| FORUM | ARCHIVE |                    | TOTAL QUIZ RESULT |


  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Bhavagat Gita & the Management
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Welcome stranger, click here to read about some of the great benefits of registering for a free account with us and joining us in our global online community.


Bhavagat Gita & the Management

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Ramesh V.Naivaruni View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Location: BANGALORE
Status: Offline
Points: 246
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ramesh V.Naivaruni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Bhavagat Gita & the Management
    Posted: 26 Aug 2011 at 13:11
The world has been facinated by the holy book Srimad Bhagavat Gita which was a teaching given by Sri Krishna to Arjuna has a lot of Management studies in it, which could go into the Corporate Governance, Government , War Management and Self Management . Let us analyse  them and find out if there is any truth in it.
 
To begin with I would like to quote "KARMA, DHARMA SWADHARMA AND YAGNAKARMA ARE VARIOUS NUISCANCES OF WORK, KARMA IS INDIVIDUAL WORK, DHARMA IS GROUP ORIENTED WORK, SWADHARMA IS GROUP ORIENTED INDIVIDUAL WORK, YAGNA KARMA IS EGOLESS, SELFLESS GROUP ORIENTED INDIVIDUAL WORK" 
Bhagavat Gita predicts posperity and peace when society engages in Yagna Karma.
I feel that all the above said aspects are embeded in the minds of all of us and all that we need to do is to refresh them and re-employ them and communicate a healthy work culture and values.
 
 


Edited by Ramesh V.Naivaruni - 26 Aug 2011 at 13:13
RAMESH.V.NAIVARUN
BANGALORE
INDIA
rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
email rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
blog:Http.Indiandemocracy in mousetrap
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
pinguin View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 15238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2011 at 13:21
Well, I bet the impact of The Art of War in business shows western curiosity for Asian stuff.
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar
PM Honorary Member

Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Location: Luxembourg
Status: Offline
Points: 13262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2011 at 13:50
Originally posted by Ramesh V.Naivaruni Ramesh V.Naivaruni wrote:

The world has been facinated by the holy book Srimad Bhagavat Gita which was a teaching given by Sri Krishna to Arjuna has a lot of Management studies in it, which could go into the Corporate Governance, Government , War Management and Self Management . Let us analyse  them and find out if there is any truth in it.
 
To begin with I would like to quote "KARMA, DHARMA SWADHARMA AND YAGNAKARMA ARE VARIOUS NUISCANCES OF WORK, KARMA IS INDIVIDUAL WORK, DHARMA IS GROUP ORIENTED WORK, SWADHARMA IS GROUP ORIENTED INDIVIDUAL WORK, YAGNA KARMA IS EGOLESS, SELFLESS GROUP ORIENTED INDIVIDUAL WORK" 
Bhagavat Gita predicts posperity and peace when society engages in Yagna Karma.
I feel that all the above said aspects are embeded in the minds of all of us and all that we need to do is to refresh them and re-employ them and communicate a healthy work culture and values.
 
Can you link to a source giving any reasons for your argument? Or quote some actual passages (again linking where possible, not copy-pasting)? It's fifty years since I read the Bhagavad Gita, so my memory could do with refreshing.
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork.

Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.

Back to Top
Ramesh V.Naivaruni View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Location: BANGALORE
Status: Offline
Points: 246
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ramesh V.Naivaruni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2011 at 14:15
 You can go through the Chapters of Bhagavat Gita  a) Karma Yoga, b) Raja Yoga to name a few. I shall give you the details of the same in the course of discussion.
RAMESH.V.NAIVARUN
BANGALORE
INDIA
rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
email rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
blog:Http.Indiandemocracy in mousetrap
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar
PM Honorary Member

Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Location: Luxembourg
Status: Offline
Points: 13262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2011 at 14:43
I was asking not just for text sources, but also your argument for claiming any relevance, or any superior relevance, to modern business. After all over the last half-century we've had groups linking management to Zen, and others to Sun Tzu, as pinguin pointed out, plus books like Tony Jay's Management and Machiavelli, and even my Managers and Magic, all looking at other cultures for insight into our own behaviour. 
 
And of course there have been plenty of people to proffer advice from the Bible (Jewish and Christian) and the Koran. So we need some kind of explanation up front why the Bhagavad Gita would be - practically - more useful than any of those sources?
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork.

Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.

Back to Top
drgonzaga View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Plus Ultra

Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2011 at 16:34
Yagna karma?  Ritualized action? Just by throwing out terms and presupposing a reader is ignorant of the original meanings to this dressed up vocabulary is patronizing and is simply a cover to preaching. At least be honest about this faux endeavor as found here:
 
 
Again, must I repeat that this is a History Forum and not a medium for the advocacy of religious variants. If you wish to discuss the historical implications of the Bhagavad Gita (and its many layers, some quite contemporary) then fine. Other than that, if you wish to contrast this ritualization of the religious within a secular ambiance akin to holding a "Prayer Breakfast" before discussing how to swindle investors we are all ears!


