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dump on Trump

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2016 at 06:36
He is insulting, but incredibly shallow, he celebrates his shallowness, it is a technique he has it is what he is.  He insults people for effect and he promises stuff for effect, but what he'll do, is probably something entirely different.  In other words, he said a lot of things during the general election, but they don't mean anything, or at least a lot of them don't meaning anything past the next sound bite.  You're right, he said what he said to get elected, but it didn't mean anything other than the effect, now he will turn on the charm, and some people (both against him and for him), will realize that it is all a game to him and they will excuse him to some degree knowing that he is crass opportunist, a crass opportunist who can be very charming, but a crass opportunist..  He has already started that, by complimenting Hillary on her public service after the election.  All of a sudden he is talking about there being parts of Obama care that he wants to preserve.  And after insulting him in during the nomination process, he is considering Mitt Romney for Secretary of State, placating him.  He is not stupid, the question is not whether what he does get diluded down but how much.  Either he do well arguing for his vision with other "princes" or he will try to force it and fail, that is our system of checks and balances, legislative, judicial, executive, Federal, state, local.  Of course, he can try to buy pass those checks and balances, I doubt that kissing up to Putin he has much "nostalgia" about the Constitution.  That would do an entirely different kind of damage.

You know, Constantine, some people did not like Hillary because she cut too many corners, so when you argue that is what Trump had to do to get elected, it sounds like the Machiavellian "the ends justify the means" which of course was what Hillary argued about herself.  You're right it worked getting him elected, but now the problem is to govern.  He got 60 million votes, the US population is over 300 million.  Hillary got 2 million more than he did, is he still leading chants of 'lock her up"? or is he turned on the charm now?  Figure it out, he is not there to do what you want him to do, if he does his job probably no one will be completely happy, but all will be able to live with it.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2016 at 10:15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2016 at 09:39
Sounds like a good excuse for puppies and coloring books, but it sounds like an excuse.  I think it would be more important to foster some dialogue about the election, real dialogue between a varied number of viewpoints.  There are diverse views on campuses, but not generally amongst people who wear their opinions on their shoulders.  There is a small and vocal minority (numbers wise), that has the large megaphone on campus, then there are the followers and sympathizers, including the faculty to _some_ degree, then there is everyone else.  The followers and everyone else are probably in the numerical majority.

There is a video of a Berkeley protest in the late 60s where people are singing "We shall overcome." and the song just metamorphosizes into the Beetles "Yellow Submarine."  I mean, if you know the songs you can see how singing one can bleed into and become the other, and that is what happened in the documentary, in real life, and that is what happened with the sixties.  Idealist protests for causes of Justice (good _intentioned_) coming out of traditions of folk music and spirituals, transformed into a silly, fantasy song, "Yellow Submarine".  So now we have concerns about Donald Trump in the Presidency (whether or not those concerns are misplaced or exaggerated), and so "we" respond by petting puppies and coloring books.  I like puppies, but here they are like soma, the fictional drug in Huxley's Brave New World, leading people to ignore problems instead of dealing with them head on, "it's okay, have a puppy..."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2016 at 21:51
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

He is insulting, but incredibly shallow, he celebrates his shallowness, it is a technique he has it is what he is.  He insults people for effect and he promises stuff for effect, but what he'll do, is probably something entirely different.  In other words, he said a lot of things during the general election, but they don't mean anything, or at least a lot of them don't meaning anything past the next sound bite.  You're right, he said what he said to get elected, but it didn't mean anything other than the effect, now he will turn on the charm, and some people (both against him and for him), will realize that it is all a game to him and they will excuse him to some degree knowing that he is crass opportunist, a crass opportunist who can be very charming, but a crass opportunist..  He has already started that, by complimenting Hillary on her public service after the election.  All of a sudden he is talking about there being parts of Obama care that he wants to preserve.  And after insulting him in during the nomination process, he is considering Mitt Romney for Secretary of State, placating him.  He is not stupid, the question is not whether what he does get diluded down but how much.  Either he do well arguing for his vision with other "princes" or he will try to force it and fail, that is our system of checks and balances, legislative, judicial, executive, Federal, state, local.  Of course, he can try to buy pass those checks and balances, I doubt that kissing up to Putin he has much "nostalgia" about the Constitution.  That would do an entirely different kind of damage.

