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Deadly skin trade preys on African Albino's

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2009 at 16:54
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Recall that Amerind shaman are good, Western doctors are bad specially if they are "missionaries"!Confused

I was once helped by a Mayan doctor. Though he probably spoke Ch'ol better than Spanish, his medicine was every bit as western as the local acedemic hospital (except that his farmacy was dustier).

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Well, Protestants are trying to recover ground, you know.

They've never been present in Latin America before, so it's not really recovering. Still, protestantism in Latin America is a very interesting subject, but we are completely off topic already.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2009 at 18:28
Originally posted by Parnell Parnell wrote:

Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Originally posted by Parnell Parnell wrote:

I'm just waiting for some of our more enlightened members to point out that even discussing this is an example of white supremacism and neocolonial barbarity.


Not really. This practice is not widespread in the slightest and the vast majority of Africans would find it as disgusting and reprehensible as us.
I was waiting for Omar to chime in (And I was being sarcastic)


I figured that, but I was covering my bases in case it was a snipe at me since I am anti-intervention on stoning in Islam.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2009 at 18:29
Originally posted by Mixcoatl Mixcoatl wrote:

...
I was once helped by a Mayan doctor. Though he probably spoke Ch'ol better than Spanish, his medicine was every bit as western as the local acedemic hospital (except that his farmacy was dustier).
 
I recall seen a report, once, about the relationship between the public system of health of a Central American country (I believe it was El Salvador) and the local shamans.  The idea was that when the medical problem surpass the knowledge of the shaman, it its that person themselve who call for help to the standard physicians.
 
A system similar exist among the Mapuches of my country. In some hospìtals, people who require can call a shaman to give them support on site.

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Well, Protestants are trying to recover ground, you know.
 
Originally posted by Mixcoatl Mixcoatl wrote:

...
They've never been present in Latin America before, so it's not really recovering. Still, protestantism in Latin America is a very interesting subject, but we are completely off topic already.
 
Yes. An interesting topic. However, they are present since the middle of the 19th century, at least in Chile. In my country they are about 10 to 20% of the religious people already.


Edited by pinguin - 02 Dec 2009 at 18:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pabbicus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2009 at 22:18
Comparing atrocities of one society to another is all good, but you should keep one thing in mind when bringing up Christian witch hunts, etc. That is that over time, the Christians learned from their mistakes and didn't repeat them. How many christians right now are stabbing or shooting someone entirely over religion in their home countries? Most certainly not many. Compare that to how many africans are chopping up albinos to sell their body parts, and the number is assuredly much higher.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2009 at 22:35
Originally posted by Pabbicus Pabbicus wrote:

Comparing atrocities of one society to another is all good, but you should keep one thing in mind when bringing up Christian witch hunts, etc. That is that over time, the Christians learned from their mistakes and didn't repeat them. How many christians right now are stabbing or shooting someone entirely over religion in their home countries? Most certainly not many. Compare that to how many africans are chopping up albinos to sell their body parts, and the number is assuredly much higher.


Assuredly? Ever heard of the Lord's Resistance Army? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pabbicus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2009 at 22:49
Compare the number of atrocities committed by them to the number of atrocities committed by the native cultures in Africa.

Edited by Pabbicus - 02 Dec 2009 at 22:49
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2009 at 22:55
Nothing to do with what you asked and stated.  This is what you asked and stated:

Quote How many christians right now are stabbing or shooting someone entirely over religion in their home countries? Most certainly not many. Compare that to how many africans are chopping up albinos to sell their body parts, and the number is assuredly much higher.


In answer: I am pretty sure the Lord's Liberation Army has killed and is killing more people than there are albinos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pabbicus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2009 at 23:01
Well, I will admit they are an underpublicised problem as well, though my point was directed at the notion brought up in the topic that European Christians committed worse atrocities, when the difference between the two is that the Europeans abandoned these practices. Still, certain native cultures world-wide are butchering people for their religion or some insane, ancient practice involving eating your dead grandma to keep evil spirits away or other assorted nonsense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2009 at 11:01
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

...I am pretty sure the Lord's Liberation Army has killed and is killing more people than there are albinos.
 
Why always excusing the crimes that happens in Africa? Isn't excusing and protecting crimes a form of racism, too?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2009 at 11:03
Did I say forgive the Africans who kill albinos?  I rather think I did not. I excused nothing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2009 at 11:19
Just take a look at the following site:
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2009 at 11:32
It is interesting that selling bodyparts for different reasons is said to occur in more than one place in the world. There has been some scandals lately involving such kind of trade. The reasons why bodyparts or bodyproducts are stolen varies from the use in witchcraft (as supposedly is the case in a couple of African countries) to taking out organs for transplantation (rumours from China, Israel, India and other places).
The most recent discussion was about the gangs in Peru that supposedly killed several people to be able to suck out their body fat and sell to the cosmetics industry. This story has been questioned as some cover up by the police but there is no conclusive evidence yet of what really happened.


