| FORUM | ARCHIVE |                    | TOTAL QUIZ RESULT |


  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - CIA-911-Benghazi
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Welcome stranger, click here to read about some of the great benefits of registering for a free account with us and joining us in our global online community.


CIA-911-Benghazi

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 568
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: CIA-911-Benghazi
    Posted: 19 May 2015 at 01:24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGI4jfwOmOk

Susan Lindaur former CIA Asset tells the 911 story from her point of experience and personal ordeal at the hands of US government.

The video runs a little over an hour. Its all very enlightening and she is believable.

The last 30 minutes are most compelling and I had heard nothing of this until just recently.

It is directly related to US activity in Libya just before Muammar Gaddafi was overthrown.

There is some discussion of Hillary Clinton and 130 tons in gold bars kept in the Green Mountains of Libya. If this makes me a neurotic then so be it but the Benghazi story isn't over not by a long shot.

http://libyasos.blogspot.com/2011/07/green-mountain-israels-millitary-base.html

Edited by Vanuatu - 19 May 2015 at 01:54
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 3197
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2015 at 02:30
No, you're not neurotic. Unfortunately, the American people have no idea of what's being done in their name by their security services.
 
The Viet Nam War produced evidence of CIA involvement in all sorts of things, like heroin selling, gun running and assasination of civilians who became a threat to their enterprises.
 
Fast forward to modern day and one could never imagine what the security services have been up to in the intervening years, most of it probably not in Americas best interests.
 
 
God created 2nd Lieutenants for the amusement of Senior NCO's.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 568
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2015 at 03:33
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:





No, you're not neurotic. Unfortunately, the American people have no idea of what's being done in their name by their security services.
 
The Viet Nam War produced evidence of CIA involvement in all sorts of things, like heroin selling, gun running and assasination of civilians who became a threat to their enterprises.
 
Fast forward to modern day and one could never imagine what the security services have been up to in the intervening years, most of it probably not in Americas best interests.
 
 


In another post I pasted "The manufacturing of the DeadHead." To summarize; CIA gets young people to use psychedelic substances trough selected "Rock Stars" Among CIA this was a tounge in cheek reference to the cult of Dionysus and the Eleusinian Mysteries.

Some call this mind control, social engineering and I agree. The purpose for controlling the masses may have changed the game is played the just the same.

Jim Morrison's father Admiral George Stephen Morrison was the commander of the US Naval fleet in the Gulf of Tonkin during the August 1964.

That incident was false flag event leading to the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution leading to escalation in the Vietnam War.


New Report on Gulf of Tonkin I: Report reveals Vietnam War hoaxes, faked attacks - January 8, 2008

LBJ Tapes on the Gulf of Tonkin Incident, nauseating to read...

What do we do ?

http://psychoanalystsopposewar.org/blog/2009/07/09/porter-mcnamara-lied-to-lyndon-johnson-about-gulf-of-tonkin-attack/
Porter: McNamara lied to Lyndon Johnson about gulf of Tonkin Attack


http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=117282.20;wap2
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 1679
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2015 at 05:12
CIA was 'involved' in American abstract expressionism.
They wanted to show that the West was open, whereas the USSR was not,  originally there was a lot of abstract art at the beginning of the Russian revolution (Kandinsky) and under Stalin they got boring and cliche.  But probably most artists, and a lot of millionaire hipsters didn't know anything about it. 
If they were 'involved' in the origin of drug culture and the Grateful Dead, well, cool.
Live with it.  Grateful Dead and the psychedelic drug culture were/are a neat phenomena.  
There may actually be some good effects that come out of the CIA.
When I was at college I was in a group called Whitman Students for Social Charge, and we picketed a CIA recruitment meeting, after the student coming to listen to it 'ran the gauntlet,' I said, "I want to hear what this guy says." and went and got a seat up front.  Other protesters decided to come in and sat in the back.  He spoke for 3 hours, I think to wear down any opposition, that is a lot on a school night.
Afterwards, he asked for questions, in answering questions, he said, "but you don't hear about the CIA's success stories."  I raised my hand, he called on me and I asked, "so why don't you tell us about some CIA's success stories?"  He, well, kind of avoided the question;) 
But, a big part of success is them not getting into the news, not being a story.  So the last thing they want to do, is tell you about their "successes,"even if they think they're positive.  That is someone else's field.
But, I thought it was interesting that next year, they had someone else, with a totally different style.  I liked to think that I contributed a little to that changeover, but just a little.  And I am sure for the CIA, it is all part of the game.
But, obviously, the don't care if the story comes out 2 or 3 generations later.  There was a news story about a CIA handler who had a collection of Abstract Impressionism.  _He_ wasn't being manipulated into
buying it, and so he must have seen it as a neat thing to get into it himself.  Same thing with grateful dead, a lot of musicians get into it, because it is complex.  Maybe the CIA was there in the beginning, to push it a little and let go, but it would not have gone anywhere if it had been total crap.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 568
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2015 at 14:36
Then we can agree to disagree.

Haight Ashbury was "neat" too until thousands of young people left home, found themselves addicted to drugs and deemed a horrible scourge by the US government.

It was intentional to gather all of a type in one place to more easily manage the protests against Vietnam. It worked because our soldiers came home to literally being spit at by these cool Dead Heads.

Not enough to suffer in that hell, not enough to be following orders, now troops were going to bear the shame of killing civilians.

That's where Laurel Canyon and Bohemian Grove come into play. Gerry Garcia never joined B.G. because he knew it was a "bad scene" and he was surprised to know that Bob Weir was involved.

