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dump on Trump

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2017 at 04:09
I don't care if he golfs, wait a minute, Trump does golf!  And i don't care.  I think it is a little disingenuous to say there is no climate change, and then file an environment impact statement in Scotland (or Ireland?) claiming he needs to put up a sea wall because of climate change.  But I am sure he has minions that he can blame that on.

So the democrats are corrupt?  Is this a surprise to you?  I didn't want Sanders, and I didn't consider him a serious candidate.  It was only because Hillary was so flawed that he got as far as he did.  The democrats had 2 candidates, and the republicans had 15, but decided on the most flawed individual in the pack.  But the fact that democrats have "super delegates" shows how their system is rigged.  A carpetbagger such as Donald Trump wouldn't get very far in their system, but a carpetbagger such as Hillary did quite well, to a point.

Jimmy Carter said that New York benefits the most of any state (or city?) from government largess.  Whatever happened, I am sure that has continued and would have continued under a Clinton administration as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2017 at 05:10
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

The original judge that overturned the ban was a W. Bush appointee (or so I've heard), I don't think he was a knee jerk liberal.

The conservative commentator Krauthammer said that the travel ban was legal and stupid.  The commentator David Brooks agreed.

Trump's own appointee to Supreme Court has commented on Trump's criticism of the courts.

Trump has decided not to press it for now.  If he had bothered to do it right and go through Congress, well, shoulda coulda woulda.

Legal team failed to prove urgengy. Now that J.Sessions has been confirmed Attny Gen. they will take it to a higher court. It's constitutional for the diplomat in chief to set travel ban. Krauthammer never liked Trump. Neither did David Brooks, no surprise. Can't find any news release saying he decided not to press it for now.


Edited by Vanuatu - 11 Feb 2017 at 05:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2017 at 05:18
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I don't care if he golfs, wait a minute, Trump does golf!  And i don't care.  I think it is a little disingenuous to say there is no climate change, and then file an environment impact statement in Scotland (or Ireland?) claiming he needs to put up a sea wall because of climate change.  But I am sure he has minions that he can blame that on.

So the democrats are corrupt?  Is this a surprise to you?  I didn't want Sanders, and I didn't consider him a serious candidate.  It was only because Hillary was so flawed that he got as far as he did.  The democrats had 2 candidates, and the republicans had 15, but decided on the most flawed individual in the pack.  But the fact that democrats have "super delegates" shows how their system is rigged.  A carpetbagger such as Donald Trump wouldn't get very far in their system, but a carpetbagger such as Hillary did quite well, to a point.

Jimmy Carter said that New York benefits the most of any state (or city?) from government largess.  Whatever happened, I am sure that has continued and would have continued under a Clinton administration as well.

Trump won't be golfing he has a....job! That's what I want him to do. At what point did Hillary stop doing so well?

I know about the corruption and conspiracy on both sides no surprises here. You are outraged that Trump won and you must try to maintain detachment.
He's going to be opening up green technology for competitive markets (Stanford U has had a model for carbon collector for 10 years). And I do not expect him to destroy pristine wilderness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2017 at 10:09
Trump said mean things, that is all we need to know. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2017 at 11:29
Originally posted by wolfhnd wolfhnd wrote:

Trump said mean things, that is all we need to know. 

He's still saying mean things, what concerns me is what not so much what he says, but what he does.

That, we'll need to know, don't you think?




Edited by toyomotor - 16 Feb 2017 at 02:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2017 at 12:40
No one remembers Obama's joke about disabled people.

"No, no. I have been practicing...I bowled a 129. It's like -- it was like Special Olympics, or something." --making an off-hand joke during an appearance on "The Tonight Show", March 19, 2009 (Obama later called the head of the Special Olympics to apologize)


Or the feminists delight "gotta have them ****y an' ribs 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2017 at 00:32
Maybe nobody remembers it because it wasn't really funny.  There was an article in, say, 2009 issue of Economist about how comedians where hands off towards Barack Obama because they generally liked him.  A prominent exception to that rule was the Onion, the joke newspaper.  So such a faux pas would of course be overlooked by the lords of comedy.  Now, it is the opposite, if Donald Trump does anything, the inclination of comics is to put the worst spin on it that they can, which of course, tends to be true for any Republican candidate.  I don't see them as picking on Donald Trump any more or less than they picked on W Bush, H.W Bush, or Reagan.  Trump likes to hit back, hit first, and hit in-between as well.  He thrives on chaos, unfortunately, his staff is more sensitive than that.

