| FORUM | ARCHIVE |                    | TOTAL QUIZ RESULT |


  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Climate Control
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Welcome stranger, click here to read about some of the great benefits of registering for a free account with us and joining us in our global online community.


Climate Control

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 5443
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Climate Control
    Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 15:58
Apart from the Corona Virus, the most discussed topic recently is that of Climate Control.

Governments are being urged to do more to cut carbon emissions and atmospheric pollution, but people are overlooking some very relevant aspects of our climate changes-
  • Earth's Axis-is moving each year, meaning that climates on the northern and southern most countries are changing more than the rest of the world, but still effecting climate world wide;
  • Tectonic Plate-The Tectonic Plates which form earth's surface are moving causing earthquakes and, in some areas either increase or decrease in temperature;
  • Population-At present, Earth's population is estimated at 7.7billion people. Some say that we are already overpopulated, and that can be demonstrated to a certain degree by the situation of starvation and disease on the African continent. A population of about 9-10 billion seems to be the top limit. Indications are that the world population will reach 8-10.5 billion by 2050, and will not be sustainable.
That being the case, it becomes obvious that one aspect of our climate control lies in population control, which has failed to date despite major efforts in countries already identified as being overpopulated, and poverty stricken.

Is population control even feasible?

Could it be achieved and if so, by what means?

It's obvious that something has to happen if human kind are to exist into the future.




Edited by toyomotor - 04 Mar 2020 at 16:01
From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph)
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
caldrail View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Rushey Platt
Status: Offline
Points: 1368
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 22:10
This is exactly the nightmare question I have hinted at for some time now. Whilst I have become adamant that population levels are the root cause of our current global woes, how does one address that? It leads to some drastic and quite unconfortable ideas. I suspect that with politicians unable to risk public reaction based on rights, lifestyles, ambitions, or even simply conformity with normal expectations, that we might simply have to continue until nature gets the better of us.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 2353
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2020 at 09:04
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Apart from the Corona Virus, the most discussed topic recently is that of Climate Control.

Governments are being urged to do more to cut carbon emissions and atmospheric pollution, but people are overlooking some very relevant aspects of our climate changes-
  • Earth's Axis-is moving each year, meaning that climates on the northern and southern most countries are changing more than the rest of the world, but still effecting climate world wide;
  • Tectonic Plate-The Tectonic Plates which form earth's surface are moving causing earthquakes and, in some areas either increase or decrease in temperature;
  • Population-At present, Earth's population is estimated at 7.7billion people. Some say that we are already overpopulated, and that can be demonstrated to a certain degree by the situation of starvation and disease on the African continent. A population of about 9-10 billion seems to be the top limit. Indications are that the world population will reach 8-10.5 billion by 2050, and will not be sustainable.
  • toyomotor, in the 1980's Time, Life magazine, 60 Minutes et al did feature stories on the coming Ice Age, population was expected to be at 8 billion by 2000 or sooner and killer Africanized BEES were due to bring a movie of the week style pestilence to the US by 1985. These are things that kept me up at night. None of it ever happened in fact we almost killed all of the bees on the planet.
  • Energy companies can remove carbon from the atmosphere. They are not doing it because they want a synthetic reusable fuel in order to make the endeavor profitable. It's currently not feasible because carbon based life forms absorb carbon. How much? They don't know. Computer models don't change, if Exxon could capitalize on carbon don't you think they would have?

  • The body temperatures of humans have lowered since the Civil War. We are eating and breathing plastic yet we endure it's just not entirely understood.
  • The polar bear population has increased to 3x times that of the 1970's.
  • Yes the planet is changing but we can't control the effects of outer space on the temperature or shifting of tectonic plates. 
  • So I say this is not the case. We pollute too much and there are basic things that everyone could do to reduce pollution. In fact that is not what the Green movement is interested in, this is a political movement that is astonishing in it's ability to lie and bring fear to young people just as they did in my generation. 
  • Quote That being the case, it becomes obvious that one aspect of our climate control lies in population control, which has failed to date despite major efforts in countries already identified as being overpopulated, and poverty stricken.

