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dump on Trump

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2016 at 02:46
Originally posted by Constantine XI Constantine XI wrote:

General popularity.

Or simple curiosity?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2016 at 04:02
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by Constantine XI Constantine XI wrote:

General popularity.

Or simple curiosity?

Quite possibly. Either way, he's getting double the facebook publicity that Hillary's fanpage is.

The election is still 3 months away, and Trump now seems to have largely bounced back in the polls after the drop for the past several days. One thing I am eagerly awaiting is what Wikileaks leader Julian Assange will release in October concerning Hillary. And we all know he has something up his sleave which he is saving for that decisive time. Assange detests Hillary, quite understandably. And he'll do what he can to take her down.

I've come to appreciate Assange lately. He's doing the job of the Fourth Estate better than any of the major media mega corporations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2016 at 23:33
Or maybe you like the idea of an Australian determining American politics....
I prefer not to encourage herd behavior, and as far as popularity, you should learn Chinese,
1 1/2 billion Chinese can't be wrong....  Of course, Trump represents an American populism. 
which would be different than a Chinese populism.  Traditionally though, the Republicans have distrusted populist politics.  I am not sure that they don't still distrust populism.  It is the democrats that have been traditionally in league with populism.

There are no democratic checks and balances with Assange, just a bottomless sense of self-importance, and self-righteousness.  Is he his own man?  Or is he manipulatable by the likes of Trump or Putin?  He is on a personal crusade, and so I am sure if someone gave him the information, he would think of it as himself pulling the strings.  But, I am not sure he is not just a puppet for more obscure, simplistic or sometimes nefarious motives.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2016 at 03:26
As with everything about Trump he doesn't fit nicely into the populist box. Trump fits more into the celebrity candidate category. The fact that he attracts a certain kind of nationalist voter that traditionally is attracted to populist candidate is pretty meaningless.

If you think that restricting immigration is racist, that expecting are allies to pay for their own defense is proof that Trump is dangerous, that the media is not dominated by regressive ideology and that an ordinary person can not be a good president you are probably part of the intellectual elite.



Edited by wolfhnd - 13 Aug 2016 at 03:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2016 at 00:06
Trump was a WWF sensation, he was a reality show sensation, I would consider those populist outlets.
Don't forget Ms Universe shows.

I don't think restricting immigration is racist, I think it is unpractical.  We have one of the longest borders in the world, Mexico is not capable of building a wall, and if we built the wall, where do you expect to get the water in the desert for the cement?  But Trump can shoot his mouth off, he is good at that, and where not insulting, can be deliberately vague.
Did I say that getting allies to pay for their defense is dangerous?  Why do you want to put words in my mouth?  Ordinary people cannot do what it takes to be president, nor can some extraordinary ones.  I would not consider Trump to be ordinary, just ill mannered, with no filter, no discipline of a kind that is needed for the Presidency.  Of course, I _could_ be wrong, but it like we will not have the opportunity to find out, because Trump is working very hard to make sure that the public won't want to elect him.  Maybe the media has some favoritism, like it did in the nominee process where Trump's outrageousness got all the attention.  The media afterwards lamented and said that they should have covered some people (like Kasich) more because they had good ideas, something like Trump though was too tempting. 

You shouldn't believe all the fairy tales though, sometimes when you kiss a frog, the frog stays a frog.  Trump is not going to go around a corner and become "Presidential."  He doesn't have it in him.  Trump is 14 points behind in Colorado, which means I can probably vote libertarian without worrying about Hillary loosing it here.  Any other candidate would have shown how flawed Hillary was, Bernie Sanders showed how flawed Hillary was, not Donald Trump.
Trump likes who he is, which is good for him, but for anyone else hoping for a more typical presidential candidate, they are bound to be disappointed.  Trump has no personal control.  It is not just that he says things that are outrageous, he says things _because_ he knows they'll be outrageous and  will get him attention, to stroke that enormous ego.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2016 at 00:12
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Or maybe you like the idea of an Australian determining American politics....