Enter Carlos Castaneda a backup blame story. Completely engineered as a diversion. Blame the fictional Don Juan for introducing Mescaline to hippies. Just in case the public was squeamish about blaming an old Indian woman for youth gone mental on drugs.

BTW I don't say the music was crap, it went well with hallucinogens.

Edited by Vanuatu - 20 May 2015 at 14:47
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 1679
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2015 at 18:40
No, I am not saying that you thought it was crap, I'm saying that the scene was not just artificial, that it was real, and that in many ways it was good.  Haight Ashbury would not have been my scene, but then again I've got problems of my own, I like a quiet little suburb.  I don't think much of the protesters, and so I don't see why the establishment would feel that they have to concentrate them in one place.

Look at the Matt Damon, Angelina Jolie movie, "the Good Shepherd," in it they have a skull and crossbones party, I imagine that is probably what it is like, and that is probably what Bohemian Grove is like, bunch of over-age frat boys.  A social event, with a lot of mixing, at the first one in the movie, the OSS is founded.  very WASP, but those WASP have to a great extent, let go of the reins of power.  We have more of a meritocracy today then ever before.  
One the one hand, it looks like we have diversity on the Supreme Court, on the other, everybody there and the President are ivy league, Harvard, Yale, a little Columbia.  So one can wonder exactly how much diversity (in thought) we actually have.  But racially, we are more diverse.  
George W. had more minorities in his cabinet than any president before or since.  They were not the minorities that liberals like, they were black and hispanics and Asians from "lesser" schools, who probably vote republican (and get called Uncle Toms).  But if one is intellectually honest, then I think one should give him credit for what he did well, as well as blame for whatever we think he did wrongly.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 568
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2015 at 19:21
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

No, I am not saying that you thought it was crap, I'm saying that the scene was not just artificial, that it was real, and that in many ways it was good.  Haight Ashbury would not have been my scene, but then again I've got problems of my own, I like a quiet little suburb.  I don't think much of the protesters, and so I don't see why the establishment would feel that they have to concentrate them in one place.

Look at the Matt Damon, Angelina Jolie movie, "the Good Shepherd," in it they have a skull and crossbones party, I imagine that is probably what it is like, and that is probably what Bohemian Grove is like, bunch of over-age frat boys.  A social event, with a lot of mixing, at the first one in the movie, the OSS is founded.  very WASP, but those WASP have to a great extent, let go of the reins of power.  We have more of a meritocracy today then ever before.  
One the one hand, it looks like we have diversity on the Supreme Court, on the other, everybody there and the President are ivy league, Harvard, Yale, a little Columbia.  So one can wonder exactly how much diversity (in thought) we actually have.  But racially, we are more diverse.  
George W. had more minorities in his cabinet than any president before or since.  They were not the minorities that liberals like, they were black and hispanics and Asians from "lesser" schools, who probably vote republican (and get called Uncle Toms).  But if one is intellectually honest, then I think one should give him credit for what he did well, as well as blame for whatever we think he did wrongly.


To address the first point about protesters, its not good for the government to be turning high pressure hoses on war protesters. You have to look at the number of Civil Rights and Anti War protests staring in 1960. It was getting in the way of making war.

Before Haight Ashbury and Johnny and Jane Average even knew what LSD was plans were made to literally dope the youth. Laurel Canyon is a huge complex in California near Hollywood that has been used for many purposes over the years, it was a sound stage, a military hangar and a recording studio. In 1965 it became an assembly line producing rock stars. Band after band whose members are all linked (sons and daughters of) to Intelligence Services, high ranking politicians and government officials. Some descended from old school Blue Bloods.

Not only were the bands created, the venues and radio stations were also created. At one point Charles Manson was very popular in Laurel Canyon among the hippies. You can find quotes of Neil Young and others singing his praises.
Not that Young knew what Manson was about, since they were all tripping on LSD. Listen to the early Byrds albums, they were terrible musicians.

Many of them weren't musicians at all including Jim Morrison. CIA used these people to distract the young people, the would be protesters. Frank Zappa's father was CIA. The list goes on and on.

There was a Hollywood (Sharon Tate /Roman Polanski)component Jack Nicholson and others linked to the musicians all getting high in Laurel Canyon. On his deathbed Dennis Hopper admitted that his father was in the CIA, he had been lying about that in every interview he ever gave.   
The reason it was "Real" is because the Intelligence Services know what makes people tick. They are still in our ears through corporate Media.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 568
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2015 at 20:56
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Look at the Matt Damon, Angelina Jolie movie, "the Good Shepherd," in it they have a skull and crossbones party, I imagine that is probably what it is like, and that is probably what Bohemian Grove is like, bunch of over-age frat boys. A social event, with a lot of mixing, at the first one in the movie, the OSS is founded. very WASP, but those WASP have to a great extent, let go of the reins of power. We have more of a meritocracy today then ever before.

One the one hand, it looks like we have diversity on the Supreme Court, on the other, everybody there and the President are ivy league, Harvard, Yale, a little Columbia. So one can wonder exactly how much diversity (in thought) we actually have. But racially, we are more diverse.

George W. had more minorities in his cabinet than any president before or since. They were not the minorities that liberals like, they were black and hispanics and Asians from "lesser" schools, who probably vote republican (and get called Uncle Toms). But if one is intellectually honest, then I think one should give him credit for what he did well, as well as blame for whatever we think he did wrongly.