    Is population control even feasible?

    Could it be achieved and if so, by what means?

    It's obvious that something has to happen if human kind are to exist into the future.


    Africa is poor bc of political and tribal conflict, there is no mass starvation due to lack of food donations only the inability to reach people afflicted by corrupt governments. Population control is available and it's usually free to the woman who needs it, do want abortion house calls? 

    Why can't a adult female/male couple manage to avoid pregnancy in this day and age?
    Xenobiotics are being used by Agriculture to de-sex the population in US.
    Don't worry the Globalists are on it!!


    Edited by Vanuatu - 05 Mar 2020 at 09:06
    Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
    Back to Top
    toyomotor View Drop Down
    Moderator
    Moderator
    Avatar

    Joined: 15 Feb 2014
    Location: Tasmania, AUST.
    Status: Offline
    Points: 5443
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2020 at 12:02
    Vanuatu wrote
    Quote Africa is poor bc of political and tribal conflict, there is no mass starvation due to lack of food donations only the inability to reach people afflicted by corrupt governments. Population control is available and it's usually free to the woman who needs it, do want abortion house calls?

    1. Many African people are dying due to starvation and related illnesses-that is incontrovertible;
    2. The fact that many Africans rely heavily on food donations is, prima facie, evidence of their lack of sustainability whether it be population numbers, draught, disease or pure political inaction/corruption;
    3. In the Third World countries programmes have been set up in the past to encourage people to voluntarily practise birth control. They have not worked. As to the question of "who need it" in many countries women have no real control over their own bodies, "who need it" is not really the issue.

    From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph)
    Back to Top
    franciscosan View Drop Down
    WorldHistoria Master
    WorldHistoria Master


    Joined: 09 Feb 2015
    Location: Littleton CO
    Status: Offline
    Points: 10551
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2020 at 12:14
    I would suggest watching Hans Rosling's TED talks on demographics.  His report in Abu Dhabi (or was it Qatar), is particularly relevant.  The short of it, we are answering the population problems, it just that it cannot happen over night.  Books like the Population Bomb were used by dictators in the seventies, to justify massacring the opposition.  Not only that, but it doesn't work since you tend to get population surges after kill offs.  Or so I seem to remember.  Hans Rosling.  Large families are usually the result of instability and high child mortality rates.  If you don't have to worry about that 2 (or 3) is the usual family size in modern industrialized centers.
    Back to Top
    Vanuatu View Drop Down
    Administrator
    Administrator
    Avatar

    Joined: 24 Feb 2015
    Location: New England
    Status: Offline
    Points: 2353
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2020 at 12:43
    Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

    Vanuatu wrote
    Quote Africa is poor bc of political and tribal conflict, there is no mass starvation due to lack of food donations only the inability to reach people afflicted by corrupt governments. Population control is available and it's usually free to the woman who needs it, do want abortion house calls?

    1. Many African people are dying due to starvation and related illnesses-that is incontrovertible;
    2. The fact that many Africans rely heavily on food donations is, prima facie, evidence of their lack of sustainability whether it be population numbers, draught, disease or pure political inaction/corruption;
    3. In the Third World countries programmes have been set up in the past to encourage people to voluntarily practise birth control. They have not worked. As to the question of "who need it" in many countries women have no real control over their own bodies, "who need it" is not really the issue.