You know, Constantine, some people did not like Hillary because she cut too many corners, so when you argue that is what Trump had to do to get elected, it sounds like the Machiavellian "the ends justify the means" which of course was what Hillary argued about herself.  You're right it worked getting him elected, but now the problem is to govern.  He got 60 million votes, the US population is over 300 million.  Hillary got 2 million more than he did, is he still leading chants of 'lock her up"? or is he turned on the charm now?  Figure it out, he is not there to do what you want him to do, if he does his job probably no one will be completely happy, but all will be able to live with it.
 

Yeah yeah, he likes Putin. So what. So do I.

Warmongering, corruption, disregarding the law and promising more war isn't cutting corners. You are euphemising.

I believed he would win, and contrary to most opinions I was right. I believe he will do a good job even if he doesn't deliver on 100% of promises.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2016 at 10:03
Thank you, I always thought I was well-spoken<grin>.

So you were right, do you want a gold star?  I am more concerned that whatever job he does, you will call it good, and being at a distance off in Australia, how could you tell different?

I think it is interesting that Trump is appointing Nicki Haley as UN ambassador.  Nicki Haley supported Rubio and then Cruz during the nomination, and was critical of Trump.  She is the governor of South Carolina, and is (India) Indian in ethnic background.
I will say when I think Trump does good things, how about you?  Are you able to admit that your hero has weaknesses?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2016 at 10:24
franciscoan:

I take it that your last post is directed at Constantine XI.

As a fellow Australian, I suggest that Constantine is either stirring the pot, or that he doesn't appreciate just what difference a Trump government could mean to Australia. Already Trump is saying that on "Day One" he will abolish the Trans Pacific Trade Agreement which took seven years to put together. That will impact on Australia, and others in the Pacific region.

He says he wants closer ties with Putin. That will impact severelt across Europe, especially in the bordering countries. It could even mean that China takes on a more warlike stance, due to the threat that a Russo American partnership could easily dominate the world.

Con should be careful of what he wishes for.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2016 at 11:31
Toyomotor
People often call for drastic action, thinking that things couldn't be worse.  Well, things are not bad if you compare them to what was normal (economically) 100 years ago.  The United States was kind of spoiled after WWII since everybody else was destroyed or colonial (which might qualify as another type of destroyed?).  Things can get worse, much worse but people like drama and sweeping statements, and that is what Trump gave them.  But how much he adheres to that, is an open question.  Now I am sure he will make liberals grumpy for awhile.  But that doesn't mean he will give away the store to make those who voted for him overjoyed.  If he does not learn to play nice with others, he will have 4 years, and two of those years will be lame duck, especially because if he does not play nice congress will go democrat in two years, and the senate may as well.  Most governorships are also Republican right now, but of course, that can change.  If he learns to play nice with others, then he may have 4, 6 or even 8 years of effective governing.  So, I don't know what exactly Constantine wishes for, but I doubt that Santa Claus or Donald Trump will give him everything his heart desires.

On the globe, Australia looks very big, but demographically, Australia is very small in a very big neighborhood. India, China, Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam.  Australia, I understand, has a lot of resources, which is why Japan aimed for it in WWII.  At least that is my impression, is that a fair impression Toyomotor?  I am not saying what Australia should do, I am just saying that seems to be the international reality that most politicians regarding Australia, operate under.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2016 at 11:51
Toyomotor, I am aware that he plans to scrap TPP. And I think this is excellent, I am very much opposed to TPP.

