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Climate change?
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franciscosan View Drop Down
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    Posted: 25 Aug 2019 at 05:10
Climate change is probably better, and worse, than you think.

Q: where was sparkling wine invented?

A: not in Champagne, but by monks in England during the Middle Ages.

Remember, Vikings had settlements in Greenland, it was warm at that time in England too.  But, the weather changed, and they got frozen out. What happened is called the Little Ice Age, which lasted from 1300-1850 but by 1850, industrialization had picked up, global warming picked up, and that probably ended an ice age that was in progress, without that black carbon on the snow, and CO2, we would probably be in an ice age.  So yes, global warming is probably real, but it has good influences as well as bad.  Wouldn't be ironic if we "cured" global warming, and started an ice age up, and ice age that would be going on, but except for global warming?

_The Little Ice Age, How Climate Made History, 1300-1850_ by Brian Fagan
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toyomotor View Drop Down
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Points: 5395 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2019 at 13:39
I don't disagree with you, but the majority of people talking about climate change are ignoring the non-human influences being exerted on our planet.

The earths' axis is moving ever so slightly but resulting in temperature change, as is the movement of tectonic plates. For example, the plate on which continental Australia sits is moving to the north and east, again influencing climate change.

Sure, humans play a large role in the health of our planet, but some things are simply beyond our control.
From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph)
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Vanuatu View Drop Down
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Points: 2244 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2019 at 00:48
There is a theory that Krakatoa erupting caused the little Ice Age. Amusing to hear all the fear and loathing about carbon, as we are carbon based life forms. A delay in the development of collecting excess carbon is a 'human caused' crisis. Some fake crisis-es out there too..
The quotes are from a business researcher who helps employers reduce 'problems' real and imagined.
Right now the Amazon is basically on fire, and north of 80% of these latest were deliberately set by people as in the US.
Tolkien said that a prisoner's mind need not be confined to the prison walls, here the prison is politics IMO. 
Running thousands of computer simulations designed to predict rising temperatures and how much carbon can be gathered and reused as a synthetic fuel, gave politics a reason to delay. Politicians are glad to see that after thousands of simulations the heat index rising threat remains at 1.5-2 degrees Celsius. 
They might cry about it on tv but inside they are working out how to do the carbon removal more cheaply than originally proposed, rather than developing the technology. Not every climatologist has confidence in the application of the process. Won't we always have problems?

 "As we reduce the prevalence of a problem, such as discrimination for example, we judge each new behavior in the improved context that we have created...Another way to say this is that solving problems causes us to expand our definitions of them," he concluded that, "When problems become rare, we count more things as problems."

In some respects, this is a form of confirmation bias focused on negative outcomes. You are looking for problems so you find problems.

"We had volunteers look at thousands of dots on a computer screen one at a time and decide if each was or was not blue," Gilbert said. When they lowered the number of blue dots on the screen, dots that were previously considered purple we now reclassified as blue. They were looking for blue and found it, even when it wasn't there.

In another experiment, when subjects were shown faces, as the number of threatening faces was reduced, "people began to identify neutral faces as threatening."



Edited by Vanuatu - 29 Aug 2019 at 00:02
Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
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toyomotor View Drop Down
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Krakatoa last erupted on 26–27 August 1883, by far the biggest in it's recorded history. The islanders left in large numbers never to return.

I've not read any reports of Krakatoa's eruption having any lasting effect on world climate.
From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph)
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Vanuatu View Drop Down
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Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Krakatoa last erupted on 26–27 August 1883, by far the biggest in it's recorded history. The islanders left in large numbers never to return.

I've not read any reports of Krakatoa's eruption having any lasting effect on world climate.
Oh thank you that's right! It did cause very cold temperatures in North America it was recorded that did happen. 
The eruption of Krakatoa, or Krakatau, in August 1883 was one of the most deadly volcanic eruptions of modern history. It is estimated that more than 36,000 people died. Many died as a result of thermal injury from the blasts and many more were victims of the tsunamis that followed the collapse of the volcano into the caldera below sea level. The eruption also affected the climate and caused temperatures to drop all over the world.

My mistake was mis-remembering that a geo-layer does support the idea that volcanic eruptions caused the European Little Ice Age.

Miller and colleagues came to these conclusions by looking at radiocarbon dates — based on how much of the radioactive form of carbon they contain — from dead plants revealed by melting ice on Baffin Island, in the Canadian Arctic. Their analysis found that many plants at both high and low altitudes died between A.D. 1275 and A.D. 1300 — evidence that Baffin Island froze over suddenly. Many plants also appeared to have died at around A.D. 1450, an indication of a second major cooling.

These periods coincide with two of the most volcanically active half centuries in the past millennium, according to the researchers.



Edited by Vanuatu - 11 Sep 2019 at 12:10
Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
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franciscosan View Drop Down
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Points: 10507 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2019 at 13:19
For a few years after Krakatoa, you had "Krakatoa sunsets," brilliant sunsets around the world because of the dust.  Such as was illustrated in Edward Munch's painting, "the Scream".  but no it did not have 
lasting_ effect, but for a few years, the seasons were effected.

V, you really should make sure your links work:(  I would prefer you fixing it, so that anyone coming across it won't have to fix it to use it.
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Vanuatu View Drop Down
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Points: 2244 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2019 at 14:20
"V, you really should make sure your links work:(  I would prefer you fixing it, so that anyone coming across it won't have to fix it to use it."
It's true but it's not always a problem. I've done Explorer check & I'm ok with the forum. I see that they work but then later other can't access , it's the error 404 message right?
Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
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franciscosan View Drop Down
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Points: 10507 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 09:46
I don't think so, it reads http://https://.........., you do a "double" http://

When 9/11 happened, planes stopped flying for a day(?) or more throughout the continental United States, when that happened the temperature went up a few degrees.  Turns out scientists determined that contrails reflect back up a certain amount of sunlight, thus lowering the temperature on the ground.
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caldrail View Drop Down
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Hmmm... Not entirely convinced about that. Whilst a contrail might indeed reflect a certain amount of sunlight, the contrails - being essentially formed from ice at high altitude, don't have a great coverage of the sky.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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franciscosan View Drop Down
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Points: 10507 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 10:53
I am not asking you to be convinced.  I heard it on a TV program (weather, not 9/11), and so I can't direct you anywhere in particular.  But, you might look for it to see if you can confirm it, or specifically deny it.  Of course, we are always told that we are warming the planet, it would be interesting if sometimes we do the opposite.
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