Edited by drgonzaga - 27 Aug 2011 at 00:54
Honi soit qui mal y pense
Back to Top
Ramesh V.Naivaruni View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Location: BANGALORE
Status: Offline
Points: 246
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ramesh V.Naivaruni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2011 at 08:23

In continuation with my inquest of Bhagavat Gita in relation to modern management practices I am giving herein below a Verse from Karma Yoga Text 13. Which makes me think, how relevant it is to the Corporate Governance  of today.

“YAD YAT ACARATI SRESTHAS, TAD TAD EVETARO JANAH.

SA YAT PRAMANAM KURUTE LOKA, TAD ANUVARTATE.

“WHATEVER ACTION IS PERFROMED BY GREAT MAN, THE COMMONER FOLLOW THEM”

AND WHATEVER STANDARDS HE SETS BY EXEMPLARY ACTS, ALL THE WORLD PERSUES”

In corporate management practices this  means that the leader has to set very high standards for himself only then he can expect his subordinates to follow the right management practices including high morale standards. They by the Entrepreneur should be a role model.

Every time he should question the old paradigm paving way for new thoughts and process and raise the bar on set standards for better which make an organisation more sound  in  Morals.

The Western Intellectual  Mr. Henry David Thoreau  Said “in the morning I bath my intellect in the stupendous philosophy of the Bhagavat Gita, in comparison with our Modern world and its literature seems puny and trivial”

Alfred North whitehead the great British mathematician stated that “Vedanta is most impressive  meta physics the human mind has ever conceived. You did more you learn.

Francois Voltaire Stated “Everything has come down to us from the banks of Ganges”

While quoting the various authors of the past I feel that when we are enquiring about the relevance of Bhagavat Gita I think we should try and interpret the same by our own engagement with the book rather  than taking  other people quotes . Here  I can say with confidence that Gita & Vedas provided the base for Modern Sceientific & Management thoughts.

RAMESH.V.NAIVARUN
BANGALORE
INDIA
rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
email rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
blog:Http.Indiandemocracy in mousetrap
Back to Top
Ramesh V.Naivaruni View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Location: BANGALORE
Status: Offline
Points: 246
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ramesh V.Naivaruni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2011 at 08:32

Mr.drgonzaga, Yagna Karma has nothing to do with Ritualised in the sense you are talking about, If you would have googled it find our suitable meaning. For you information Ritual doesnt mean anything that has got to do with preaching of a religion. Ritual in Sanskrit means even your daily core, yagna in the plurastic sense means Selfless acts.

I would request you to go through book "BHAGAVAT GITA AS IT IS", and you can find out the truth. There is no necessity for people to go through the preaching of any Gurus. Incase of Sai baba or other people who intent is to preach religion would have used Yagna Karma incon text specific sense, which should not be reason for you to cry foul.
 
Sir, I am sure you are a well read person and I sure that you will add up to the image of this thread as well without dwelling into unwanted quarters of religion & Caste which atleast is not the premise with which I started this thread. Let us all analyse the Bhagavat Gita and its relavance on Modern Management practices.
 


Edited by Ramesh V.Naivaruni - 27 Aug 2011 at 08:35
RAMESH.V.NAIVARUN
BANGALORE
INDIA
rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
email rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
blog:Http.Indiandemocracy in mousetrap
Back to Top
pinguin View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 15238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2011 at 11:52
Well, that's the same that Westerners do with the Bible, and the classics, too. Pick the appropiate ideas out of context. Nothing new under the sun.

Samples:

Location is everything
Genesis 28:16
"Surely the LORD is in this place -- and I did not know it!" (For context, read 28:1-5, 10-17.)

Honestity
Leviticus 19:36
"You shall have honest balances, honest weights, an honest ephah, and an honest hin: I am the
LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt." (For context, read 19:1-37.)

The golden rule
Matthew 7:12
"In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets."
(This is a complete statement; no additional context needed.)

Something that some managers forget
Luke 10:7
"... the laborer deserves to be paid." (For context, read 10:1-12.)


Jesus made







Back to Top
Ramesh V.Naivaruni View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Location: BANGALORE
Status: Offline
Points: 246
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ramesh V.Naivaruni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2011 at 12:04
I did not say that Bible did not have Management thoughts in it, but I have seen various books on Gita & Management by various authors which could been seen on the google site, I wanted to do an inquest from the Text itself word by word of certain chapter where the interpations are direct and pointed and not "IMPLIED".
I Shall be bringing it out in the subsequent pages of this thread.
 
RAMESH.V.NAIVARUN
BANGALORE
INDIA
rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
email rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
blog:Http.Indiandemocracy in mousetrap
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar
PM Honorary Member

Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Location: Luxembourg
Status: Offline
Points: 13262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2011 at 12:20

Originally posted by Ramesh V.Naivaruni Ramesh V.Naivaruni wrote:


In continuation with my inquest of Bhagavat Gita in relation to modern management practices I am giving herein below a Verse from Karma Yoga Text 13. Which makes me think, how relevant it is to the Corporate Governance  of today.