I didn't see the Good Shepard. As to S&B- Democrats and Republicans alike have been members, ask about it and they will tell you its a 'secret.' I don't know what they do at Skull and Bones except teach colligates that they are above the common the rabble. Wherever possible S&B did recruit ethnic members it serves their purposes for appearances.

Not sure why you mention GB's cabinet. If any of them knew about the intent to go to war against Iraq no matter what they never did anything about it. Including Colin Powell who if you recall, made the case for war and recanted after Bush was out of office.

You don't have to believe Susan Lindauer but if you were a congressman and knew that our government held a citizen for almost two years with no hearing then the congressmen's ethnicity is irrelevant, ethics, courage, oaths..ring a bell?

Didn't you wonder why we were helping the Libyan rebels at the time? Obama was going to close GITMO and end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
So why did we suddenly decide to start arming pro-Sharia rebels in Libya? I remember that very well and had an argument with a Democrat friend of mind who pretty much blew it off, oh who cares?

Then Hillary Clinton sends Ambassador Christopher Stevens, a man she's known for 20 years, into a Libyan civil war? To be raped and murdered?

Nothing GB did right can ever justify what we did to screw up the Middle East. We got set up to eat The Patriot Act under the government fist. Not a personal attack on you but I can't pretend that I don't believe Lindauer.   


The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 568
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2015 at 21:22
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/05/22/us/politics/document-emails.html

Here come the first of Hillary Clinton's Benghazi documents. So far Its exactly as Lindauer said with Libya.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 1679
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2015 at 21:24
We're not on the same page, I think you are painting with an awfully broad brush, and you probably think that I just don't get it.  We'll agree to disagree about Haight Ashbury, and I think you have the wrong picture of Laurel Canyon, just from looking at Wikipedia.
The Susan Lindauer link was interesting, let's say you are walking down the street and you see a man pick up a baseball bat (cricket for Aussies) and beat another man to death.  You ask him, "why did you do that?" and the guy says "I didn't like his tie."  Well that to me is like saying we will blow up 2000 of our own people, why, "to start a war."  But again, Lindauer is interesting and I may look into it further, (for my sake (not for yours)).
You also mention Bengazi, what do you want to say about that, and put it into your own words first, even if you have tack on 1 1/2 hour long youtube video to it.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 568
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2015 at 21:36
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

We're not on the same page, I think you are painting with an awfully broad brush, and you probably think that I just don't get it.  We'll agree to disagree about Haight Ashbury, and I think you have the wrong picture of Laurel Canyon, just from looking at Wikipedia.
The Susan Lindauer link was interesting, let's say you are walking down the street and you see a man pick up a baseball bat (cricket for Aussies) and beat another man to death.  You ask him, "why did you do that?" and the guy says "I didn't like his tie."  Well that to me is like saying we will blow up 2000 of our own people, why, "to start a war."  But again, Lindauer is interesting and I may look into it further, (for my sake (not for yours)).
You also mention Bengazi, what do you want to say about that, and put it into your own words first, even if you have tack on 1 1/2 hour long youtube video to it.


Oh well if Wiki is your source then I must be all wrong.
Don't tell me what it's "Like" it actually happened.

In my own words "the US government is just now releasing documents on Benghazi."

The only 'tack'(?) is the endless loop of " the attacks on Benghazi were because of a video"
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 1679
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2015 at 22:09
my "wiki" source is for laurel canyon, and further checking it out on google maps, it looks to my untrained eye, that there is no complex there, just hills brush and houses, residential.

I have not (yet?) watched your second video clip, (although that might have just failed to work for me), but I have watched the 1 1/2 hour clip of Lindauer, at least give me credit for that.  As I was saying about tacking, you tack on a lot of links, some good, some not so, that take up time to check out.

So good, what have you found about the documents on Benghazi?  Is Hillary and her state department at fault? either directly or through neglect?  Or is poor old Hillary being picked on?  The professionals are all going to put some kind of spin on it, what is your honest, forthright opinion?
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 568
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2015 at 23:41
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

my "wiki" source is for laurel canyon, and further checking it out on google maps, it looks to my untrained eye, that there is no complex there, just hills brush and houses, residential.

I have not (yet?) watched your second video clip, (although that might have just failed to work for me), but I have watched the 1 1/2 hour clip of Lindauer, at least give me credit for that.  As I was saying about tacking, you tack on a lot of links, some good, some not so, that take up time to check out.

So good, what have you found about the documents on Benghazi?  Is Hillary and her state department at fault? either directly or through neglect?  Or is poor old Hillary being picked on?  The professionals are all going to put some kind of spin on it, what is your honest, forthright opinion?


If you have an issue w my links then let me address it, don't want to watch a video then buy the book "Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon author Dave McGowan" footnotes, citations and even weirder things that are verifiable.

I have just started to read Benghazi docs. First doc begins w Gaddhafi and it coincides with Lindauer's statements. I left a link for you!

Laurel Canyon was turned into to residential housing and just recently actor Jared Leto bought it, can wiki confirm?

Let me ask you a question-did those people need to die in Libya at the embassy? Just based on what the Special Ops guys have said?
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 1679
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2015 at 10:34
I don't think wiki can confirm, but it is small issue, like the claim Dennis Hopper's father was with the OSS turning into him being in the CIA (plus Hopper being a notorious liar).  Or the implication that Jim Morrison must have been an agent because his father was admiral.  It's sloppy thinking.  There may be something under it all, but it is hard to tell because as far as I see its a lot of sloppy thinking.