A Trump presidency will not in any way compromise the ANZUS Treaty. On the contrary, Trump's anti-war stance likely means that our soldiers will be able to come home after 15 years of perpetual war. I say that's a win for us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2016 at 14:07
Gosh, considering how Trump wants to mess around with Nato, I don't see why he wouldn't want to change ANZUS also.  I mean, I think that the US and Australia share a strong Anglo-Saxon heritage, but then again I don't think Trump's promises to give more money to the military and at the same time cut back on them and pursue a more isolationist policy really makes sense.  I mean, that is the whole point behind the idea of the military-industrial complex, if you have it, you are going to be prone to use it.  

But you are probably right, Constantine, and Trump will probably honor commitments (most commitments?) to Nato, and probably to ANZUS as well.  Probably, but of course hesitation and uncertainty on his part _may_ encourage incidents.  But again, you are probably right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2016 at 14:29
Quote Gosh, considering how Trump wants to mess around with Nato, I don't see why he wouldn't want to change ANZUS also. 

Well that's speculation. I'll wait for proof of this.

Quote I mean, I think that the US and Australia share a strong Anglo-Saxon heritage, but then again I don't think Trump's promises to give more money to the military and at the same time cut back on them and pursue a more isolationist policy really makes sense.  I mean, that is the whole point behind the idea of the military-industrial complex, if you have it, you are going to be prone to use it.  

Australia has substantially stepped up to its regional responsibility, and spent billions into the bargain. Even when New Zealand flaked out on its responsibilities, we simply took over funding an expansion of our own military to take over their aerial and naval patrols. Plus we've faithfully participated in all post 9/11 adventures.

It is now US policy that military focus has pivoted from Europe to the Asia-Pacific. Given that Australia has already long re-oriented itself towards this goal, it only makes sense that the much larger and less invested European powers pay their fair share.  Australia has already stepped up to the plate.

Quote But you are probably right, Constantine, and Trump will probably honor commitments (most commitments?) to Nato, and probably to ANZUS as well.  Probably, but of course hesitation and uncertainty on his part _may_ encourage incidents.  But again, you are probably right.

Better than continuous wars in the Mid East for no reason and potential war with Russia - which was what Hillary was offering us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2016 at 18:52
franciscoan & constantine:

1. Franciscoan-Yes Australia is a large country with a small population of about 25million. Part of the reason that the population is so small is that the inland and Outback part of Australia are basically uninhabited. Neverthe less, Australia has honoured commitments to the US,joining it in warlike operations overseas. I don't think any of us know what Trump will do on a whole range of things.

2.Constantine- As I wrote above, no-one knpws that Trumpt will do. The breakdown of the TPP Trade Agreement doesn't auger well for Australia, regardless of your personal point of view.

Trumps quoted isolationist views auger well for no-one.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2016 at 06:32
I've just read that Clinton polled in excess of 2million more votes than Trump, who said during the campaign that the election was rigged-and now I tend to believe him.

How can a person poll more votes and lose an election. Easy, the Electoral College vote is really a gerrymander.

Clinton is being urged by supporters to challenge the election outcome.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2016 at 11:57
Clinton has already conceded defeat. She could attempt to challenge the outcome, but the last time a candidate conceded defeat and then challenged the outcome was back in 2000 in the person of Al Gore. One suspects a similar attempt by Clinton will meet with similar results.

Hopefully she spares us any further imitation of Gore and does not carry on to make a wildly inaccurate and hysterical video on climate science.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2016 at 14:10
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Edited by es_bih - 09 Feb 2017 at 10:15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2016 at 14:22
If the left does not examine it's own failings instead of inventing Hyperbole about Trump's failings they could be out of power for a decade. It is clear that there is considerable cognitive dissonance in those that consider themselves the intellectual elite.

Edited by wolfhnd - 25 Nov 2016 at 20:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2016 at 16:44
I agree with es_bih, the left in this election has tried to rig the outcome on a massive scale. And still lost. They are in no position to be crying foul.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2016 at 08:51
es_bih
The matters you referred to in your last post are disgraceful.

In Australia you need to be a citizen before you can vote.

If you're not enrolled, you can't vote.

You must have lived in a state for more than, I think it's six months, before you can vote. No bussing in voters.