Politicians can be particularly crude and even in private, "politically incorrect."  When JFK was asked 'what had he done for women?'  He said, "not enough."  I don't think he was talking about feminism. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2017 at 10:39
Quote "No, no. I have been practicing...I bowled a 129. It's like -- it was like Special Olympics, or something." --making an off-hand joke during an appearance on "The Tonight Show", March 19, 2009 (Obama later called the head of the Special Olympics to apologize

Another example of political foot in mouth disease.

But they're not alone-any public personage is capable of being roasted over things they say, and, these days with Twitter, Face Book etc, not only in public.

Did Obama ever tell such outrageous lies in public and get caught out?

Did I mention that Psychologists and Psychiatrists in the US are being quoted as having serious concerns about the Donalds mental health?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2017 at 10:52
And now-

Reports that only friendly media are permitted to attend announcements/media conferences.

An hour long tirade against "the dishonest press".

His choice of new National Security chief has declined the offer.

Reports that some of his own party are tipping that he won't be in the White House for Christmas.

Intelligence agencies are excluding him and his senior staff from intelligence briefing-because they don't trust them.

Four of Trumps senior advisors have been escorted from their offices by FBI members, after having failed security checks.

More of Trump claiming that the media have told lies about him-when in fact the reports have been true and provable.

Russia and China both getting edgy over Trump announcements on international policy.

Further insults to Australian Prime Minister, Trump saying that the Turnbull/Trump 'phone call was unimportant.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2017 at 15:05
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Maybe nobody remembers it because it wasn't really funny.  There was an article in, say, 2009 issue of Economist about how comedians where hands off towards Barack Obama because they generally liked him.  A prominent exception to that rule was the Onion, the joke newspaper.  So such a faux pas would of course be overlooked by the lords of comedy.  Now, it is the opposite, if Donald Trump does anything, the inclination of comics is to put the worst spin on it that they can, which of course, tends to be true for any Republican candidate.  I don't see them as picking on Donald Trump any more or less than they picked on W Bush, H.W Bush, or Reagan.  Trump likes to hit back, hit first, and hit in-between as well.  He thrives on chaos, unfortunately, his staff is more sensitive than that.

Politicians can be particularly crude and even in private, "politically incorrect."  When JFK was asked 'what had he done for women?'  He said, "not enough."  I don't think he was talking about feminism. 

The world is ever more complicated and brutal. This seems like a higher level of venom than even George Bush got. Remember Bush had Colin Powell backing him on Iraq and that made war palatable for many on the left. Of course Powell later admitted that they did not have an accurate assessment of weapons, chemical or otherwise.
Late night talk is proving to be a barometer of opinion. When Jimmy Fallon tries to be an equal opportunity comedian his ratings suffer. And Steven Colbert should personally thank Trump for dragging his pathetic ratings out of the gutter.
Trump's staff is not Trump, why would they be? Do you really want to go there? Shall we revisit Huma & co?Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2017 at 15:21
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote "No, no. I have been practicing...I bowled a 129. It's like -- it was like Special Olympics, or something." --making an off-hand joke during an appearance on "The Tonight Show", March 19, 2009 (Obama later called the head of the Special Olympics to apologize

Another example of political foot in mouth disease.

But they're not alone-any public personage is capable of being roasted over things they say, and, these days with Twitter, Face Book etc, not only in public.

Did Obama ever tell such outrageous lies in public and get caught out?

Did I mention that Psychologists and Psychiatrists in the US are being quoted as having serious concerns about the Donalds mental health?



Obama has made many ridiculous statements. They are glossed over or not covered at all. I heard that business about the President's mental health. Here is how it was framed in US. As people are living longer, should presidents be subject to testing for dementia? So just one more reason to pile on, now he's senile. Also outright question his mental health, bc Obama was so 'together' but lots of people questioned Obama, you just never heard it.
Its amazing how polarizing this all is with Trump. I hear him at his press conferences and I am loving it and laughing (so is american press btw) I think people like whacking Trump bc he takes it well and yes hits back hard. His demeanor is calm to me, hysterical reporters are not Trump and therefore allowed emotional, vicious fake news. And look at the leaders on the world stage. Is Trump really so inappropriate in the way he has handled all these attacks? I don't think Obama was appropriate but his behavior was framed as such by most of the media. He had a great  kowtow though, how low can you go?Ouch


Above is right wing press admittedly but the quotes are not fake you can copy paste and see the original context. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2017 at 15:36
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

And now-

Reports that only friendly media are permitted to attend announcements/media conferences.