I get a sense that it was a foul-up from above.  I don't really feel that Hillary has come clean on it.  Her private server fiasco is horrid, an ambassador got caught doing the same thing and was fired.  But we all know that there are the rules for everyone else, and the rules for Hillary.
The Clintons are pretty corrupt in their business dealing and ironically the are protected from that because its old news, renting out the Lincoln bedroom to their friends for 50 thou a night.
Lot of people really love Hillary, but a lot of totally dislike her.  Democrats taking a chance putting
all their eggs in one basket
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 568
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2015 at 13:07
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I don't think wiki can confirm, but it is small issue, like the claim Dennis Hopper's father was with the OSS turning into him being in the CIA (plus Hopper being a notorious liar).  Or the implication that Jim Morrison must have been an agent because his father was admiral.  It's sloppy thinking.  There may be something under it all, but it is hard to tell because as far as I see its a lot of sloppy thinking.

I get a sense that it was a foul-up from above.  I don't really feel that Hillary has come clean on it.  Her private server <span style="line-height: 1.4;">fiasco is horrid, an ambassador got caught doing the same thing and was fired.  But we all know that </span><span style="line-height: 1.4;">there are the rules for everyone else, and the rules for Hillary.</span>
The Clintons are pretty corrupt in their business dealing and ironically the are protected from that because its old news, renting out the Lincoln bedroom to their friends for 50 thou a night.
Lot of people really love Hillary, but a lot of totally dislike her.  Democrats taking a chance putting
all their eggs in one basket


Erm,don't believe I said Mojo was an agent nor Dennis Hopper.

They were bands made to order to keep young people from eating sloppy joe's. Or was that wearing sloppy clothes? Runny nose? Anyway things got pretty sloppy man.
You..oddly enough set me on this path with Terence McKenna...he was Wasson's tool/stooge, or maybe he had drug charges and his way out was peddling psilocyban.
What do you think these "boy bands" of today are? Not CIA but corporate soma employed by corporate media to enslave the one group in the country that can truly wield power old school...TEENAGE GIRLS and BOYS to be fair.

Now there are others like Steven Stills who did have military backgrounds. But why am I telling you this? You don't think it possible.


Edited by Vanuatu - 22 May 2015 at 13:31
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 568
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2015 at 13:48
[QUOTE=franciscosan I get a sense that it was a foul-up from above. I don't really feel that Hillary has come clean on it. Her private server fiasco is horrid, an ambassador got caught doing the same thing and was fired. But we all know that there are the rules for everyone else, and the rules for Hillary.

The Clintons are pretty corrupt in their business dealing and ironically the are protected from that because its old news, renting out the Lincoln bedroom to their friends for 50 thou a night.

Lot of people really love Hillary, but a lot of totally dislike her. Democrats taking a chance putting

all their eggs in one basket/Quote]

There are many documents, so far here is what I gather; US is helping sharia rebels, loading weapons right at Benghazi port. C.Stevens asked to get the hell out of there 18 months before citing threats. It was nuts to have Americans there, state department knew rebels were killing all westerners. I think there is more to it than just wanting Obama to look like a statesman. There was gold in the Green Mountains, Israel wanted a base there and France, Britain and US wanted to buy oil from the rebels so they helped them to get rid of Gaddhafi.
Stevens was abandoned by security staff when 911 anniversary came around, it was planned Stevens probably knew.
I think people love the idea of having a woman president, no one can cite any of her 'accomplishments.' Lets have a Silky Terrier for president, it's TIME for CHANGE and WALKIES.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 1679
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2015 at 20:02
Is Morrison= Mojo?  No I guess you didn't say about Morrison or Hopper, I think that was just a link you had, implying that.  I don't see the scene at Haight Ashbury or Laurel Canyon as manufactured by anyone.  I told you about Wasson, and it turns out he's kind of a jerk.  I don't really know McKenna.

I almost feel sorry for Gaddhafi, almost.  He did a lot to come clean after Iraq war.

You sure that you want another president who's on a leash?  Thing is about Silky Terriers, you promise to scratch their belly, and they'll do anything, just like a president aide.  

Hillary put up with Bill, according to some people that is one of her 'accomplishments' making her worthy of the top office.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 568
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2015 at 03:56
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Is Morrison= Mojo?  No I guess you didn't say about Morrison or Hopper, I think that was just a link you had, implying that.  I don't see the scene at Haight Ashbury or Laurel Canyon as manufactured by anyone.  I told you about Wasson, and it turns out he's kind of a jerk.  I don't really know McKenna.

I almost feel sorry for Gaddhafi, almost.  He did a lot to come clean after Iraq war.

You sure that you want another president who's on a leash?  Thing is about Silky Terriers, you promise to scratch their belly, and they'll do anything, just like a president aide.  

Hillary put up with Bill, according to some people that is one of her 'accomplishments' making her worthy of the top office.

Yes Mr. Mojo Risin' from the song LA Woman. Remember this one ?
"If your goin' to San Francisco, be sure to wear flowers in your hair.." That's the Mommas and the Poppas. Also Laurel Canyon scene, they were calling kids to go there.

McKenna was a tool for Wasson, very smart psychedelic youth with a couple of useless degrees and a drug possession charge.

I agree about Gaddhafi, just as after listening to Lindauer I don't think we were right in deposing Saddam Hussein.

While I was growing up a woman who suffered a cheating husband, especially a woman that had a her own high ranking family heritage, was a fool. Now its become a strength.
Again, this is just what corporate media tells us, thus we accept it as fact. I have yet to hear a living breathing woman give Hillary "props" for putting up with a cheating husband who humiliated her in the public sphere.

