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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2020 at 14:22
Right now (Mar 30), infected are doubling every 5 days in Colorado, down from every 1.8 days.  Peak will probably be in two weeks.  The first peak.

Chicom, com chi, you know what I am saying.  There are different strains.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2020 at 15:34
Yes. That's good news, let's hope it continues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2020 at 18:37

toyomotor , AU/UK media is as daffy as US, why are they kissing China's ***? 

Is everyone on the planet in their pocket? It's a "bizarre claim" says the Daily Mail.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8170491/Nationals-MP-George-Christensen-suggests-China-created-coronavirus-Wuhan-lab.html

The Chinese now admit that the Virus Research Plant mere miles from Wuhan wet market were experimenting with viruses on bats. Those lab animals are the source of Covid 19 outbreak as confirmed by Chinese scientists but still some in the world media want to ignore this report. 

Australian MP demands China pays compensation for the global spread of coronavirus - and repeats bizarre claim it may have been 'deliberate' after being 'created in a Wuhan lab' 

  • Nationals MP George Christensen aired theory COVID-19 came from Wuhan lab
  • He told 2GB broadcaster Alan Jones that China needed to pay reparations 
  • Backbencher cited South China University of Technology report about Wuhan
  • By STEPHEN JOHNSON FOR DAILY MAIL AUSTRALIA

    PUBLISHED: UPDATED: 

    'That is what that report said. It was taken off the internet. The report actually had the support of China's natural science foundation but suddenly disappeared.

    'Everybody is trying to poo poo that idea. There are a lot of questions about it. We need to get to the bottom of that.'  

  • 'I know this is contentious but the South China University of Technology printed a report that was quickly removed from the internet which actually said the killer coronavirus probably originated from a laboratory in Wuhan,' he said.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 11:46
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toyomotor , AU/UK media is as daffy as US, why are they kissing China's ***?

  

Did you mean R's?

This topic in intertwined with the posts under Conspiracy Theories.

Inscrutable Chinese, who said so?Thumbs Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2020 at 14:36
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

V
Quote

toyomotor , AU/UK media is as daffy as US, why are they kissing China's ***?

  

Did you mean R's?

This topic in intertwined with the posts under Conspiracy Theories.

Inscrutable Chinese, who said so?Thumbs Down
Since February there have been reports of Chinese medical professionals not coming home. The doctors can't speak openly and there are multiple news stories on Dr Ai Fen;
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/11/coronavirus-wuhan-doctor-ai-fen-speaks-out-against-authorities
Now that the virus has claimed more than 3,000 lives inside China, including four doctors at her hospital, one of which was the whistleblower ophthalmologist Li Wenliang, Ai has joined other critics risking their jobs, as well as detention, to speak out about conditions in Wuhan.
“If I had known what was to happen, I would not have cared about the reprimand. I would have f**king talked about it to whoever, where ever I could,” she said in the interview.
New versions of the article, in attempts to evade censors, have proliferated, from one partly written in emojis to another done in morse code, as well as pinyin, the romanisation system for Mandarin.

https://bongino.com/tucker-carlson-coronavirus-likely-originated-from-government-lab-in-wuhan“On February 6th, scientists from the South China University of Technology uploaded a paper on the origins of coronavirus. Where did it come from?” Tucker opened. “At the time the official death toll in China from the coronavirus was 564. The paper made a number of notable observations and claims that are worth knowing about and that’s why we are telling you. We want to be clear that we aren’t endorsing any of these conclusions, we haven’t independently confirmed them. We can’t.”
While prior reports traced the coronavirus to bats, Tucker noted that the particular kind of bat the virus had been attributed to aren’t available in Wuhan’s wet markets. “The virus most likely came from an animal known as the intermediate horseshoe bat,” Carlson said, but noted that “there are no known colonies [of the bat] within 900 kilometers of Wuhan”

The aforementioned paper from South China University claims that the coronavirus “likely came” from one of two government labs in Wuhan, Tucker explained. “They noticed that a scientist at the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention had been exposed to the blood and urine of horseshoe bats. They also suggested that infected tissue samples from research animals may have wound up in the Wuhan wet market.”

