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Cheddar Man

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    Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 03:33
Face of first Brit revealed: Blue eyes, dark hair and skin

First ever full reading of Cheddar Man's DNA

The face of 'Cheddar Man', Britain's oldest nearly complete skeleton at 10,000 years old, is revealed for the first time and with unprecedented accuracy by UCL and Natural History Museum researchers.

The results indicate that Cheddar Man had blue eyes, dark coloured curly hair and 'dark to black' skin pigmentation. Previously, many had assumed that he had reduced skin pigmentation.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 03:41
toyomotor,

Proud black hair was expected. Do the blue eyes disqualify Cheddar Man for Black Irish?
Are you surprised about blue eyes?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 07:38
Vanuatu

I don't really know. There were humans in Ireland before the Celts arrived, and they originated from Eastern Europe (IMHO) near the Steppe Region, before moving in numbers westwards to the Iberian Peninsula.

The original occupants of Ireland, as I understand it, were of a Pictish race, and I don't know where they came from. Nor do I know if they possibly were of a dark complection etc.

I always thought that dark skinned people usually had dark coloured eyes.

Many people have speculated about the so-called Black Irish, but I've not seen any DNA evidence of where they might have come from.

Cheddar Man has come out of the blue. Notice that scientists make a lot use of the words "possibly", "indicate" and "potentially" purely because their statements have not passed all of the evidentiary tests.

From https://owlcation.com/stem/Irish-Blood-Genetic-Identity
Quote Recent research into Irish DNA at the beginning of the twenty-first century suggests that the early inhabitants of Ireland were not directly descended from the Keltoi of central Europe. Genome sequencing performed on remains of early settlers in Ireland by researchers at Trinity University in Dublin and Queens University has revealed at least two waves of migration to the island in past millennia. Analysis of the remains of a 5,200 year-old Irish farmer suggested that the population of Ireland at that time was closely genetically related to the modern-day populations of southern Europe, especially Spain and Sardinia. Her ancestors, however, originally migrated from the Middle East, the cradle of agriculture.

Meanwhile, the research team also examined the remains of three 4,000 year-old men from the Bronze Age and revealed that another wave of migration to Ireland had taken place, this time from the edges of Eastern Europe. One third of their ancestry came from the Steppe region of Russia and Ukraine, so their ancestors must have gradually spread west across Europe. These remains, found on Rathlin Island also shared a close genetic affinity with the Scottish, Welsh, and modern Irish, unlike the earlier farmer. This suggests that many people living in Ireland today have genetic links to people who were living on the island at least 4,000 years ago.









Edited by toyomotor - 21 Feb 2018 at 10:51
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 13:37
It was my understanding that the Celts first came up from the Iberian peninsula. I know it doesn't really change anything. Scientists age the blue eye mutation at 6-10,000 YPB. 
Cheddar Man is around 10,000 years old. That's a lucky catch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 04:30
V

Quote It was my understanding that the Celts first came up from the Iberian peninsula.

Yes they did. But their heimat is the Baltic Steppes. Many of them moved south west and formed a large community in southern Spain. From there they formed communities in France (Brittany region) and then to Wales and Ireland, but necessarily in that order. From Ireland they settled  in Scotland also.

The dark skin and black hair doesn't surprise me, although I wouldn't have thought that they would be that dark. Blues eyes, well I don't know. It could be the case of the sample being only one of the race whose DNA had attracted the blue eye mutation-the majority having brown eyes.

Also to be taken into consideration is the number of migratory waves into Britain, out of Britain and returning again.

I also wonder at the original inhabitants of Britain, before the Picts.






Edited by toyomotor - 21 Feb 2018 at 11:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2018 at 11:01

I think I'll wait for more information in this.

To me, the skin is far too dark, the nose also too broad. The forehead is higher than I would have anticipated and the cheek bones to pronounced.

The original Britons (or whoever came before them) were thought to have come from either  
(a) Scandinavia or 
(b) the Caspian Steppe.

This skeleton is only about 10K yrs old. I suggest that there were AMH in the area before that.

Further study will tell us what foods he ate, and his skeletal composition, viv-a-vis musculature and bone wear.

I'd venture that he was not born in Britain, but was part of another later migratory wave, and was an admixture of Homo Sapien Sapien and Neanderthal, Denisovan, or another southern tribe of AMH.

Quote from https://www.genomeweb.com/sequencing/european-mesolithic-hunter-gatherer-genome-contains-ancestral-well-derived-allel

 

European Mesolithic Hunter-Gatherer Genome Contains Ancestral as well as Derived Alleles

Jan 27, 2014
 

NEW YORK (GenomeWeb Daily News) – An international team of researchers sequenced the genome and characterized a handful of alleles from a Mesolithic skeleton dating back some 7,000 years.