As far as I can see, the only thing you've achieved is to highlight more cases of a corrupt system, out of control.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2016 at 09:38
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Edited by es_bih - 09 Feb 2017 at 10:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2016 at 09:55
That commie state Utah has driver's licenses for illegals, so they can get insurance and that way if
they cause an accident, the victim is not out of luck.  Terrible!!  ;)  Utah is also pretty sympathetic for immigrants, since Mormons are exposed to different cultures on their missions.  (It is hilarious when you see a well dressed eighteen y.o. wearing a name tag saying "Elder" Smith.).  Mormons got some screwy ideas, but generally they're pretty good people.

Each party has a strategy of how to play the elections and that includes who can vote (what ID they must have), and when they can vote, both claim that their way is good.  There is fraud, but there isn't systematic fraud.  I wonder if anyone compares election results to census results.  Probably somebody does.  _IF_ you have 30% turnout normally and in a district you have 60% turnout of eligible voters, then is something fishy going on there?  Or maybe the democratic voting drive was very successful.  Democrats tend to do the voting drives, because it benefits them more, there are fewer Republicans, but they tend to be more organized.

If the election was rigged then we should do it over again, don't you think?  <grin>  Lordy, you Trumpophiles love to whine about how it was rigged.  Well if it was rigged, you shouldn't accept the results.  And if you accept the results, you shouldn't whine.  But, oh you say "it is so fun!  We want to gloat and whine at the same time!"  Grow up!  One or the other, but not both.

I always pictured Australia as having a volunteer military.  Now it may be true that a young man may not really understand what he is getting into when he volunteers (if he is volunteer), but that is a little different than a conscripted soldier.  Am I correct about Australia being a volunteer force?  I know the US military is that way.  There are of course problems with volunteer forces, but that is a different issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2016 at 14:08
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Edited by es_bih - 09 Feb 2017 at 10:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2016 at 14:44
People have flipped out especially those that are out of touch with America.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2016 at 14:45
Australia is indeed composed of only volunteer soldiers. This has been true throughout the nation's history with two singular exceptions - WWII after the entry of Japan into the war, and the Vietnam War; here conscription was implemented.

We also have a militia force, the Reserves, who may or may not be called up in times of especially taxing military commitments overseas. For example, some of the overseas adventures insisted upon by our US ally over the past 15 years has necessitated the calling up of Reserve troops for duty.

But to answer the question simply, the Australian military and its Reserves are composed of fully volunteer soldiers who are all full Australian citizens.


Edited by Constantine XI - 26 Nov 2016 at 14:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2016 at 16:31
"I always pictured Australia as having a volunteer military.  Now it may be true that a young man may not really understand what he is getting into when he volunteers (if he is volunteer), but that is a little different than a conscripted soldier.  Am I correct about Australia being a volunteer force?  I know the US military is that way.  There are of course problems with volunteer forces, but that is a different issue."

Australia last conscripted soldiers in the 1960's when Australia, perhaps unwisely, followed our US friends in Viet Nam.

The entire Australian Armed Forces, including the Reserves are volunteers. Afghanistan is the first time that Australia has sent Reserves into combat since WW2, and those Reserves are volunteers.

Of course they're different to conscripts and there is a difference both in the public opinion and in the attitude of the soldiers.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2016 at 06:59
I think in America there is an attitude of why not use them? because they are volunteer.  There is also a split between the disciplined soldiers and slackard civilians, with the soldiers just kind of amazed at the self-administered bull that the civilians make for themselves.  Coming out of the military they don't identify with the lack of patriotism.

