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Colloquial pronouciation

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Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 Dec 2009 at 08:37
In reading a history of the aboriginal people native to my area (the Kamberri), I'm really surprised that despite huge migration (~400,000 people) in the last 80 years of people from all over the world who know nothing about local names that the original 19th century (1820s, 1830s) and possibly pre-historic* pronunciation of names, and the areas that those names refer to, has remained in the colloquial usage with a very high degree of accuracy!

The modern colloquial pronunciation accurate reflects 190 year old realities that 99% of people are completely unaware of, despite different anglicisation and standardisations of spelling that would lend to a different pronunciation.

Apologies in advance to how local some of the following places are. This map (link) may be of assistance

For example,
1) the name Canberra, now the name of the capital city of Australia.
Its always been a long running joke, often told in language classes when transliterating into another script, that no-body in Canberra pronounces it 'Can-ber-ra'. Everybody pronounces it 'Kam-bra', which is much closer to the earliest records of the name of this region, and to the Aboriginal (Kambri) pronunciation.

2) The locality of Canberra
Not only do people now use 'Canberra' (or Kambra) as synonymous with the ACT, everybody knows that it also includes Queanbeyan and surrounding areas of NSW, and pretty well once your past Yass, or at Lake George you're in Canberra. And you don't leave Canberra going south till after Bredbo sometime. This region corresponds very closely with the Territory of the Kamberri people at the advent of historic times*.

3) The pronunciation of Tuggeranong. Reading it, you'd probably pronounce it 'Tug-ger-an-ong', but in fact its pronounced Tug-ran-ong. Early spelling of the valley is Tagranong. The old spelling survived in colloquial pronunciation.

4) The city of Canberra is basically a twin city of Canberra-Queanbeyan. Queanbeyan is an older town just on the NSW side of the border. When Canberra was built as the capital, the selectors chose Queanbeyan as the site of the new capital, moved slightly away, split the ACT off NSW as a federal territory, and built Canberra. Despite the symbiotic relationship of the towns, there is a slight difference in accent. Queanbeyan people say Quean-bee-yaaan, while Canberra people say Quean-bee-y'n. The first station (pre 1825) on the Queanbeyan river was called Quinbeam - an early spelling Quean-bee-yaaan. In 1834 Lhostsky passed through the stations where modern Canberra city stands (but not Quinbeam station), and spelt the Queanbeyan river 'Quinbien' - an early spelling of Quean-bee-yaaan! Even in the 1830s, when you'd be lucky to find 100 Europeans in the whole district, there was an accent difference between the future towns of Canberra and Queanbeyan.

Hopefully this matter isn't too local and someone else finds it of interest.

*pre-historic is anything before April 1821. As all historical records have been kept by non-Aboriginal Australian.

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Zagros View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2009 at 19:43
Er erm. Should be 'pronunciation'.
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Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2009 at 22:13
Yes. Yes it should.

One more to add;
5) 'The Cotter'
In usage, the Cotter is that region west of the murumbidgee, it stops somewhere before the mountains but no-ones really sure. It doesn't go that far south or north, but again, its pretty vague. Another 19th century reality. Garret Cotter was the first white man in that region, he was exiled from a station on the east of the murmbidgee for stealing a mare, and became the only white man to have any knowledge of that area. Therefore it became 'the Cotter', all that region to the west that only Cotter knows well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2009 at 08:07
Ill take exception of Canberra also meaning 'lake' George or Yass or there abouts i know when im their when the road signs tell me i am there and i start to notice sht loads of roundabouts, you can have your sister city though.

Canberra is a part of NSW and artificially kept separate because melbournians cant accept that Sydney should of always been the Capital.Big smile


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2009 at 21:15
Is not this to-do naught but a difference in enunciation rather than pronunciation? Everyone is pronouncing Canberra--that is uttering the word--but the fright of it all hangs directly upon its enunciation!
Honi soit qui mal y pense
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2009 at 00:00
Originally posted by Leonidas Leonidas wrote:

Ill take exception of Canberra also meaning 'lake' George or Yass or there abouts i know when im their when the road signs tell me i am there and i start to notice sht loads of roundabouts, you can have your sister city though.

Once you're past Yass or Lake George. Murrumbateman is practically just country blocks for Canberra commuters.
Plus there's only one roundabout before the city on the road to sydney! (Federal Hwy/Northbourne Av)
Quote
Canberra is a part of NSW and artificially kept separate because melbournians cant accept that Sydney should of always been the Capital.Big smile

Melbourne was the capital before Canberra was built, and in any case Sydney would have a hard time getting acceptance. States didn't split from the Sydney administration only to hand power back to it.
The NSW government doesn't really care about anything outside the Wollongong - Newcastle - Katoomba triangle - which, I also think is a 19th (or 18th) century mentality that has persisted incidentally
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Is not this to-do naught but a difference in enunciation rather than pronunciation? Everyone is pronouncing Canberra--that is uttering the word--but the fright of it all hangs directly upon its enunciation!

No, it would be pronunciation...
Originally posted by wiki wiki wrote:


In phonetics, enunciation is the act of speaking. Good enunciation is the act of speaking clearly and concisely. The opposite of good enunciation is mumbling or slurring. See also "pronunciation" which is a component of enunciation. Pronunciation is to pronounce sounds of words correctly.

"Pronunciation" refers to the way a word or a language is spoken, or the manner in which someone utters a word. If someone is said to have "correct pronunciation," then it refers to both within a particular dialect.



Edited by Omar al Hashim - 30 Dec 2009 at 00:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2009 at 02:31
Not to belabour a point, but when the proverbial excrement hits the fan an orchestra should provide background by playing George Gershwin's Let's Call the Whole Thing Off!
 
 
I raise the point because if there is a locale with very old names and a tizz on how they should be pronounced it's the US, and such does heavily involve enunciation with a consequence that the results can be very odd indeed. For example Los Angeles! For years in the early part of the 20th century, many an "Anglo" attempted to replicate the Spanish "g" (=je) by enunciating "gheh" ...and would argue intensely about their phonetic honesty when uttering "Loss Anghehless". It was all hogwash of course. Enunciation is the art of articulation but it must be undertaken in terms of intelligibility by an audience and not under any pretense as to how it was "originally" pronounced.


Edited by drgonzaga - 30 Dec 2009 at 18:51
Honi soit qui mal y pense
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