence and is still the US's oldest and closet ally in the Middle East and North Africa.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 22:48
Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

Perhaps you should look outside the US for such books.
How reliable are such books? Perhaps those that predate the dawn of the atomic era, but after wards bias and prejudice has really taken root with the socialization of history. A little known fact, Morocco was the first state in the world too recognize US independence and is still the US's oldest and closet ally in the Middle East and North Africa.

Are you sure? Here they always say the first country to recognize US independence was the Netherlands, Friesland being the first jurisdiction to do so, later followed by the other provinces. Also the first foreign salute to the American flag is said to have been by the Dutch governor of Saint Eustatius and the first American embassy was in The Hague.

Would be possible that it's not true though, now we're talking about myths anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 23:49
Originally posted by Mixcoatl Mixcoatl wrote:

Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

Perhaps you should look outside the US for such books.
How reliable are such books? Perhaps those that predate the dawn of the atomic era, but after wards bias and prejudice has really taken root with the socialization of history. A little known fact, Morocco was the first state in the world too recognize US independence and is still the US's oldest and closet ally in the Middle East and North Africa.

Are you sure? Here they always say the first country to recognize US independence was the Netherlands, Friesland being the first jurisdiction to do so, later followed by the other provinces. Also the first foreign salute to the American flag is said to have been by the Dutch governor of Saint Eustatius and the first American embassy was in The Hague.

Would be possible that it's not true though, now we're talking about myths anyway.


That is rather interesting. Who recognized the US first? I had understood Morocco recognized the US around 1777(?) and the Netherlands by establishing diplomatic relations in 1782. Both countries do indeed have very old and very close relations with the US stretching back to the revolution. Perhaps, for Europe it would be the Netherlands and for North Africa and the Middle East it would be Morocco? However, in the case of the Netherlands, i realize that relations were more personal with the Dutch establishing the New Netherlands territory around the 1620's with a colonial settlement known as New Amsterdam, now known as New York city.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2011 at 13:15

Barbara Tuchman wrote a whole book about it being St Eustatius where the US flag was first saluted. However you start getting into problems if you ask 'what country first recognised the US' because of the problem in defining 'country' as well as 'recognise'. 

The United States did not exist in 1777. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2011 at 14:22
Originally posted by hugoestr hugoestr wrote:

Hi, Zagros,

Actually, complex facts can be presented in an interesting and simplified manner. I have just read a collection of them on Greek Army, Red Coats, the U.S. Civil War, and a series of books on WWI. Most of them do a pretty good job.



Of course they can't Big smile. I think you're just smarter than you realise and apply your own standard of intelligence across the board.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2011 at 15:51
Well, one of those technical points that hardly belongs in an "elementary" school history book has been raised and interestingly enough the first nation to actually despatch a minister resident in the United States and handling government-to-government business was Bourbon Spain in the person of Diego de Gardoqui, who resided first in New York and regularly visited Philadelphia from 1785 to 1789 (he attended the inauguration of Washington in April of 1789 just prior to his return to Spain). The French never had one until the infamous "Citizen" Genet in 1793. Hence they got "beat out" by the English, who had appointed and despatched George Hammond on 5 July 1791. But then one enters the world of the footnote and the trivial here since technically, the British never had an embassy in the United States until Sir Julian Pauncefote in 1893. What is the difference between a minister, a legate and an ambassador?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2011 at 17:30
Well, thank you, Zagros, but I must say that it really is the work of the authors. There is one author illustrator called Peter Connolly who wrote a series of books on different historical armies. His book on "The Greek Armies" is really good.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fence Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2011 at 21:03

Not so much myth. More leaving out some of the facts.

First they say only 30% of the population wanted Independence. The wealthy land owners were among these 30%.

Second, they say if it were not for the Spanish Governor of Louisiana Bernardo de Galvez that chances are the British would have crushed the fight for Independence.


This is what US Park Service wrote about him.

Quote We hear a lot about Lafayette and the French aid to the American colonies, but few people know that Spain was involved as well. So, who was General Galvez, and what role did the Spanish play in the American Revolution?

Quote The emergence of such a man from Spains rigid empire stirs thoughts about such personal elements as chance, destiny, and luck. Unquestionably, Bernardo de Galvez was the right man in the right place at the right time for the United States of America.

For more information on him go to the following site which is where I got the above quotes from. http://www.nps.gov/foma/historyculture/galvez.htm

They say he rode next to Washington in a parade celebrating Independence.