Edited by Carcharodon - 03 Dec 2009 at 11:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2009 at 12:32
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

...
The most recent discussion was about the gangs in Peru that supposedly killed several people to be able to suck out their body fat and sell to the cosmetics industry. This story has been questioned as some cover up by the police but there is no conclusive evidence yet of what really happened.


Crime has to be punished. That case is for real and the criminals are on jail. It seems there are links with Italians, and probably the mafia. Let's hope in Africa could be the same. When a crime happens people worry about punishing it rather than excusing it.

It seems that every time something wrong is discovered in Africa, there is lot of people bringing excuses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2009 at 12:42
Yea that's right excuse your South Americans by blaming Italians, typical.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2009 at 12:45
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Yea that's right excuse your South Americans by blaming Italians, typical.
 
Inform better about the case and then come back, please.
In any case, focus on the Albinos... It seem nobody can't get concentrated in the case.
 
Why are you so afraid? I bet that lack of criticism is Martin Luther King legacy.. Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2009 at 22:18
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

...
The most recent discussion was about the gangs in Peru that supposedly killed several people to be able to suck out their body fat and sell to the cosmetics industry. This story has been questioned as some cover up by the police but there is no conclusive evidence yet of what really happened.


Crime has to be punished. That case is for real and the criminals are on jail. It seems there are links with Italians, and probably the mafia. Let's hope in Africa could be the same. When a crime happens people worry about punishing it rather than excusing it.

It seems that every time something wrong is discovered in Africa, there is lot of people bringing excuses.


I am not excusing anything, I just point out that there is equally cruel and inhumane things going on in Latin America as in Africa. And in a lot of other places too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2009 at 00:38
We are not talking about equalitary cruelty, Carcha. We are talking about Albines in Africa been killed because they have pale skin. In Latin America, as far as I know, that superstitions doesn't exist.
 
Besides, who give you the right to compare Latin America with Africa? Why don't you compare Sweden with Africa, better?
 
Now, get focus in the topic, and no more excuses to protect those African criminals that kill Albines.


Edited by pinguin - 04 Dec 2009 at 00:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2009 at 15:34
Distaste or prejudice as a consequence of albinism is hardly a localized phenomenon. But what is interesting here is the "life" this story has taken on since first broached in the international media some fifteen months ago. What strikes me about the petty flame war on this thread is the projection of a Tanzanian social problem as a general African phenomenon. But the distaste for the Zeru Zeru is hardly unique
 
For the blogosphere and advocacy:
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2009 at 15:49
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Yea that's right excuse your South Americans by blaming Italians, typical.
 
Well, Zag, the international traffic in body parts is rapidly becoming a troublesome phenomenon.
 
 
 
 
 
 
And there are many more instances than those cited above so it would not be unusual for criminal gangs to take shortcuts so as to satify "market" demands.
 
 
It even has intruded into the Israeli/Palestinian conflict (you're not going to like this one Carch, something about Swedes...)
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2009 at 21:12
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Distaste or prejudice as a consequence of albinism is hardly a localized phenomenon.


Indeed.

Quote
 What strikes me about the petty flame war on this thread is the projection of a Tanzanian social problem as a general African phenomenon. 
 


Surprised me as well. If i had known this were too happen here on AE, I would have thought twice about starting the thread. What had primarily interested me in this story is how incredibly stubborn and archaic human beliefs can be, regardless of where it is found in the world.


Edited by Panther - 04 Dec 2009 at 21:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2009 at 22:30
Why surprising? There are millions of dolts who read the Horoscope in the daily paper and you can not get around the Internet without bumping into Wiccans and other whack jobs. Besides, not even the joys of godless communism have put a dent in Chinese folk medicine and its insatiable demands for animal parts!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2009 at 22:55
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Why surprising? There are millions of dolts who read the Horoscope in the daily paper and you can not get around the Internet without bumping into Wiccans and other whack jobs. Besides, not even the joys of godless communism have put a dent in Chinese folk medicine and its insatiable demands for animal parts!


I meant here on the forum itself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2009 at 00:50
But why describing the crimes that happens in Africa because of superstition and ignorance is taboo?
 
(Nobody has suggested that only in Africa there are crimes based in superstition and ignorance. Confused)


Edited by pinguin - 05 Dec 2009 at 00:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2009 at 05:18
Pinguin, the simple matter here is one of belabouring the obvious. Besides, do you want to play Remus to Carch's Romulus whenever these arcane subjects are brought up? People eat cats in certain countries and certain Mexica found chihuahas delectable are we to assign any of it continental proportions? Besides, not even the theme of forum, History, is honored when these tirades intrude upon exchange.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2009 at 10:55
Well, that's true. I will never eat guinea pigs. For me they are pets. However, in Peru they are considered a delicatessen.
 
Now, what upset me is that people don't want to see the world like it is, no matter the U.N. has the statistics.
 