"Yad yat acarati sresthas, tad tad evetaro Janah.
Sa yat pramanam kurute loka, tad anuvartate."
"Whatever action is performed by great man, the commoner follow them.
And whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world persues"


You're claiming that you have evidence this is true? It is undoubtedly true that some people base their actions on copying role models, but I'm not aware that this is in any way because of the 'greatness' of the individual. As Carl Duerr pointed out in Management Kinetics (iirc) a reputation as a successful womaniser genrally helps a man's leadership capability. Dominique Kahn has lost no following because of his reputation for womanising (though it was shaken for a while by the apparent stupidity of his alleged actions in New York).
I also don't see any great rush on anyone's part to emulate the exemplary acts of Schweizer or Gorbachev, or for that matter Mohandas Ghandi.
Quote
In corporate management practices this  means that the leader has to set very high standards for himself only then he can expect his subordinates to follow the right management practices including high morale standards.

Do you really mean 'morale' or 'moral'? I'd agree that a leader has to expect less from his subordinates than he does from himself (there's nothing new in that) but what do you mean by 'higher' there?
Quote
They by the Entrepreneur should be a role model.
Every time he should question the old paradigm paving way for new thoughts and process and raise the bar on set standards for better which make an organisation more sound  in  Morals.


Whose morals? Apart from sexual activity, I'd take a great deal of convincing that absolute honesty, for instance, was a key to success in business. But maybe you have some case studies that show that it is.
Quote
The Western Intellectual  Mr. Henry David Thoreau  ... Alfred North whitehead ... Francois Voltaire

What do any of them know about modern management or business?
Quote
While quoting the various authors of the past I feel that when we are enquiring about the relevance of Bhagavat Gita I think we should try and interpret the same by our own engagement with the book rather  than taking  other people quotes . Here  I can say with confidence that Gita & Vedas provided the base for Modern Sceientific & Management thoughts.

On what do you base that statement? Where the confidence? We know the history of modern management/business thinking pretty well. I doubt than any one of those who developed it had paid any attention at all to any of the Vedic texts. Taylor, Maynard, Sloan, Simon, Herzberg, McGregor? Gekko?
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork.

Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.

Back to Top
Ramesh V.Naivaruni View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Location: BANGALORE
Status: Offline
Points: 246
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ramesh V.Naivaruni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2011 at 13:24

Text 23  Chapter -3

"YADI HY AHAM NA VARTEYAM, JATU KARMANY ATANDRITAH, MAMA VARTMANU VARTANTE, MANUSYAH PARTHA SARVASAH".
 
 "If I do not engage in my work, certain all men would follow my path"
 
From this verse, we can find out that the leader should lead his team from the front and lead them by examples. If the leader is lazy and refuses to work , then he will not be able to expect hard work from his team. Hence it is necessary that he should be hardworking to set standards. Finally the strength the organisation gets is from the leadership and it is essential that one should have a right attitude towards work which includes hard & smart work.
 
Regarding role model, I would say everyone irrespective of his calibre gets inspired by people you work around, one need not take every traits of the leader(womanising part-- let us leave it to perverted minds to imbibe only wrong things).
 
Mahatma Gandhi even after nearly after over 50 years continues to inspire many Indian and foreign minds. For example take the case of Anna Haraze peaceful agitation thru the methods of Satyagraha in India has kindled the minds of thousands of Indians to support him.
 
 
RAMESH.V.NAIVARUN
BANGALORE
INDIA
rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
email rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
blog:Http.Indiandemocracy in mousetrap
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar
PM Honorary Member

Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Location: Luxembourg
Status: Offline
Points: 13262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2011 at 14:31
Originally posted by Ramesh V.Naivaruni Ramesh V.Naivaruni wrote:

Text 23  Chapter -3

"YADI HY AHAM NA VARTEYAM, JATU KARMANY ATANDRITAH, MAMA VARTMANU VARTANTE, MANUSYAH PARTHA SARVASAH".
 
 "If I do not engage in my work, certain all men would follow my path"
 
From this verse, we can find out that the leader should lead his team from the front and lead them by examples. If the leader is lazy and refuses to work , then he will not be able to expect hard work from his team.
Well, lots of people say that. It still needs some kind of evidence, preferably other than anecdotal. You can only lead by example if you want your 'team' (the word has kind of lost all significance in recent years) to do the same things you do. In a highly speialised environment you frequently do not want the members of the team to follow your example: after all most of them will know how to do their jobs better than you do.
 
Torres captained the Brazilian team of 1970 superbly, and is one of the greatest defenders in history. But Pele would have got nowhere following his example, because their roles and skills were different. And Félix wouldn't have copied them much either.
Quote
Hence it is necessary that he should be hardworking to set standards. Finally the strength the organisation gets is from the leadership and it is essential that one should have a right attitude towards work which includes hard & smart work.
One wonders what experience you have in business or management, especially in actual business history. It sounds as if you've been reading Horatio Alger and taking it as fact. Working hard is not necessarily what you want anyone to do. Working successfully is the aim, not working hard.
 
One trouble with all this delving into ancient books for advice in what to do today is that they were written in and for cultures that were nowhere nearly as specialised or complex as we are today.(That's even true of the early modern writers on management like Smith or Taylor.) 
 
When a king led his men into battle whether in a chariot or in the shield wall there was some point in him being seen fighting harder and providing an example to emulate. But remember what another person said in another ancient book:
Quote I have observed something else under the sun. The fastest runner doesn't always win the race, and the strongest warrior doesn't always win the battle. The wise sometimes go hungry, and the skillful are not necessarily wealthy. And those who are educated don't always lead successful lives. It is all decided by chance, by being in the right place at the right time.
 
