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CONGRESS v TRUMP.

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toyomotor View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 Oct 2019 at 11:30
The Donald Trump Presidency has been plagued by controversy from the moment he snatched victory, courtesy of the Electoral College.

Trump has consistently lied, broken alliances with friendly nations, insulted world leaders, and, it would seem likely badly mishandled the North Korea Nukes issue. His Presidency has been one misstep after another.

Now that impeachment proceedings against him are starting, my questions are, can Trump order White House staff or other senior administration people to not obey Congressional Summonses?

Can staffers refuse to respond to summonses?

Now that a court has ordered that he hand over tax records, can he refuse?

And the last, but obvious questions are, if Trump orders staffers to ignore summonses, or they refuse to appear when summoned, what happens?

Can Congress have them arrested and brought before the Chamber?

What happens if Trump refuses to hand over Tax records, as ordered?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2019 at 07:24
Yes, they can refuse.

What the consequences of that refusal are, nobody knows.

Trump did not snatch victory, Hillary snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.  It was hers to loose, and she lost it.  There is some speculation that she will try for the nomination.

Trump and his popularity demonstrate that there are deep problems with American society.  Instead of trying to address these problems, the democrats are busy trying to address the symptoms, not the problems themselves.  GW. Bush barely won against Gore, and the democrats claimed that their guy should have won, then four years later and W. won decently over the democrat's candidate (forget his name), same thing could happen with Trump.  People don't like changing a horse midstream.  There is
some talk of Hillary running for the nomination at the convention, I guess she feels that she hasn't had
enough punishment.

I like Tulsi Gabbard as a candidate, don't agree with everything, but I believe that she genuinely loves and wants to serve this country, all this country.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2019 at 11:21
Cannot Congress enforce its' subpoena?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2019 at 18:00
Quote

They didn't help us in WWII': Trump dismisses plight of Kurds facing Turkish onslaught in Syria

ABC News 10/10/2019

Possibly sightly off topic, but probably the weakest, most disingeniuous statement that I've heard for a while made by Trump, as he orders troops out of the Turkish/Syrian/Kurdish mess.

Can he do this without consultation with Congress?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2019 at 07:50
Congress does not have law enforcement capacity, the Justice Department would normally enforce suppoenas.  But, of course the justice department is part of the Executive branch.

The president is the commander-in-chief.  If you haven't noticed, he does not need their approval (except the senate for appointments).  Legislation is another matter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2019 at 12:14
Looking at this and other issues, it seems to me that the US is in need of a serious change.

The president alone should not have the power to over rule Congress on serious matters of state.

Congress should have the power to enforce it's subpoenas and other determinations, if by no other means, using the US Marshals Service, regardless of which branch it belongs to.

People elect Senators and Congressmen/women to represent their views, needs and values, one person should be able to ride rough shod over them.

Regardless of personal politics, one must admit that Trump is at present the greatest danger to world peace and good order.

Someone suggests that he should take a deal and quit. Sound advice in my view, but would he accept those terms?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2019 at 01:13
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Looking at this and other issues, it seems to me that the US is in need of a serious change.
Hi toyomotor. That's kind of vague. Change as in a new investigation into Trump?
After 3 years of 'Impeachment Inquiry' one wonders- WHY NOT VOTE on Impeachment? Hello- HOUSE of REPS? Anybody home? They have the votes but no confidence Cry
An official vote is not mandatory it merely forces the democrats to put up or shut up. Well, they can't shut up so they just keep shrieking. They have no intention of impeaching it's just a way to constantly cause disruption and strife bc democrats worry so about the Constitution.

The POTUS, does not have to respond to democrats pissing themselves either, nor does anyone on his staff as long as Donald J Trump says so. Commander in Chief, Diplomat in Chief which means he wears the pants. Democrats are sour bc Obama didn't wear the pants not with Putin, not in Syria, serious missteps.

All the D.'s can do is take him to court. You will never see US Marshall putting Trump in handcuffs- so sorry.
If D.'s try to get the Supreme court involved John Roberts will say-"take a vote"- Twitter does not move the US Supreme Court.

Quote The president alone should not have the power to over rule Congress on serious matters of state.
Please detail the serious matters that the Commander in Chief has overruled congress on, D's are not attending to ANY serious matters currently dwelling only on impeachment, obstruction and treasonous lying by Adam Schiff & co.

Quote Congress should have the power to enforce it's subpoenas and other determinations, if by no other means, using the US Marshals Service, regardless of which branch it belongs to.
 