    Why don't you provide evidence of the massive birth rates in Africa?
    Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
    Back to Top
    toyomotor View Drop Down
    Moderator
    Moderator
    Avatar

    Joined: 15 Feb 2014
    Location: Tasmania, AUST.
    Status: Offline
    Points: 5443
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2020 at 14:17
    Quote Birth rate is the number of lives births per 1,000 of the population each year. The vast majority of the countries in the world with the highest fertility rates are in Africa, with Niger topping the list at 7.153 children per woman, followed by Somalia at 6.123 children per woman.Feb 17, 2020 Wiki

    Google it.
    From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph)
    Back to Top
    Vanuatu View Drop Down
    Administrator
    Administrator
    Avatar

    Joined: 24 Feb 2015
    Location: New England
    Status: Offline
    Points: 2353
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2020 at 23:47
    Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

    Quote Birth rate is the number of lives births per 1,000 of the population each year. The vast majority of the countries in the world with the highest fertility rates are in Africa, with Niger topping the list at 7.153 children per woman, followed by Somalia at 6.123 children per woman.Feb 17, 2020 Wiki

    Google it.
    Yes ok that's a fraction of the analysis -google this;
    African overpopulation in context

    If 1.3 billion Africans are living in cities by 2050 this will still be lower than the population of China, which has already passed 1.4 billion people. This doesn’t mean overpopulation isn’t a concern for African nations. It absolutely is. But it’s important to keep things in context and look at how Europe manages sustainability despite its huge population. Or how America feeds and educates its people as a single nation that consumes roughly 25% of the entire world’s resources.

    It’s easy to say African populations will reach x-figure by y-date and make overpopulation sounds like a global crisis. Let’s not forget that the US, Europe and Japan suck up 80% of the world’s resources between them and ask why Africa isn’t getting its fair share – instead of devising investment strategies design to prevent the growth of African populations.

    Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
    Back to Top
    toyomotor View Drop Down
    Moderator
    Moderator
    Avatar

    Joined: 15 Feb 2014
    Location: Tasmania, AUST.
    Status: Offline
    Points: 5443
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 10:56
    The OP wasn't just about Africa, it was about the world.

    Humans have done a pretty fair job in polluting the planet in so many ways, that the future is difficult to predict. We are the cause of the failing planet.

    Getting back to the OP, is there a case for birth control, in addition to the pollution problems?
    From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph)
    Back to Top
    Vanuatu View Drop Down
    Administrator
    Administrator
    Avatar

    Joined: 24 Feb 2015
    Location: New England
    Status: Offline
    Points: 2353
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2020 at 19:25
    What kind of birth control? 
    Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
    Back to Top
    Vanuatu View Drop Down
    Administrator
    Administrator
    Avatar

    Joined: 24 Feb 2015
    Location: New England
    Status: Offline
    Points: 2353
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2020 at 01:46
    1. Quote
    2. In the Third World countries programmes have been set up in the past to encourage people to voluntarily practise birth control. They have not worked. As to the question of "who need it" in many countries women have no real control over their own bodies, "who need it" is not really the issue.
    3. Again Third World countries are NOT SUCKING UP ALL THE RESOURCES!
    4. How do you know that women in third world countries want to abort their kids?
    5. Want not Australian women? Let them start executing their offspring.
    Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
    Back to Top
    toyomotor View Drop Down
    Moderator
    Moderator
    Avatar

    Joined: 15 Feb 2014
    Location: Tasmania, AUST.
    Status: Offline
    Points: 5443
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2020 at 11:57
    If human kind are the real problem on Earth, and I think overall they are, I'm asking your views on a very controversial subject. 

    It must be accepted that some countries are so over populated that the country itself is unsustainable, couple that with non-effective or corrupt governments and there is a real problem.

    All I'm asking you for is a discussion on the topic, not an argument.
    From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph)
    Back to Top
    Vanuatu View Drop Down
    Administrator
    Administrator
    Avatar

    Joined: 24 Feb 2015
    Location: New England
    Status: Offline
    Points: 2353
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2020 at 12:58
    It's a false premise. That is causing the argument, NO population in third world is causing climate change.
    Climate change won't be affected by ending lives that are meant to sustain the planet for a larger, older population.

    The impact on the planet is greatest in developed countries who have access to third term abortion. Even a clubbing after birth is ok with Virginia and New York.

    World Population is declining. There is more than enough food to sustain 10 billion people. Innovation is required to maintain low levels of pollution. 