An hour long tirade against "the dishonest press".

His choice of new National Security chief has declined the offer.

Reports that some of his own party are tipping that he won't be in the White House for Christmas.

Intelligence agencies are excluding him and his senior staff from intelligence briefing-because they don't trust them.

Four of Trumps senior advisors have been escorted from their offices by FBI members, after having failed security checks.

More of Trump claiming that the media have told lies about him-when in fact the reports have been true and provable.

Russia and China both getting edgy over Trump announcements on international policy.

Further insults to Australian Prime Minister, Trump saying that the Turnbull/Trump 'phone call was unimportant.



I guess there is no telling an individual what to believe. I'm sure there is some nonsense on both sides. Maybe Trump meant that the controversy over his call to Turnbull was 'unimportant.' Lately things are getting twisted but it very well may be that Trump was disrespecting Turnbull, he is capable no doubt.

I am OK with China being uncomfortable, it bothers me not. They have to create 25 million jobs a year that number increases every year. Even if they choose to never deal with US as political partners they need our commerce that's a reality, sure they do want to flip that but it won't happen overnight.
Washington Times is conservative opinion but not disrespected as much as Fox News. 
As for the news reports that you refer to additionally, I either doubt the reports or don't care or fail to see the relevance and outrage after two terms of Obama. What a weird ride this has become.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2015/sep/16/chinese-compiling-facebook-us-government-employees/

ANALYSIS/OPINION

The incompetence of the U.S. government in allowing the records of millions of federal workers to be hacked and stolen is simply staggering.

Fox News reports that according to private security firm CrowdStrike’s founder, Dmitri Alperovitch, the Chinese are compiling a massive ‘Facebook’ like database on American federal government employees for use in espionage and blackmail.

The data was stolen from high profile attacks against the U.S. Office of Personnel Management, as well as intrusions into the Anthem and CareFirst BlueCross BlueShield health insurance networks.

“That can now be used to embarrass you publicly and force you to work for the Chinese government,” Alperovitch says. “It’s, in effect, a private version of Facebook with much more detail about your life than even Facebook has that the Chinese now have access to.”

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2017 at 09:53
From the Sydney Morning Herald (extract)"Washington: At the end of a week in which he misplaced his national security adviser, and found a replacement who bolted before his feet were nailed to the floor, Donald Trump declared the chaos he calls an administration "is running like a fine-tuned machine".

Now, regardless of which way you spread butter on your bread, this guy is whacko.

Two very senior members of his party appeared on TV News to say that "The Trump administration is in serious difficulties". And they're right.

If he was an Australian Prime Minister, he would have been dragged away in a straight jacket by now.


Edited by toyomotor - 21 Feb 2017 at 03:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2017 at 17:36
There is no oversight for the Fourth Estate. No one is fact checking the media, here in the US or elsewhere.
They will not report Trump's accomplishments they will only drag him down. By now you see that I am not on board with mainstream media and have not been since probably 9/11/2001.

Media and democrats (embedded Obama appointees in national security) along with some republicans are blocking Trump's nominees. I'm not shocked, lol. Try to understand the people who support Trump are mostly anti media, do you see why things are so polarized?

Why exactly does Trump need a straight jacket? What did he say that was so crazy ?

Trump is enjoying the Dow Jones Industrial Average’s best performance in the initial 30 days of a presidential term since Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1945

This is consumer confidence , investor confidence and industry confidence. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2017 at 22:46
Vanuatu wrote
Quote Why exactly does Trump need a straight jacket? What did he say that was so crazy ?

Where do I start?

His exageration of the inauguration numbers?

His lies about the votes he received?

His blatant lies about terrorist strikes?

His unfounded attacks on the intelligence agencies, the judiciary, and the media?

Granted, the Intelligence Agencies, IMHO, are out of control, inasmuch as no-one really knows what they're up to.

His erratic rants about anything and everything-on a daily basis.

