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Ethnocentricity

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toyomotor View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 May 2014 at 07:47
In Europe and Asia over the past ten years or so, we have witnessed a rise in ethnocentricity-or at least that's how it appears.
 
Of course there have been tensions between certain ethnicities over hundreds of years, caused by politics and petty rivalry.
 
But in countries which are usually politically stable, we find examples of people who are ultra protective of their particular ethnicity. Why is that I wonder.
 
For myself, I have Irish ancestry, of which I'm very proud, and European ancestry also. But my ancient paternal ancestry is Japanese, I can't explain that.
 
I prefer to call myself Australian, if need be, I would fight for my countrys freedom and the upholding of its cultural values, but I'm not blind to the failings in the Australian makeup. There are faults in all people and these have to be understood, and overcome without resorting to blatant boasts of the prowess of one or the other ethnicity, and even violence.
 
What makes people ethnocentric?
 
Is it an over bloated sense of patriotism, insecurity, or jealousy?
 
Perhaps if people who could be generally classified as ethnocentric took a step back and accepted the failings or weaknesses of their ethnicity, and simply got on with life, the world would be a better place.
 
What do members think?
 
 


Edited by toyomotor - 06 May 2014 at 07:49
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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literaryClarity View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2014 at 10:20
People are not interested in your ethnicity remember?  This isn't anthroscape you said.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2014 at 12:07
Originally posted by literaryClarity literaryClarity wrote:

People are not interested in your ethnicity remember?  This isn't anthroscape you said.
 
Perhaps if you had read the OP, you would have found that I was talking about the ethnocentric stance adopted by some people, to the exclusion of fact, or rational thought.
 
It doesn't matter which ethnicity, it's about the unreasonable ethnocentricity that exists in this world.
 
Next time, read the post before sticking your nose in.
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2014 at 15:21
No I meant you broadcasted your ethnicity just like the other guy on the other thread showed a picture or someone's picture.  I have no beef with your post though I'm just thinking it's ironic a bit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2014 at 16:33
We've evolved as tribal creatures, and this has become rather ingrained in our psyches. We need our fellow tribesmen for the hunt and for defense, or so these ancient imperatives tell us. "Others" though might be a threat, either overtly due to outright attack, or infringement on our space, or passively, as in the case of the weak or handicapped, who might slow us down. Just take a look at the merciless behavior of kids at school towards  their fellows  who seems odd or malformed in some way, for an example of the latter. 

Today of course our "tribes" have become massive, and the need for such behaviors long obsolete. But evolution is designed to work on long timescales, and these sorts of behaviors have become buried under layers of complexity, but they are still there, at least in  many people. 

The more pressured we feel, the more we tend to react, on the whole. Today, the world is becoming ever smaller, and established cultures ever more in danger of being swamped by the larger world. As Europe has integrated under the policies of the EU, it is perhaps no surprise that some very small minority cultures (Scotland, Catalonia, Corsica, etc) have become more strident in trying to protect their status quo. Canada is another example. In North America, we live in a sea of English speakers, and so defensiveness over language rights is rare. In French speaking Quebec, the relatively tiny minority there is indeed in danger of being swamped by the larger culture, and so defensive behavior there is common.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eetion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2014 at 21:25
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

 
Perhaps if people who could be generally classified as ethnocentric took a step back and accepted the failings or weaknesses of their ethnicity, and simply got on with life, the world would be a better place.

Yes, legends told us different peacefully past

http://www.aquarianradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/tower_of_babel_2_s.jpg
researches say that people usually choose different person for a parter
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2014 at 01:54
Originally posted by literaryClarity literaryClarity wrote:

No I meant you broadcasted your ethnicity just like the other guy on the other thread showed a picture or someone's picture.  I have no beef with your post though I'm just thinking it's ironic a bit.
 
Sorry I got a bit snappy with you, I think I've misunderstood your post.
 
However, I only posted my background as an example of how genetically mixed we can be, and the fact that in being an ethnocentric, perhaps one can be backing the wrong horse.
 
Btw, when I use the term/word Ethnocentric, I'm not talking about your average person, loyal and proud of his country, but those who take it too far and defy common sense.
 
 
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Arlington Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2014 at 16:48
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

In Europe and Asia over the past ten years or so, we have witnessed a rise in ethnocentricity-or at least that's how it appears.
 

Of course there have been tensions between certain ethnicities over hundreds of years, caused by politics and petty rivalry.

 

But in countries which are usually politically stable, we find examples of people who are ultra protective of their particular ethnicity. Why is that I wonder.