    Globalist distort conditions in third world countries, neglect infant/maternal and generally higher mortality rates.
    Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
    Back to Top
    Vanuatu View Drop Down
    Administrator
    Administrator
    Avatar

    Joined: 24 Feb 2015
    Location: New England
    Status: Offline
    Points: 2353
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2020 at 01:43
    Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

    If human kind are the real problem on Earth, and I think overall they are, I'm asking your views on a very controversial subject. 

    It must be accepted that some countries are so over populated that the country itself is unsustainable, couple that with non-effective or corrupt governments and there is a real problem.

    All I'm asking you for is a discussion on the topic, not an argument.
    Understood. I apologize for being obnoxious.
    I don't want to argue with malice, you are sounding like the American Left/Socialist/AOC Green New Deal crowd. So I feel the misinformation should be corrected. I suppose I can do that on another thread. 
    No offense intended to you toyomotor, I like to read your posts.
    Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
    Back to Top
    toyomotor View Drop Down
    Moderator
    Moderator
    Avatar

    Joined: 15 Feb 2014
    Location: Tasmania, AUST.
    Status: Offline
    Points: 5443
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2020 at 11:20
    The fact is that scientists have corroborated what I have said about the earth's axis and tectonic plate movement.

    Sure, humans contribute the the problem but to what extent? 

    Some scientists are taking a view that depleted aquifers, concentrated concrete construction and land mass are also effecting climate change.

    I'm open to discussions to the contrary.
    From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph)
    Back to Top
    toyomotor View Drop Down
    Moderator
    Moderator
    Avatar

    Joined: 15 Feb 2014
    Location: Tasmania, AUST.
    Status: Offline
    Points: 5443
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2020 at 11:32
    From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph)
    Back to Top
    franciscosan View Drop Down
    WorldHistoria Master
    WorldHistoria Master


    Joined: 09 Feb 2015
    Location: Littleton CO
    Status: Offline
    Points: 10551
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 03:59
    PJ O'Rourke had an essay about how the problem for Bangladesh was not population, but the fact that it leadership has been disrupted twice in 50 years, first with the partition of India, and second with the dissolution of East Pakistan.  It does not help that India plays around with the dams upriver, and that Muslim refugees are coming in from Burma.

    The climate scientists seem to simplify human influence on the climate, while there are other factors.  Let us say that we hobble industry with a "green new deal" or something like that.  Okay, what then?, will we be able to tell the difference? will we be able to reverse it if we need to? will we be able to tell the cause and effect of our efforts, or will it be obscured, to what extent is this (at all) a controlled experiment?

    In the mean time, hobbling industry will have a negative effect, but we will probably all get the socialism
    that radicals have wet dreams about, and its 'totalitarian' influences.
    Back to Top
    toyomotor View Drop Down
    Moderator
    Moderator
    Avatar

    Joined: 15 Feb 2014
    Location: Tasmania, AUST.
    Status: Offline
    Points: 5443
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2020 at 10:32
    Still, Getting back to the OP, is there a case for birth control, in addition to the pollution solutions?
    From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph)
    Back to Top
    franciscosan View Drop Down
    WorldHistoria Master
    WorldHistoria Master


    Joined: 09 Feb 2015
    Location: Littleton CO
    Status: Offline
    Points: 10551
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2020 at 10:13
    There already is birth control, generally you have replacement rate (2 parents, 2 children) for population except in places that have a higher infant mortality rate due to disease, famine and war.  toyomotor, I imagine that you are dealing with old data, such as that put out by Paul Ehrlich with "The Population Bomb," (which was used by tyrants to justify mass killings).  So, what kind of "birth control" are you talking about, "forced sterilization," "forced abortion"?  Little bit of euthanasia???

    People in general _do_ birth control, after they get to an affluent, secure position.  If you had actually watched Hans Rosling's TED talks, you might know what is actually going on.  The Rosling video that is particularly relevant is the one he is doing at Doha or Abu Dubai, or something like that (Arab site).  Rosling is a demographer, in other words, he is actually some who knows about this stuff.