The idea of it warms the ends of my toes on these cold winter nights Tongue
Australia! - it's the REAL threat! LOL

More seriously, what matters to me most is that when the etablishment media - which is concentrated in 4-6 companies in the US - fails to serve the public, that there is an alternative source of information who will do the job of the Fourth Estate. Ever larger numbers of people in this day and age regard the establishment news media with disdain and regard them as cynical propaganda outlets. One only needs to look at their viewer numbers - they are falling. People are smart enough to know they are being played, and are voting with their feet. This is important.

The fact that the leading source of investigative journalism now happens to be headed by an Australian is a source of patriotic pride for me. He is a brave and intelligent man who is worth more than all the mainstream investigative journalists put together. I don't care that he influences American politics - I care that he gives us the truth and lets us decide for ourselves.

Quote I prefer not to encourage herd behavior
Good, so do I. Which is why I am glad more and more people are disengaging with the establishment media - who have done more than any other force in modern times to encourage herd behaviour.

Quote  and as far as popularity, you should learn Chinese,
1 1/2 billion Chinese can't be wrong....  

This is a non-sequitur.

Quote Of course, Trump represents an American populism. 
which would be different than a Chinese populism.  Traditionally though, the Republicans have distrusted populist politics.  I am not sure that they don't still distrust populism.  It is the democrats that have been traditionally in league with populism.

The Democrats have been in league with identity politics, I wouldn't necessarily regard them as a popiulist party.

Trump is implicitly about serving the interests of poor and middle class American whites. Which as a majority of the nation, is the largest demographic and deserves the most attention. There's nothing wrong with that - they have been neglected for too long.

Quote There are no democratic checks and balances with Assange, just a bottomless sense of self-importance, and self-righteousness.  Is he his own man?  Or is he manipulatable by the likes of Trump or Putin?

Hm I dunno. Do you have any proof that anyone other than the Ecuadorian government controls the Ecuadorian embassy in London. If you do, I'd love to see that proof.
Hats off to Ecuador, btw. They've done a very kind thing.

Quote He is on a personal crusade, and so I am sure if someone gave him the information, he would think of it as himself pulling the strings.  But, I am not sure he is not just a puppet for more obscure, simplistic or sometimes nefarious motives.

Highly intelligent men tend to have big egos. And Assange has a big ego, I have no doubt of that. Again though, if you have proof that he is anything other than an independent agent, please present it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 02:53
investigative journalist?  That's rich.
more like a receiver of stolen goods.  I also don't consider him in a position to knowledgeably judge the effect of his publication of the sensitive materials.  Nor do I think he really cares, except to the extent that he makes a splash.

But some people like to have romantic notions of pirates, but at least when you look, say, Somali pirates or Philippino pirates have an excuse of abject poverty.  But if you steal from cruise ships and oil tankers and use guns and are dirty, the reality is not so sexy.  But if you deal with information and steal it on the information 'superhighway,' well that is sexy.  Or at least some people think so.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 13:54
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

investigative journalist?  That's rich.
more like a receiver of stolen goods.  I also don't consider him in a position to knowledgeably judge the effect of his publication of the sensitive materials.  Nor do I think he really cares, except to the extent that he makes a splash.

But some people like to have romantic notions of pirates, but at least when you look, say, Somali pirates or Philippino pirates have an excuse of abject poverty.  But if you steal from cruise ships and oil tankers and use guns and are dirty, the reality is not so sexy.  But if you deal with information and steal it on the information 'superhighway,' well that is sexy.  Or at least some people think so.





It seems that Trusting Hillary or Obama with sensitive information may be equally foolish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 15:32
More on the subject of Hillary and leaks, it seems that Assange has hinted in the strongest terms he can that murdered DNC staffer Seth Rich was the leaker and paid for it with his life. Wikileaks follows a policy of never confirming nor denying its sources, but Assange took the time to focus on Seth Rich's death specifically. Being shot twice in the back, with his wallet and phone untouched, Rich's death certainly is suspicious. What's especially telling is that Wikileaks is offering a $20,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of Rich's killer.

