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Another unnecessary war?

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    Posted: 03 Sep 2013 at 23:19
Is Obama administration heading for another unnecessary war? If that is true then I won't vote for democrats again. Another war will be serious blow to our weak economy. Let Syrians fight their own war. Any other war without UN support will be unnecessary. England has already pulled back from such a plan. Let Arabs and Turkey help them. We should focus on our own economy and pull out of Afghanistan as Obama promised us.

Edited by Harburs - 03 Sep 2013 at 23:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2013 at 03:47
I flat out refuse to believe Assad used chemical weapons. He has been steadily winning the war using conventional weapons and was set to continue. He is an intelligent man and knows perfectly well that using chemical weapons is just rolling out the red carpet for outside intervention. It makes no sense for him to do it. So I don't believe he did.

The more I see of the Syrian opposition the more I come to believe they are increasingly composed of fundamentalists who are not even Syrian. If they win I predict atrocities all round for the Druze, Alawite, Christian and Shia communities in Syria.

As 'the West' (which I appointed myself titular emperor of this morning), I believe this is a Syrian matter and should be left to the Syrians. If we aid either side we are likely to be helping a group committing widespread abuses, and so our own integrity is compromised. Let the Syrians fight their own war on their terms and be content with the result. The only humane thing we can really do is assist the civilian refugees.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2013 at 03:54
Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

Unfortunately, it looks like we are. Why? Its the influence game. Especially not that reports are coming out that in 2007 the US started this in the first place. 
Well, I guess it was kinda obvious it came out of US in 2007. Putting that aside, I hope Obama comes to his senses and backs off from such a reckless action. He has already committed two big mistakes. 1. Middling in Libya 2. Supporting Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood. Both turned out with disastrous results. Libyan Jihadist fanatics killed our ambassador and ruined Libyans' hope of a better future. Muslim Brotherhood brushed away their nationalist and secular allies and started an Islamic regime which didn't last for so much and was toppled by the Egyptian military. Again and again, it shows that our government doesn't know much about the regional politics of ME and makes mistake after mistake. Why should we middle in ME when we end up as bad guy and making people's lives like a living hell? We would better back off and solve our own problems first. How many Americans are living with out proper job, food, shelter or education? Solve them first then go after the foreigners! FIRST AMERICANS, THEN OTHERS!

Edited by Harburs - 04 Sep 2013 at 04:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2013 at 04:47
Originally posted by Constantine XI Constantine XI wrote:

I flat out refuse to believe Assad used chemical weapons. He has been steadily winning the war using conventional weapons and was set to continue. He is an intelligent man and knows perfectly well that using chemical weapons is just rolling out the red carpet for outside intervention. It makes no sense for him to do it. So I don't believe he did.
 

I had the same opinion not so long ago, but after reading many articles I doubt about it. Assad might have done it if he is crazy or extremely paranoid. Deutsche Welle has reported that a German intelligence agency had wire tapped a conversation between a high ranking hizbollah official and an Iranian diplomat at Iranian embassy in Lebanon. Apparently, the Hizbollah official has confirmed that crazy Assad has done it. There are also reports off satellite photos that show missiles were fired up from region under Assad control to opposition camp.

Originally posted by Constantine XI Constantine XI wrote:


The more I see of the Syrian opposition the more I come to believe they are increasingly composed of fundamentalists who are not even Syrian. If they win I predict atrocities all round for the Druze, Alawite, Christian and Shia communities in Syria.
 

I totally agree with you, but I think most of nationalist opposition groups have less financial and militaristic support, consequently, they have less power in shaping the future of Syria.

Originally posted by Constantine XI Constantine XI wrote:


As 'the West' (which I appointed myself titular emperor of this morning), I believe this is a Syrian matter and should be left to the Syrians. If we aid either side we are likely to be helping a group committing widespread abuses, and so our own integrity is compromised. Let the Syrians fight their own war on their terms and be content with the result. The only humane thing we can really do is assist the civilian refugees.
 

