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China & US versus North Korea

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 04:02
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

According to Henry Kissinger's book 'On China,' China, as the Middle Kingdom, has had client states for hundreds if not thousands of years.  So this relationship with North Korea, is not one that started in 1948, but goes back 100s of years basically.  So getting China to "flip" so to speak, is not likely, and might be unimaginable for China.

If the ultimate end game is regional domination then China needs allies from other parts of the world like Pakistan which it has bought and paid for. Don't you expect China to take over the entire region eventually? Won't that make the leader of NK and SK totally replaceable?

We live in ever changing world Franciscosan, anything is possible, especially in politics, look at your own country for example, who would have imagined......?

If China were to take over the entire region, would Korea even still exist as an independent country? But I don't think that the US would allow that, do you?

I read in todays newspaper that someone in the US is saying that the US should confront China over the South China Sea development. So, we go to them for help on NoKo on one hand, and then try to bully them on another?






Edited by toyomotor - 01 Jun 2017 at 04:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 04:25
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

According to Henry Kissinger's book 'On China,' China, as the Middle Kingdom, has had client states for hundreds if not thousands of years.  So this relationship with North Korea, is not one that started in 1948, but goes back 100s of years basically.  So getting China to "flip" so to speak, is not likely, and might be unimaginable for China.

If the ultimate end game is regional domination then China needs allies from other parts of the world like Pakistan which it has bought and paid for. Don't you expect China to take over the entire region eventually? Won't that make the leader of NK and SK totally replaceable?

We live in ever changing world Franciscosan, anything is possible, especially in politics, look at your own country for example, who would have imagined......?

If China were to take over the entire region, would Korea even still exist as an independent country? But I don't think that the US would allow that, do you?

I read in todays newspaper that someone in the US is saying that the US should confront China over the South China Sea development. So, we go to them for help on NoKo on one hand, and then try to bully them on another?





I don't think that will ever happen. I would expect US to allow China a very wide berth as the world shrinks. The China plan depends on US alliance and they would go to war with us before they surrender any control over the region IMHO of course.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 04:29
Yes, loss of face is a very big issue in the region. And preserving face, in the end, could just possibly lead to a confrontation, whether it be controlled or not. Japan is getting itchy feet over NoKo and an alliance between SoKo and Japan could happen.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2017 at 00:51
I think the South China Sea and North Korea are separate issues.  Although I suppose something in one are might complicate things in the other, right now they are not necessarily linked.

China _is_ the Middle Kingdom, they don't want to expand, they are in their mind, between the world and heaven.  Why would anyone close to heaven want to expand and get further away from heaven, closer to the barbarians?  It is okay for barbarians or semi'barbarians to be client kingdoms, but at least traditionally, that would not be okay for an ethnic Han Chinese.  That is traditionally, but still China is not that expansionistic, sure they want Taiwan, and they make a few islands in the South China Seas, and they beat up on Tibet and the Weggers, but in general they fight wars with India, Vietnam and in Korea to maintain their buffer states, they aren't real expansionistic.  They don't want to control these areas they just want to deny them to any other great power.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2017 at 01:58
Franciscosan
Quote I think the South China Sea and North Korea are separate issues.

I've never claimed to the contrary-but the lines blurr a little when on the one hand the US militarily opposes Chinese expansionism in the South China Sea, while seeking Chinese aid, or at least neutrality over North Korea, if that's what's going on.

Quote China _is_ the Middle Kingdom, they don't want to expand, they are in their mind, between the world and heaven.
 

And heaven is where precisely, the Philipines? You must be joking, the building of man made islands and stocking them with military hardware is exactly that, expansionism.

Quote  That is traditionally, but still China is not that expansionistic, sure they want Taiwan, and they make a few islands in the South China Seas, and they beat up on Tibet and the Weggers, but in general they fight wars with India, Vietnam and in Korea to maintain their buffer states, they aren't real expansionistic.  They don't want to control these areas they just want to deny them to any other great power.

Frankly Franky, I can't understand where you're coming from. By creating the islands in the South China Sea, not only does China control the South China Sea routes to South East Asian countries, Korea and Japan, but it also creates jumping off places for military incursion into the Philipines and South East Asian countries to which it is opposed, surely you can see that? Or maybe not!!


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