Quote  
Regarding role model, I would say everyone irrespective of his calibre gets inspired by people you work around, one need not take every traits of the leader(womanising part-- let us leave it to perverted minds to imbibe only wrong things).
If you ignore 'perverted minds' then you aren't going to learn much useful about human behaviour.
It's true some people sometimes get inspired by people they work around (or by people they work against, for that matter). But it's relatively rare, and it doesn't come from watching them work harder. There's no incentive for anyone to work harder for someone who already has enough in life to satisfy him. (Which reminds me while we're on the subject of ancient texts, that you're bang up against Gautama's teaching on this point. If we are to eliminate subservience to desire, what happens to the motivation to work?) 
Quote  
Mahatma Gandhi even after nearly after over 50 years continues to inspire many Indian and foreign minds. For example take the case of Anna Haraze peaceful agitation thru the methods of Satyagraha in India has kindled the minds of thousands of Indians to support him.
 
I quoted Ghandi because he struck me as probably the most universally respeccted figures in 20th century history. I don't think there's much reason to gild the lily.
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork.

Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.

Back to Top
drgonzaga View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Plus Ultra

Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2011 at 16:11
Spare me the "snake oil" and the appeal to philosophy as a commercial value given the fact that such is but fodder for bad novellas as with Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. There is nothing metaphysical about either intrinsic quality or effective management. Just by your citing what would be the equivalent of a Watchtower publication--Bhagavat Gita As It Is--reveals your hand and the mystical in merchandising has its own history, and such might be an appropriate thread with respect to the propagandizing of religion but such is not what you are attempting. It is bad enough handling the rabid secularists to now have to deal with the arrival of the Anti-Carcharadon.
Honi soit qui mal y pense
Back to Top
pinguin View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 15238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2011 at 16:31
I believe the Bhagavad-Gita is a lot more interesting because its phylosophical ideas. Particularly, I founded amazing that when Arjuna asked to see the reality of the God, Khrisna shows him the infinity, in a way very similar the aleph in the corner, in Borge's tale The Aleph.


Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar
PM Honorary Member

Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Location: Luxembourg
Status: Offline
Points: 13262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2011 at 19:23
I don't think anyone is saying the Bhagavad Gita is uninteresting. The question is whether it presents any practically useful precepts for successful management or success in business (the two of course are not at all the same thing.)
 
It certainly doesn't seem likely that anyone who calls himself 'His Divine Grace', and claims to be "the current representative of an unbroken chain of fully self-realized spiritual masters begining with Lord Krishna Himself", is going to have anything useful to say.
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork.

Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.

Back to Top
pinguin View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 15238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2011 at 19:58
Por mi parte, creo que el desarrollo más importante del hinduísmo al desarrollo social humano ha sido el sistema de castas.


Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar
PM Honorary Member

Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Location: Luxembourg
Status: Offline
Points: 13262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2011 at 11:10
Pinguin, you know better than that - give an English translation. I agree with the thought though.
 
Moreover it seems relevant to the topic. Caste systems don't work too well in modern business and management.


Edited by gcle2003 - 28 Aug 2011 at 11:13
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork.

Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.

Back to Top
pinguin View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 15238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2011 at 14:36
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Por mi parte, creo que el desarrollo más importante del hinduísmo al desarrollo social humano ha sido el sistema de castas.


Opps... Confused I made a mistake. This happened to me once in a while, given I am in Spanish-speaking forums as well Wink

What I said was and ironic joke, that actually is a serious complain against Hinduism:

In any case, I believe the most important development of Hinduism to human development it was the invention of the castes system Confused

Now, how on earth we can promote Hinduism as a system to be copied by mindkind if in the very heart of it lays the unequality and the division of mankind in perpetual castes?

How we would apply Hinduism to the company then? Making the untouchables to clean the offices? And only allowing the brahamanes to be managers?

Yes, everywhere in the West there are social classes, and it is hard to jump from one into other, and most people do, but at least there is the chance for some to don't do it. There is nothing sacred in preventing people to progress.

In colonial Hispanic America, for instance, an indigenous family, if worked hard enough, could become rich merchant, and even aspire to nobility titles by means of the right marriages! And that happened all the time. All the Hispanic American elite was mixed! And we are talking of a society ruled by Inquisition. That would have been impossible in India.

Thinking the topic clear, this is a joke!! No wonder the equalitarian Chinese society, with its simpler phylosophy, has had a lot more influence in the West than India.






Edited by pinguin - 28 Aug 2011 at 14:45
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar
PM Honorary Member

Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Location: Luxembourg
Status: Offline
Points: 13262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2011 at 16:11
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Por mi parte, creo que el desarrollo más importante del hinduísmo al desarrollo social humano ha sido el sistema de castas.


Opps... Confused I made a mistake. This happened to me once in a while, given I am in Spanish-speaking forums as well Wink
No hard feelings Hug
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork.

Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.

Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2011 at 22:52
Caste system was one reason why Buddhism had much wider appeal in ancient India, when it was unified under Asoka, of Muryan dynasty. It was essentially a revolt against and reformation of this debilitating caste system, which some believe evolved as a way for the lighter skinned Aryan migrants and their mixed descendants to keep their kind on top of the hierarchy and live on other people's labor, while whiling away their time in endless sessions of memorizing and internalizing the eternal hymns of Rg Veda and its successors.