Again agree with you. We need to stay out of this mess and can only help the refugees. Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Qatar, Iran and Iraq should experience the bitter taste of their own medicine (middling in Syria) by taking some of these refugees in and accepting their expenses. Turkey learnt some lessons not so long ago, but Erdogan is going to ignore that and exploit the situation to overcome his local opponents at home.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2013 at 05:41
Originally posted by Harburs Harburs wrote:

I had the same opinion not so long ago, but after reading many articles I doubt about it. Assad might have done it if he is crazy or extremely paranoid. Deutsche Welle has reported that a German intelligence agency had wire tapped a conversation between a high ranking hizbollah official and an Iranian diplomat at Iranian embassy in Lebanon. Apparently, the Hizbollah official has confirmed that crazy Assad has done it. There are also reports off satellite photos that show missiles were fired up from region under Assad control to opposition camp.


That's interesting but I am still reluctant to believe an apparently sensible person would do something so contrary to his own interests. I have no way of knowing whether any of the examples you quoted above were made up by those who want an invasion. And I can't help but remember back to Colin Powell being sent before the UN to claim he had solid evidence of the same things in Iraq. It will be interesting to see the evidence of what is really happening in 10 years from the clear perspective of peace and hindsight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2013 at 05:48
Also, American Republicans must be feeling justifiably self righteous at the moment. The man they didn't want to be President and promised change instead intensifies the invasion of privacy of his own people and interferes militarily in even more countries than GWB.

You can cast your vote, but it only changes the colour of the curtain. The little man behind it remains firmly where he is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2013 at 06:20
Ah yes, one's view of the world changes once they're in the Oval Office. But, is it hypocrisy or finally getting realistic?

A lot of people here feel that Arabs killing Arabs is a good thing and should be encouraged. Others claiming more humanist souls feel that we should have been helping the Syrian resistance two years ago. The reality is that the use of chemical weapons has been banned by treaty. Yet certain states have used them on occasion, generally against unarmed segments of their own population. So, who is to bell the cat? The United Nations? They don't have the votes to do so, which raises the question: Why do we even have such a pretentious organization? What about a self-appointed coalition? Yes, but under what authority will they act? We can do it, so we will. Meanwhile the dwarf nations of the world will stand by and snivel that someone is throwing their weight around on some poor helpless but ruthless dictatorship.

It's so much more noble to dither while people are being massacred. There are far more important issues, like cameras in the sky that might catch us dallying in the rye with the miller's daughter, or flirting over the phone with the babysitter. Let's organize and rail against those important issues and to Hell with all these victims of Assad's gas attacks. They deserved what they got just for being Syrians who wanted a voice in their government.

My disgust is that we're self-flagellating over the issue while people die. If we have a principle to defend, then let's state it and get in there. Hit the regime fast and hard to the point that it has nothing left but small arms. Then step back and let the mess clean itself up. And if it doesn't, hit it again. Sooner or later, maybe they'll get the message.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2013 at 07:02
Originally posted by Constantine XI Constantine XI wrote:

Originally posted by Harburs Harburs wrote:

I had the same opinion not so long ago, but after reading many articles I doubt about it. Assad might have done it if he is crazy or extremely paranoid. Deutsche Welle has reported that a German intelligence agency had wire tapped a conversation between a high ranking hizbollah official and an Iranian diplomat at Iranian embassy in Lebanon. Apparently, the Hizbollah official has confirmed that crazy Assad has done it. There are also reports off satellite photos that show missiles were fired up from region under Assad control to opposition camp.


That's interesting but I am still reluctant to believe an apparently sensible person would do something so contrary to his own interests. I have no way of knowing whether any of the examples you quoted above were made up by those who want an invasion. And I can't help but remember back to Colin Powell being sent before the UN to claim he had solid evidence of the same things in Iraq. It will be interesting to see the evidence of what is really happening in 10 years from the clear perspective of peace and hindsight.
 

Whatever the truth might be I am against any US intervention. We need to stop playing the role of world police. We do not want more money for weapon manufactorers or destruction. We need to build our own economy, finance our research programs, and educate our youth (no more funds for money drains in ME). I do understand the misery of the Syrian people but our middling will not solve the problem but make it more complicated and worse. There are reports that the number of Syrians who leave the country daily have been increased by several folds because of the fear of our invasion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2013 at 07:07
Originally posted by Constantine XI Constantine XI wrote:

Also, American Republicans must be feeling justifiably self righteous at the moment. The man they didn't want to be President and promised change instead intensifies the invasion of privacy of his own people and interferes militarily in even more countries than GWB.