I will still take the Silky or a Hyacinth McCaw for that matter. They are able to distinguish objects by name and touch and once they learn you can't change their minds. They seem to have a "Truth" concept.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 3197
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2015 at 02:43
Have we not galloped from the straight and narrow?
 
The topic is Behghazi/911, is it not?Wink
God created 2nd Lieutenants for the amusement of Senior NCO's.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 568
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2015 at 04:19
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:





Have we not galloped from the straight and narrow?
 
The topic is Behghazi/911, is it not?Wink


True enough, its the CIA everywhere I look.
Hillary Clinton was instructed by the White House not to hire her old pal Sid Blumenthal in any capacity while she was Sec. of State. He is an old time Clinton crony and a paid employee in her and Bill Clinton's foundation.

For some unknown reason all the intelligence about Libya that has been released came through Siddy, who incidentally was right here in Washington. Except for the SOS from Ambassador Christopher Stevens.

H. Clinton had State dept. documents going through her home computer and admits to deleting 30,000 emails.

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-did-hillary-clinton-delete-about-30000-emails-2015-3

Of course this is unprecedented no one in the employ of the Federal Government expects to get work mail through their private accounts.
It's clear that demands will be made for further investigation. I'm appalled and disgusted.

Sorry to get off track. Ever go to a funeral and end up having a laugh? I think we needed a tension breaker because this is the kind of thing that starts revolutions. I think I finally understand suicide bombers.

http://www.vox.com/2015/5/23/8647727/the-resurfacing-of-sidney-blumenthal

"The emails, which were released Friday as part of a larger disclosure by the State Department, don't provide much texture to Clinton's decision-making on Libya or how she assessed the situation in Benghazi in real time. The real question is what was in the emails Clinton destroyed after determining unilaterally that they did not deal with government business. But the emails released by State do show that Blumenthal, who had no connection to the U.S. government, acted as an unofficial adviser to Clinton on Libya — and that she sent her own aides to chase down his leads, no matter how implausible."
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 1679
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2015 at 19:54
Actually, there was an ambassador recently who tried to set up his own private server, he was fired, from the state department.  Apparently, what is good for the goose is not good for the gander.  The Obama Whitehouse told Mrs. Clinton that she could not hire Blumenthal for the state department.  Making him an "advisor" was a way to get around President Obama's restrictions, preventing Blumenthal, a Clinton crony, from being hired.  So not only was Blumenthal not a State department employee, he was 'heck, no!' not a state department employee.

Americans have a very distorted view of revolutions.  When thinking about revolutions, one should think of the French or Russian, or the Cultural Revolution.
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 1679
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2015 at 23:13
Secretary of State Clinton and Susan(?) Rice (former UN ambassador) were hawkish women in the Obama administration who pushed for us to go into Libya, because of a concern for human rights.  Rice, in particular wrote a book or something "about" the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and Serbia and the role Bob Dole played in getting us as involved a we were, in the Balkans.  After WWII, Bob Dole was put back together by the donation of time and effort by an Armenian doctor, and so when ethnic cleansing started happening in the Balkans, Dole recognized that, "it was happening again."  Dole ran and lost the Presidency against Bill Clinton, but as a powerful senator he was able to manuever us into going in to the Balkans, despite the fact that the separation of powers says that the executive branch sets foreign policy.  I don't think that Bill was quite happy with this, but according to Rice in a television interview, that is how it worked out.  President Bill Clinton has expressed some regrets that we didn't use the military in Rwanda to prevent the genocide.  I assume that has some effect on Secretary Clinton's hawkish stance (relative to President Obama), towards Libya.  My point is, that despite personally looking at Hillary Rodham Clinton unfavorably, I think that there honestly were human rights issues motivating our involvement in Libya (but not necessarily _just_ human rights issues, as Rahm Immanuel would say, "never let a crisis go to waste." an evil little saying, if I ever heard one).  
In principle, I think that using the military to stop genocide is a worthy goal (in principle).  The problem is, is that it doesn't stop at that.

Now I am going to give a little story from Aesop, and it will sound like I am talking about foxes and other animals, but I am really talking about Libya, and Iraq, and Syria, etc.;)

There was this fox who was stuck in a thicket and covered in ticks and half dead from the loss of blood.  Along came another fox, and his heart went out to the first fox in such a predicament.  Not able to get the first fox out of the thicket, the other fox offered to pick off the ticks.  The first fox, replied to the second, "don't do that, these blood suckers are nearly full, but if you remove them, new ones will take their place, and they would suck me dry and finish me for good."

To paraphrase Baba O'Reilly, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss, just like yesterday, we get on our knees and pray, that we don't get fooled again!  (Who)
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 568
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2015 at 03:03
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Secretary of State Clinton and Susan(?) Rice (former UN ambassador) were hawkish women in the Obama administration who pushed for us to go into Libya, because of a concern for human rights.  Rice, in particular wrote a book or something "about" the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and Serbia and the role Bob Dole played in getting us as involved a we were, in the Balkans.  After WWII, Bob Dole was put back together by the donation of time and effort by an Armenian doctor, and so when ethnic cleansing started happening in the Balkans, Dole recognized that, "it was happening again."  Dole ran and lost the Presidency against Bill Clinton, but as a powerful senator he was able to manuever us into going in to the Balkans, despite the fact that the separation of powers says that the executive branch sets foreign policy.  I don't think that Bill was quite happy with this, but according to Rice in a television interview, that is how it worked out.  President Bill Clinton has expressed some regrets that we didn't use the military in Rwanda to prevent the genocide.  I assume that has some effect on Secretary Clinton's hawkish stance (relative to President Obama), towards Libya.  My point is, that despite personally looking at Hillary Rodham Clinton unfavorably, I think that there honestly were human rights issues motivating our involvement in Libya (but not necessarily _just_ human rights issues, as Rahm Immanuel would say, "never let a crisis go to waste." an evil little saying, if I ever heard one).  
In principle, I think that using the military to stop genocide is a worthy goal (in principle).  The problem is, is that it doesn't stop at that.