Or, to quote the paper directly: “The killer coronavirus probably originated from a laboratory in Wuhan. Safety levels may need to be reinforced in high-risk bio-hazardous laboratories and regulations may be taken to relocate these laboratories far away from city centers and other densely populated places.”

To clarify, Tucker is not accusing the Chinese government of using the coronavirus as a bio-weapon, but rather is theorizing that it made its way out of a lab, which was then covered up by the Chinese government.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Novosedoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2020 at 01:22
I teach history to children and I am proud that they leave my classes permeated with sh*t and hatred to meet the real world..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2020 at 09:31
Originally posted by Novosedoff Novosedoff wrote:

Both below publications came out in 2015 Smile


Hello, not a shock thanks for the links. 

NATURE | NEWS

Sharing

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Engineered bat virus stirs debate over risky research 

Lab-made coronavirus related to SARS can infect human cells.

Editors’ note, March 2020: We are aware that this story is being used as the basis for unverified theories that the novel coronavirus causing COVID-19 was engineered. There is no evidence that this is true; scientists believe that an animal is the most likely source of the coronavirus.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote electricgirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 23:36
The world is messud up due Covid-19 Cry

I cannot even visit my relatives, because the border is locked. Hope life and the world be normal asap.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Novosedoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2020 at 18:36
Below is the chart from this week's Economist, it highlights some discrepancies between countries and how they are going to be affected by the current state of lockdown 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 10:05
http://https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/cdc-lab-contamination-delayed-coronavirus-testing-67438

Assembling the first COVID-19 test kits in the same room as coronavirus material, along with other practices that didn’t follow protocol, made the tests unusable, officials say.


Why is the WHO pursuing this TEST EVERYONE! strategy? We already know that the Center for Disease Control in the US  contaminated the first batches of tests, with Covid 19!

If they test me this week, then what about next week ? Week After? Maybe tag me with an implant? Thumbs Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 13:49
Too many variables. US is finding less deaths than were predicted by computer models. The method in UK for tracking coronavirus reports of deaths are ten or more days behind actual statistics which are higher than expected. There has been some chatter about the virus being labeled as cause of death when it was a mitigating factor. No one in health care can catch their breath long enough to see what they are facing. Trump froze the US contribution to the WHO. Multiple countries criticize this move, saying "how can the WHO do what they do, without funds?" 

Why didn't WHO expect this after previous outbreaks that were like clockwork?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/coronavirus-death-toll-who-trump/2020/04/23/d5c37400-8580-11ea-ae26-989cfce1c7c7_story.htmlThough the pandemic has thrown all economic projections out the window, China — with more than three times the U.S. population — had been expected to soon overtake U.S. gross domestic product. China’s assessed contribution to the WHO is barely half that of the United States this year. Beijing announced Thursday an additional $30 million donation to the organization.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/04/why-what-we-think-we-know-about-the-uks-coronavirus-death-toll-is-wrong“When you’re on a rising trajectory, the reporting delay is likely to mean that you underestimate the steepness [of the curve] and so we may think that we’re doing better than we are. And when we come to the downturn in the epidemic, the slowing, and there’s a decrease in deaths, we’ll be too slow to recognise the change. Hence, we risk getting it wrong in both senses,” Bird adds.



As more data is made available, the models have been adapted and some are showing up to tens of thousands of fewer deaths due to COVID-19 than previous estimates. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Novosedoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 15:14
I am a little suspicious of Russian statistics..
 I always tend to look at numbers, and the numbers tell me that the death toll in Russia is much lower than in other countries:

In Russia so far only 681 deaths have been reported out of 74,588 infected, i.e. 0.9%
For comparison, in Italy the death rate is 26,384 out of 195,351, i.e. 13.5%
In the US it is 53,751 out of 938,072, i.e. 5.7%
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2020 at 19:32
Yes but how accurate are the numbers?
Our state is in top 5 for number of cases, deaths in two of our major cities were so absurdly wrong!
Hundreds of deaths per 100,000 people infected were predicted or maybe hoped for by media maniacs.
The "hundreds" of deaths predicted turned into one case in my city and three in the next. The one was an 83 year old medically complicated patient already in care. The other three were all working in the same family store.