You can cast your vote, but it only changes the colour of the curtain. The little man behind it remains firmly where he is.
I bet it is their plan to ruin Obama's prestige. They are pushing for it at senate. Later on they will blame Democrats for this messy decisions. Obama should not bend to warmongers wills. Well I will rather vote and contribute, to stay aside and nag about the government all the time. I know what you say may be true in high levels of decision making but at lower levels there are some hopes left for us who living in more democratic countries compared to others.

Edited by Harburs - 04 Sep 2013 at 07:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2013 at 07:17
@ lirelou: The age of heroism is over. A person can give hand to someone if he has the time and resources. A person who is in debt up to his neck, should take care of his own family to survive not to waste his money on a gambling situation. If you think we can stand another war without sacrificing thousands of Americans lives, jobs, families or possibly jeopardizing the future of our children, then you need a reality check. We have to make a decision now, either our own people safety or the  foreigners.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2013 at 02:12
Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

We did that in Lybia and look what happened there. Lierrou our government knowingly supports these types of shady regimes. Why would we put more Islamists in Syria?
Amen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2013 at 02:39
There must be an easier way to get rid of psychopathic dictators. Perhaps, advanced drones programmed to kill them wherever they hide. Authorized by the U.N., of course.
Let's hope one day only democratic countries have representatives in the United Nations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paradigm of Humanity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2013 at 15:08
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Let's hope one day only democratic countries have representatives in the United Nations.

Why? The UN itself is undemocratic anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2013 at 22:59
Originally posted by Paradigm of Humanity Paradigm of Humanity wrote:

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Let's hope one day only democratic countries have representatives in the United Nations.

Why? The UN itself is undemocratic anyway.
As long as there is a veto rule UN is not entirely democratic. We also need to look at it from this side, what if there was no UN at all. This organization has helped millions of people and actually has solved many conflicts, so it is something necessary and positive, but not Ideal. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2013 at 07:21
Interestingly the US has accused Assad of perpetrating the attack, with the investigatory team claiming it took place in Damascus.

Assad holds Damascus, why would he gas his own strongest city which is filled with his supporters? Wouldn't the best use of sarin gas be against enemy troops fighting amidst the rubble of contested cities like Aleppo?

It seems more likely to be the work of the rebels. Only to them would it make sense to fire poison gas into a place like Damascus.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paradigm of Humanity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2013 at 07:54
Originally posted by Harburs Harburs wrote:


 As long as there is a veto rule UN is not entirely democratic. We also need to look at it from this side, what if there was no UN at all. This organization has helped millions of people and actually has solved many conflicts, so it is something necessary and positive, but not Ideal. 

The UN established to preserve domination and protection of interests of the victors of WWII. I don't see any radical shift from that point.

The UN cannot be anything more than mere extension of foreign policy of member states in a world where Machiavelism dominates foreign policy of nations. The UN do not exists as a seperate entity and its factions on almost every matter bind together by self interest (of politicians not states), not by ethics nor democracy.

Edited by Paradigm of Humanity - 06 Sep 2013 at 07:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2013 at 07:22
Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

Unfortunately, it looks like we are. Why? Its the influence game. Especially not that reports are coming out that in 2007 the US started this in the first place. 


How is that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2013 at 07:40
Originally posted by Constantine XI Constantine XI wrote:

I flat out refuse to believe Assad used chemical weapons. He has been steadily winning the war using conventional weapons and was set to continue. He is an intelligent man and knows perfectly well that using chemical weapons is just rolling out the red carpet for outside intervention. It makes no sense for him to do it. So I don't believe he did.


It is too soon in saying who did this. Some say the rebels did it, now reports are coming out saying that Syrian forces did it without Assad's orders. It is all hear say until more conclusive evidence is revealed.

Quote
The more I see of the Syrian opposition the more I come to believe they are increasingly composed of fundamentalists who are not even Syrian. If they win I predict atrocities all round for the Druze, Alawite, Christian and Shia communities in Syria.