As the team reported in Nature on Sunday, this Mesolithic European hunter-gather has swaths of DNA in common with modern Northern Europeans and carries ancestral as well as derived alleles for some traits. For instance, the researchers determined that the hunter-gather likely had dark skin and blue eyes.


Next-generation sequencing has enabled researchers to peek further back in time to examine human roots. For instance, Ötzi the Iceman's genome, a Neolithic man, was published last year, and other researchers have studied the genomes of human relatives, including Neandertals and Denisovans."[T]he biggest surprise was to discover that this individual possessed
African versions in the genes that determine the light pigmentation of the current Europeans, which indicates that he had dark skin, although we cannot know the exact shade," said senior author Carles Lalueza-Fox, the group leader of the paleogenomics lab at the Spanish National Research Council, in a statement.

Here, Lalueza-Fox and his colleagues turned to a sample found in 2006 in a cave in León, Spain, to study the genome of a Mesolithic hunter-gatherer. The advent of farming, they noted, likely had an effect on a number of human genes related to immunity and diet.

The cave contained two male skeletons that were fairly well preserved due to the cold but stable conditions there, the researchers said. The samples were dubbed La Braña 1 and La Braña 2.

The researchers focused on La Braña 1 as a tooth from that skeleton had ample amounts of DNA, which they then sequenced to 3.4x depth of coverage using the Illumina HiSeq platform. Using the Burrows Wheeler Aligner, they mapped those reads to the human reference genome. They noted that the La Braña 1 appears to have low amounts of decay as well as low levels of contamination.

Through a principal components analysis, the researchers compared the La Braña 1 genome to the genomes of modern Europeans and found that while the Mesolithic man was distinct from existing European populations, it was placed in proximity to Northern Europeans.

In addition, they found that another ancient human from Siberia who lived during the Upper Paleolithic period — and whose genome was recently published — was more closely related to La Braña 1 than to modern Asians or Europeans.

"These data indicate that there is genetic continuity in the populations of central and western Eurasia," Lalueza-Fox said. "In fact, these data are consistent with the archeological remains," such as those found in other excavations in Europe and Russia, including Mal'ta, where anthropomorphic figures called Paleolithic Venus "have been recovered and they are very similar to each other."

Lalueza-Fox and his team then zoomed in on specific alleles that have been linked to recent adaptive evolution in humans, such as the abilities to digest starch and milk. La Braña 1 was unlikely to be able to digest either of those, they reported, as he has the ancestral lactose intolerance allele and a low number of the salivary amylase gene.

The 1,000 Genomes Project uncovered some 10 candidate non-synonymous variants found in modern humans of northern and western European ancestry, and the researchers examined whether this Mesolithic hunter-gather had those same variants.

Of those 10 variants, the hunter-gather was homozygous for the ancestral or non-selected alleles for three regions, one of which has an unknown function and two of which are linked to skin pigmentation. Those two variants are either absent or present at very low frequencies in modern Europeans.

Looking more broadly at known pigmentation-related genes, the researchers uncovered that La Braña 1 has ancestral alleles for three and derived alleles for the other three. This suggests, the researchers said, that the Mesolithic individual had dark skin and dark or brown hair.

Interestingly, La Braña 1 also has the HERC2 rs12913832*C SNP and related homozygous haplotype that spans the HERC2–OCA2 locus that is strongly associated with blue eyes, the researchers noted.

"The genotypic combination leading to a predicted phenotype of dark skin and non-brown eyes is unique and no longer present in contemporary European populations," the researchers said. "Our results indicate that the adaptive spread of light skin pigmentation alleles was not complete in some European populations by the Mesolithic and that the spread of alleles associated with light/blue eye color may have preceded changes in skin pigmentation."

For the other loci found in the 1,000 Genomes group, La Braña 1 had the derived alleles in five cases, including in three genes linked to immune system function.

Again, in a broader look at immune-related genes, the researchers found that La Braña 1 had the derived allele in some 24 genes, or about 60 percent. Those genes, the researchers noted, have a range of functions, from pattern recognition receptors to chemokines and chemokine receptors to intracellular modulators.

Then, by examining the La Braña 1 genome at all eQTL regions linked to positive selection in Europeans, the researchers found that eight immunity-related genes, including three Toll-like receptor genes, were likely overexpressed in La Braña 1.

"These observations suggest that the Neolithic transition did not drive all cases of adaptive innovation on immunity genes found in modern Europeans," the researchers said. "Several of the derived haplotypes seen at high frequency today in extant Europeans were already present during the Mesolithic as neutral standing variation or due to selection predating the Neolithic."