    You are asking "is there a case for birth control?" seems to indicate you don't know what is happening already.  Or maybe you are aware of what is happening already and in a tyrannical manner want to impose "more."  No, I don't think that tyrannical methods will 'fix' the problems.  It may 'fix' problems in one corner, but exacerbate other problems elsewhere.  It may 'fix' a population like a vet fixes a dog, making it broken in another way.  Unlike dogs however, people would resent such fixing, would resent it and work against society to fight back.  Again, I would suggest Hans Rosling and his TED talks and videos.
    Back to Top
    toyomotor View Drop Down
    Moderator
    Moderator
    Avatar

    Joined: 15 Feb 2014
    Location: Tasmania, AUST.
    Status: Offline
    Points: 5443
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2020 at 15:50
    1. No.
    2. No.
    3. Nope.

    Not read Erlich, not wanting to be a tyrant, aware of birth control measures taken in most countries. (NOTE: China's one child policy has broken down)

    What I'm asking is for your point of view on our current population (7.7 billion), whether or not it is impacting on our climate, and whether, if the population continues to increase, there are more intensive birth control measures that could/should be put in place.

    Can Earth sustain billions of more people?

    I don't have the answers, that's why I'm asking you
    From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph)
    Back to Top
    caldrail View Drop Down
    Moderator
    Moderator
    Avatar

    Joined: 21 Jan 2014
    Location: Rushey Platt
    Status: Offline
    Points: 1368
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2020 at 22:15
    Quote Can Earth sustain billions of more people?
    Well... Yes... Sort of. But increasing numbers brings more vulnerability as the Coronavirus pandemic illustrates. However, I am very much of the opinion that our global population density and it's increasing western style consumerism is the root cause of our climatic woes rather than simply saying we have too much CO2.
     
    There are already predictions we will have to switch to insect protein because animal husbandry is too inefficient and requires too much land to organise.
    http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
    Back to Top
    Vanuatu View Drop Down
    Administrator
    Administrator
    Avatar

    Joined: 24 Feb 2015
    Location: New England
    Status: Offline
    Points: 2353
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2020 at 00:00
    fransicosan is right about the book "Population Bomb" -Paul Ehrlich

    It became an excuse for mass murder of brown and black skinned people. The US census famously under counts the black population in the US, they simply refuse to respond as do many ethnic groups. In poor countries the tendency to over count is desirable bc it insures more international aid.

    When populations are educated and women have access to contraception then birthrates plummet. In India for example the taboo against birth control still exists but the pollution insures high mortality rates making the actual population numbers spurious if not inflated.

    There are attempts at producing eatable plant based sustenance that contains nutrition but very little actual food. They start with a few cells from a pea plant and infuse lab grown carbs and starches. The meat industry has created a situation where animal products are less healthy bc of attempts to prevent disease and expedite growth with chemical additives. Also feeding grain to animals that are meant too eat grass has contributed to obesity and infertility in humans .

    Thinking forward, if over time humans consume less and still get adequate nutrition then the earth could sustain higher populations. It's hard for me to imagine a future where man-woman create x number of children as they wish. 

    I anticipate selection of desirable traits by the elite classes. Socialism will insure an enormous class of people with no autonomy and a ruling class who choose future generations by virtue of scientific value.

    I don't hope for that scenario, or see it as a certainty. 
    Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
    Back to Top
    Vanuatu View Drop Down
    Administrator
    Administrator
    Avatar

    Joined: 24 Feb 2015
    Location: New England
    Status: Offline
    Points: 2353
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2020 at 00:13

    Population control: Is it a tool of the rich?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-15449959Work in progress

    For Mohan Rao, it is an example of how even the Cairo consensus fails to take account of the developing world.

    "Cairo had some good things," he says. "However Cairo was driven largely by First World feminist agendas. Reproductive rights are all very well, but [there needs to be] a whole lot of other kinds of enabling rights before women can access reproductive rights. You need rights to food, employment, water, justice and fair wages. Without all these you cannot have reproductive rights."