This is what is written on his statue in Washington DC

Quote "Bernardo de Galvez the great Spanish soldier carried out a courageous campaign in lands
bordering the lower Mississippi. This masterpiece of military strategy lightened the pressure of the English in the war against the American settlers who were fighting for their independence.

He also has a statue in Texas and New Orleans Louisiana. Nor sure where else.

Portrait of Bernardo de Galvez.


So it really seems US Independence was possible because of him.



Edited by fence - 31 May 2011 at 21:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2011 at 21:33
And the Independence of Latin America was achieved thanks to the help of the British.... What an irony!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2011 at 21:34
Whatever the truth of Galvez' contributions to the American Revolution, one must be careful when taking history from such as the U.S. Park Service, which like all other government agencies, must bow to the Goddess of political correctness. (People from Spain are classified as 'Hispanic' in the U.S.) Considering what Spain had invested in making the Caribbean secure against England (The post- Seven Years War period was one of massive defense construction in Havana, San Juan de Puerto Rico, and Cartagena de las Indias, to list only the major sites), Galvez' American policies were likely in accord with an overall Spanish imperial policy towards England.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fence Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2011 at 21:49

There are other sources.


This from an article posted in Texas A & M university.


Quote American Revolution and Supply of Texas Beef and Horses.

Under the leadership of General Bernardo de Galvez, governor of Louisiana and later Viceroy of New Spain, for whom Galveston, Texas obtained its name, New Spain reclaimed the Gulf Coast territories of Spanish West Florida (current Florida to the Mississippi River) which had been ceded to Great Britain in the first Treaty of Paris of 1763. Together with George Washingtons American Continental Army on the eastern seaboard and George Rogers Clarks American forces in the West, Spain, New Spain and Texas under General Galvez defeated the British resulting in American Independence. One hears little of the contribution in modern history books.

The first official cattle drive out of Texas was authorized on June 20, 1779 by General Galvez to feed Spanish forces in Louisiana. Over 9000 documented and more than 15000 estimated head of Texas Longhorns herded by Texas cattlemen and vaqueros (both Tejano and Indian) left Texas ranchos between San Antonio de Bexar and La Bahia (Goliad) between 1779 and 1782. The Guadalupe River valley in the heart of future DeWitt Colony was the staging area for these cattle drives that preceded the more well-known drives north from Texas to Kansas, Missouri and Colorado by nearly 100 years and equaled them in magnitude. The area supplied Spanish forces on the Gulf Coast front in the successful fight for American Independence from Britain. Although seldom mentioned in American history books, Spanish forces supplied with Texas beef kept British forces occupied on a vast second front in addition to the American northeast coast, which was believed to be instrumental in defeat of the British and resultant American Independence.


This will take you to the site - http://www.tamu.edu/faculty/ccbn/dewitt/Spaincon.htm



Edited by fence - 31 May 2011 at 21:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2011 at 21:56
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

And the Independence of Latin America was achieved thanks to the help of the British.... What an irony!


You were worth more to them (and to us) as open markets.  Also, relations with distant Latin American republics did not complicate international politics in Europe any longer.

A Spanish empire was a large entity with resources and geographic expanse, and as such, a potential threat.  A bunch of smaller republics without sizable navies did not constitute a threat.




Edited by pikeshot1600 - 31 May 2011 at 22:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2011 at 22:15
You didn't get what I said.
I said Spain helped to break free the U.S. from the claws of Britain,
and in retaliation, Britain helped Lat Am to break free from the claws of Spain.
In short, Europeans screw it up among themselves, allowing the countries of the New World to break free.
(That was before Teddy Roosvelt, of course)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2011 at 22:25
To even imply that Spanish actions between 1777 and 1787 were the product of benevolence towards the "colonials" in their quest for "liberty" (or that the assistance tendered reflected anything other that Spanish policy with respect to the security of the Gulf compromised consequent to the Sever Years War) is being totally unhistorical.
 
The post by Fence included pure fantasy: "They say he rode next to Washington in a parade celebrating Independence."  Galvez had become governor of Louisiana in 1777 and in that post he had already inherited the headaches and tensions of Anglo-Spanish rivalry in the Mississippi Basin. In essence the campaigns he undertook, once war did break out between Britain and Spain in 1779, focused on the elimination of the former astride the maritime lanes of Spanish commerce so as to reconstitute the defense perimeters of an earlier age. There was nothing "altruistic" in these efforts with respect to the nascent United States. His success in West Florida, and later the Bahamas [all co-ordinated from Havana], did result in the return of all of Florida to Spanish rule (the British exchanged East Florida for the return of New Providence) but they also laid the foundations for future US-Spanish tensions in this very region after 1787. But by then Galvez was dead (he dies in Mexico city shortly after becoming the Viceroy of New Spain).
 