Why do you trust the numbers?
Mitigations have changed percentages in computer models by as much as 60%, such as the social distancing factor and some civic hygiene.


Edited by Vanuatu - 27 Apr 2020 at 19:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Novosedoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 01:47
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Yes but how accurate are the numbers?

That's a very good question Smile The statistics is easy to manipulate and so to understate or overstate the reality. The methods used to diagnose the infected are still imperfect, so the real number of infected could be very different. As we all know, there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. 
All I meant to say is that the difference of above 5% is considered to be statistically significant..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 14:01
According to media reports, COVID19 figures are about ten days behind.

Regardless, figures can say whatever you want them to say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 14:16
Given that in China every once in awhile they have scandals around some manager cutting corners and making toxic dog food, I can believe that there was a lab in Wuhan that was careless in protocols, and, shall we say, let the bat out of the bag.

I think that part of the problem with the wide range for COVID19 figures, is that people are using different yard sticks (or meter sticks), and then on top of that there are some countries that are messaging the figures.  You also never have all the figures given at the same time.  Montana for example, as of today, has had 14 deaths.  You always hear about NY, and let's face it, the American media is based out of NY, the damage is spread unevenly, but when they talk about US casualties, they are myopic in their vision.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2020 at 15:03

See the video /read text that YouTube & Face Snap banned. Video from Emergency Care Doctors

https://www.turnto23.com/news/coronavirus/accelerated-urgent-care-doctors-recommend-lifting-shelter-in-place-order


Doctors Dan Erickson and Artin Massihi said their facilities have tested over 5,200 patients for the coronavirus throughout the county, making up for over half of all testing in Kern. According to their data, the death rate of the coronavirus is similar in prevalence to the flu.

"Now that we have the facts," said Dr. Erickson. "It's time to get back to work."

Erickson said he believes businesses could reopen and as testing continues, people could starting going back to work. In fact, Erickson suggests that staying at home too long could be even worse for people's health.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2020 at 15:52
When I was a boy, I would draw pictures of cars with giant rockets and flames belching out the back.  That is what a car was, go fast, I didn't think about suspension or breaks, or anything else.

That is how we look at the corona virus, instead of looking at things as trade offs, we have been single minded and some people are still single minded.  Some who are more single minded about this are (some) members of the health care and medical communities, who genuinely represent well thought out medical concerns, but some people are of the view "never let a crisis go to waste.'  (Rahm Immanuel, Hillary Clinton.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2020 at 15:43

https://abcnews.go.com/US/coronavirus-live-updates-us-surpasses-65000-covid-19/story?id=70467380US intel believes China hid severity of coronavirus epidemic while stockpiling supplies

There are more than 1.1 million diagnosed cases in America.

May 2, 2020, 11:08 PM
21 min read

12:19 p.m.: US intel believes China hid severity of epidemic while stockpiling supplies

U.S. intelligence officials believe that the Chinese government misled the rest of the world about the contagiousness of COVID-19, all the while taking dramatic action to collect the medical supplies needed for its own battle against the virus, according to an analysis obtained by ABC News.The report from the Department of Homeland Security claims that "the Chinese government intentionally concealed the severity of COVID-19 from the international community in early January while it stockpiled medical supplies by both increasing imports and decreasing exports."

"China likely cut its exports of medical supplies prior to its January WHO notification that COVID-19 is a contagion," according to the report, which was shared with law enforcement and government agencies on Friday.


'This pandemic has been so severely politicized in this country that evidence, no matter how poor, gets amplified enormously if it benefits one side or another.'
Dr. Carl Bergstrom, University of Washington















Edited by Vanuatu - 03 May 2020 at 15:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2020 at 12:52
figures don't lie, but liars figure.