Hey you sound like a man who knows how to get things done. And wouldn't you have done it already if you had Evidence? Congress can enforce subpoenas through the Dept of Justice but it would require Evidence. It's exactly the same as Mueller's Probe -micro-soft no hard drive. Did you know that Trump declined to offer Mueller the role of FBI director? Before the probe Mueller went to interview for that position and Trump declined to offer him the position. 

Quote People elect Senators and Congressmen/women to represent their views, needs and values, one person should be able to ride rough shod over them.
That is not happening, once again consider the source or detail the particulars you are referring to please.

Quote Regardless of personal politics, one must admit that Trump is at present the greatest danger to world peace and good order.

Someone suggests that he should take a deal and quit. Sound advice in my view, but would he accept those terms?
Hell No!
Do you think KJI is the ONE decision maker in NoKo? He has a congress of Generals to deal with, it's not a one man show.
How is Trump making it worse in NoKo? 

He's not going to quit, too many people love what he is doing and we are keeping quiet about it. No one who supports Trump will tell pollsters bc of last election. Keep them guessing right until the end with Trump winning the Popular Vote just like GW Bush.

Mueller Probe spectacle was pathetic and sad, hard to watch that farce after 3 years of "Oh, big insurance policy Trump's going down"
What a bunch of jackasses! Congressional circle jerk! Your friend Hillary is the treasonous liar who sought help getting "dirt" on her opponent. And her day is coming the investigation won't stop now Biden's whole freaking family is getting called out for bribery and illegal profiteering. This is going to be fun.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2019 at 01:24
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote

They didn't help us in WWII': Trump dismisses plight of Kurds facing Turkish onslaught in Syria

ABC News 10/10/2019

Possibly sightly off topic, but probably the weakest, most disingeniuous statement that I've heard for a while made by Trump, as he orders troops out of the Turkish/Syrian/Kurdish mess.

Can he do this without consultation with Congress?
A US President can do this. I'm glad our guys are out. Did you expect the US troops in Syria to defend that entire country? Forever? No, Trump is right we do need to get out of the endless wars. 

I know AU Prime Minister Scott Morrison wouldn't send Aussie kids to go die in that hell.

I notice the media has just become aware of the Kurds, how very grown up of them.


Edited by Vanuatu - 12 Oct 2019 at 01:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2019 at 12:46
No, I'm not talking about D.Trump personally, I was referring to what I see as failings in the US political system.

Mind you, I don't claim to be an expert on the subject, but in comparison to other Westminster systems of government, my view is that the US has strayed from the path.

I acknowledge your comments on media bias, but many of the international decisions emanating from the WH do add to world tensions.

The US, over the past two years has sent out far too many confused signals, to the extent that long time friends are visibly shaken, and some are taking stock of their relationships.

I don't agree with the US being involved in some of the conflicts that it currently is, but, one which is demanding attention is China's moves in the South China Sea, ad in quite a few small nations bordering on western US allies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2019 at 23:24
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

No, I'm not talking about D.Trump personally, I was referring to what I see as failings in the US political system.

Mind you, I don't claim to be an expert on the subject, but in comparison to other Westminster systems of government, my view is that the US has strayed from the path.

I acknowledge your comments on media bias, but many of the international decisions emanating from the WH do add to world tensions.

The US, over the past two years has sent out far too many confused signals, to the extent that long time friends are visibly shaken, and some are taking stock of their relationships.

I don't agree with the US being involved in some of the conflicts that it currently is, but, one which is demanding attention is China's moves in the South China Sea, ad in quite a few small nations bordering on western US allies.
Plenty of failure in the nuts and bolts handling of how government is run, that is very noticeable and it used to only happen in banana republics. Starting with Obama the "rules" have just been dropped and bc the chaos is everywhere it's impossible to keep up with the daily dump of nonsense.

Traditionally there is a two party balance in the subpoena portion of congress's theater. Now democrats use rules which allow for the appearance and existence of inequity on TV broadcasts, we only see D's on the offensive until AG Bill Barr and Cory Lewandowski types, so well versed in the facts forced the D's into defense mode publicly. 

That made for some nervous D's and so the onslaught of accusations was again ratcheted up somehow and no reprieve from this nonsense. I can't imagine anyone else who could function in this madness.

Long time friends have been picking US pockets for decades(not AU) , things have been shook up so I understand the concern world wide. 

On China this president does what no one else would do, takes a swipe at their financial security and tried to force them to acknowledge the situation in Hong Kong. Trump publicly supports the protesters  in China. Our entertainment/pro-basketball industry is now the handmaid of China, NBA will not allow coaches or players to offer support to Hong Kong in any way. Today you cannot wear a t shirt that supports Hong Kong protesters at an NBA game. 