Here is an interesting read:
 
 
PS: By the way the question of the U.S. "debt" to Spain touching upon money and supplies tendered the Continental Congress would fester for decades.


Edited by drgonzaga - 31 May 2011 at 22:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2011 at 22:27
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

You didn't get what I said.
I said Spain helped to break free the U.S. from the claws of Britain,
and in retaliation, Britain helped Lat Am to break free from the claws of Spain.
In short, Europeans screw it up among themselves, allowing the countries of the New World to break free.
(That was before Teddy Roosvelt, of course)


HMmmmmmm.....Wink  I see.




Edited by pikeshot1600 - 31 May 2011 at 23:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 02:28
Actually, in my humble opinion, all any real American has to do, is to look within ones self, to reveal the obvious!

I just happen to like the result!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fence Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 21:14

Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

To even imply that Spanish actions between 1777 and 1787 were the product of benevolence towards the "colonials" in their quest for "liberty" (or that the assistance tendered reflected anything other that Spanish policy with respect to the security of the Gulf compromised consequent to the Sever Years War) is being totally unhistorical. 

The post by Fence included pure fantasy: "They say he rode next to Washington in a parade celebrating Independence." Galvez had become governor of Louisiana in 1777 and in that post he had already inherited the headaches and tensions of Anglo-Spanish rivalry in the Mississippi Basin.

You could be more diplomatic about it.

Concerning the benevolence part you said it, I did not. But in the end without his help chances for Independence would have been slim.


And Galvez did ride with Washington after US Independence in a parade.

The following from another different source

Quote The history of the United States includes a number of names and events that are little known among the general public and are directly related to the significant legacy of Hispanics in this country. The Hispanic history of the U.S. was forged by courageous figures such as Soto, Ponce de Leon, Coronado, Menendez de Aviles and many others. It is time to highlight the events and honor the people who contributed to our rich culture and to explain the importance of the Spanish, and by extension, Hispanic role in the history of the United States.

George Washington himself recognized the Spanish contribution when he wrote to King Carlos III of Spain after the War of Independence to thank him for the aid he had received from Spain during the fight for freedom. Washington was well aware that the Spanish Crown held a vast amount of territory throughout the Americas, from Patagonia to Alaska, and that the Spanish had been present in the New World for centuries.

Washington understood that not only had Spanish explorers and missionaries shed their blood and made great sacrifices during those years, but that Spain had also contributed money and manpower to the American Revolution. The revolt against the British Crown was possible thanks, in part, to the funds sent by Spain and the participation of the Spanish in the New World. There were Spanish settlements from Mexico to Alaska, including many in what are today the states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California, to name just a few.

Spain clandestinely helped the colonists until war was formally declared on England in June, 1779. This aid began before the promulgation of the Declaration of Independence on July 4, 1776. The Spanish Count of Aranda met with Benjamin Franklin, Silas Dean and Arthur Lee at the Continental Congress and gave his total support to the colonialists cause. Spain then made use of its territories in Cuba, Mexico, Santo Domingo and Puerto Rico to join forces with the colonists against the English.

In the silenced history of the Spanish role in the American struggle for independence, we find a generally unknown Spanish soldier named Bernardo de Galvez (1746-1786). His valor on the battlefield in the Lower Mississippi basin was pivotal to General Washingtons ultimate victory. In addition to the Mississippi campaign, Galvezs conquest of Western Florida was a masterpiece of military strategy which advanced the cause of the American colonists fight for independence. Even before Spain became officially involved in the war with the English, Galvez had already provided assistance to the American patriots. He corresponded directly with Patrick Henry, Thomas Jefferson and Charles Henry Lee and met with their personal emmisaries, Oliver Pollack and Capitan George Gibson. In these meetings, Galvez agreed to help secure the New Orleans harbor.

In addition to diplomatic and economic aid to the colonists, Galvez also provided military assistance in many skirmishes with the English from Florida to Louisiana and all along the Gulf Coast. In his role as Governor of Lousiana, Galvez was a strong ally for Washington and his troops. He worked clandestinely from New Orleans to support the colonists struggle and fought alongside them in battles in what are today Florida, Alabama, Louisiana and Texas. He gave material support to those fighting to the west of the Alleghany Mountains and was able to block English access to the Mississippi. All of these efforts contributed greatly to the success of the Revolution.