The strength of Hinduism or Sanatana Dharma is this that it resides in the memory of the Brahmin priests in the villages, spread out widely among the populace. So even if the Buddhist kings used the far superior Buddhist ideology to unify and empower their empire and populace, the pernicious Hindu philosophy always made a come back, on the backs of the scheming Brahmins, who are close to the people, giving sermons and leading prayers in the village temples.

When the marauding Muslim Central Asian mounted nomad warriors arrived on horseback with their bows and arrows in hand, their eyes were on the Buddhist Viharas (universities) that looked like fortresses which they are familiar with and they burned these to the ground, whenever they encountered these edifices:


So this removed the eternal Buddhist enemy of the Brahmins, which was centered around the monastery (Vihara's), but Islam with its classless structure, at least in theory, replaced Buddhism as the new enemy and eventually won large number of converts in a centuries long struggle.

Today Hindu polity is still divided because of caste system, while it is always the Brahmins that are more enthusiastic about Hindu nationalism and revivalism, keeping the old tradition alive.



Edited by eventhorizon - 29 Aug 2011 at 01:13
Back to Top
pinguin View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 15238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2011 at 01:44
Indeed. Hindu religion maybe very rich in tradition and literature, but the caste system is so negative and divisive that I doubt it could serve as example in management. Or as an example to the west.

I shouldn't forget to mention that in the XIX century, the Vedas and the caste system was in fashion in the West and inspired such lunatics like Mme. Blavatsky, the Aryanists and the German supremacists, the result of which is well known in the West.

What I found so ridiculous is the racist origins of the caste system. Today, when we found that brahamanes had all the non-aryan australoid facial features of the people they hat so much, it is obvious that the caste system failed as a racial barrier. But still is in place, discriminating hundred of millions in India.

Come on! Cows are treated better than untouchables in India! Holly cow!

I am afraid with that kind of religion of castes only hippies and the Beatles could extract humanistic lessons from the Vedas.




Edited by pinguin - 29 Aug 2011 at 01:49
Back to Top
Joe View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 473
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2011 at 05:54
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Indeed. Hindu religion maybe very rich in tradition and literature, but the caste system is so negative and divisive that I doubt it could serve as example in management. Or as an example to the west.

I shouldn't forget to mention that in the XIX century, the Vedas and the caste system was in fashion in the West and inspired such lunatics like Mme. Blavatsky, the Aryanists and the German supremacists, the result of which is well known in the West.

What I found so ridiculous is the racist origins of the caste system. Today, when we found that brahamanes had all the non-aryan australoid facial features of the people they hat so much, it is obvious that the caste system failed as a racial barrier. But still is in place, discriminating hundred of millions in India.

Come on! Cows are treated better than untouchables in India! Holly cow!

I am afraid with that kind of religion of castes only hippies and the Beatles could extract humanistic lessons from the Vedas.



Yeah but a majority of the Bhagavad Gita is about a war and religious aspects and ideals. Its a very religious style text more so than I expected but I do not think its in anyway it is a good "business text".
Back to Top
Ramesh V.Naivaruni View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Location: BANGALORE
Status: Offline
Points: 246
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ramesh V.Naivaruni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2011 at 13:07
"The more I talk about me I talk about We" Jack welch(Chairman GE,
I was told by a poser that the rational of Management princples have changed over the years, but with this quote from Jack Welch I think the only change that is visible is" Old wine in New Bottle". The principle of team effort and spirit will bring in synergic output and no organisation can ignore be-little team spirit.
Indian Team won the world cup twice, again the it is sense of team spirit, that made the players put in the extra effort, and the world cup by theirs. Similarly we can cite thousands of examples wherein the employe'ssense of belonging is the reason for any successful organisation . Infosys the Indian IT giant offers ESOPS(EMPLOYEE STOCK OPTIONS) and we all know that from a humble beggning now it is formidable IT company respected world over.
 
Some years back I read a story of Hampton Inn, an a economy hotel in the United States, where the managment practices was not good and hence the business went down and the owners of Hampton wanted to appoint a New CEO, which they did.  On taking charge of the hotel he offered a scheme to all its customers, the scheme was "if any customer who checks in to the hotels has any problem which is not resolved to his satisfaction will be offered one additional night free". and to drive his employees to work harder in convened a meeting of all of them and told them that there will be no question asked if any employess is doing things that will make the customer happy within his ability even if it means swapping roles for the moment and towards the end of this year there will be an apprisal which will take stock of your role during this period offer especially it my baby and I will have to stand by my offer even if it means additional burden, and I am sure that you will not let a cutomer take an additional stay, with this he closed his speech.
 