Rich certainly wouldn't be the first person to die "suddenly and mysteriously" as someone closely who may have crossed Clinton.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2016 at 02:30
I don't see how even Trump haters could vote for Clinton. On top of everything else it looks like she may have some sort of brain damage making her shake her head strangely.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2016 at 06:39
Originally posted by wolfhnd wolfhnd wrote:

As with everything about Trump he doesn't fit nicely into the populist box. Trump fits more into the celebrity candidate category. The fact that he attracts a certain kind of nationalist voter that traditionally is attracted to populist candidate is pretty meaningless.

Where he fits nicely is in DSM 5 (the handbook for psychological disorders).

Originally posted by wolfhnd wolfhnd wrote:


If you think that restricting immigration is racist, that expecting are allies to pay for their own defense is proof that Trump is dangerous,

All nations are entitled to control immigration, and do for the most part, including the US. It was Trump's labeling an entire religion, and all those that practice it, as terrorists or likely terrorists, that made it racist. 

America's allies do pay a lot towards their own defense, including direct payments to the US in some cases. More importantly, the US is in those countries because they are deemed in the strategic interest of the nation. Little has changed in this regard for centuries of imperial rivalries. No one nation can exist behind a wall if a large enough power block exists outside it with ill intent. Trump understands nothing of this because he gets his information, as he states, from "the shows", popular entertainment, one is left concluding, rather than in depth reading.

Originally posted by wolfhnd wolfhnd wrote:

 that the media is not dominated by regressive ideology and that an ordinary person can not be a good president you are probably part of the intellectual elite.


An ordinary person cannot be a good president. Many Americans cannot even locate the US on a world map, which would not bode well for understanding complex geopolitical problems, ones for which there would be no time to go back to square one and start explaining the basics of history and geography at grade school level. Many struggle to have enough grasp of economics to balance their check book and pay their bills at the end of the month. It's a long way from there to grasping difficult economic issues, ones that take experts in the field years to analyze and understand. And it takes considerable self-awareness and maturity to withstand the constant buffeting of conflict and confrontation, widely differing opinions and interests, problems with no foreseeable solution, not to mention a 12hr/7 day a week workload.

Trump not only falls short of what could reasonably be demanded of a presidential candidate, he is clearly less than even your average person. Not all average people by a long shot have emotional and/or psychological problems to the point of dysfunction. Certainly most average people don't tend to lie with no sense of shame or common decency. Not all average people have racist and misogynist tendencies. And most average people can form whole sentences and coherent paragraphs when they speak, and do so with better than a grade 5 vocabulary.

It doesn't take and intellectual to see you are not getting average, you are getting the bottom of the barrel. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2016 at 11:51
It's a shame that in sharing our ideas we have focused nearly entirely upon our own subjective assumptions about the personalities of the two candidates, and spent so little time actually looking at the finer details of the two candidates' policy proposals. I'd like to offer up a policy topic for discussion.

A number of years ago I was an auditor. I have left that field to pursue a career with more creative outlet, but my 7 years working my way up through several layers of the audit hierarchy has left me with a great appreciation for the importance of taxation and business cash flow more generally. One of the reasons I support Trump is for his plans to transform US taxation. I'll summarise what he is going to do in comparison to his competitors, and why his policy promises are superior.

See here for a comparison of Trump and Sanders personal income tax schedules:

Hillary's income tax rates in comparison can be found here:


On the subject of corporate tax rates, Trump will slash the Federal Tax rate to 15%. He will also put in place protectionist tarriffs. At present the combined federal taxes, state taxes, and additional special taxes to pay for things like healthcare mean that the USA has the second highest total tax rate in the world at an average rate of combined dues amounting to 55% of corporate income according to KPMG's global tax comparison. Only UAE has a higher rate of total combined tax dues, at 60%.
Hillary plans to raise corporate taxes very slightly, Sanders had planned to increase them dramatically. So that's the simplified comparison of competing tax policies put forward by the major candidates.