Is it any wonder his pick for new National Security chief rejected the offer.

It may be that the alternative candidates didn't appeal to the voters, but, again, IMHO, they certainly screwed up in voting for Trump.




Edited by toyomotor - 21 Feb 2017 at 03:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 17:33
It's been a case of lesser evil than Hillary represented and I agree ( w Trump) that the media is useful as a propaganda machine. Obama knew that all of media voted for him they are the opposition party. Trump is who has always ,given an agenda, will see things get done. So if you agreed with his agenda you took the Trumpish stuff lightly.

People know Trump is countering a lot of media bias and they don't fight fair. His exaggerations level off all their attacks and he is on offense not just defending himself. His supporters like to see him fight back. Most republicans won't. 

He is at 53% approval there a lot us seeing things very differently and it's probably a lot bigger than Trump wouldn't you say?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 19:27
I thought it was a 35% approval rate, but maybe that my touch of dyslexia<grin>.
Did you hear about the dyslexic atheist who didn't believe in dog?
How about the dyslexic devil worshipper who sold his soul to santa?

Propaganda does not consist of "fake media," propaganda is generally true facts, given a particular spin.  Trump is just giving it his own spin when he claims that it is "fake media."

The British did propaganda in WWI against the Germans, and made up stuff.  The effort backfired.

Modern news in not "fake news," it is factually accurate, although it may have a particular spin.

If I am reporting that there is a sale at Kmart, there is a difference between whether I am reporting it the day before, or the day after, if I am reporting that the latest game console is on sale, or underwear is on sale (or was on sale).  Whether parking has been a problem in the past, or rain or so forth.  What I say could all be factually accurate, but why and how I say it puts a spin on those facts.

There was a story in Saturday's Wall Street Journal, editorial page, about a Trump tweet supporting imprisoned Venezuelan opposition leader.  They were complimenting Trump for taking notice and bringing it to attention.  Peggy Noonan was pretty good too.  She said that White House officials should stop trying to be in the public eye, and get down to business, like they did in the Reagan administration.  She is not talking about President Trump, she is talking about the supporting cast of characters. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 00:20
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

It's been a case of lesser evil than Hillary represented and I agree ( w Trump) that the media is useful as a propaganda machine. Obama knew that all of media voted for him they are the opposition party. Trump is who has always ,given an agenda, will see things get done. So if you agreed with his agenda you took the Trumpish stuff lightly.

People know Trump is countering a lot of media bias and they don't fight fair. His exaggerations level off all their attacks and he is on offense not just defending himself. His supporters like to see him fight back. Most republicans won't. 

He is at 53% approval there a lot us seeing things very differently and it's probably a lot bigger than Trump wouldn't you say?

From way over here, it seemed to me that Obama was/is a good man trying to do all of the right things. 

The American system of government, where the President doesn't control Congress through his party is a bit alien to us in Australia, where our Prime Minister is the leader of the party which wins an election.

I like our system better, but, having said that, if it aint broke (the US System) you don't fix it. What I'm getting at is that if the President wants something put into place, he may have to convince a hostile Congress, which, if it wants, could block the best idea the President has.

Obama is portrayed as a statesman and with diplomacy. From what we see and hear of the Donald, he has none of these skills, and government by bullying and lying is government by dictatorship, especially when you have non-compulsory voting and a small percentage of eligible voter turnout.

Many people don't vote, as is their right, but then protest every move made by those elected. I get that.

Unfortunately for the American people, Trumps lies, exagerations and attacks on various other arms of government, plus it seems his now selection of only friendly media to attend press conferences, does nothing but muddy the waters.



