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American racism

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    Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 13:58
Hi, there,

Yet another fork thread.

Here we shall discuss American racism and its history.

First things first, so that we can get this out of the way: racism is wrong, and it was wrong for Americans to be racists in the past, and to institutionalize it. We all agree on that, I believe.

That said, now we can pursue its historical roots, and how it manifested itself at different times.

We can start with how being of African descent became associated with slavery. Also, how the institution of slavery created a racist culture where it existed, and how did racism developed in areas where slavery was weak or abolished.

Obviously racism against African Americans is the biggest issue, but there was also prejudice against Germans, Italians, Catholic Irish, Jewish people, Polish people, Scots-Irish, Mexicans, Chinese, Japanese, etc.

We can also talk about those cases.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 14:53
On the whole, there are two types of racism: ideological and casual.

Ideological racism stems from political, religious, or biological ideas that some human populations are inferior to others and should be segregated under ALL conditions, regardless of their achievements, wealth, or education. Examples include the American treatment of blacks and the Nazi treatment of Jews.

Casual racism stems from the prejuidice of everyday experience. The victims are usually ethnic groups who underperform both socially and economically, or who are frequently involved in crime. Due to the negative stereotypes, members of these ethnic groups often face unfair treatment in employment, housing, or marriage. However, once that the ethnic group makes progress and rises up in society, much of the prejuidice may dissappear.
In the USA, most of the racism against immigrant nationalities, such as Irish, Italians, Jews, Polish, Mexican, Salvadorean, Philipino, Japanese, Chinese... are of this type.

I read study somewhere that today, most of the Latinos and Asians who live in segregated neighbourhoods are those of low socio-economic status. Once they become middle-class they move into the typical American middleclass neighbourhoods and few neighbours would ever complain about them, as long as they "act" middleclass.
Many African-Americans, however, live in segregated neighbourhoods regardless of economic status. Even middle-class blacks very often live in segregated neighbourhoods.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 16:01
I'm curious about how much prejudice the Irish faced in America in the 19th century. I've read before that the signs in front of guesthouses and restaurants saying 'no dogs, no blacks, no irish' are largely a myth. Any truth to this?
http://xkcd.com/15/



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 16:11
f**k black people they are racist pieces of sh*t . They don't deserve any special treatment in fact maybe it time for whites to organize to show these black people their place.Black people are assholes who always talk about slavery like they lived through the sh*t and act like white people prevent them from doing stuff. I can't stand blacks; i'll never live next to a black person, do a black person a favor or give them anything as long as i live. I think blacks are scum through and through they don't deserve to even call themselves american. They are loud, rude idiotic people.

I've never met a black person i liked except one black dude who was alright for a while until he started bringing up slavery so i punched him in his big lips and knocked him out and left him there in the street like the punk he was.


Edited by Joe - 08 Feb 2011 at 16:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 16:14
Originally posted by Joe Joe wrote:

f**k black people they are racist pieces of sh*t . They don't deserve any special treatment in fact maybe it time for whites to organize to show these black people their place.Black people are assholes who always talk about slavery like they lived through the sh*t and act like white people prevent them from doing stuff. I can't stand blacks; i'll never live next to a black person, do a black person a favor or give them anything as long as i live. I think blacks are scum through and through they don't deserve to even call themselves american. They are loud, rude idiotic people.


Here we have a good example of American racism :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Joe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 16:16
Originally posted by calvo calvo wrote:

Originally posted by Joe Joe wrote:

f**k black people they are racist pieces of sh*t . They don't deserve any special treatment in fact maybe it time for whites to organize to show these black people their place.Black people are assholes who always talk about slavery like they lived through the sh*t and act like white people prevent them from doing stuff. I can't stand blacks; i'll never live next to a black person, do a black person a favor or give them anything as long as i live. I think blacks are scum through and through they don't deserve to even call themselves american. They are loud, rude idiotic people.


Here we have a good example of American racism :)

Hey if you live where i live you'd see that this is truth. Black people have zero redeeming qualities. I'm not racist I just pick white people over blacks any day as I'm white and black people are all racist pieces of rude loud trash.


Edited by Joe - 08 Feb 2011 at 16:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 16:18
Originally posted by Joe Joe wrote:

f**k black people they are racist pieces of sh*t . They don't deserve any special treatment in fact maybe it time for whites to organize to show these black people their place.Black people are assholes who always talk about slavery like they lived through the sh*t and act like white people prevent them from doing stuff. I can't stand blacks; i'll never live next to a black person, do a black person a favor or give them anything as long as i live. I think blacks are scum through and through they don't deserve to even call themselves american. They are loud, rude idiotic people.