In the years 1776-1779, Spain gave the colonists some 8 million reales to cover military, medical and general supplies. In September 1776, Spain shipped 9,000 pounds of gun powder up the Mississippi to the northern colonies and another 1,000 pounds to Philadelphia. In November, Galvez gathered strategic information on the English and in December petitioned the Spanish Crown for more aid to the colonists.

The three letters that Patrick Henry wrote to Galvez between October 1777 and January 1778 in which he repeatedly thanked him for his assistance are convincing proof of Spains tremendous support of the colonists cause. In the summer of 1779, Spain declared war against England and Galvez quickly became key to Washingtons interests, achieving significant victories in the South at places such as Fort Butte, Baton Rouge and Natchez. In November 1779, Thomas Jefferson wrote Galvez a letter of appreciation.


In early 1780, Galvez retook Mobile and in May of 1781, Pensacola fell. Three months later, Washington toasted the kings of France and Spain in the Robert Morris residence in Philadelphia. After the surrender of Yorktown in October 1781, Washington himself wrote a letter to King Carlos III of Spain thanking him for the aid and support he had received from the Spanish crown. In the colonists victory parade, Galvez rode alongside Washington, proof of the important role Spain had played in the fight for independence of the United States.

Any reasonable historian today recognizes that without the help of Spain in the southern part of what is today the United States, the English would have defeated the colonists and brought the great American Revolution to an end. This is why in 1784 the Congress of the United States formally thanked Galvez and Spain for the aid and support they provided. Galvez died in Mexico in 1786, one year after being appointed Viceroy of New Spain. His life and his accomplishments are an example of the many little known elements of the great legacy of Hispanics in the United States.

Newt Gingrich is a Former Speaker of the House of Representatives in the U.S. Congress. Alberto Acereda is a Professor at Arizona State University.

Got information from this site - http://www.spain-florida.org/legado.php?lang=en&idSel=35



Edited by fence - 01 Jun 2011 at 21:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 22:35
Distuinduido Verja (Fence). in re: "In the silenced history of the Spanish role in the American struggle for independence..."

Oh, please. And who, pray tell "silenced" this history?  Someone had to do it. Ah, esos malditos gringos, quienes no quieren que 'el Puebo' sepa la verdad.  Yes, it's all an Anglo plot to keep the truth from being known. I wonder if Newt really read that through before he signed it as author.

ps, the Doc said "to even imply..."  Which you unerringly did. He did not say "you said..."


Edited by lirelou - 01 Jun 2011 at 22:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 22:55
Even a Louisiana schoolboy of the 1950s knows more about Bernardo de Galvez (back in the 1950s, Louisiana history was a requirement in the schools) than either Newt Gingrich or Acereda and if Alberto Acereda penned any of that laudatory crap about Galvez and Washington "riding together" he should be removed from the Arizona State History faculty! Oops, I forget he's not a historian but one of those "culture" folks with expertise on Ruben Dario! A degree in philology does not make you an expert on History. Besides the cite you are referencing belongs to "Heritage Week" claptrap akin to Smithsonian Exhibitions and symposiums, eg:
 
 
Some of the pitfalls (into which you have apparently fallen) can be found here:
 
 
But one fact sticks out Galvez never met Washington much less rode with him in any parade! To claim otherwise is bunkum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 03:20
Originally posted by lirelou lirelou wrote:


Oh, please. And who, pray tell "silenced" this history?  Someone had to do it. Ah, esos malditos gringos, quienes no quieren que 'el Puebo' sepa la verdad.  Yes, it's all an Anglo plot to keep the truth from being known....


I always suspected it....

Do you guys have a historical rewriting department, 1984 style? They have done a hell of good job! congrats.




Edited by pinguin - 02 Jun 2011 at 03:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 05:07
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by lirelou lirelou wrote:


Oh, please. And who, pray tell "silenced" this history?  Someone had to do it. Ah, esos malditos gringos, quienes no quieren que 'el Puebo' sepa la verdad.  Yes, it's all an Anglo plot to keep the truth from being known....


I always suspected it....

Do you guys have a historical rewriting department, 1984 style? They have done a hell of good job! congrats.


 
ROTFLMAO! When it comes to historical "rewrites" the Penguin rapes Clio shamelessly...guess the "Gorillas" taught him well...
 
PS: Documentary proof of the above is safely sealed in Argentina.


Edited by drgonzaga - 02 Jun 2011 at 05:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 14:07
What would be of history without rewriting and selective picking what is convenient.
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