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Anti-Mexican racism

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pinguin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2011 at 16:47
Certainly, I don't expect an American like yourself to understand how Hispanics feel in the complex relation with Uncle Sam.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kaysaar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2011 at 18:08
Pinguin - based on his previous posts, I have a sneaking suspicion that drgonzaga is an ex-patriate Spaniard residing in the USA - which would very much make him Hispanic. If he isn't a Spaniard then he has a solid understanding of Spanish culture and languages.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2011 at 23:37
Well, Dr. Gonzaga has lived for too long in the U.S.A. If you know what I mean.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2011 at 14:04
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Well, Dr. Gonzaga has lived for too long in the U.S.A. If you know what I mean.
 
In the event some might not fathom your innuendo, Penguin, just what do you mean? Please enlighten us on all of the remaining junk littering your hoary halls of memory with all of its racist and prejudiced cobwebs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2011 at 23:39
Come on, Doc. How come you don't understand the irony?
You have lived so long in the U.S. that by know your values and principles have already changed, together with your loyalty.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2011 at 01:07
My principles and loyalties have a "national" identity? What kind of Vasconcelos hogwash have you been swilling of late? Requirements and obligations of right conduct carry no passports, and the fundamental values of humankind are universals. The irony is that someone might claim otherwise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2011 at 02:23
You can swear on it! Peoples principles and loyalties are culture dependant. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2011 at 05:30
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Something that the American propaganda machine promises to everyone, but that only blacks have achieved there.
Lol!! are you serious?Blacks having it better than Hispanics, in what world do you live?In what planet?

Edited by scv - 22 Nov 2011 at 05:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2011 at 05:33
Originally posted by scv scv wrote:

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Something that the American propaganda machine promises to everyone, but that only blacks have achieved there.
Lol!! are you serious?Blacks having it better than Hispanics, in what world do you live?In what planet?
He is a roaming soul from past century!Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2011 at 05:45
Originally posted by Harburs Harburs wrote:

He is a roaming soul from past century!Wink
Or from another planet. ;) No one will believe Hispanic receive worse threatment than Blacks ever.Hispanics are given the benefits that Blacks doesn't have, also there are Euro Hispanics.

Edited by scv - 22 Nov 2011 at 05:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2011 at 07:54
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Why the Anglosaxons don't remember this continent was Amerindian for tens of thousand years before the Europeans brough alliens from all over the old continents to the New World?
 
Then perhaps Latin Americans shall also remember that the continent was amerindian for tens of thousands of years before the Europeans came. It seems that many Latin Americans have forgotten that, instead they are just continuing exterminating and displacing the native peoples, and destroy their land and livelihood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2011 at 02:12
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

 
Then perhaps Latin Americans shall also remember that the continent was amerindian for tens of thousands of years before the Europeans came. It seems that many Latin Americans have forgotten that, instead they are just continuing exterminating and displacing the native peoples, and destroy their land and livelihood.


We are still Amerindians, Tin Tin.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2011 at 02:32
Yes. But one thing is not the denial of the other. We have European and Indigenous ancestors, because these people have lived here 500 years together. And in that time these peoples fused into one. Today many Indigenous people have European features, and many "Whites" have Indigenous features, as well. And nobody knows where one group start and ends the other.

The rest is political propaganda of ignorants.

Edited by pinguin - 23 Nov 2011 at 02:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2011 at 09:07

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Yes. But one thing is not the denial of the other. We have European and Indigenous ancestors, because these people have lived here 500 years together. And in that time these peoples fused into one. Today many Indigenous people have European features, and many "Whites" have Indigenous features, as well. And nobody knows where one group start and ends the other.

 
You are not giving the whole picture. All Amerindians have not fused into the main stream societies, but instead they fight hard to retain their cultural, economic, societal and sometimes physical independence and survival. One must also separate culture and genetics. All mixed people with some Amerindian ancestry do not count themselves as Amerindians. On the contrary many of them take part in the persecution of the true Amerindians.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2011 at 00:26
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

You are not giving the whole picture. All Amerindians have not fused into the main stream societies, but instead they fight hard to retain their cultural, economic, societal and sometimes physical independence and survival. One must also separate culture and genetics. All mixed people with some Amerindian ancestry do not count themselves as Amerindians. On the contrary many of them take part in the persecution of the true Amerindians.


You are the one that don't see the whole picture. You confuse the very small populations that still, after 500 years, remain isolated from the rest as the single Amerindians of the Americas. You have forgotten that 99.99% of the Amerindian genetics in Latin America is in the mainstream. You have forgotten that the largest Amerindian groups are today urban, and that they look and mix with the rest.


You have forgotten that the more urbanized region worldwide is Latin America!! And that from the 500 millions of Latin Americans, only a few hundred thousands still live in the jungle, with the number decreasing because the emigration to the cities!

Here, even the millonaires do have Amerindian blood, even if it doesn't look like at first sight.


Just check the statistics of milk intollerancy in Latin America, if in doubt.


Edited by pinguin - 24 Nov 2011 at 00:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2011 at 03:22
You need more Mexican Amerindian though. You know that, yeah?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2011 at 05:03
Hearing this dude arguments, I would like that one day a True Mapuche visited these boards and shut him up, instead of defending them, he is giving them shame.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2011 at 07:45
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

You are the one that don't see the whole picture. You confuse the very small populations that still, after 500 years, remain isolated from the rest as the single Amerindians of the Americas. You have forgotten that 99.99% of the Amerindian genetics in Latin America is in the mainstream. You have forgotten that the largest Amerindian groups are today urban, and that they look and mix with the rest.

You have forgotten that the more urbanized region worldwide is Latin America!! And that from the 500 millions of Latin Americans, only a few hundred thousands still live in the jungle, with the number decreasing because the emigration to the cities!