The map is not the territory.

Has anyone read about how _much_? previous exposure gives antibodies, which presents some immunity to the virus?  I mean, it sounds like that would be accurate, but talking heads on the news programs say that is not necessarily true. or so I seem to remember.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2020 at 05:16
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

figures don't lie, but liars figure.

The map is not the territory.

Has anyone read about how _much_? previous exposure gives antibodies, which presents some immunity to the virus?  I mean, it sounds like that would be accurate, but talking heads on the news programs say that is not necessarily true. or so I seem to remember.

This study was done in China, they do have important recent findings. 
https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/05/07/study-finds-nearly-everyone-who-recovers-from-covid-19-makes-coronavirus-antibodies/

Specifically, the researchers determined that nearly all of the 285 patients studied produced a type of antibody called IgM, which is the first antibody that the body makes when fighting an infection. Though only about 40 percent produced IgM in the first week after onset of COVID-19, that number increased steadily to almost 95 percent two weeks later. All of these patients also produced a type of antibody called IgG. While IgG often appears a little later after acute infection, it has the potential to confer sustained immunity.

To confirm their results, the researchers turned to another group of 69 people diagnosed with COVID-19. The researchers collected blood samples from each person upon admission to the hospital and every three days thereafter until discharge. The team found that, with the exception of one woman and her daughter, the patients produced specific antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 within 20 days of their first symptoms of COVID-19.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2020 at 14:03
Something out of France suggested nicotine might have an affect, lower rates of old men getting sick than would be expected, or something like that.  Might be useful for emergency personnel to use nicotine patches?!?  Can't find mom's news magazine that mentions that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2020 at 10:21

Former WHO doctor says coronavirus cases are not increasing as expected in areas that reopen

"It's as though something has changed, and none of us can explain why.”

"As you look at all the data around the world where people have come out of lockdowns, things are actually going along quite nicely on the whole, and it's strange," Professor Karol Sikora, an oncologist and professor at the University of Buckingham Medical School, said during an appearance on Laura Ingraham's show. "It's as though something has changed, and none of us can explain why.”

When asked about increasing immunity to the virus, Sikora said, "there are almost certainly other immune mechanisms going on, including T-cells, helper cells, natural killer cells, a whole range of things that we don't understand as well as we understand antibodies." 

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/former-who-doctor-says-coronavirus-cases-are-not-increasing-expected

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 15:53
We think of adaption as the development of antibodies by those who have had the disease.  But, I wonder if the population as a whole might adapt due to low level, but prolonged exposure.

bear with me, I wouldn't take this suggestion that seriously, but maybe someone who is a scientist could some day check out the possibility.

Trees communicate, and we know that in a forest where one area gets struck by a disease, other trees in the forest, before the disease makes it to them, start adapting in preparation for the disease.  So the conclusion is that trees in one part of the forest, communicate with other parts.  So what I am wondering is could humans (and other animals) through change in scent or pheromones or whatever, 'communicate' unawares without transmission of the virus, to the communicant???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Novosedoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2020 at 15:41
Quote The GEC Russia Directorate proposes to grant an award to an organization with experience in counter Russian disinformation analysis and programming, as well as public and media engagement strategies, to produce a report on Russian and Soviet health-related disinformation campaigns with guidance from the Russia Directorate's subject matter experts to expose and increase awareness of these efforts.

Russian strangely low COVID mortality rate (1%) has finally raised some questions Smile
It is hard to believe that the whole world is manipulating its statistics in order to increase the death toll from COVID, but only Russia reports the figures as they are. So I suppose many Russians now have very little doubt on the predictability of the result of the coming vote on granting Mr.Putin the 3rd term in the office ..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2020 at 17:58
I'm leaning towards heavily manipulated numbers. Every death in US is being reported as covid19 if that person tested positive. Comorbidity is the usual cause of death with flu/corona according to the "experts." There does not seem to be an expert on covid19 as the CDC guidelines have been changing, today the "experts" say the extended lock down could cause serious problems wow! No sh*te?