Edited by toyomotor - 20 Feb 2017 at 04:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 02:44
The media was in love with Barack Obama.  They overlooked his flaws and gave him a great love fest, except to the extent that there obvious things that they couldn't ignore.  His underestimation of DASHL or whatever they were called.  Back peddling on the line in the sand concerning Syrian chemical weapons.  I don't think Obama was that bad for the day to day stuff.  But forcing Obama care on people, saying you could keep your insurance, and your doctor (I was able to keep neither).  The fact is, is that Barack Obama was the most radical, and probably the least active member of the Senate.  He couldn't operate with a loyal opposition, he was arrogant, his way or his way.
Some people expected him to do something about race, and you might say he did, by existing in the presidency.  But really, he got elected because, unlike Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton, he didn't try to make people feel guilty about past 'racial sins.'  But, when race came up in his presidency, he didn't know what to do, except send in the FBI, have them investigate.  And President Obama's head of the FBI, was Holbrook (who is black).  When Barack Obama was elected, a group of Black Panthers were intimidating white voters at a poll precinct in Philadelphia.  Obama and Holbrook decided not to investigate this intimidation.  This is what critics of the Obama reign consider the politicization of the FBI under Obama, and Holbrook is the one who judged it not worthwhile investigating clear voter intimidation in Philadelphia.  He is also the one who was sent to investigate when there was a incident between the police and a black/minority youth.  Usually the police department or the judicial system has already investigated.  But community outcry has made the incident an issue.  The community assumption is that the police are guilty, and cannot possibly be proven innocent.  The police in general are following rules of engagement, and they are often dealing with youths who have been raised on outrage and are antagonistic towards the police.  There are reasons why law enforcement often supported Trump in the election.  He supported them against rioters and against what they see as a politicized FBI.  Of course, this is not the predominant media's narrative during the Obama administration, but it is there for some.
And why isn't it a well known story? well the media was too busy lionizing Obama.  Obama is an amazing individual, but his stature has largely been promoted and manufactured by the democratic party, and the press has largely been complicit in this manufacture.

There was an article in the Economist after Obama's election, about how comedians were reluctant to poke fun at Obama, because they liked him and were very much pro-Obama.  And exception to this was the Onion who felt that it was very much their job to mock all public figures.  It would be interesting to see what they have to say now.
My latest Cato newsletter has said nothing about President Trump or his cabinet, I imagine that they don't know what yet to say.

Trump has his own love fest going on, only it is self-administered.


Edited by franciscosan - 20 Feb 2017 at 02:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 21:38
More "alternative facts".

Sweden was not the target of a terrorist attack. Perhaps he's getting confused with the Anders Breivik murders. But this was in Norway, anyway.

He claims to have gained knowledge of this attack from watching TV.

With the most compresensive intelligence system in the world, he could have obtained the truth with a phone call.

Liar, liar pants on fire!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 00:50
http://guides.library.jhu.edu/c.php?g=202581&p=1334961

Well francisosan, propaganda may be representative of some facts but Trump dumping the MLK bust was not factual (disinformation). So politicians and political parties do use both lies and propaganda. There is also disinformation and misinformation like the fake reports of protesters being attacked by Trump fans. The muslim woman who lied about Trump fans pulling of her hi-jab..lol there are more. 

Modern news is the democratic national party mostly. Not sure what Noonan is on about getting down to business. Eric Holder was on TV more than Obama was. So there is propaganda in news along with misinformation and disinformation. Do you think WW2 propaganda about the Japanese was just spin?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 00:59
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

It's been a case of lesser evil than Hillary represented and I agree ( w Trump) that the media is useful as a propaganda machine. Obama knew that all of media voted for him they are the opposition party. Trump is who has always ,given an agenda, will see things get done. So if you agreed with his agenda you took the Trumpish stuff lightly.

People know Trump is countering a lot of media bias and they don't fight fair. His exaggerations level off all their attacks and he is on offense not just defending himself. His supporters like to see him fight back. Most republicans won't. 

He is at 53% approval there a lot us seeing things very differently and it's probably a lot bigger than Trump wouldn't you say?

From way over here, it seemed to me that Obama was/is a good man trying to do all of the right things. 

The American system of government, where the President doesn't control Congress through his party is a bit alien to us in Australia, where our Prime Minister is the leader of the party which wins an election.

I like our system better, but, having said that, if it aint broke (the US System) you don't fix it. What I'm getting at is that if the President wants something put into place, he may have to convince a hostile Congress, which, if it wants, could block the best idea the President has.

Obama is portrayed as a statesman and with diplomacy. From what we see and hear of the Donald, he has none of these skills, and government by bullying and lying is government by dictatorship, especially when you have non-compulsory voting and a small percentage of eligible voter turnout.

Many people don't vote, as is their right, but then protest every move made by those elected. I get that.

Unfortunately for the American people, Trumps lies, exagerations and attacks on various other arms of government, plus it seems his now selection of only friendly media to attend press conferences, does nothing but muddy the waters.


