| FORUM | ARCHIVE |                    | TOTAL QUIZ RESULT |


  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Bali murder
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Welcome stranger, click here to read about some of the great benefits of registering for a free account with us and joining us in our global online community.


Bali murder

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Online
Points: 3331
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Bali murder
    Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 06:27
An Australian woman and an English man have been charged with murdering an Indonesian police officer.

According to todays news reports, Bali prosecutors are asking the judge to sentence them both to eight years imprisonment. They haven't been formally convicted yet.

Compare this to the Schapelle Corby case, in which an Australian woman was convicted under highly questionable circumstances of smuggling Cannabis into Bali, and sentenced first to Life Imprisonment, later reduced, and she has spent more than ten years in Korobokan Prison before being paroled. She hasn't been allowed to leave Bali.

Smuggling Cannabis into Bali can be compared with carrying coals to Newcastle.

Is the alleged smuggling of a small amount of Cannabis worse than murder in Indonesia?

Makes you wonder.
God created 2nd Lieutenants for the amusement of Senior NCO's.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 663
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 15:40
Hi toyomotor. 
What happens with Balinese who break drug laws in Australia? Does Australia just deport them or do they serve time in Australia?
The sentencing is heavy on the drug trade but I'm surprised that the death of an officer didn't warrant more time. 
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Online
Points: 3331
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 00:40
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Hi toyomotor. 
What happens with Balinese who break drug laws in Australia? Does Australia just deport them or do they serve time in Australia?
The sentencing is heavy on the drug trade but I'm surprised that the death of an officer didn't warrant more time. 

Any foreign national who commits a serious crime, upon conviction, is sentenced to a term of imprisonment, at the expiration of which, they are deported.

The Schapelle Corby case, in my opinion as an ex Drug Squad detective, was fishy from the get go. Apparently the Australian Federal Police became aware of the proposed smuggling, but instead of arresting her in Australia with the drugs, the Indonesian police were informed and were waiting for her at the Bali airport. There is a huge question of whether or not the drugs were hers, or planted in her possessions (a Boogy Board bag) by, probably her father. Anyway, as I said, she was sentenced to life in prison, which was later reduced, and she served ten years in Kerobokan Prison before being released on parole.

Two other Australians in a different case, part of a gang of nine, were executed after being convicted of smuggling heroin.

That two people who allegedly murdered a police officer face the prospect of only eight years in prison beats me. It is said though, that corruption in the Indonesian Police, Army etc is so rife that one must ask if money has changed hands.


God created 2nd Lieutenants for the amusement of Senior NCO's.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 663
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 00:51
I read up on the Schapelle Corby case, looks like her father tried to get others to smuggle weed for him. And her family has made a bit of cash over her ordeal. Do you think she was unaware of what she was carrying ?

What you say about the Indonesian police could be said about a lot of places, like Mexico. How safe are the tourists ? Do you hear of kidnappings? 
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Online
Points: 3331
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 01:15
Vanuatu-

Quote I read up on the Schapelle Corby case, looks like her father tried to get others to smuggle weed for him. And her family has made a bit of cash over her ordeal. Do you think she was unaware of what she was carrying ?{/quote]

I think so. Her reaction when arrested by Bali Police, with a pre-arranged battery of media present, was exactly what I would have expected of a young woman wrongly charged, and even having at the time a suspicion that her father was responsible. She has maintained her innocense throughout.

As I said, to smuggle Cannabis into Bali is like carrying coals to Newcastle. Indonesian Cannabis is pretty much world renowned.

[quote]What you say about the Indonesian police could be said about a lot of places, like Mexico. How safe are the tourists ? Do you hear of kidnappings?

Yes, I agree, many places are corrupt. 

Tourists are, IMHO, only fairly safe. You would know about the Bali Bombings in which hotels where predominently Australian tourists stay, were targetted. I wouldn't go there if you paid me.

Not so much kidnapping, but there are reports of tourists being set up by police having penny ante drug dealers selling them drugs or trying to, under the watchful eyes of the police, and then tourists are snapped up. Of course, in these cases, cash speaks louder than words.

Australia has a chequered past with Indonesia, going back to the 1960's when Australian jounalists were gunned down. The suspects in this matter were from the TNI-the Indonesian Army. There is the matter of East Timor, which, when fighting for independence from Indonesia, were supported by Australia, and our military. There were frequent cases of TNI shooting at Australian troops.





Edited by toyomotor - 23 Feb 2017 at 01:16
God created 2nd Lieutenants for the amusement of Senior NCO's.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 663
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 01:45
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu-

Yes, I agree, many places are corrupt. 

Tourists are, IMHO, only fairly safe. You would know about the Bali Bombings in which hotels where predominently Australian tourists stay, were targetted. I wouldn't go there if you paid me.