Come on, nobody denies there is massive drug production in Colombia, and poors are treated like animals in Brazil. Why should people try to see Africa as a developed and educated continent when obviously it has a long way to go?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2009 at 16:36
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

We are not talking about equalitary cruelty, Carcha. We are talking about Albines in Africa been killed because they have pale skin. In Latin America, as far as I know, that superstitions doesn't exist.

Besides, who give you the right to compare Latin America with Africa? Why don't you compare Sweden with Africa, better?

 
Well the right is given by the precence of extreme cruelty in Latin america that often dwarfs the cruelty against albinos in Africa. And since Spaniards, Portuguese and Latinos has treated the Amerindians brutally also because of religious reasons one can say that there has been opression, brutality and killing because of superstition in latin America too.

And it always seems that you are more than eager to point out cruelty and other problems in Africa but many times deny the opression taking place in Latin America, especially the opression against the aboriginal peoples.


 



Edited by Carcharodon - 05 Dec 2009 at 16:40
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Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

...
And it always seems that you are more than eager to point out cruelty and other problems in Africa but many times deny the opression taking place in Latin America,
...
 
And you always seems to want to change the focus of the discussion.
 
This thread is about Albinos been killed in Africa to practise Black magic. Don't change the topic, please.
 
Do you find it is correct to use an Albino hand or ear to cure the bad luck?
 
If you don't believe this is going on in Africa, you can ask the South African police, and get informed about the black market for human parts used in the practise of some traditional forms of magic.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2009 at 17:17
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

 
Do you find it is correct to use an Albino hand or ear to cure the bad luck?


Did I ever say that? If you read what I have written you would see that I think it is horrible. But what disturbes me is your eagerness to defend opression in Latin America while you love focusing on Africas problem (as when you wrote that Africans are procreating to much).
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2009 at 18:00
Will you two stop it! Carch you behave even more pig-headed than some missionary friar lording it over his congregants as to what constitutes sin (and here I believe I am maligning the friar); and you Pinguin behave like some colon ever ready to invoke the Code Duelho at perceived insults against his social honor. And they say the "crusading" mentality is dead. Heaven help the world if both of you become muslim...you'd be beating the hustings to join Osama!
 
The truth here is obvious. It is the Tanzanian government itself that brought the matter to the fore as a social problem and is effectively addressing it with the tools of government. Incident concluded.


Edited by drgonzaga - 05 Dec 2009 at 18:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2009 at 18:20
The problem with the Albinos of Tanzania is just a small part of the problem with superstition in Africa.
 
 
 
And this:
Sorce:
 
 

'Magic medicine' murders bedevil South Africa

Rogue traditional traders are still using human body parts to increase their potions' power

By Michael Dynes
WHEN police arrested six people outside a squatter camp in Bloemfontein, they were horrified to find that a bag the six had with them contained the head, heart, hands, feet, genitals and liver of a man in his twenties.

The arrests last month, which came after a tip-off from terrified residents that the six were allegedly hawking human body parts, turned the spotlight on the darkest of South African practices.

The police are convinced that the body parts were to be sold to a sangoma — a traditional healer — to make muti, meaning medicine. Some Africans believe that muti made with human body parts is the most potent of all.

The four men and two women made a pre-trial appearance yesterday. During two previous court appearances hundreds of people demonstrated outside the court, threatening to kill the accused if they were released on bail. All six are now being held in police cells for fear they would be murdered by fellow inmates if they were kept in the local Grootvlei prison.

Abel Tubane, a protester outraged that the six are accused of committing murder to make money from selling body parts, said: “You can sell oranges or apples to earn a living.”

Thandi Gulwa, another protester, was enraged that the accused could insult African traditions in such a way. “We use herbs to be cured, not human flesh,” she said.

But although muti killing is a taboo subject, the Bloemfontein case is far from being an isolated incident. Two men and a woman recently appeared in Khayekutsha Magistrates’ Court, outside Cape Town, charged with killing a baby and frying her intestines to make muti to help them to find a job.

At about the same time, a young woman’s head was found floating in a Johannesburg reservoir, fuelling speculation that she had been killed for her body parts. Last year police arrested a man after he was caught trying to sell a head for £900 for use in traditional medicine.

The South African police force boasts the world’s only specialised muti murder investigation force. Gerard Labuschagne, who is in charge of it, believes that as many as 300 such murders are committed every year.

“Apart from a handful of high-profile cases, most muti murders go unreported,” Dr Labuschagne said. “They happen in South Africa fairly regularly, at least once a month. But for many police officers they are nothing unusual. They are just treated as another murder, so there are a lot of muti-related killings out there that never come to our attention.”

Nor are they restricted to South Africa. In 2001 the torso of a boy was found in the Thames in London. Police arrested 21 people as part of the investigation into what they believe was a ritual killing.

For centuries herbs, roots, powders, tree bark, skins and animal entrails have been the stock in trade of Africa’s traditional healers.

Dismissed as “backward and primitive” during the colonial and apartheid eras, African traditional medicine is undergoing something of a renaissance with Western scientists eager to examine traditional herbal remedies in their quest for new drugs.



Edited by pinguin - 05 Dec 2009 at 18:21
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