Plants and trees apparently do communicate. Also have memory and learn. The idea of building immunity makes perfect sense we can certainly find examples where lack of exposure creates extreme vulnerability. Thinking of American Indians dropping like flies after being around Europeans.

If Gagliano’s interpretation of the data is correct, the scientific community may have to reckon with intelligent organisms independent of the traditional brain and nervous system model. If her interpretation of the data is correct, we may be in the early stages of waking up to a world long-populated by considerably more intelligent, sentient beings than previously acknowledged. It would be a major paradigm shift. Critics of plant intelligence emphatically insist this work is a fanciful delusion and that plant behavior is mechanistic, not intelligent. Meanwhile, Gagliano and other plant biologists have sparked a debate about our natural world that mirrors a contentious debate in the tech world: can artificial intelligence ever become, or be recognized as conscious intelligence independent of the traditional model of a biological brain and nervous system?

Today In: Science
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2020 at 18:07
This news story was a welcome sight. Finally.
Plants are sentient and so are electrons.


While inanimate matter doesn’t evolve like animate matter, inanimate matter does behave. It does things. It responds to forces. Electrons move in certain ways that differ under different experimental conditions. These types of behaviors have prompted respected physicists to suggest that electrons may have some type of extremely rudimentary mind. For example the late Freeman Dyson, the well-known American physicist, stated in his 1979 book, Disturbing the Universe, that “the processes of human consciousness differ only in degree but not in kind from the processes of choice between quantum states which we call ‘chance’ when made by electrons.” Quantum chance is better framed as quantum choice—choice, not chance, at every level of nature. David Bohm, another well-known American physicist, argued similarly: “The ability of form to be active is the most characteristic feature of mind, and we have something that is mind-like already with the electron.”
Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
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Novosedoff View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Novosedoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2020 at 17:49
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

I'm leaning towards heavily manipulated numbers. Every death in US is being reported as covid19 if that person tested positive. Comorbidity is the usual cause of death with flu/corona according to the "experts." There does not seem to be an expert on covid19 as the CDC guidelines have been changing, today the "experts" say the extended lock down could cause serious problems wow! No sh*te?

What sectors of economy do you think have been prosperous and making money even in the period of total shutdown due to quarantine? Smile Obviously, IT and Telecom. Offline companies that don't have websites or don't trade over Internet are hit the most by COVID, because they had to freeze their operations completely. But people still keep using their mobile phones, keep using Internet services and keep paying for them, because that's the only way they can interact and entertain while they can't leave their homes. The international stand of the US in ICT services is much stronger than many other nations can boast. Those nations that have been known to have rather liberal regulation and favorable conditions for IT freelancers and remote workforce are the main beneficiaries.   No wonder that the warning of coronavirus was coming from Bill Gates in 2015, because MicroSoft business is obviously one of the beneficiaries of the current state too. Now back to the numbers of deceased, no matter how much they have been tampered, the crucial thing is that some countries could adapt very quickly, while the others were lagging behind because of the inefficiencies of their regulation and economies. 


I teach history to children and I am proud that they leave my classes permeated with sh*t and hatred to meet the real world..
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WorldHistoria Master
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 01:16
There was a coroner for El Paso county that ruled a death alcohol poisoning (twice? the fatal limit? the number .31 comes to mind), whereas the state said corvid19.  The guy did have corona virus, but he was found beyond passed out (dead) in a local park.

at best it is sloppy statistics, and worst it is fraudulent.  Something like 65 % of corvid 19 deaths come from retirement homes, homes with people that have serious health conditions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 16:40
Grocery stores are low on stock and limited to one customer per family, per shopping trip. Still the food stores are ALWAYS busy. The prices have shot up on all paper products, the employees have more work with sanitary regulations. 
Hardware stores were also allowed to stay open, always busy now too.

Many talking heads predicting that many who have been able to work at home will find themselves doing so permanently.

Liquor stores are thriving, many states have closed cannibus stores. 

I need a haircut!
Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
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