I don't know about what you are saying regarding California licensing and voter registration.  Pardon me if I am skeptical and don't want to look it up, don't know where to look it up.  It is true that democrats are laxer on identification, and fight voter id requirements.  But of course, the republicans fight voter id requirements from the other side, and I suspect they would be up in arms if the case was what you say.  My family is from Southern California, and most still live out there, I've never heard of such a thing, but granted I haven't been looking for it either.
The interesting thing about Utah, is that people on the right argue against licenses for illegals, but then again you don't get much more right than the mormon church, and they don't have a personal problem with illegals, and they give illegals licenses so they don't have a problem with uninsured illegals doing hit and run car crashes.  I suspect CA is that you can register for voting at the driver's license place (to make it easier), but I doubt it is automatic.  But of course, i don't live in California, and I don't know the rules of Colorado that well either.
The ancient world was _verY_ conservative, traditional, customary.  In one Greek polis, if you wanted to propose a law change, you had to do it standing on a stool, with your head in a noose.  If they didn't like what you said, they would kick the stool out from under you.  Ahhh, the good ol' days. ;)  Back then, the rules were all written down in stone, and they were limited enough so that, if you could read, you could actually learn them all.

It is good that Constantine worries about Australian soldiers, they may be volunteers, but I think that there is a little problem with having _informed_ consent.  I don't think that being told about war is enough to fully inform a young 18 year old about what it is going to be like.  A decision to go into the military should not be a passive one, but active, with the weighing of decisions through cost/benefit analysis at every turn.  If you do not decide for yourself, the military will decide for you. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2016 at 10:01
Originally posted by Constantine XI Constantine XI wrote:

Toyomotor, I am aware that he plans to scrap TPP. And I think this is excellent, I am very much opposed to TPP.

A Trump presidency will not in any way compromise the ANZUS Treaty. On the contrary, Trump's anti-war stance likely means that our soldiers will be able to come home after 15 years of perpetual war. I say that's a win for us.

Didn't New Zealand renege o the ANZUS Treaty by withdrawing from it many years ago?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2016 at 10:06
franciscoan wrote-"It is good that Constantine worries about Australian soldiers, they may be volunteers, but I think that there is a little problem with having _informed_ consent.  I don't think that being told about war is enough to fully inform a young 18 year old about what it is going to be like.  A decision to go into the military should not be a passive one, but active, with the weighing of decisions through cost/benefit analysis at every turn.  If you do not decide for yourself, the military will decide for you. "

By coincidence, an article in local newspaper The Mercury states that since 1999 the level of recruiting for our Reserve Forces, particularly the Army Reserve has increased and is well on its way to reaching the target. 

Informed  consent, I think so.

But we're getting way off post now, and I think that we've  collectively written more about Trump than he deserves at this stage.




Edited by toyomotor - 27 Nov 2016 at 10:08
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Edited by es_bih - 09 Feb 2017 at 10:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2016 at 13:02
Australia should be thankful Clinton was not elected. The establishment of which Clinton is a member cannot deal with the declining hegemony of the U.S. Every thing they believe in is being challenged by the economic and military rise of China. They have destabilized the Middle East and thus prevented the end of the structure put in place with the Bretton Woods Agreement. The close ties between the Bushs and Clintons is evidence that ordinary conservative and socialist are little more than useful idiots in the minds of the establishment. Issues like gun control, racism, abortion, sexism distract intellectuals and ordinary people from what goes on behind the curtains. When Trump was just one of the useful idiots he was tolerated but as soon as he threatened the narrative we suddenly learn he is a racist, misogynist.

Morons like Noam Chomsky will tell you that the U.S. is responsible for every thing wrong with the world and the simple minded accept that narrative. He ignores the atrocities committed by authoritarian socialists because he cannot accept the reality that he nor anyone else can control or even comprehend complex chaotic systems. It is the same mortal sin that people like Clinton and her supporters make.

Trump is simple the only candidate not completely subsumed by a psychotic paradigm that always befalls the captain and kings in which they believe they are in control of the uncontrollable. Trump will eventually suffer the same malady as he tries to deal with complexity let us just hope he can defuse some of the impending disasters Clinton put in place out of unfounded arrogance.
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franciscosan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2016 at 10:38
Trump is simple
you should have just stopped with that.
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es_bih View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2016 at 11:57
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Edited by es_bih - 09 Feb 2017 at 10:14
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