Still, La Braña 1 represents one Mesolithic hunter-gather genome, and the researchers noted that additional ancient genome sequences will be needed to determine whether the Braña 1 findings are generalizeable, and the lead author of the study, Iñigo Olalde, said that the team is working to sequence the La Braña 2 genome.

"Nevertheless," the researchers added, "this genome sequence provides the first insight as to how these hunter-gatherers are related to contemporary Europeans and other ancient peoples in both Europe and Asia, and shows how ancient DNA can shed light on the timing and nature of recent positive selection."


Note use of the words "suggestive" and "associated with".


The authors associate early Britons (?) with northern Europe, but the Celts were fair skinned and blonde or red hair, the Scythians and so on, didn't have very dark skin, yes, I know, they came later.

 





Edited by toyomotor - 22 Feb 2018 at 05:12
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2018 at 13:50
Already one of the geneticists working on Cheddar Man says there is no way to know the skin color of ancient humans. Whaa??
On the topic of Celtic migration, yes I know they originate somewhere near Iran but since the multiple waves of migration were separated by many years and geography-would their looks be totally distinctive?. Since there were Celts from Turkey to Portugal, does that necessarily suggest great distinction in appearance and culture? 
There speculations that the Phoenicians were the ancestors of the Celts who displaced the Picts. According to Irish records, they descend from a Scythian King named Phoeniusa Farsa...according to the Irish this kings' descendents eventually populated the country of Phoenicia and named the country in his honor...Phoeniusa son; other studies trace their origin to a very distant past in India 10,000 B.C. where they were closely associated with the Aryans. There is a controversial study by Rajeswar Gupta is published in full as originally translated from Bengali in 1902. It is based on the ancient Rig Veda and puts forth the following suggestions regarding the origin of the Phoenicians:


There is a Phoenician tablet identified as Celtic because of the themes and descriptions of the sun.
Are the very first Celts the Beaker people? There appear to have been humans on the East Anglia Coast 700,000 YBP.

So I can only agree, too soon to tell.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2018 at 00:30
You've mentioned the Bell Beaker People in conjunction with the Celts. I don't think they were one and the same-there's a time difference.

Scientists refer to the Bell Beaker people and the Corded Ware people as if they were a seperate and distinct culture. I don't think that they were. I thinks it's more of a case of the designs of the pottery, which was made by the womenfolk, was passed on by passing traders, or women who married(?) the traders and moved with them to Southern Europe, taking the skill with them. From there it could have been copied, and become the current "fad" in domestic pottery. (Just like Tupperware LOL )

As I've pointed out, experts leave themselves a way out if they're proven to be wrong by using vague terms like "could possible indicate" and "suggestive of". It's almost worthwhile forgetting what you read last week, and wait to see what's written next week, that's virtually how quickly the technology, analysis and identification of skeletal remains is moving.

Getting back to the OP, and bearing in mind that there are claims of the Out of Africa Mass Migration, back migration and more waves Out of Africa, along with theories now that AMH weren't all the product of Africa at all, and we have only part of the jig-saw puzzle.

Every thing new is old again!

(And why do these re-creations never have beards-they didn't shave with sharp rock I bet)


Edited by toyomotor - 25 Feb 2018 at 00:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2018 at 02:14
Having posted the above about Bell Beaker and Corded Ware people, a few moments later I found an article at http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/90-neolithic-british-gene-pool-was-replaced-beaker-immigrants-009636 which tells us that scientific analysis shows that the people mentioned did move en masse from the Steppe to Europe, including the UK.

Of course it doesn't speak to the claim that the first Briton was dark skinned, and I stand by my thought that perhaps the Cheddar Man might have come from elsewhere, as a migrant from perhaps Africa, rather than the Iranic region or the Steppe. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2018 at 02:41
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

You've mentioned the Bell Beaker People in conjunction with the Celts. I don't think they were one and the same-there's a time difference.

Scientists refer to the Bell Beaker people and the Corded Ware people as if they were a seperate and distinct culture. I don't think that they were. I thinks it's more of a case of the designs of the pottery, which was made by the womenfolk, was passed on by passing traders, or women who married(?) the traders and moved with them to Southern Europe, taking the skill with them. From there it could have been copied, and become the current "fad" in domestic pottery. (Just like Tupperware LOL )

As I've pointed out, experts leave themselves a way out if they're proven to be wrong by using vague terms like "could possible indicate" and "suggestive of". It's almost worthwhile forgetting what you read last week, and wait to see what's written next week, that's virtually how quickly the technology, analysis and identification of skeletal remains is moving.

Getting back to the OP, and bearing in mind that there are claims of the Out of Africa Mass Migration, back migration and more waves Out of Africa, along with theories now that AMH weren't all the product of Africa at all, and we have only part of the jig-saw puzzle.