I've never met a black person i liked except one black dude who was alright for a while until he started bringing up slavery so i punched him in his big lips and knocked him out and left him there in the street like the punk he was.

Joe, you really must be a bigger loon than I thought Smile

How can you talk about "Blacks" as a homogenous group all apparently displaying the same characteristics? 

What a strange collection of assertions you are.



Edited by Dolphin - 08 Feb 2011 at 16:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 16:22
Right and until you point out a black person that doesn't bring up slavery and act like they lived through out I'll keep my opinion about black people. That will never change the only BLACK FRIEND I"VE EVER HAD brought up slavery in my home and accused people i know and love of being racist. How am I not suppose to knock him out? All blacks are racist scum; I have never met one black person EVER who didn't eventually bring up slavery like they actually lived through it. Slavery ended 140 plus years ago its time for blacks to grow up. I mean theres a black as president and blacks still claim white racism is prevelant and bring up slavery CONSTANTLY something they didn't even live through. They are racist rude assholes with a chip on their shoulders about something they didn't even experience. I had a social psychology teacher whom was black and the moment we got to the racism part all she did was talk about white people being racist. That was it; until i brought up farrakhan and even accused her of being a member of the nation of islam. She said the guy was a good person whilst saying the KKK is bad? No matter how proffessional or ghetto the black person is they will always have a chip on their shoulder and act like they lived through something that ended 150 years ago. Its time for black people to grow up. I'll fight any black person in my town who has a problem with that and i'll say it to there faces. So when was the last time a white person prevented you from doing something? Never? exactly!!!


Edited by Joe - 08 Feb 2011 at 16:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 16:27
Joe,

Let's put it this way.
Everyone favours some nationalities/ethnicities over others, but to make generalizing statements such as what you just did is an example of racism.

Generally speaking, I prefer not to have Gypsy neighbours because of their reputation as loud, dirty, who keep hens in their flats. However, I have absolutely no problem living nextdoor to a Gypsy family who is hardworking, respectful, and well-integrated.
Therefore, I would never say: "I'd never let a Gypsy live nextdoor to me." because not everybody lives up to their ethnic stereotype.

I don't think it's a matter of what colour, nationality, or bloodline you have, but whether you have respect for others. And if you discriminate an individual based on the reputation of his ethnic group, this is pure racism.




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Are you real, Joe?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 16:37
I don't mind black people but its just I have yet to meet a black person who didn't bring up slavery like they actually were there; except one now that i think about it who said and I quote "I'm glad white people took us here cause Africa sucks I've been there" and that was in high school but I never met him. Yeah what i said is a generalization and is out there but its how i feel 9/10 times black people refer to white people as "They can't fight" " pussies" "white women are hoes" and bring up slavery like they lived through. I live in an inner city neighborhood will all kinds of blacks every where and honest to god every single one of them is a racist. Every single one has something critical to say about "White people" and experiences with white people they have never actually experienced. Like preventing them from drinking from water fountains. How many stupid movies have been made "They were the first all black team and ETC ETC ETC" . I mean there was that stupid cuba gooding movie in which he wanted to be a scuba diver, that stupid movie coach carter is with Sam jackson, that basketball movie. More black people are racist because of things they never experienced. All blacks are racist where I live every one of them. So for me to make generalized statements is the feeling of the whites in the towns where i live. Though this one black dude did drink an entire bottle of grey goose with me and it was for free so he was pretty cool i think i was at a night club.


Edited by Joe - 08 Feb 2011 at 17:04
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Just because one person is an idiot, one is hardly justified in concluding that all who share some minimal superficial characteristics are also idiots. That some individuals or groups are forever fascinated by the negative does not permit one to alter their own humanity in reaction to this folderol by behaving likewise. Leave the fools of all kind to their own goblins insofar as they do not threaten the very existence of goodness.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 16:47

Quote Casual racism stems from the prejuidice of everyday experience. The victims are usually ethnic groups who underperform both socially and economically


Or overperform.
"There was glory in pissing, Corabb decided as he watched the stream curve out and make that familiar but unique sound as it hit the ground." So true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 17:05
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Just because one person is an idiot, one is hardly justified in concluding that all who share some minimal superficial characteristics are also idiots. That some individuals or groups are forever fascinated by the negative does not permit one to alter their own humanity in reaction to this folderol by behaving likewise. Leave the fools of all kind to their own goblins insofar as they do not threaten the very existence of goodness.  