The rebels started with good intentions. Let's be honest, Assad is a brutal dictator and a butcher and it has never surprised me that he would fight relentlessly to hold onto power. What would have surprised me is if he had shown the intelligence to try and end the uprising by talks and compromise. But now due to proximity of cause, the rebel groups have been tainted by Al Qaeda and supporting terrorist groups, making them no better than Assad and his forces. If the rebels prevail, than the rebel moderates will have hell to pay by not cleaning the vipers from their nest and as you say, atrocities will indeed continue as the rebel moderates try to take back their country from the scum they turned a blind eye too. If Assad prevails, atrocities will still happen as the foreign fighters flee and the Syrian rebels deal with the consequences of their actions. It will be a massacre.

Quote
As 'the West' (which I appointed myself titular emperor of this morning), I believe this is a Syrian matter and should be left to the Syrians. If we aid either side we are likely to be helping a group committing widespread abuses, and so our own integrity is compromised. Let the Syrians fight their own war on their terms and be content with the result. The only humane thing we can really do is assist the civilian refugees.


Here is something most people fail in considering, The West can ignore what is going on in Syria, but it won't make any difference in stopping all the outside interference from foreign Muslim fighters to the Iranian government supportive military and prestige in seeing Assad prevail from said aid. From my analyses, this has never been a solely Syrian affair.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2013 at 07:48
Originally posted by Constantine XI Constantine XI wrote:

Also, American Republicans must be feeling justifiably self righteous at the moment. The man they didn't want to be President and promised change instead intensifies the invasion of privacy of his own people and interferes militarily in even more countries than GWB.

You can cast your vote, but it only changes the colour of the curtain. The little man behind it remains firmly where he is.


Some are, i am not. I kind of expected this and have never been completely disappointed in what i thought might happen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2013 at 07:51
Originally posted by Harburs Harburs wrote:


I bet it is their plan to ruin Obama's prestige. They are pushing for it at senate. Later on they will blame Democrats for this messy decisions. Obama should not bend to warmongers wills. Well I will rather vote and contribute, to stay aside and nag about the government all the time. I know what you say may be true in high levels of decision making but at lower levels there are some hopes left for us who living in more democratic countries compared to others. [/QUOTE]

I don't think Obama needs much help in tarnishing his prestige. I believe he is doing very well in tarnishing it on his very own.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2013 at 07:57
Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

We did that in Lybia and look what happened there. Lierrou our government knowingly supports these types of shady regimes. Why would we put more Islamists in Syria?


No, the US hands aren't exactly clean, but then look at all the other foreign governments out there substantially contributing their parts in the situations around the middle east by making it the dirty place that it is. As long as we focus purely on the US (Which i am not totally arguing against), we are not going to learn jack crap about why things are transpiring as they are!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2013 at 08:01
Originally posted by Harburs Harburs wrote:

  As long as there is a veto rule UN is not entirely democratic. We also need to look at it from this side, what if there was no UN at all. This organization has helped millions of people and actually has solved many conflicts, so it is something necessary and positive, but not Ideal. 


Interesting enough, the veto came into existence to solely deny the USSR more unfair votes it was trying to get for itself back at the time of the UN's establishment. The world powers of the time were trying too make an equitable best of deteriorating situation that soon came to be known as the cold war.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2013 at 08:02
Originally posted by Constantine XI Constantine XI wrote:

Interestingly the US has accused Assad of perpetrating the attack, with the investigatory team claiming it took place in Damascus.

Assad holds Damascus, why would he gas his own strongest city which is filled with his supporters? Wouldn't the best use of sarin gas be against enemy troops fighting amidst the rubble of contested cities like Aleppo?

It seems more likely to be the work of the rebels. Only to them would it make sense to fire poison gas into a place like Damascus.


It could have been the rebels, but i am also now hearing that it was done by Assad's forces, albeit... without his consent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2013 at 08:05
Originally posted by Paradigm of Humanity Paradigm of Humanity wrote:

Originally posted by Harburs Harburs wrote:


 As long as there is a veto rule UN is not entirely democratic. We also need to look at it from this side, what if there was no UN at all. This organization has helped millions of people and actually has solved many conflicts, so it is something necessary and positive, but not Ideal. 

The UN established to preserve domination and protection of interests of the victors of WWII. I don't see any radical shift from that point.

The UN cannot be anything more than mere extension of foreign policy of member states in a world where Machiavelism dominates foreign policy of nations. The UN do not exists as a seperate entity and its factions on almost every matter bind together by self interest (of politicians not states), not by ethics nor democracy.