Now I am going to give a little story from Aesop, and it will sound like I am talking about foxes and other animals, but I am really talking about Libya, and Iraq, and Syria, etc.;)

There was this fox who was stuck in a thicket and covered in ticks and half dead from the loss of blood.  Along came another fox, and his heart went out to the first fox in such a predicament.  Not able to get the first fox out of the thicket, the other fox offered to pick off the ticks.  The first fox, replied to the second, "don't do that, these blood suckers are nearly full, but if you remove them, new ones will take their place, and they would suck me dry and finish me for good."

To paraphrase Baba O'Reilly, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss, just like yesterday, we get on our knees and pray, that we don't get fooled again!  (Who)


I think Susan Rice and Hillary Clinton are "Faux Hawks." Anytime you support a Sharia -regime you're taking a step back in time.

I find this reprehensible. You were correct about Gaddhafi we should have left him to deal with the rebels because he did work with us.

Our government couldn't tolerate the connection with Gaddhafi and Bashir. But since Obama was going to stick to anonymous droning and supplying weapons we could indirectly meddle without carpet bombing which looks bad for Nobel Peace prize winner.

This is inconsistent (surprise). Our government has often supported despots when it suited us, including Hitler and Stalin, Augusto Pinochet, François Duvalier and his son Jean-Claude (“Baby Doc”) in Haiti and don't we miss Hosni Mubarak ? Sometimes the devil you know...
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 1679
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2015 at 06:15
What is reprehensible?  Gaddhafi was pretty evil, but is that enough for us to de-stabilize the country?  We were believing our news reports about 'Arab Spring.'  It worked well with Tunisia, but I don't think it really worked anywhere else.  I think that Obama was genuinely embarassed by the Nobel Peace Prize.  There are three "he's not Bush" Noble Peace Prizes.  Carter, Gore and Obama.  Carter is probably the best ex-president we have had in recent memory.  Gore won it for "An Inconvenient Truth," but the science was off in his movie (but they liked the message), so they tacked on some scientists, who science was good, but who did not have the platform for getting out the message.  And of course, President Obama, who got it for his "potential?" which I think is tremendously unfair, because I got a lot of potential.  I may be a couch potato (actually comfy chair), but I'm willing to spring into action as soon as they give me a million or so dollars, funded by the man who invented dynamite.  
I don't think we supported Hitler? and we only supported Stalin, against Hitler.
I think it was Eisenhower who said, about Ngo Dien Dehm (sp?) that 'in the land of the blind, the one eyed men are king.'
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 568
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2015 at 07:27
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

What is reprehensible?  Gaddhafi was pretty evil, but is that enough for us to de-stabilize the country?  We were believing our news reports about 'Arab Spring.'  It worked well with Tunisia, but I don't think it really worked anywhere else.  I think that Obama was genuinely embarassed by the Nobel Peace Prize.  There are three "he's not Bush" Noble Peace Prizes.  Carter, Gore and Obama.  Carter is probably the best ex-president we have had in recent memory.  Gore won it for "An Inconvenient Truth," but the science was off in his movie (but they liked the message), so they tacked on some scientists, who science was good, but who did not have the platform for getting out the message.  And of course, President Obama, who got it for his "potential?" which I think is tremendously unfair, because I got a lot of potential.  I may be a couch potato (actually comfy chair), but I'm willing to spring into action as soon as they give me a million or so dollars, funded by the man who invented dynamite.  
I don't think we supported Hitler? and we only supported Stalin, against Hitler.
I think it was Eisenhower who said, about Ngo Dien Dehm (sp?) that 'in the land of the blind, the one eyed men are king.'


Reprehensible that the United States supported Sharia rebels over Gaddhafi.

Joseph Kennedy, William Randolph Hearst, Charles Lindbergh, John Rockefeller, and Andrew Mellon supported Hitler and the Nazis. In England Winston Churchill praised him as did Lord Mountbatten (So long as they were just talking about killing Jews).

Why do you say that Obama was embarrassed about Nobel Peace Prize?? From his acceptance speech-

"... perhaps the most profound issue surrounding my receipt of this prize is the fact that I am the commander-in-chief of the military of a nation in the midst of two wars. One of these wars is winding down. The other is a conflict that America did not seek; one in which we are joined by 42 other countries -- including Norway -- in an effort to defend ourselves and all nations from further attacks.

Still, we are at war, and I'm responsible for the deployment of thousands of young Americans to battle in a distant land. Some will kill, and some will be killed. And so I come here with an acute sense of the costs of armed conflict -- filled with difficult questions about the relationship between war and peace, and our effort to replace one with the other."

"Republican Representative Steve Stockman of Texas on Tuesday offered to change his vote and support a resolution to use force against Syria if Barack Obama is willing to give back his Nobel Peace Prize. It's not the first time the president's Nobel has been mentioned by people mocking his push for military strikes against Bashar al-Assad's regime. The anti-war president, calling for force! What a gas ...