The synergy infused on the staff was such the service levels went so high which is unparleled in the Service Industry till date.
I am sure that collective effort of any team is not a fad, but a reality that can change the fortune of any companies.
Here is what Jack Welch has to say

When Jack Welch took over GE in 1981 and became the youngest CEO in GE’s history, the legendary leader made a resolution to transform GE into the world’s most competitive enterprise. Welch is a strategic thinker, business teacher, corporate icon and management theorist. If leadership is an art, then surely Welch has proved himself a master painter. With his unique leadership style and character, Welch made history during his 2-decade journey at GE. While most leaders talk a good game on leadership, he lived it. In this article, we feature Welch’s 12 lessons and how they contributed to the largest corporate makeover in history.
LEAD, Not MANAGE

Welch doesn’t like the term ‘manage’. To him, it conjures up negative images, such as ‘keeping people in the dark’ and ‘controlling and stifling people’. Welch’s goal is to lead, create a vision and make people passionate about their work. Leadership, according to Welch, can be found in anyone as long as they contribute, come up with good ideas and can energize, excite and inspire rather than enervate, depress and control.
Below are tips to become a great leader like Welch:
· Articulate a vision and lead others to execute it
· Don’t manage very little details
· Involve everyone and welcome great ideas.

While Individual have to contribute but also work as a team and optimise synergic output.
 
 


Edited by Ramesh V.Naivaruni - 29 Aug 2011 at 13:11
RAMESH.V.NAIVARUN
BANGALORE
INDIA
rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
email rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
blog:Http.Indiandemocracy in mousetrap
Back to Top
drgonzaga View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Plus Ultra

Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2011 at 16:47
What in tarnation does Wicked Witch Welch have to do with either History or Management other than exemplify the practices and stylistic piracy thet eventually led to the Crash of 2008!?! If we are to discuss this personification of Gordon Gecko as an example of the Bhagavad Gita in business practice, you would have to convert this Forum into an infomercial on the qualities of greed and callousness. As for INFOSYS, leveraging information technology is hardly what one would identify as a divinely inspired pursuit and no amount of crapola is going to disguise that its pricipal function is to provide "cheap labor" in the realm of information services to international institutions determined to "cut costs" come hell-or-high water. Of course, if one is highly cynical one can easily conclude that its introduction here is but another facet of nationalism running amok.

Edited by drgonzaga - 29 Aug 2011 at 21:43
Honi soit qui mal y pense
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar
PM Honorary Member

Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Location: Luxembourg
Status: Offline
Points: 13262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2011 at 20:02
Originally posted by Ramesh V.Naivaruni Ramesh V.Naivaruni wrote:

"The more I talk about me I talk about We" Jack welch(Chairman GE,
Jac Welch fired every year 10% of his management, irrespectivbe of how well the company was doing. So much for that great old 'team spirit'. Jack Welch epitomises the return since 1980 of management led, not from the front, not from helping his managers and workers from any kind of enrichment, but simply by fear of being fired in a depressed econmic situation..
Quote  
 
I was told by a poser that the rational of Management princples have changed over the years, but with this quote from Jack Welch I think the only change that is visible is" Old wine in New Bottle". The principle of team effort and spirit will bring in synergic output and no organisation can ignore be-little team spirit.
What do you mean by 'team spirit'? In a successful team you don't actually need a team leader because each member of a successful team does his own job: the leader is essentially a communicator, a connection point, and a motivator where one is necessary. In that situation team 'spirit' i.e. pride in being part of the team is engendered and of course it is invaluable.
However, you don't achieve that by trying to show you can do everybody else's job better than they can, which is what you were suggesting earlier.
Quote
Indian Team won the world cup twice, again the it is sense of team spirit, that made the players put in the extra effort, and the world cup by theirs.
And they just got slaughtered by England. 4-0 and twice by an innings.
Quote
Similarly we can cite thousands of examples wherein the employe'ssense of belonging is the reason for any successful organisation . Infosys the Indian IT giant offers ESOPS(EMPLOYEE STOCK OPTIONS) and we all know that from a humble beggning now it is formidable IT company respected world over.
There are plenty of examples wiere a company with stock options failed. I worked for one myself. WorldCom was another. So of course was Enron.
 
Quote
Some years back I read a story of Hampton Inn, an a economy hotel in the United States, where the managment practices was not good and hence the business went down and the owners of Hampton wanted to appoint a New CEO, which they did.  On taking charge of the hotel he offered a scheme to all its customers, the scheme was "if any customer who checks in to the hotels has any problem which is not resolved to his satisfaction will be offered one additional night free". and to drive his employees to work harder in convened a meeting of all of them and told them that there will be no question asked if any employess is doing things that will make the customer happy within his ability even if it means swapping roles for the moment and towards the end of this year there will be an apprisal which will take stock of your role during this period offer especially it my baby and I will have to stand by my offer even if it means additional burden, and I am sure that you will not let a cutomer take an additional stay, with this he closed his speech.
Smart move I grant you, since no-one who is having a bad experience at a hotel will take them up on the offer of an extra night. However, the guy thought up the scheme himself, dictated it to his workers, who presumably sat back and said (quietly) "Oh, yeah!", and threatened them with punitive action if they didn't shape up. Not the world's most successful recipe for building a teak of happy campers.
Quote  
The synergy infused on the staff was such the service levels went so high which is unparleled in the Service Industry till date.
I don't think you know what 'synergy' means. I don't see ny sign of it in your anecdote.
Quote
I am sure that collective effort of any team is not a fad, but a reality that can change the fortune of any companies.
Of course it's not a fad, it's almost self-defining. The trick though is how you create it. It's no good just babbling on about how great it is to build a team. What one needs is guidance on how to build it, which is far from an easy task, and not helped by managers throwing their weight about.
Quote
Here is what Jack Welch has to say
Yes he talks the talk. Welch was on the whole a very successful businessman. But Welch was, on the whole, not a great manager. The company he toook over was already doing well when he took over. Most of its subsequent growth was due to takeover, which doesn't demand managerial skills.
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork.

Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.

Back to Top
Ramesh V.Naivaruni View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Location: BANGALORE
Status: Offline
Points: 246
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ramesh V.Naivaruni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2011 at 07:54
What I fail to see here is that either management has lost it relavance with regards to setting high standards and values as some poster think so, but in reality no organisation can ever survive if the people who work there are deviod of "High Standard & Values", Leadership is and will be the primary reason for driving people to perform better. While accepting the fact the Good leader is one who manages the least it is because the team will be the eyes and ears for him and it is necessary for him to have highly motivated and efficient staff.
Here are some quotes on leadershp which is self explanatory.
To lead people, walk beside them ... As for the best leaders, the people do not notice their existence. The next best, the people honor and praise. The next, the people fear; and the next, the people hate ... When the best leader's work is done the people say, 'We did it ourselves!'"
— Lao-tsu
"Dictators ride to and fro upon tigers which they dare not dismount. And the tigers are getting hungry."
— Winston Churchill


"Control is not leadership; management is not leadership; leadership is leadership. If you seek to lead, invest at least 50% of your time in leading yourself—your own purpose, ethics, principles, motivation, conduct. Invest at least 20% leading those with authority over you and 15% leading your peers."
— Dee Hock
Founder and CEO Emeritus, Visa


"All of the great leaders have had one characteristic in common: it was the willingness to confront unequivocally the major anxiety of their people in their time. This, and not much else, is the essence of leadership."
— John Kenneth Galbraith


"If a rhinoceros were to enter this restaurant now, there is no denying he would have great power here. But I should be the first to rise and assure him that he had no authority whatever."
— G.K. Chesterton to Alexander Woollcott


"The task of the leader is to get his people from where they are to where they have not been."
— Henry Kissinger


"No institution can possibly survive if it needs geniuses or supermen to manage it. It must be organized in such a way as to be able to get along under a leadership composed of average human beings."
— Peter Drucker
 
I dont think there is any team in the world who has not lost a single match, victory and defeat are part and parcel of any sport.  Here Bhagavat Gita  says, one should take both Victory and defeat in equanimity and it is very valid. One should not get exicted when one wins and at the same time one should not feel let down if he is defeated. Life should go on. 


RAMESH.V.NAIVARUN
BANGALORE
INDIA
rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
email rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
blog:Http.Indiandemocracy in mousetrap
Back to Top
Ramesh V.Naivaruni View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Location: BANGALORE
Status: Offline
Points: 246
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ramesh V.Naivaruni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2011 at 08:06
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Originally posted by Ramesh V.Naivaruni Ramesh V.Naivaruni wrote:

"The more I talk about me I talk about We" Jack welch(Chairman GE,
Jac Welch fired every year 10% of his management, irrespectivbe of how well the company was doing. So much for that great old 'team spirit'. Jack Welch epitomises the return since 1980 of management led, not from the front, not from helping his managers and workers from any kind of enrichment, but simply by fear of being fired in a depressed econmic situation..
Quote  
 
I was told by a poser that the rational of Management princples have changed over the years, but with this quote from Jack Welch I think the only change that is visible is" Old wine in New Bottle". The principle of team effort and spirit will bring in synergic output and no organisation can ignore be-little team spirit.
What do you mean by 'team spirit'? In a successful team you don't actually need a team leader because each member of a successful team does his own job: the leader is essentially a communicator, a connection point, and a motivator where one is necessary. In that situation team 'spirit' i.e. pride in being part of the team is engendered and of course it is invaluable.
However, you don't achieve that by trying to show you can do everybody else's job better than they can, which is what you were suggesting earlier.
Quote
Indian Team won the world cup twice, again the it is sense of team spirit, that made the players put in the extra effort, and the world cup by theirs.
And they just got slaughtered by England. 4-0 and twice by an innings.
Quote Victory & Defeat are part and parcel of the Game, I think when I say something you get some thing negative about it, why are we talking about England series, we are are talking about Leadership and Team Spirit & the Synergic out put it produces.
Similarly we can cite thousands of examples wherein the employe'ssense of belonging is the reason for any successful organisation . Infosys the Indian IT giant offers ESOPS(EMPLOYEE STOCK OPTIONS) and we all know that from a humble beggning now it is formidable IT company respected world over.
There are plenty of examples wiere a company with stock options failed. I worked for one myself. WorldCom was another. So of course was Enron.
 