To start with in terms of comparing policy value, let's understand why Trump's proposal on corporate tax is better. It's very clear that US business entities are overtaxed. The result is that fewer businesses can exist in such a climate as their domestic tax rate puts them at a disadvantage compared with other countries. That means fewer jobs, less innovation, and competing at a disadvantage with foreign competitors (loss of market share).
Besides these obvious costs, we need to think of what such high taxes do besides confiscating private money. In particular, we need to consider that every form of government regulation, tax, financial penalty or financial credit acts as an incentive to change human behaviour. What good businessman would locate his headquarters, operations and manufacturing in a country with a combined corporate tax liability of 55%, when he could just relocate to Ireland and pay a combined tax liability on his income of a mere 12.5%? High taxes have incentivised businesses to flee the country - and I would bet money that the increase in revenue generated by higher tax rates has been more than offset by the contraction of the pool of taxable businesses. 
By lowering the corporate tax rate to 15%, and combining this with tarriffs, Trump will give corporatations the strongest incentives to return their operations to the United States. Trump has copped some flack for proposing protectionist tarriffs, and modern economics seems to have been thoroughly seduced by the academic theories which claim free trade is virtually always good for countries. While I appreciate the economic models of these theorists, I am not one to faithfully believe their theories as absolute gospel. The USA is the largest single consumer market in the world, and possesses a concentration of technology and expertise which is second to none - companies will return to the US and choose to invest in it regardless of tarriffs.
I believe this carrot and stick approach proposed by Trump is pretty clever and will work, and I give him credit for not allowing his trade policy to be determined by what current economics academics consider to be in vogue.
Oh and in addition, he is going to vastly simplify the tax code. This is hugely important too. The US tax code is one of the most voluminous masses of written regulation ever. It adds to the costs of doing business, and its vastness acts to disincentivise smaller business. Missing some obscure taxation clause is liable to result in harsh penalties, while plenty of other obscure tax clauses exist which allow businesses to claim unfair benefits that cost the entire system. Think of the large US company that kept two cows on the premesis of the corporate HQ so they could claim massive subsidies and tax breaks as they then qualified as a farm.....
A simplified business tax code will be good for everyone.

Let's now discuss personal income tax. Like corporate tax rates, personal income tax rates act as an incentive to hide funds offshore. So if you have them too high, you reduce your tax pool and possibly end up with less money than at a lower rate. Under Bernie, this stream of personal income offshore would have accelerated greatly. Just going on instinct, I look at the rates Trump has proposed and I doubt many people would be left with the incentive to hide their personal income relative to the risks/penalties of being found out by the IRS.
Trump is abolishing taxes on the poorest, and substantially reducing taxes on the beleaguered middle class (who need it and which are absolutely indispensible for the existence of a modern democratic state). It is clear to me that these tax policies are intended to coincide with a rise in employment that will result from the return of offshored companies and the expulsion of illegal aliens. Each of these policies are intended to converge to breathe new life into the dying American middle class.

In conclusion, Trump has a taxation and trade policy which is intended to return businesses to the USA which have been offshored, allow for the much easier creation of and opportunities for new businesses, and to regrow the American middle class through higher employment and lower tax liabilities. It seems clear to me that he intends to recoup and perhaps surpass the losses in government income due to lower tax rates with a complementary increase in the pool of tax paying companies and an increase in the level of employment and personal taxable income of the ordinary American citizen.
There's no possible way I could come up with a mathematical calculation which would soundly estimate how his combination of policies will affect the bottom line of Federal Government revenue. Even if it took a substantial loss, my personal opinion is that the renewal of middle class enfranchisement will be an immaterial benefit which will justify a reasonably small loss in revenue. I say again, the middle class is indispensible for a working modern democracy.
Whether his policies produce a net increase or fall in revenue, either way he will have to make some very large cuts to current US expenditure.

Fin.


Edited by Constantine XI - 16 Aug 2016 at 14:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2016 at 17:55
If we are looking at the bottom of the barrel we would surely find Hillary occupying it. It is hard to imagine a worse candidate for president.

Trump is not perfect but at least he has demonstrated a modicum of competence. I can't find anything in Hillary's life that says competent other than the ability to turn politics into a personal fortune.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2016 at 15:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2016 at 15:36
More evidence of Obama's and by extension Clinton's incompetent.

"A Rare Bipartisan Consensus in US Politics: The Iran Deal was a Bad Idea"



https://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/a-rare-bipartisan-consensus-in-us-politics-the-iran-deal-was-a-bad-idea/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2016 at 03:12
Trump is erratic.  He is given the opportunity to "correct" what he has said, and he cannot but help but saying something to make it worse, he wants to make it worse.