But the joke may be on those who think our anti-war president has never made the case for using American military power, or read his speech on what he saw as its appropriate uses, delivered before the Nobel audience in Oslo, Norway, in December 2009. Because despite being the recipient of the prize, Obama introduced himself there as a war president, not an anti-war one:"

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/09/before-you-listen-to-obama-tonight-read-his-nobel-peace-prize-speech/279545/

Edited by Vanuatu - 25 May 2015 at 07:53
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 568
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2015 at 07:39
What the hell here's more of this peaceful president accepting his Nobel- Is the word Peace even in it?


"over time, as codes of law sought to control violence within groups, so did philosophers and clerics and statesmen seek to regulate the destructive power of war. The concept of a "just war" emerged, suggesting that war is justified only when certain conditions were met: if it is waged as a last resort or in self-defense; if the force used is proportional; and if, whenever possible, civilians are spared from violence ....

...with the advent of the nuclear age, it became clear to victor and vanquished alike that the world needed institutions to prevent another world war. And so, a quarter century after the United States Senate rejected the League of Nations -- an idea for which Woodrow Wilson received this prize -- America led the world in constructing an architecture to keep the peace: a Marshall Plan and a United Nations, mechanisms to govern the waging of war, treaties to protect human rights, prevent genocide, restrict the most dangerous weapons.

We must begin by acknowledging the hard truth: We will not eradicate violent conflict in our lifetimes. There will be times when nations -- acting individually or in concert -- will find the use of force not only necessary but morally justified....

To say that force may sometimes be necessary is not a call to cynicism -- it is a recognition of history; the imperfections of man and the limits of reason.

Even as we make difficult decisions about going to war, we must also think clearly about how we fight it. The Nobel Committee recognized this truth in awarding its first prize for peace to Henry Dunant -- the founder of the Red Cross, and a driving force behind the Geneva Conventions.

Where force is necessary, we have a moral and strategic interest in binding ourselves to certain rules of conduct. And even as we confront a vicious adversary that abides by no rules, I believe the United States of America must remain a standard bearer in the conduct of war.

B-Barry O.

"The only vice that cannot be forgiven is hypocrisy. The repentance of a hypocrite is itself hypocrisy."

William Hazlitt



Edited by Vanuatu - 25 May 2015 at 07:49
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 568
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2015 at 16:59
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Secretary of State Clinton and Susan(?) Rice (former UN ambassador) were hawkish women in the Obama administration who pushed for us to go into Libya, because of a concern for human rights.  Rice, in particular wrote a book or something "about" the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and Serbia and the role Bob Dole played in getting us as involved a we were, in the Balkans.  After WWII, Bob Dole was put back together by the donation of time and effort by an Armenian doctor, and so when ethnic cleansing started happening in the Balkans, Dole recognized that, "it was happening again."  Dole ran and lost the Presidency against Bill Clinton, but as a powerful senator he was able to manuever us into going in to the Balkans, despite the fact that the separation of powers says that the executive branch sets foreign policy.  I don't think that Bill was quite happy with this, but according to Rice in a television interview, that is how it worked out.  President Bill Clinton has expressed some regrets that we didn't use the military in Rwanda to prevent the genocide.  I assume that has some effect on Secretary Clinton's hawkish stance (relative to President Obama), towards Libya.  My point is, that despite personally looking at Hillary Rodham Clinton unfavorably, I think that there honestly were human rights issues motivating our involvement in Libya (but not necessarily _just_ human rights issues, as Rahm Immanuel would say, "never let a crisis go to waste." an evil little saying, if I ever heard one).  
In principle, I think that using the military to stop genocide is a worthy goal (in principle).  The problem is, is that it doesn't stop at that.

Now I am going to give a little story from Aesop, and it will sound like I am talking about foxes and other animals, but I am really talking about Libya, and Iraq, and Syria, etc.;)

There was this fox who was stuck in a thicket and covered in ticks and half dead from the loss of blood.  Along came another fox, and his heart went out to the first fox in such a predicament.  Not able to get the first fox out of the thicket, the other fox offered to pick off the ticks.  The first fox, replied to the second, "don't do that, these blood suckers are nearly full, but if you remove them, new ones will take their place, and they would suck me dry and finish me for good."

To paraphrase Baba O'Reilly, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss, just like yesterday, we get on our knees and pray, that we don't get fooled again!  (Who)


I think Susan Rice and Hillary Clinton are "Faux Hawks." Anytime you support a Sharia -regime you're taking a step back in time.

I find this reprehensible. You were correct about Gaddhafi we should have left him to deal with the rebels because he did work with us.

Our government couldn't tolerate the connection with Gaddhafi and Bashir. But since Obama was going to stick to anonymous droning and supplying weapons we could indirectly meddle without carpet bombing which looks bad for Nobel Peace prize winner.

This is inconsistent (surprise). Our government has often supported despots when it suited us, including Hitler and Stalin, Augusto Pinochet, François Duvalier and his son Jean-Claude (“Baby Doc”) in Haiti and don't we miss Hosni Mubarak ? Sometimes the devil you know...


have you got a source for that tick story?
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 1679
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2015 at 19:27
It is in Aesop, The Complete Fables, in Penguin Classics, tr. by Olivia and Robert Temple.  I cannot find the particular story, but it is of a fox and another animal (probably not a second fox).
I wouldn't be surprised if it could be found in other collections.  btw, Aesop's fables were used to make a point in speeches and legal disputes.
Also, btw, the generic term "Aesop's fables" is also used for animals outside of the Greek world, such as the camel or the hyena.  Just coincidently, some these are technically "Libyan stories."