Not so much kidnapping, but there are reports of tourists being set up by police having penny ante drug dealers selling them drugs or trying to, under the watchful eyes of the police, and then tourists are snapped up. Of course, in these cases, cash speaks louder than words.

Australia has a chequered past with Indonesia, going back to the 1960's when Australian jounalists were gunned down. The suspects in this matter were from the TNI-the Indonesian Army. There is the matter of East Timor, which, when fighting for independence from Indonesia, were supported by Australia, and our military. There were frequent cases of TNI shooting at Australian troops.

Oh yes that's very much like Mexico and Central America. Did the Australian government implement the "Stop Boats" measure bc of drugs or immigration, in your estimation?
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Online
Points: 3331
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 04:18
Quote "Oh yes that's very much like Mexico and Central America. Did the Australian government implement the "Stop Boats" measure bc of drugs or immigration, in your estimation?"

I think that the reasons behind the Stop the Boats-Send them Back policy were/are:-

a. Starting just after the end of the war in Viet Nam, Australia started getting "boat people" arriving on our shores. It went fairly quiet for a while, and then the Middle Eastern people caught on and started arriving in their droves. The problem that the government faced was that many of them had destroyed any evidence of identity and therefore there was no way of checking who they really were/are.

b. Bearing in mind the alarm over Muslim terrorism, and not being able to properly identify these migrants, it seemed safer not to accept them. Also, under the provisions of The Migration Act, if a potential refugee is not on Australian soil they cannot appeal any decision made by the Minister for Immigration.

As you would guess, the appeals process can take many years to finally come to a conclusion, that's why the refugees are detained offshore.

I'm not too keen on the conditions which they are forced to live in, but, on the other hand, the adults made their own decision to destroy their passports etc.

In the larger cities in Australia, gang activity has reached an alarming level, for Australia. Vietnamese  and Middle Eastern Gangs have now been joined by African gangs. All of this among our migrant populations-apart from the Mafia, is foreign to Australia.

Btw, this is one issue where I tend to agree with your President. There is no reason why convicted non-citizens should be allowed to remain in the country. I note the problems you have with migrant gangs, The Northern Mexicans, The Southern Mexicans and the rest. Also the proliferation of drug smuggling into the USA. I also agree with him on the USA/Mexican wall-but he'll also need regular checks for tunnels, some of which have been very elaborate.


God created 2nd Lieutenants for the amusement of Senior NCO's.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 663
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 03:34
Yes the tunnels are a huge problem. The wall is a problem but it may be necessary. Border Patrol fully supports Trump, their hands have been tied. Next is the nonsense of sanctuary cities. In San Francisco for example they plan to defy Federal law and not report illegals to proper authorities. 

They act as if they have some control over what theses people will do, as of they could ever contain them. Murders, assaults and other violent crimes, drug offenses committed by people who have been deported multiple times? Completely unacceptable. The current technology (ground radar, drones) are not effective after 40 feet. So law enforcement is dependent on human intelligence.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 1785
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 22:47
In general, I don't have a problem with illegals.  Of course, the name 'Colorado' is Spanish for 'color red,' referring to ancient red rocks formations that stick out in a few places in the front range.  There are Hispanics in the San Luis valley that have been here since before the formation of the United States.  So some of the poor Hispanics you see, probably have been here since, well, forever.  Most illegals are hard working, decent folk which took the initiative to come up here from the south.  Now I feel that the United States (or any other country) has the right to enforce its laws, and no obligation towards migrants, refugees, "undocumented," other than it makes for itself, which we _have_ made, but Trump has decided to flip flop on.  Of course, he is not "flip flopping" personally, the United States is going back on its implicit and explicit promises, which is not good for its image.  But a country can do that, I just feel that this excuse for security is largely an excuse.

Toyomotor, how much do you think your background as a religious minority (Ba'hai) which is persecuted in the Middle East, (Iran) influences your view of uncontrolled immigration of poor muslim refugees? 
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Online
Points: 3331
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 23:34
franciscosan wrote
Quote Toyomotor, how much do you think your background as a religious minority (Ba'hai) which is persecuted in the Middle East, (Iran) influences your view of uncontrolled immigration of poor muslim refugees?

Where on earth did you get the idea that I belong to the Ba'hai? I most certainly don't, have never claimed to be and totally reject your claim that my opinions on refugees would be so tainted.

My attitude to refugees is simple-front up, show your passport and other identity documentation, and most of all, do it through the correct channels, the UNHCR.

Angela Merkel is only now realising her mistake in allowing unfettered entrance to Middle Eastern refugees, while other countries are battling to keep them out. Migration, yes, not uncontrolled  immigration by stealth, or by criminal elements. And, having said that, I speak from a position of being involved with refugees for more than ten years.

In Australia non-citizens who incur serious crime convictions are being sent back to their place of birth, I don't object to Trump doing the same.