    Perhaps, then, the humanitarian ideals of Cairo are still a work in progress.

    Meanwhile, Paul Ehrlich has also amended his view of the issue.

    If he were to write his book today, "I wouldn't focus on the poverty-stricken masses", he told the BBC.

    "I would focus on there being too many rich people. It's crystal clear that we can't support seven billion people in the style of the wealthier Americans."

    Mike Gallager is the producer of the radio programme Controlling People on BBC World Service


    Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
    Back to Top
    toyomotor View Drop Down
    Moderator
    Moderator
    Avatar

    Joined: 15 Feb 2014
    Location: Tasmania, AUST.
    Status: Offline
    Points: 5443
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2020 at 11:37
    OK, but I'm not proposing international birth control, my comments have been taken out of context.

    The OP was about climate control, and how human kind are impacting on it.

    Unfortunately, too many people are ignoring the change in earth's axis and the movement of tectonic plates.

    The rise in temperatures, in some countries, is allegedly contributed to by human activity-logging of the Amazon is having a disastrous impact on the environment in general on the local climate.

    The matter of birth control was thrown in for discussion purposes, not to elicit nasty, sarcastic comments.
    From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph)
    Back to Top
    Vanuatu View Drop Down
    Administrator
    Administrator
    Avatar

    Joined: 24 Feb 2015
    Location: New England
    Status: Offline
    Points: 2353
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2020 at 13:36
    Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

    OK, but I'm not proposing international birth control, my comments have been taken out of context.

    The OP was about climate control, and how human kind are impacting on it.

    Unfortunately, too many people are ignoring the change in earth's axis and the movement of tectonic plates.

    The rise in temperatures, in some countries, is allegedly contributed to by human activity-logging of the Amazon is having a disastrous impact on the environment in general on the local climate.

    The matter of birth control was thrown in for discussion purposes, not to elicit nasty, sarcastic comments.
    Deforestation, pollution even plastic plankton, could be causing changes in the recurring 90,000-100,000 year obliquity cycle of earth shape shifting and warming/cooling. 
    The Milankovitch cycles.
    When the planet's orbital plane becomes circular it means warmer temperatures, the elliptical orbital plane means cooler temperatures.

    Is your concern the wobble that NASA sees? Presession

      For instance, the model shows that around 125,000 years ago, northern Africa and the Arabian Peninsula experienced increased and more northerly-reaching summer monsoon rainfall that led to narrowing of the Saharan and Arabian deserts due to increased grassland. At the same time, in the Mediterranean and the Levant (an area that includes Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel and Palestine), winter storm track rainfall also increased.

    These changes were driven by Earth's position relative to the sun. The Northern Hemisphere at the time was as close as possible to the sun during the summer, and as far away as possible during the winter. This resulted in warm, wet summers and cold winters.

    "It's like two hands meeting," says Kutzbach. "There were stronger summer rains in the Sahara and stronger winter rains in the Mediterranean."

    Given the nature of Earth's orbital movements, collectively called Milankovitch cycles, the region should be positioned this way roughly every 21,000 years. Every 10,000 years or so, the Northern Hemisphere would then be at its furthest point from the sun during the summer, and closest during winter.

    Indeed, the model showed large increases in rainfall and vegetation at 125,000, at 105,000, and at 83,000 years ago, with corresponding decreases at 115,000, at 95,000 and at 73,000 years ago, when summer monsoons decreased in magnitude and stayed further south.

    Between roughly 70,000 and 15,000 years ago, Earth was in a glacial period and the model showed that the presence of ice sheets and reduced greenhouse gases increased winter Mediterranean storms but limited the southern retreat of the summer monsoon. The reduced greenhouse gases also caused cooling near the equator, leading to a drier climate there and reduced forest cover.

    These changing regional patterns of climate and vegetation could have created resource gradients for humans living in Africa, driving migration outward to areas with more water and plant life.

    Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
    Back to Top
    toyomotor View Drop Down
    Moderator
    Moderator
    Avatar

    Joined: 15 Feb 2014
    Location: Tasmania, AUST.
    Status: Offline
    Points: 5443
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2020 at 17:21
    I don't think concern is the right word-perhaps interest is closer to it.

    My interest is in climate control in conjunction with sustainability of food sources. 

    If we progress to the estimated number of people proposed to be living on the planet, 8-10.5 billion by 2050, how long could we expect to feed those people?
    From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph)
    Back to Top
    franciscosan View Drop Down
    WorldHistoria Master
    WorldHistoria Master


    Joined: 09 Feb 2015
    Location: Littleton CO
    Status: Offline
    Points: 10551
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2020 at 12:43
    Famine tends to be a man-made problem.  See PJ O'Rourke again.  Of course, with more than one thing going wrong at the same time, who knows?
    Back to Top
    caldrail View Drop Down
    Moderator
    Moderator
    Avatar

    Joined: 21 Jan 2014
    Location: Rushey Platt
    Status: Offline
    Points: 1368
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2020 at 20:34
    The ability to eat is fundamental to human population growth. This is why, despite humanitarian instincts like everyone else, I question the wisdom of charity to areas of the world that cannot support their home populations, because the first thing that will happen is that families will have more children, and hence the situation will only get worse at a later date. Nature is quite cruel in the way it operate and we're not separated from it, however much we like to believe we're above such things.
     
    For instance, in the 1840's Britain went through a population boom, caused by the rush to open railways and the consequent ability of the nation to supply food where-ever it was needed. I don't have the stats, but I wonder if the post 1945 boom in civil aviation has had anything to do with our current population growth?
    http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
    Back to Top
    franciscosan View Drop Down
    WorldHistoria Master
    WorldHistoria Master


    Joined: 09 Feb 2015
    Location: Littleton CO
    Status: Offline
    Points: 10551
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2020 at 10:27
    I think that when you have a stable situation, the birthrate declines to near replacement rate.  It is only when life is uncertain that most people will tend towards large families.  If you expect a child mortality rate of one or two, it makes sense to have a few extra.  A large part of the world is at replacement rate or even lower.  In order to stabilize the situation, you have to adequately feed people, then you can work on people having an urgency emergency mentality.  Does that mean there won't be a boom in the short term, no.  Of course, the demographic of people born in the late 40s, 50s, and early 60s, is called in US the baby boomers.  The return from war, the return to "normalcy" was not normal.  There are a lot of characterizations of the wasteland of suburbia.
    Back to Top
    Vanuatu View Drop Down
    Administrator
    Administrator
    Avatar

    Joined: 24 Feb 2015
    Location: New England
    Status: Offline
    Points: 2353
    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 14:25
    Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

    I don't think concern is the right word-perhaps interest is closer to it.

    My interest is in climate control in conjunction with sustainability of food sources. 

    If we progress to the estimated number of people proposed to be living on the planet, 8-10.5 billion by 2050, how long could we expect to feed those people?
    Talk of permanent colonization of the moon makes me concerned. The destruction of the moon seems like a probability if too many additional commercial or NASA satellites interfere with the lunar orbit. 
    This would be very bad for the obliquity. 
    6.) Our axial tilt would be unstable. This is an unfortunate one. Earth spins on its axis, tilted at 23.4° with respect to our orbital plane around the Sun. (This is known as our obliquity.) You might not think the Moon has much to do with that, but over tens of thousands of years, that tilt changes: from as little as 22.1° to as much as 24.5°. The Moon is a stabilizing force, as worlds without big moons -- like Mars -- see their axial tilt change by ten times as much over time. On Earth, without a Moon, its estimated that our tilt would possibly even exceed 45° at times, making us a world that spun on our sides. Poles wouldn't always be cold; the equator might not always be warm. Without our Moon to stabilize us, ice ages would preferentially hit different parts of our world every few thousand years.
    Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
    Back to Top
     Post Reply Post Reply
      Share Topic   

    Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

    Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
    Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

    This page was generated in 0.457 seconds.