 

For myself, I have Irish ancestry, of which I'm very proud, and European ancestry also. But my ancient paternal ancestry is Japanese, I can't explain that.

 

I prefer to call myself Australian, if need be, I would fight for my countrys freedom and the upholding of its cultural values, but I'm not blind to the failings in the Australian makeup. There are faults in all people and these have to be understood, and overcome without resorting to blatant boasts of the prowess of one or the other ethnicity, and even violence.

 

What makes people ethnocentric?

 

Is it an over bloated sense of patriotism, insecurity, or jealousy?

 

Perhaps if people who could be generally classified as ethnocentric took a step back and accepted the failings or weaknesses of their ethnicity, and simply got on with life, the world would be a better place.

 

What do members think?

 

 
Is it an over bloated sense of patriotism, insecurity, or jealousy




All of the above added to which is expansionism, colonialism, and the losing side oft times remembering the horrors that involved. Which is to say losers lose.

B/L?

Worry less about the past and quit tooling ethnocentricity for use as a political-ideological 'pc' or demagoguery tool to rouse dis satisfaction, anarchy and revenge. All then will be well.

Want to know how to be beat big government and the power of the wealthy elite?

Forget color and race and identify ethnocentric and nationalistic positive values. The crap will then flow loosely in their knickers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2014 at 03:32
Arlington:
Good to see you on WH, mate.
 
I agree with what you posted.
 
As ethnocentrism is so rife these days, I hope other members have their two bobs worth.
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arlington Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2014 at 20:22
Thanks Toyo. Once again I was falsely accused on that site as being someone I am not. Who ever this guy was...he must have been either a colossal pain in their nether regions or one who spoke the truth as he perceived it and was rejected then by the nascent 'want to be' intellectual frauds I found there; in the vast majority.

Shame really. Someone should try and track him down and invite him here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2014 at 03:37
Originally posted by Arlington Arlington wrote:

Thanks Toyo. Once again I was falsely accused on that site as being someone I am not. Who ever this guy was...he must have been either a colossal pain in their nether regions or one who spoke the truth as he perceived it and was rejected then by the nascent 'want to be' intellectual frauds I found there; in the vast majority.

Shame really. Someone should try and track him down and invite him here.
 
You'll find it much better here.
 
This forum, its admin and mods' leave AE and Historum in the shade.
 
But we don't really want their idiots over here.:)
 
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2014 at 03:59
The tribal part of me is reacting a bit with all the foreign influences in my country! I am starting to hate foreign food: Chinese, Japanese, Peruvian, Arab, Indian (from India), Mexican, whatever!!!

I just want to eat my local dishes!! (which are simple, but given we produce high quality food, they don't need much salads or dressings to taste good!)

Yeah. Forget those Mexican of Asian salsas!! We prefer to eat green chiles rough, with just a bit of salt on it, and just play if it burn our tongue!!


Edited by pinguin - 09 May 2014 at 04:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2014 at 04:02
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

The tribal part of me is reacting a bit with all the foreign influences in my country! I am starting to hate foreign food: Chinese, Japanese, Peruvian, Arab, Indian (from India), Mexican, whatever!!!

I just want to eat my local dishes!! (which are simple, but given we produce high quality food, they don't need much salads or dressings to taste good!)

Yeah. Forget those Mexican of Asian salsas!! We prefer to eat green chiles rough, with just a bit of salt on it, and just play if it burn our tongue!!
LOL
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2014 at 00:30
So, ethnocentricity is really only a form of tribalism?
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2014 at 01:01
Absolutely. My tribe uber alles.

By the way, I love this video. I found it is spectacular the way the movie-maker captured the idea of cultural shock and patriotism in the wrong place. From the series Pan-Am. Watch it.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2014 at 01:34
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Absolutely. My tribe uber alles.

By the way, I love this video. I found it is spectacular the way the movie-maker captured the idea of cultural shock and patriotism in the wrong place. From the series Pan-Am. Watch it.




 
Mein Gott, das ist nicht gut.
 
 
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2014 at 02:18
Why not? Just because Germans lose the war, it doesn't means only Yankee-British-Ethnocentricity is the right one.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2014 at 08:35
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Why not? Just because Germans lose the war, it doesn't means only Yankee-British-Ethnocentricity is the right one.

 
No, what I'm saying is that the singing of the German Anthem was inappropriate in that setting.
 
It wasn't relevant, or requested obviously leaving the onlookers stunned.
 
Pride in ones ethnicity is not a bad thing, until it's taken too far or is unreasonable.
 