And, if you read back through the posts, you will find that Vanuatu and I were discussing the murder of a Bali police officer, and that Vanuatu asked a couple of side questions-not entirely related to the murder. The discussion was not primarily about migration.





Edited by toyomotor - 24 Feb 2017 at 23:46
God created 2nd Lieutenants for the amusement of Senior NCO's.
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 1785
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 03:20
For some reason, I got the impression that you were Bah'ai, most have been someone else (on a different thread).  I like Bah'ais in general, I think that they are, in general, good people.  I had a friend who was a Bah'ai, he talked about their problems in Iran and Israel.

So I am sorry that I mistook you for a Bah'ai, and if you were a Bah'ai, I would think that might contribute a great deal of insight regarding the general concern about illegal immigration from the middle east.  Being a Bah'ai is (to me) a good thing, even though I am not a Bah'ai, I have a lot of respect for them.

As far as Bali is concerned.
I am not saying the rules in Bali are just or fair, or good.  The laws in Bali, however, originate from Bali and it seems like often foreigners (including Americans) get in trouble in some far off country and cry foul.  From a purely selfish point of view, I don't blame them, but at the same time, they did not have to go to, say, Singapore, and break their laws.  It seems a little disingenuous to go there, break their laws, and then complain about the unfairness of the laws (but only) when caught.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 663
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 04:16
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

In general, I don't have a problem with illegals.  Of course, the name 'Colorado' is Spanish for 'color red,' referring to ancient red rocks formations that stick out in a few places in the front range.  There are Hispanics in the San Luis valley that have been here since before the formation of the United States.  So some of the poor Hispanics you see, probably have been here since, well, forever.  Most illegals are hard working, decent folk which took the initiative to come up here from the south.  Now I feel that the United States (or any other country) has the right to enforce its laws, and no obligation towards migrants, refugees, "undocumented," other than it makes for itself, which we _have_ made, but Trump has decided to flip flop on.  Of course, he is not "flip flopping" personally, the United States is going back on its implicit and explicit promises, which is not good for its image.  But a country can do that, I just feel that this excuse for security is largely an excuse.

Toyomotor, how much do you think your background as a religious minority (Ba'hai) which is persecuted in the Middle East, (Iran) influences your view of uncontrolled immigration of poor muslim refugees? 

Decent folk who have been here forever really ought to become citizens. What flip flop? No idea what you are talking about, Obama named the countries that have no organized leadership and are basically lawless. Why in the world is a flip flop to say we no longer accept the travelers from pirate states? The US has always accepted legal immigrants, more than any other country has. Come here to improve your life that's the only promise to legally arriving immigrants. 
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Online
Points: 3331
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 04:17
Quote  It seems a little disingenuous to go there, break their laws, and then complain about the unfairness of the laws (but only) when caught.

I totally agree, or should it be agree totally.Wink
God created 2nd Lieutenants for the amusement of Senior NCO's.
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 1785
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 22:34
(I'm dating myself) amongst jam band followers like The Grateful Dead, or the Phish, there is a saying that you don't want to bring drugs into Las Vegas (or Nevada in general) because the Mob doesn't like the competition.  Nevada has very strict drug laws, and so it could be that Bali is like there.  
If you are inside the 'industry' in Bali, you know how to negotiate the twists and turns, that is the price of business for doing business.  But what you absolutely don't want is some stoned kid coming in from elsewhere, acting like a bull in China shop, messing up your livelihood, playing cowboy.  And the authorities don't want that either, with newbies coming in, they don't necessarily know what will happen, and to be honest, they probably won't get a cut either.  So whatever happens, they get an extra headache, from people who won't make it 'worth their while.'  But newbies coming in can start drug wars, either intentionally or through dumb folly.  and that is where people get killed, including sometimes innocents.
Dog's barking, got to tend to her,
jf
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Online
Points: 3331
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 01:25
franciscosan wrote
Quote   Nevada has very strict drug laws, and so it could be that Bali is like there.  

There's no "could be" about it. At least four Australians have been executed by firing squad for drug smuggling. Many more people from around the world have been sentenced to life imprisonment.

Entrenched official corruption lives hand in glove alongside the drug trade in Indonesia. Bali gets the most headline space because it's a tourist destination.

This post wasn't supposed to be about the Indonesian Drug Laws, but about the disparity in asking for an eight year sentence for murder of a police officer, against death or life in prison for a drug offence.

(Reminds me of the old British system where a person convicted of manslaughter was sentenced to seven years transportation, while an Irishman charged with stealing food to help his family survive was sentence to Transportation for Life. But we do know the real reason for the life sentence, don't we?)

As for your favourite bands, I'm still back there with the Stones, Beatles etc.LOL


Edited by toyomotor - 26 Feb 2017 at 01:26
God created 2nd Lieutenants for the amusement of Senior NCO's.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.