Well, even if there are a lot of people in Latin America with mixed ancestry it is still important to try to protect those people who have not been destroyed by the mainstream latino culture. If the true native cultures are destroyed we will suffer an irreparable loss of wisdom, language, human values, worldviews, knowledge and adaptation to the nature.

And the destruction of the last true Amerindian cultures are many times also connected with the destruction of natural resources and natural environments (as forests, rivers and others). That makes the loss even worse.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2011 at 02:06
Originally posted by Harburs Harburs wrote:

You need more Mexican Amerindian though. You know that, yeah?


More Mexican? No thanks. With the Mapuche blood, I am fine Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 04:59
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

 More Mexican? No thanks. With the Mapuche blood, I am fine Wink
Mapuche?LOL!!, you would mean Conquistador.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 10:32
Obama is half white too.  Maybe that boiled egg you call your brain didn't realise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 00:04
Originally posted by scv scv wrote:

...Mapuche?LOL!!, you would mean Conquistador.


Why not both?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 00:05
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Obama is half white too.  Maybe that boiled egg you call your brain didn't realise.


Obama is not half native, Sir. He is foreigner to the Americas from both branches of his family tree.

Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 00:14
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Well, even if there are a lot of people in Latin America with mixed ancestry it is still important to try to protect those people who have not been destroyed by the mainstream latino culture.


Certainly, I agree.

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

If the true native cultures are destroyed we will suffer an irreparable loss of wisdom, language, human values, worldviews, knowledge and adaptation to the nature.

Certainly, I also agree.

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

And the destruction of the last true Amerindian cultures are many times also connected with the destruction of natural resources and natural environments (as forests, rivers and others). That makes the loss even worse.

I don't agree. Native culture survives quite well in the urban environment, and in places like Bolivia and Paraguay most people (even not natives) speak native languages!

I don't think most native cultures are in danger either. There are some that have standed the test of time, and the resilience is easy to see. I don't see the Mapudungun, Quechua, Guarani, Maya or Nahuatl as an extinct language, any time soon. On the contrary, the curiousity and interest of the mainstream for the native cultures keep growing.

You shouldn't confuse the tragedy of the Amazonian tribes with the realities of the larger native populations in South America and Latin America as a whole. There are 80 millions pure natives in the region, and most of the 500 million Latin America have an important Amerindian component, even in Brazil.

And you shouldn't confuse the necesity to preserve a jungle, with the people that lives on it. The people need to addapt to its modern reality. They need the lawyers, politicians and civil servants that protect them and made the change, and that means to addapt part of the mainstream tools.

The only thing the regions doesn't need are foreign activists that with theirs dreams (religions, communism, fascism, etc.) has produced for centuries so much pain in the region. Enough is enough.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 00:15
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Obama is half white too.  Maybe that boiled egg you call your brain didn't realise.


Obama is not half native, Sir. He is foreigner to the Americas from both branches of his family tree.

Wink
 
Any attempt to parse the above demands that one either be a simpleton or disgustingly perverse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 00:32
Jesus, Doc. Always evading the topic. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 06:09
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

 Why not both?
Then you would be a mestizo adn not mapuche anymore, then you would have to change that avatar of the beautiful Mapuche Native you are trying to represent but failing miserably in doing so(to not say ashaming the true mapuches) and put an Average Chilean cartoon. ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 06:11
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

 Obama is not half native, Sir. He is foreigner to the Americas from both branches of his family tree.

Wink
Also you are one, a thin blood of native will not help you, you aren't Mapuche in culture and thinking, but average Chilean.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 10:13

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

I don't agree. Native culture survives quite well in the urban environment, and in places like Bolivia and Paraguay most people (even not natives) speak native languages!

But many native cultures are also very connected with their environment. Their economy, their material culture, their organization and also their spiritual and mental culture are evolved in close connection with the surrounding nature. Their art depicts nature, their religion and ideology are shaped by a life in interaction with the nature. Many of these people are thrown out into a limbo both physically and mentally when their land is taken from them and the environment is destroyed by the invaders.

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

And you shouldn't confuse the necesity to preserve a jungle, with the people that lives on it. The people need to addapt to its modern reality. They need the lawyers, politicians and civil servants that protect them and made the change, and that means to addapt part of the mainstream tools.

Noone denies the need of knowledge and education among the native peoples. It is necessary for them to obtain such in order to defence their land, their cultures and their environment from destruction. But one shall be aware so that the knowledge they obtain are not propaganda from superstitious missionaries and similar people who want to pacify the native peoples in order to subdue them and/or to take control over their land, which still is too common in several Latin American countries (for example in Brazil, Ecuador, Bolivia, Peru and Colombia).

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

The only thing the regions doesn't need are foreign activists that with theirs dreams (religions, communism, fascism, etc.) has produced for centuries so much pain in the region. Enough is enough.

As I have explained before, many indigenous people have actually actively searched for help and assistance from foreign non governmental organizations and other people in foreign countries in cases when the governments and politicians in their own countries have not listened to them or actively exploited them.

 



Edited by Carcharodon - 29 Nov 2011 at 10:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 11:39
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Obama is half white too.  Maybe that boiled egg you call your brain didn't realise.


Obama is not half native, Sir. He is foreigner to the Americas from both branches of his family tree.

Wink
You said he was a black african of kenyan descent.  That's half the truth.  Regardless,
your grasp of the word native is obviously incomplete. 
 
He was born in Hawaii which means he is a native of the United States of America, since Hawaii is a state of the USA, regardless of his racial heritage.  There is no debate or argument about that.  Anyone born in the USA is native to that political entity and is recognised as such by all institutions, national and international regardless of what you think.


Edited by Zagros - 29 Nov 2011 at 11:40
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