That is also a very true statement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 17:57
I have a picture in my mind of how I imagine Joe to look. It isn't flattering.
http://xkcd.com/15/



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 18:45
Originally posted by Parnell Parnell wrote:

I have a picture in my mind of how I imagine Joe to look. It isn't flattering.

You might be surprised but i never post pics online.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 19:02
My guess Wink:




OR, more flatteringly:




Edited by Dolphin - 08 Feb 2011 at 19:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 19:14
Hmm are you going for a prominent "brow-ridge" effect Dolphin in the latter pic? Nevertheless keep in mind that there is always an element of truth even in the most outlandish propositions. 
 
Guess it's time to move this thread to The Tavern...


Edited by drgonzaga - 08 Feb 2011 at 19:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 19:18
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Hmm are you going for a prominent "brow-ridge" effect Dolphin in the latter pic?
 
Guess it's time to move this thread to The Tavern...

In choosing these pictures I have employed a degree of scientific rigour even the phrenologists would be proud of..i.e. I googled key terms and browsed until one fitted. I thought the first guy had an anger mixed with an unstableness that I liked, the second guy has that unquantifiable boorish charm written all over his face.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 19:25
Okay, I'm sorry for hijacking the thread. Oops, it's just seemed to be going that way. 

Again, sorry.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 19:41


This is essentially my opinion.


Edited by Joe - 08 Feb 2011 at 19:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Birddog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 20:07
I've had simlar experiance to Joe, but not in America. The reverse rasist stuff came from people in a low social economic area who were almost completely powerless to change their situation so they lashed out against white people, even white people who worked beside them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 20:33

I'm sure every race has racists within it. However, this thread is about American racism about which I'm not so well-informed as I am about racism in other parts of the world.

Still it is obvious that Joe is a perfect example of the subject, though as Dr G warns us, we shouldn't let the example of one fool mislead us into identifying the whole group as fools.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 20:37
I still think that Joe is not kidding us around. In the thread on Black confederates, which this is a fork from, his talk was against racists, yet now he presents himself as a racist.

Do you live under bridges by any chance?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Birddog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 20:42
I put my thread up saying I know where Joe is coming from. It's not nice being call a rasist white bastard my some person on the street or in your house. Or being called a rasist because you don't agree with a coloured persons opinion.
I was also say the rasist people who called me a white bastard because I didn't agree with their opinion or wore clean clothes or wouldn't lend them $5 dollars to buy a beer and I should because I worked in their town were people from a low social economic background and lashed out against white people because they felt powerless to change their situation. How many black people living in American Gettos feel the same way and react in the same way? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 20:52
Like I said there are racists in all races. Its not nice being on the end of racial discrimination and abuse.
 
I certainly would never argue that blacks were better than whites, or make any other such idiotic statement. I don't even think the black/white dichotomy is particularly important. American racism is just as much a matter of Indian/white, black/Indian, hispanic/black,  hispanic/Indian, hispanic/white and black/white,
 
And that's just sticking with the main four groups  usually described as 'races'. From the point of view of the thread, I think the divisions regarding Irish, Jews, Italians and so on probably can be left out, because they probably originally had much less to do with 'race' than with religion.
 
Where there's no racial division to discriminate on it doesn't usually take long for humanity to come up with an alternative. The need for some people to have a way to mark themselves out as 'better' than someone else appears to be too great.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Birddog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 20:58
Is it at all possible that African Americans from a low social economic group who feel powerless to change their situation lash out at the wider community by calling white people rasist and slave owners and blaming whites for all their problems? This causes a counter reaction in the white comunity where they consider the African Americans as lazy bigoted people who don't carry their weight in the community and live off the sweat of the white people?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 21:07
Hey! This is a thread on American racism as a subject, not as a forum to exercise it .

If you guys wish to express your prejudices, you are always welcome in stormfront.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 21:07

Racists on both sides look down on the other usually because they feel themselves losers and need someone else to dump their inferiority feelings on. To some extent there is a revival of blatant racism in the US to accompany the growing rise in unemployment and firings and mortgage foreclosures and so on, as the US soi-disant 'middle class' gets poorer and is looking for an excuse.

Of course, 'blatant racism' includes calling theother side racist, in a continuation of the juvenile endlcess exchange of 'you are with 'No you are'. Or 'You started it' 'No you did' and so on.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Birddog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 21:12
In what way am I exercising prejudices? I'm trying to ask about the econmic and social implications of American racisim.
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