In tv and film no references to any subject that embarrasses China are allowed, such as the Dali Lama- imagine that! Trump has not made everyone happy partly bc the Never Trump people cannot stop attacking the POTUS. 


Edited by Vanuatu - 15 Oct 2019 at 23:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 13:40
The democrats are gambling that the impeachment will help them, some it might, but when the Republicans impeached Clinton, they lost in the next election, and the Senate never gave Bill Clinton a sentence.  Speaker Nancy Pelosi knows that it is a gamble.

Ever since Bill Clinton was impeached there has been a fringe that has called for an impeachment of the President (W. Bush or Obama).  Now that "fringe" is Congress.  Question is will this open up a more active war of impeachment of "whomever" occupies the office?  Why stop with just Trump?

But, look at the democratic candidates for President.  None of them are strong enough to insure a victory against Donald Trump in the voting box, which is one reason for the democrats to try to hobble Trump beforehand.  It would be nice if they had a decent moderate that they could put up.  Biden is fairly moderate, but his heart doesn't seem to be in it.  He and Sanders and what's her name (the front runners) are all over 70.  I think that Tusli Gabbard is a decent human being, but she is towards the bottom of the pack.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 19:26
Regardless of who the office holder is, IMHO, they should not be able to defy Congress and micro-manage government departments. Employees should have some certaintity of tenure unless of course they commit some unpardonable crime or offence.

While the US Constitution and various statutes give the President some extraordinary powers, these should always be used with caution and transparency.

I note that the US has voted for itself the right of rendition, no-one else has. I wonder why it's been allowed to continue? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 hours 22 minutes ago at 06:23
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Regardless of who the office holder is, IMHO, they should not be able to defy Congress and micro-manage government departments. Employees should have some certaintity of tenure unless of course they commit some unpardonable crime or offence.

While the US Constitution and various statutes give the President some extraordinary powers, these should always be used with caution and transparency.

I note that the US has voted for itself the right of rendition, no-one else has. I wonder why it's been allowed to continue? 
The admin can defy this kind of harassment. The branches are co equal. There are rules if the politics turns into theater and it has, take a vote, impeach. Why do they just stir the sh*t day after day?

 The congress are acting like bafoons! Include a number of republican charlatans-Mitt Romney. 

The employees that turn out to be tools of the democrat party machine or CNN fluffers can find new life away from the white house. IMO it's no comfort or security to know these people are trying to undercut Trump at any cost. We have enough to deal with as a nation he is president they won't accept. 

Therefore applause, applause for ignoring democrat theater.

Please explain " the US has voted for itself the right of rendition"

Also detail the examples of lack. The foreign policy? Kurds are peacefully getting out of Syria,hopefully all goes well. Did you see that coming? Think Hillary would have done it?




Edited by Vanuatu - 16 hours 20 minutes ago at 06:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 hours 7 minutes ago at 06:38
The AG is digging into Ukraine, the Russia Hoax, (and it was a bit fat hoax) and the FISA court shenanigans. Comey, Brennan, Clapper and members of congress are obviously panicked they look like fools. The first two democrat debates got between 14-15 million viewers to watch all 3 hours. This last one a couple days ago dropped off to 8 million. 

CNN is recently exposed by multiple "whistle blowers" who actually do go on the record with video and audio of Jeff Zucker telling reporters that impeachment is the only story. He's a former associate of Trump from the Apprentice tv show and he obviously hates Trump. 

That doesn't make any of this crap true its an attempt to sway public opinion nothing more. Where is the big bomb that was going to drop on Russian Collusion? Democrat Dillusion.

Hillary Clinton said very recently that Democrat candidate Tulsi Gabbard and former candidate Jill Stein are "Russian assets" who plan to get into the race and create a third party vote thus enabling a Trump win in 2020.
She's living in a bubble. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 6 minutes ago at 15:39
Quote Extraordinary rendition, also called irregular rendition or forced rendition, is the government-sponsored abduction and extrajudicial transfer of a person from one country to another with the purpose of circumventing the former country’s laws on interrogationdetention and torture. Such renditions have been carried out (for example) by the United States government, with the consent of the other countries involved.[1][2][3]-from - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition 

As I understand it:

a. The Rendition Power is provided by the Comprehensive Crime Control Act of 1984;
b. Technically, the country in which the person is found must consent to the rendition, as I said, technically;
c. No other country has such a law - AFAIK;
d. That these powers were granted to the US by it's own government shows a disregard for the laws of other countries; and
e. The technicality of the laws, their original intention has been ridden rough shot, for example, rendition to countries which condone torture, while prisoners of the US and having not been actually charged with a crime of offense.
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