Once upon a time a scorpion came up to a turtle at a river, the scorpion said, 'carry me across.'  The turtle said, 'you're a scorpion, when you get on my back you will sting me.'  The scorpion said, 'oh that is a terrible thing to say, you don't know me.' The turtle says, 'okay, climb on.'  In the middle of river, the turtle feels a prick, 'oh how can you do that?  We are now both doomed.'  Scorpion said, 'I just got to be me.'  That is Trump, people think he will change and overnight become presidential, but he just has to be himself, and those with him will get stung and go down with him.

You are right that Hillary is corrupt, she believes that she is special, and that she deserves a cut.  But she is predictable, we have had corrupt politicians before, and chances are we will have them again.  It seems to me that it is better to have a known unknown in the White House, than an unknown unknown in the White House, Trump.  We know what Hillary is like, she is probably not going to get better, but at the same time probably not much worse.  We expect her to probably line her pockets a little, steal the silverware. 

But to 'reassure' you Wolf and Con, I _probably_ won't vote for Hillary, she has a 14 point lead in Colorado and so Hillary doesn't need my vote, I will probably vote for the Libertarian candidate (and then probably the rest of the ticket Republican).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2016 at 17:24
The presidency is an executive office and as such has little control over policy matters outside of some aspects of foreign affairs. That said it is the supreme court appointments that should force all conservatives saying they will not vote for Trump to reconsider. We do not need an activist court at a time when respect for law and order is so low.

Liberals have a long record of sacrificing substance for appearance and in the case of the supreme court virtue signaling could be very dangerous. While the conservatives have to be watched on issues like abortion they are more likely to be contained by constitutional law.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2016 at 02:09
Originally posted by wolfhnd wolfhnd wrote:

The presidency is an executive office and as such has little control over policy matters outside of some aspects of foreign affairs. That said it is the supreme court appointments that should force all conservatives saying they will not vote for Trump to reconsider. We do not need an activist court at a time when respect for law and order is so low.

Liberals have a long record of sacrificing substance for appearance and in the case of the supreme court virtue signaling could be very dangerous. While the conservatives have to be watched on issues like abortion they are more likely to be contained by constitutional law.

Thanks Wolf, can you tell me, for my own education, what Executive Powers the POTUS has, and under what circumstances he can over-rule Congress?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2016 at 04:42
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powers_of_the_President_of_the_United_States

The status of Commander and Chief is perhaps the most troubling presidential powers for people who hate Trump. If he were as mentally unbalanced as they believe then no one could justify voting for him.

Congress in theory can override any executive orders and the courts are required to nullify any that overreach the intent of congress so almost every other power is limited to management not policy. If he does not provoke a war the president is easily contained.

The current election is kind of unique because of the supreme court situation. Congress can reject candidates but the president typically will be able to only present candidates who will be of his philosophical bent.

One of the best aspects of liberal democracies is that they are usually in such political chaos that no party can do irreparable damage. What politics in the US amounts to in this election is which party has more totalitarian tendencies. I believe the prize goes by a small margin to the left.

I would say Hillary is more like Stalin than Trump is like Hitler. Despite all the rhetoric to the contrary Trump doesn't want the job for the power although it would flatter his ego. Hillary wants to be the princess who became queen in an almost pathological way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2016 at 01:17
Trump is a solipsist.  He believes that he and he alone (sol ipse) exists and that the rest of the world is here only for his ego.  Another way to put it, is that he has sociopathic tendencies.  He comes up with different figures for how much he is worth, and in a way, he is right.  He looks at the property he has, and the property his name is on, and says 'that's how much it is worth to me.'  There was a roast for Trump, (where comedians joke about the person being 'roasted,' and he said, you can joke about my family, but don't talk about my worth."  They allowed him to set the ground rules and they didn't joke about his worth."  Normally, for roast, the roasted party is not allowed to make up any "ground rules" like that.  I mean, think about it, he is a billionaire and you can't talk about his money in public???  Only he is allowed to do that.  What do you think his taxes would show, if they were released?
Trump is alive financially because he is worth to the bankers more alive than dead.  He is good at promising that if they take him out, he will take the bankers down with him.  In the process however, he doesn't have any qualms about anyone else going down with the ship.  When he talks about 'the art of the deal,' he means he wants to make a good deal for himself, and to hell with the other guy.  It would be nice if he at least faked empathy, but one must admit it is not really in his nature.