George W. Bush's efforts in trying too convince others into reforming the UN from it's current quagmire of corruption and loss of public faith by making it an equitable institution it once was,  is looking more prescient with  each passing day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2013 at 11:14
Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

It is too soon in saying who did this. Some say the rebels did it, now reports are coming out saying that Syrian forces did it without Assad's orders. It is all hear say until more conclusive evidence is revealed.


I agree that it is too soon to apportion blame, which is all the more reason not to intervene on behalf of one side or another. But in reaching an intelligent judgement on who is responsible, the question of who benefits from such an action should not be avoided.

Quote The rebels started with good intentions. Let's be honest, Assad is a brutal dictator and a butcher and it has never surprised me that he would fight relentlessly to hold onto power. What would have surprised me is if he had shown the intelligence to try and end the uprising by talks and compromise. But now due to proximity of cause, the rebel groups have been tainted by Al Qaeda and supporting terrorist groups, making them no better than Assad and his forces. If the rebels prevail, than the rebel moderates will have hell to pay by not cleaning the vipers from their nest and as you say, atrocities will indeed continue as the rebel moderates try to take back their country from the scum they turned a blind eye too. If Assad prevails, atrocities will still happen as the foreign fighters flee and the Syrian rebels deal with the consequences of their actions. It will be a massacre.


Assad seems to me more like a pretty reasonable person who was suddenly expected to deal with the harsh requirements of operating a sophisticated security apparatus in a country with enormous sectarian divisions, faced with substantial external threats and simply not ready for democracy at all. Brutal dictator? I don't think any dictator is able to preserve power in an essentially unfree system without some show of force and coercion; but he's no Idi Amin or monster.

Quote Here is something most people fail in considering, The West can ignore what is going on in Syria, but it won't make any difference in stopping all the outside interference from foreign Muslim fighters to the Iranian government supportive military and prestige in seeing Assad prevail from said aid. From my analyses, this has never been a solely Syrian affair.


This is a point I have been rather vocal about on our site's facebook page discussions. In particular the Saudi vs Iran jostling for power in the region is why this proxy war is being fuelled. But it still begs the question of whether Western countries are really acting in their own interests by allowing their Mid East allies to get them involved in this conflict. Sometimes you just have to tell your client states you won't be there to hold their hand next time they want to fight a war for their own interests.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2013 at 05:12
Does the new Russian Idea about Syrian conflict work? Apparently, Russia has suggested to take control of Syrian chemical weapons and to discard them, so it may prevent a US air raid.



Edited by Harburs - 10 Sep 2013 at 05:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paradigm of Humanity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2013 at 06:44
Makes sense. Poor and humiliated US diplomacy...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2013 at 06:52
Originally posted by Paradigm of Humanity Paradigm of Humanity wrote:

Makes sense. Poor and humiliated US diplomacy...
Not a 100% failed diplomacy, If it meant to get rid of Syrian chemical weapons. Which country does get rid of its chemical weapons (assets here) without any external push? Only very few like Kazakhstan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2013 at 09:31

I used to believe that Saddam Hussein possessed Weapon of Mass Destruction.  I believed  that US will prove this. They did not.

Now the US try to convince us that Assad used  chemical weapon against his own people. I will need a very strong evidence to believe them. 



Edited by Goral - 10 Sep 2013 at 09:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paradigm of Humanity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2013 at 11:31
Originally posted by Harburs Harburs wrote:

Not a 100% failed diplomacy, If it meant to get rid of Syrian chemical weapons. Which country does get rid of its chemical weapons (assets here) without any external push? Only very few like Kazakhstan.

You are missing the point. Obama did not actually wanted military intervention (as he do not care about chemical weapons or civilian causalties from conventional warfare). He was just about to do that in order to keep up with his promise on "red line" word. Otherwise he and US would seen even more incompetent. Obama's silly promise gave initiative to Syrian regime and now they are singlehandedly using it to their benefit with help of cunning Russian diplomacy.

Next move of US is likely to be disputing reliability of Russian and Syrian promises. Then they will blow up a few regime targets. This will make them appear to be regained initiative but they will lose some more prestige anyway...

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