Quote I am so sorry that it failed in your organisation, the probable reason might be you and your team might have been working as tangents and not in tandem and Introspection will throw light as to why organisation failed.Wink
Some years back I read a story of Hampton Inn, an a economy hotel in the United States, where the managment practices was not good and hence the business went down and the owners of Hampton wanted to appoint a New CEO, which they did.  On taking charge of the hotel he offered a scheme to all its customers, the scheme was "if any customer who checks in to the hotels has any problem which is not resolved to his satisfaction will be offered one additional night free". and to drive his employees to work harder in convened a meeting of all of them and told them that there will be no question asked if any employess is doing things that will make the customer happy within his ability even if it means swapping roles for the moment and towards the end of this year there will be an apprisal which will take stock of your role during this period offer especially it my baby and I will have to stand by my offer even if it means additional burden, and I am sure that you will not let a cutomer take an additional stay, with this he closed his speech.
Smart move I grant you, since no-one who is having a bad experience at a hotel will take them up on the offer of an extra night. However, the guy thought up the scheme himself, dictated it to his workers, who presumably sat back and said (quietly) "Oh, yeah!", and threatened them with punitive action if they didn't shape up. Not the world's most successful recipe for building a teak of happy campers.
Quote  
The synergy infused on the staff was such the service levels went so high which is unparleled in the Service Industry till date.
I don't think you know what 'synergy' means. I don't see ny sign of it in your anecdote.
Quote Definitions and usages

 Synergy is,In the context of organizational behavior, following the view that a cohesive group is more than the sum of its parts, synergy is the ability of a group to outperform even its best individual member. These conclusions are derived from the studies conducted by Jay Hall on a number of laboratory-based group ranking and prediction tasks. He found that effective groups actively looked for the points in which they disagreed and in consequence encouraged conflicts amongst the participants in the early stages of the discussion. In contrast, the ineffective groups felt a need to establish a common view quickly, used simple decision making methods such as averaging, and focused on completing the task rather than on finding solutions they could agree on.

In a technical context, its meaning is a construct or collection of different elements working together to produce results not obtainable by any of the elements alone. The elements, or parts, can include people, hardware, software, facilities, policies, documents: all things required to produce system-level results. The value added by the system as a whole, beyond that contributed independently by the parts, is primarily created by the relationship among the parts; that is, how they are interconnected. In essence, a system constitutes a set of interrelated components working together with a common objective: fulfilling some designated need.

I am sure that collective effort of any team is not a fad, but a reality that can change the fortune of any companies.
Of course it's not a fad, it's almost self-defining. The trick though is how you create it. It's no good just babbling on about how great it is to build a team. What one needs is guidance on how to build it, which is far from an easy task, and not helped by managers throwing their weight about.
Quote
Here is what Jack Welch has to say
Yes he talks the talk. Welch was on the whole a very successful businessman. But Welch was, on the whole, not a great manager. The company he toook over was already doing well when he took over. Most of its subsequent growth was due to takeover, which doesn't demand managerial skills.
RAMESH.V.NAIVARUN
BANGALORE
INDIA
rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
email rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
blog:Http.Indiandemocracy in mousetrap
Back to Top
Ramesh V.Naivaruni View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Location: BANGALORE
Status: Offline
Points: 246
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ramesh V.Naivaruni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2011 at 08:14
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

What in tarnation does Wicked Witch Welch have to do with either History or Management other than exemplify the practices and stylistic piracy thet eventually led to the Crash of 2008!?! If we are to discuss this personification of Gordon Gecko as an example of the Bhagavad Gita in business practice, you would have to convert this Forum into an infomercial on the qualities of greed and callousness. As for INFOSYS, leveraging information technology is hardly what one would identify as a divinely inspired pursuit and no amount of crapola is going to disguise that its pricipal function is to provide "cheap labor" in the realm of information services to international institutions determined to "cut costs" come hell-or-high water. Of course, if one is highly cynical one can easily conclude that its introduction here is but another facet of nationalism running amok.
You call everything which goes aganist your line of thinking as wicked, while you are talking nationalism running amok I do agree, it is your thinking which is confirned to the confines of narrow nationalism, while you profess thinking with Global perspective but what you write about others shows your true colour.  When I mention infosys I had also metioned GE, I am not biased but you are.  We are not talking about technology in the first case, I am trying to find out whether Bhagvat Gita has any significance in Todays Management Thoughts even remotely ?. At the end of the discussion I may agree that it has no significance as I am open, but on your part you have formed your mind not to agree even to rationalist thoughts. That does not augur well in a forum.Smile
RAMESH.V.NAIVARUN
BANGALORE
INDIA
rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
email rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
blog:Http.Indiandemocracy in mousetrap
Back to Top
Ramesh V.Naivaruni View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Location: BANGALORE
Status: Offline
Points: 246
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ramesh V.Naivaruni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2011 at 08:21
I think during the vedic period there was no division of labour based on Varna, but it was the period of Manu Smiriti that brought about division of labour based on Caste.  I dont think it is prevalant in India today, but cultural continuity cannot be over ruled, as son taking up father's profession is prevalant in India. Things are changing.
 
What was preached during Manu Smiriti has been challenged by yagnavalkya Smiriti but to say the truth, both of them agree on some parameter which doesnt go well with the rational taught process.  I think even America did have slaves, but it was totally eradicated. Now that the lower caste are empowered they can assert themselves.  I dont know whether many of you know, It is a non bailable offence to use the term" Dalit "(LOW CASTE).
RAMESH.V.NAIVARUN
BANGALORE
INDIA
rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
email rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
blog:Http.Indiandemocracy in mousetrap
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.