I certainly realize that Obama was framed as a great statesman but to what effect? what did his administration accomplish that proves he was a great diplomat? Don't ask Israel or Venezuela or Syria or Lybia..
The remark about friendly outlets, if you saw it out of context right, it might not give you comfort. Rest assured no one will let up on Trump. Maybe this is the best way for the balance of power to play out. Trump won't have a breakdown he loves it. As for the exaggerations and lies well again I tell you this is far far better place than we have known for some time. Obama's lies were organic sacred nectar for democrats and the majority of the media.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 01:02
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

More "alternative facts".

Sweden was not the target of a terrorist attack. Perhaps he's getting confused with the Anders Breivik murders. But this was in Norway, anyway.

He claims to have gained knowledge of this attack from watching TV.

With the most compresensive intelligence system in the world, he could have obtained the truth with a phone call.

Liar, liar pants on fire!!

Ok yes but Trump referred to programming that was on the previous night about the migrants and the crime in Europe.

*Obama said he visited all 57 US states ( only 50 Barry). He is  a lot younger than Trump and he is the messiah! :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 04:07
One thing is for sure, Donald is certainly helping to sell newspapers.

From what I've seen on TV over the years, I don't like the man and would need some convincing that I'm wrong. 

I tend to agree with those who question his mental health. Why does he tell such outrageous lies, when surely he must know that they'll be exposed as such almost immediately. His credibility is ZIP!

I don't agree with you about China. Sure, it has a major problem with civil rights, but, year by year it edges closer to technical and tactical expertise to put the USA on the bench. 

I think that, rather than make rude comments about China, Trump should be engaging in talks with China to withdraw its relationship with North Korea, which, IMHO, is in a position to ignite a major conflict, almost at will.  Granted, such a conflict may not last very long, but do we need instability in the Far East, as well as the Middle East?

BTW, again, media reports that Putin thinks Trump is a clown, notwithstanding Donalds leaning towards Russia as a friend.




Edited by toyomotor - 21 Feb 2017 at 04:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 01:28
Trump is very shallow, and probably very stable, he doesn't let things like bankruptcies, or negative press affect his high estimate of himself.  I am not a psychologist, and so I am a little leary of making amateur assessments.  As far as functioning is concerned, he is a high functioning individual.  I think he is going in wrong directions, but who knows? maybe there is method in his "madness."  He is definitely an egotist.  As far as lies are concerned, some people don't take him as literally and as seriously as you do, toyomotor.  Perhaps they feel that he is in a battle with political correctness, and the media, and so they excuse it if in his 'fight' he cuts corners.  He's "scrappy" and they like him for that, don't get me wrong, I don't like him, but one way or another, we'll figure out how things go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 01:52
franciscosan: I tend to agree with you, except for his stability. From what we read and see in the media in Australia, he's the very epitome of instability.

Todays news claims that a number of his very senior administration have been travelling around Europe in the past few days to contradict or explain what Trump has said in his tweets or directly to the media. One such case is his commitment to NATO.

I agree, he seems to me to be the supreme egotist, if something goes awry, he denies it ever happened or claims that the media are attacking him with alternative facts.

I've yet to see any method in his madness.

Quote " As far as lies are concerned, some people don't take him as literally and as seriously as you do, toyomotor."

Well, it's a bit like being pregnant, either you is or you ain't. He's either lying or he's not. The international consensus seems to be that he is, almost every day.

Stable, I don't think so.


Edited by toyomotor - 22 Feb 2017 at 01:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 04:10
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

One thing is for sure, Donald is certainly helping to sell newspapers.

From what I've seen on TV over the years, I don't like the man and would need some convincing that I'm wrong. 

I tend to agree with those who question his mental health. Why does he tell such outrageous lies, when surely he must know that they'll be exposed as such almost immediately. His credibility is ZIP!

I don't agree with you about China. Sure, it has a major problem with civil rights, but, year by year it edges closer to technical and tactical expertise to put the USA on the bench. 

I think that, rather than make rude comments about China, Trump should be engaging in talks with China to withdraw its relationship with North Korea, which, IMHO, is in a position to ignite a major conflict, almost at will.  Granted, such a conflict may not last very long, but do we need instability in the Far East, as well as the Middle East?

BTW, again, media reports that Putin thinks Trump is a clown, notwithstanding Donalds leaning towards Russia as a friend.