Hillary Clinton may want to become president very much so, and she is definitely working hard to do so, taking care to do everything right, raising money, getting the ground staff in, working it.  This is definitely a goal she has had her whole life.  I think that she not only wants to become president, she wants to go down in history as a good president and so I hope she will be concilatory, at least to a certain extent.  That doesn't mean she won't be coming at things more from the left than from the right.  But I don't see the Stalin "comparison" at all.  I also don't see a Hitler comparison with Trump either.  Hitler had a masterplan and Trump exists on 'instinct,' 'shooting from the hip, and tenacity (or obnoxiousness).  Hillary is capable of making plans, Trump on the other hand seems to not want to get tied down by tomorrow.  Some people like to argue ad Hitlerum, if one doesn't agree with them, then one will end up with a Hitler state.  It is the boy who called wolf, or chicken little 'the sky is falling.'  Of course, it could be the first step down a slippery slope, but I think that Trump represents a different potential disaster than struck Germany and Europe in WWII.  Hillary represents the lesser potential evil in my book, but one should remember that a lesser evil is still evil, or in other words, not ideal.  It is Trump that makes Hillary a consideration.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2016 at 09:23
Hillary badly ill and on the verge of a mental and physical collapse? You decide:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqbDBRWb63s
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2016 at 14:30
In the past I have voted for third party candidates when I felt that the republicans and democrats had not offered a distinctive choice. This time we have a real choice between the demonstrative incompetence of Clinton and a celebrity candidate. While some people are worried about how celebrity status is a qualification for president we did elect Bonzo and the world did not come to and end.

Trying to define Trump as a populist candidate is disingenuous considering the current president is in office largely because he is black.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2016 at 23:29
Constantine, I like both vice presidential candidates better that the presidential candidates.  (I say _both_, as if there are only two, but I think that it is important to note that there are 3rd party (and fourth and fifth, etc.) candidates as well.).  So if Hillary is going to fall ill, that might be a reason to vote _for_ her, so that Caine is promoted.

Wolfe, Barack Obama was elected because he was popular, not because he was populist.  I think that if we elected people based on the content of their character, McCain would have been voted in.  On the other hand, McCain wouldn't play "dirty" in order to win.  He said that Obama's religion (reverend Wright) and social involvement (Acorn), were off-limits.  McCain himself had been the victim of racism eight years earlier, when in South Carolina, a rumor 'was' started that McCain had had a love child with a black prostitute.  This "love child" was actually his adopted Bangladeshi daughter.  His wife had toured an orphanage and was shown two teenage mentally challenged girls, and realizing that they would never otherwise be adopted, she brought them home.  The second girl was adopted by a family friend's family.  When she left Bangladesh, Mrs McCain called up John McCain and said "I am coming home with your daughter."  
It was vicious to use a challenged girl as a pawn in the 2000 primaries, but apparently it achieved the desired results, McCain's moment (in 2000) coming out of New Hampshire was broken, and George W Bush gained the upper hand, and eventually the Republican nomination.  Eight years later, it was hip to vote for a man who would be the "first black president."  One thing about Obama though, is that he didn't use white guilt as a weapon, as Jesse Jackson has done throughout his career of his Rainbow Coalition.  Whites appreciated that and ultimately rewarded him for that, and for good or bad (probably more good than bad), we are at a different place in racial harmony than we were 7-8 years ago.  Part of that is Obama, but also a big party of that is because of John McCain, who wasn't willing to "do what it takes" to win the election at all costs, unlike George W. and unlike George H.W. (who used the Willie Horton ads against Dukakis).
One thing I respect about Hillary, is that in 2004 she was told in the Democratic party, it was her moment, but she had promised that if elected, she would serve a full term in the Senate.  She fulfilled her promise.  In 2008 Barack Obama tossed away his promise to serve at least one full term in the Senate, because he was told by the Democratic machine (particularly Ted Kennedy) that it was his time.  Obama also promised to do matching funds for the election, but found that his own fund raising was too lucrative to give up for the general election.  So like McCain, and unlike Obama, Hillary wouldn't do just anything in order to get elected.  She wants the presidency, but I don't think that she believes she is indispensable. 