Susan Rice's concern about genocide is genuine,  I watched an interview of her years ago, on Cspan's Booknotes.  Hilary's may or may not be opportunistic.  I wouldn't put that past her, but I don't know that for sure.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 568
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2015 at 19:59
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

It is in Aesop, The Complete Fables, in Penguin Classics, tr. by Olivia and Robert Temple.  I cannot find the particular story, but it is of a fox and another animal (probably not a second fox).
I wouldn't be surprised if it could be found in other collections.  btw, Aesop's fables were used to make a point in speeches and legal disputes.
Also, btw, the generic term "Aesop's fables" is also used for animals outside of the Greek world, such as the camel or the hyena.  Just coincidently, some these are technically "Libyan stories."

Susan Rice's concern about genocide is genuine,  I watched an interview of her years ago, on Cspan's Booknotes.  Hilary's may or may not be opportunistic.  I wouldn't put that past her, but I don't know that for sure.


Thank you for the information.
I'm sure most of us have legitimate concerns about genocide. Many of us also care whether woman are subjected to Sharia Law.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 568
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2015 at 01:49
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Secretary of State Clinton and Susan(?) Rice (former UN ambassador) were hawkish women in the Obama administration who pushed for us to go into Libya, because of a concern for human rights.  Rice, in particular wrote a book or something "about" the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and Serbia and the role Bob Dole played in getting us as involved a we were, in the Balkans.  After WWII, Bob Dole was put back together by the donation of time and effort by an Armenian doctor, and so when ethnic cleansing started happening in the Balkans, Dole recognized that, "it was happening again."  Dole ran and lost the Presidency against Bill Clinton, but as a powerful senator he was able to manuever us into going in to the Balkans, despite the fact that the separation of powers says that the executive branch sets foreign policy.  I don't think that Bill was quite happy with this, but according to Rice in a television interview, that is how it worked out.  President Bill Clinton has expressed some regrets that we didn't use the military in Rwanda to prevent the genocide.  I assume that has some effect on Secretary Clinton's hawkish stance (relative to President Obama), towards Libya.  My point is, that despite personally looking at Hillary Rodham Clinton unfavorably, I think that there honestly were human rights issues motivating our involvement in Libya (but not necessarily _just_ human rights issues, as Rahm Immanuel would say, "never let a crisis go to waste." an evil little saying, if I ever heard one).  
In principle, I think that using the military to stop genocide is a worthy goal (in principle).  The problem is, is that it doesn't stop at that.

Now I am going to give a little story from Aesop, and it will sound like I am talking about foxes and other animals, but I am really talking about Libya, and Iraq, and Syria, etc.;)

There was this fox who was stuck in a thicket and covered in ticks and half dead from the loss of blood.  Along came another fox, and his heart went out to the first fox in such a predicament.  Not able to get the first fox out of the thicket, the other fox offered to pick off the ticks.  The first fox, replied to the second, "don't do that, these blood suckers are nearly full, but if you remove them, new ones will take their place, and they would suck me dry and finish me for good."

To paraphrase Baba O'Reilly, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss, just like yesterday, we get on our knees and pray, that we don't get fooled again!  (Who)


I think Susan Rice and Hillary Clinton are "Faux Hawks." Anytime you support a Sharia -regime you're taking a step back in time.

I find this reprehensible. You were correct about Gaddhafi we should have left him to deal with the rebels because he did work with us.

Our government couldn't tolerate the connection with Gaddhafi and Bashir. But since Obama was going to stick to anonymous droning and supplying weapons we could indirectly meddle without carpet bombing which looks bad for Nobel Peace prize winner.

This is inconsistent (surprise). Our government has often supported despots when it suited us, including Hitler and Stalin, Augusto Pinochet, François Duvalier and his son Jean-Claude (“Baby Doc”) in Haiti and don't we miss Hosni Mubarak ? Sometimes the devil you know...


have you got a source for that tick story?


Is this the story? If so would you mind explaining the connection to the discussion?
Further, if an author has perfectly articulated a point in a few sentences, why then translate that idea into "my own words?" One risks changing the intent and therefore the meaning. The author gets credit, the idea is related as intended and the source is verifiable.

Is the point that Gadhafi should have been left alone to deal with the rebels? If so then then what have you taught me? That is exactly what I've said.


What exactly is the point of jumbling a quote as you did with this "Tick" story?

THE HEDGEHOG, THE FOX AND THE TICKS

Aesop was defending a demagogue at Samos who was on trial for his life when he told this story:
'A fox was crossing a river but she got swept by the current into a gully. A long time passed and she couldn't get out. Meanwhile, there were ticks swarming all over the fox's body, making her quite miserable. A hedgehog wandered by and happened to see the fox. He took pity on her and asked if he should remove the ticks, but the fox refused. The hedgehog asked the reason why, and the fox replied, "These ticks have taken their fill of me and are barely sucking my blood at this point, but if you take these ticks away, others will come and those hungry new ticks will drink up all the blood I have left!"
And the same is true for you, people of Samos: this man will do you no harm since he is already wealthy, but if you condemn him to death, others will come who do not have any money, and they will rob you blind!'


Edited by Vanuatu - 26 May 2015 at 01:57
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.156 seconds.