"Reports " you say eh? If you believe these reports, let me tell you about a bridge for sale in Brooklyn. 
It's pretty obvious that you don't like Trump and never have. I guess that's why you are only upset by his behavior and not the lies and misinformation from democrats.
I see Obama as a narcissist wrapped in delusional denial who was a criminal drug dealer, who perpetrated Id fraud. So your knocks on Trump are mitigated by the absurd behavior that Obama displayed as president.

Trump has barely cracked a month as president why don't you wait to see what he actually does with China. How much does Australia like being on the bad side of China? Judging from the incident in 2009 regarding the travel visa for Uigher rebel leader Rebiya Kadeer, Australia does what it deems necessary whether China likes it or not. Maybe that's why China is now a concern, but do blame it all on Trump.  

Rude comments, seriously? Is China a nation of 13 year old girls? Or a crushing empire? 
Lots of people said Reagan was a clown, mostly democrats who wouldn't accept an actor as a serious politician.  Haha, now they are really ok with Hollywood and their opinions and their money. You are listening to the opposition and simply siding with them which is fine but you have no point that isn't countered by  the previous administration and their 8 years of ineffectual and faltering policies. 

I submit that after listening to media you have no accurate assessment of China and Trump or Putin and Trump. I admit that I don't either bc nothing has really happened yet just talk. And yes human rights violations are bigger and more threatening to the world at large than anything this President has said.


Edited by Vanuatu - 22 Feb 2017 at 04:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 06:11
Vanuatu wrote (in part)
Quote I submit that after listening to media you have no accurate assessment of China and Trump or Putin and Trump. I admit that I don't either bc nothing has really happened yet just talk. And yes human rights violations are bigger and more threatening to the world at large than anything this President has said.

 As I have admitted several times in the past, I only have media report s upon which to base my opinion of Trump. If those reports are inaccurate, then my assessment of him is wrong, but I don't think so.

Quote It's pretty obvious that you don't like Trump and never have. I guess that's why you are only upset by his behavior and not the lies and misinformation from democrats.
I see Obama as a narcissist wrapped in delusional denial who was a criminal drug dealer, who perpetrated Id fraud. So your knocks on Trump are mitigated by the absurd behavior that Obama displayed as president.

You're probably right in your statement. Again, I can only base my opinion on media reports. But, I'm far from being alone in my opinion of Trump.

As for Barak Obama, again, I base my views on media reports. IMHO, he always came across as a good man trying to do good things. If you don't agree, so be it. We don't have to agree on everything but that won't stop me showing you the respect you deserve and defending the right to your opinions.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 15:30
Thank you. Smile
Australia on the whole doesn't like the Trump personality. He has been an icon in US and around the world for decades. Obama was virtually unknown. You and the rest of the world have seen Trump at his worst and so you think he is undesirable. You never saw the Manchurian candidate (obama) in his darkest shadow bc the media would not allow it.
For me the truth isn't debatable about Trump its only what you think about the truth to be decided. Do you believe the media spin or not?
 There is always something to debate. Since the media is the opposition party their spin will always be suspect to me. Just as Trump has been deemed a liar and has to prove himself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2017 at 23:52
Does Trump own that bridge in Brooklyn?  Are you selling it on his behalf?

Vanuatu it seems like you are saying that Obama was really bad, and the media liked him, and the media dislikes Trump, therefore Trump must be really, really good.  I mean the argument has a nice symmetry to it, but that doesn't mean it is accurate.

Toyomotor, I wouldn't get too caught up on whether Trump is lying every 10 seconds.  If I tell you that the moon is made of green cheese, that would not be a lie, because you wouldn't believe me, and I would say that without any expectation that you would believe me.  A politician tries to be precise in their facts, I don't think Trump is, but neither is his fan club expecting him to be precise.  He is saying a lot for effect.  In the election, critics of Trump were said to take him literally, but not seriously, whereas his followers took him seriously but not literally.  Trump is an extraordinary individual as his followers are aware, whether he will rise to the occasion is entirely another question.  I don't think he is rising to it yet, and that is not because the media is critical of him.

The adds say, "Russians, date in your way."  Well Putin is kind of in Trump's way.  Do you suppose a date between them would solve anything?  (Probably for Putin, not for Trump).
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