Edited by franciscosan - 08 Sep 2016 at 23:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2016 at 23:44
If Obama isn't the most populist bread and circus president in history I will eat my hat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2016 at 00:15
American men don't wear hats these days, because of John F. Kennedy.  You must not be a "true" American.<grin>  Unless it is a baseball cap.

That is funny because I think of Obama as an elitist, who thinks he knows what's best for the hoi polloi, even if they are (in his opinion) too stupid to realize it.  It's more like the nanny state with pseudo tough 'love,' attitude.  Pseudo love, not pseudo tough.  He has a very intolerant demeanor, doesn't play nice with others, his healthcare plan, forced through, is a sign of that.  Most circus types give the people what they want, hey, like Trump!  Not what they think the crowd 'needs.'

You might make sure you read the rest of my above post, if you want to....  I was revising when you posted this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2016 at 03:11
Trump's immigration speech is really landmark - thoughts anyone?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2016 at 13:21
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

American men don't wear hats these days, because of John F. Kennedy.  You must not be a "true" American.<grin>  Unless it is a baseball cap.

That is funny because I think of Obama as an elitist, who thinks he knows what's best for the hoi polloi, even if they are (in his opinion) too stupid to realize it.  It's more like the nanny state with pseudo tough 'love,' attitude.  Pseudo love, not pseudo tough.  He has a very intolerant demeanor, doesn't play nice with others, his healthcare plan, forced through, is a sign of that.  Most circus types give the people what they want, hey, like Trump!  Not what they think the crowd 'needs.'

You might make sure you read the rest of my above post, if you want to....  I was revising when you posted this.


Is Trump a populist
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2016 at 13:44
Obama is a Marxist by training and a community organiser by profession. That is about as close to a populist candidate as we see these days. Surely he he would have spoken out more about the culture of violence if the virtuous young black men shot by police were not victims of oppressive elites. The only reason he didn't go full retarded cultural Marxist is he didn't want to be impeached. All the Marxist think they are intellectually elite but there are so many of these people that have never produced anything of value in their lives they can be thought of as the new virtuous common man. About the only thing that separates them them from the working class common man of past populism is their jingoistic pseudo intellectual vocabulary.

Edited by wolfhnd - 09 Sep 2016 at 13:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2016 at 04:27
Here is how Obama and the other intellectual elites have handled the economy.

Obama’s Economy In 9 Charts


http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/30/obamas-economy-in-9-charts/

This is what bread and circus looks like.

Edited by wolfhnd - 10 Sep 2016 at 04:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2016 at 03:37
The recession wasn't Obama's fault (nor was it George W's, it dated further back than that, at least the housing crisis did), but the economy has been fairly anemic since then.  But when the president badgers and belittles businessmen from the bullypulpit, one should expect their skittishness.  Obama is not a Marxist, but he is on the left of the political spectrum, and pretty far on the left if anyone had paid attention to his state senate (absentee) and senate career.  Which the public didn't in all the adulation.

got a 404 error looking up the daily caller, I still think Trump is more the circus type, big clown catering to the lowest common denominator.  and with Trump and his admiration of Putin, and with Putin's admiration of Stalin, it is not Hillary that reminds me of Stalin.  But that is a superficial thing.

Stalin was a thug and Marxist was a convenient label for him. but he would have been a thug in any time or place.  Marxism seems to go well with thuggery. Obama is highhanded, but not a thug. 

Sorry Constantine, didn't see Trump's immigration speech.  He says one thing, and then another and people wait for the "real" Trump to stand up, but it is all Trump, he doesn't have the self-control to stick to one thing, except his general nastiness.


Edited by franciscosan - 11 Sep 2016 at 03:44
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