Every thing new is old again!

(And why do these re-creations never have beards-they didn't shave with sharp rock I bet)
Righto, they were genetically distinct from Celts. The descendants are in Britain and they had lighter hair and eye color than the Neolithic farmers that were replaced. This is when Britain becomes an island.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2018 at 02:59
From the link provided by Vanuatu
Quote The variety of Beaker artefacts makes it hard to define them as emerging from one distinctive culture: many researchers prefer to call their spread the ‘Bell Beaker phenomenon’, says Marc Vander Linden, an archaeologist at University College London. The distinctive pots, possibly used as drinking vessels, are nearly ubiquitous; flint arrowheads, copper daggers and stone wrist guards are common, too.
and

Quote The analysis seems to dispel the idea of one ‘Beaker people’ arising from a specific source. Individuals in Iberia (which has been proposed as the wellspring for the culture) shared little ancestry with those in central Europe. Even Beaker-associated people in the same region came from different genetic stock. That pattern contrasts with earlier upheavals in Europe driven by mass migrations, says Skoglund. Bell Beaker “is the best example of something that is pots and not people” that are spreading, he says.

The text which I've emboldened and underlined, IMHO, says it all. The skill of making the Bell Beaker and Corded Ware pottery spread all over Europe, but not necessarily by the people who pioneered the manufacture of them. It could have been, of course, but evidence to prove that is still to be provided.

Overarching the above, is the Yamnaya Culture.

From Wiki
Quote The people of the Yamnaya culture were the likely result of admixture between eastern European hunter-gatherers (via whom they also descend from the Mal'ta-Buret' culture or other, closely related people) and a Near Eastern people,[3] with some research identifying the latter as hunter-gatherers from the Caucasus[4] or a similar people also related to Chalcolithic people from what is now Iran.[5]

If we accept that there was a mass migration of people from the Pontic/Caspian 
Steppe into what is now England we must also accept that these people 
weren't black. It's suggested in the link provided that these people 
"shoved aside" the inhabitants of England, "out-bred them" and replaced them. 

Could be.

Each day tells a different story.

See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture


 


Edited by toyomotor - 25 Feb 2018 at 03:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2018 at 03:13
I realise that we've gone a bit off topic here, but one explains the other.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2018 at 04:03
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

From the link provided by Vanuatu
Quote The variety of Beaker artefacts makes it hard to define them as emerging from one distinctive culture: many researchers prefer to call their spread the ‘Bell Beaker phenomenon’, says Marc Vander Linden, an archaeologist at University College London. The distinctive pots, possibly used as drinking vessels, are nearly ubiquitous; flint arrowheads, copper daggers and stone wrist guards are common, too.
and

Quote The analysis seems to dispel the idea of one ‘Beaker people’ arising from a specific source. Individuals in Iberia (which has been proposed as the wellspring for the culture) shared little ancestry with those in central Europe. Even Beaker-associated people in the same region came from different genetic stock. That pattern contrasts with earlier upheavals in Europe driven by mass migrations, says Skoglund. Bell Beaker “is the best example of something that is pots and not people” that are spreading, he says.

The text which I've emboldened and underlined, IMHO, says it all. The skill of making the Bell Beaker and Corded Ware pottery spread all over Europe, but not necessarily by the people who pioneered the manufacture of them. It could have been, of course, but evidence to prove that is still to be provided.



Bell beaker people are defined by thinking and the pottery is just one example of world over near simultaneous leaps in cognitive perspective by humans. Lightbulb going off and relationships with cause and effect understood! Like an infant recognizing itself in the mirror. Then it's not just a copy of a Bell beaker its unique, an emulation of conceptual art hmm?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2018 at 10:53
AY???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2018 at 13:15
Runaway thought train. 
The benefit something good shows up in person's diet, the whole body feels an effect. Similarly leaps of understanding or evolution effect all creatures in particular groups. 

These eureka moments don't just apply to scientists although dual discoveries/patents occur often enough. Obviously Stone Age people had their own intellectual and creative heights. Groups that are similar in biology and culture eventually put all existing information together with an original creative aspect and that moves the game forward. The different accents on the beakers, for example show individual or tribal designs.

Stop worrying about going off topic, are we in prison?
this here is free zone. also no one cares.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2018 at 01:37
Vanuatu  wrote
Quote Runaway thought train.


And Johnny Cash sang-
Quote But that train keeps a rollin' on down to San Antone
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2018 at 15:07
Hard to do better than Johnny.Wink
Why don't we use this thread to discuss topics related to early migrations and cultural developments?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2018 at 01:04
Quote
Why don't we use this thread to discuss topics related to early migrations and cultural developments?

I don't know.

Why not start a new topic?

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