Esta bien?
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2014 at 07:08
I am not very convinced there has been such a big rise, at least if what is meant a rise "from almost nothing". And I don\t like the term "ethnocentricity" very much. Untill not many years ago I think this term was unknown to me, so I would prefer "ethnic" or "national" pride. That said it is not at all such a novelty. Where I am now, Norway (the land of much of my family) there is definately traditions of "patriotism" not new at all. Blended nation and liberty, so also possitive elements here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2014 at 08:53
Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

I am not very convinced there has been such a big rise, at least if what is meant a rise "from almost nothing". And I don\t like the term "ethnocentricity" very much. Untill not many years ago I think this term was unknown to me, so I would prefer "ethnic" or "national" pride. That said it is not at all such a novelty. Where I am now, Norway (the land of much of my family) there is definately traditions of "patriotism" not new at all. Blended nation and liberty, so also possitive elements here.
 
 
Well it seems as though ethnocentricity has come to the fore in the past fifty years, but it could be that communications make it seem that way.
 
If you don't like "ethnocentricity", perhaps "tribalism" is more to your liking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2014 at 12:38
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

I am not very convinced there has been such a big rise, at least if what is meant a rise "from almost nothing". And I don\t like the term "ethnocentricity" very much. Untill not many years ago I think this term was unknown to me, so I would prefer "ethnic" or "national" pride. That said it is not at all such a novelty. Where I am now, Norway (the land of much of my family) there is definately traditions of "patriotism" not new at all. Blended nation and liberty, so also possitive elements here.
 
 
Well it seems as though ethnocentricity has come to the fore in the past fifty years, but it could be that communications make it seem that way.
 
If you don't like "ethnocentricity", perhaps "tribalism" is more to your liking.
So, whatever label we use, "tribalism" or another, it was not that signifikant during the years 1914-1964 compared with the period 1964-2014? I am a bit curious how You can see it that way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2014 at 12:48
Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

I am not very convinced there has been such a big rise, at least if what is meant a rise "from almost nothing". And I don\t like the term "ethnocentricity" very much. Untill not many years ago I think this term was unknown to me, so I would prefer "ethnic" or "national" pride. That said it is not at all such a novelty. Where I am now, Norway (the land of much of my family) there is definately traditions of "patriotism" not new at all. Blended nation and liberty, so also possitive elements here.
 
 
Well it seems as though ethnocentricity has come to the fore in the past fifty years, but it could be that communications make it seem that way.
 
If you don't like "ethnocentricity", perhaps "tribalism" is more to your liking.
So, whatever label we use, "tribalism" or another, it was not that signifikant during the years 1914-1964 compared with the period 1964-2014? I am a bit curious how You can see it that way.
 
 
I'm not saying that it wasn't more or less significant, it's just that between 1914 and 1948 I wasn't alive, between 1948 and about 1964 I wasn't really all that interested and, let's narrow it down even further, between 1964 and about 2000 I had other things on my mind.
 
I've agreed with your suggestion that modern communications technology might have made it seem more in the eye of the rest of the world, what more do you want?
 
 
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2014 at 14:18
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

I am not very convinced there has been such a big rise, at least if what is meant a rise "from almost nothing". And I don\t like the term "ethnocentricity" very much. Untill not many years ago I think this term was unknown to me, so I would prefer "ethnic" or "national" pride. That said it is not at all such a novelty. Where I am now, Norway (the land of much of my family) there is definately traditions of "patriotism" not new at all. Blended nation and liberty, so also possitive elements here.
 
 
Well it seems as though ethnocentricity has come to the fore in the past fifty years, but it could be that communications make it seem that way.
 
If you don't like "ethnocentricity", perhaps "tribalism" is more to your liking.
So, whatever label we use, "tribalism" or another, it was not that signifikant during the years 1914-1964 compared with the period 1964-2014? I am a bit curious how You can see it that way.
 
 
I'm not saying that it wasn't more or less significant, it's just that between 1914 and 1948 I wasn't alive, between 1948 and about 1964 I wasn't really all that interested and, let's narrow it down even further, between 1964 and about 2000 I had other things on my mind.
 
I've agreed with your suggestion that modern communications technology might have made it seem more in the eye of the rest of the world, what more do you want?
 
 
I was not alive before somewhat later, but both from persons that were alive at those times (like parents and grandparents generations), and from reading I have some information and a general impression about the years in question. And I think You only have to know a little about the two world wars to ask if it makes sense to say there was "little" tribalism those years (and since this is a history forum I would think other posters was at least somewhat interested in history, even that before themeselves).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2014 at 02:39
I'm not sure if the two World Wars could be classified as having been the result of tribalism, per se.
 
Certainly Hitler whipped the German people into an ethnocentric frenzy, "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer" seems to sum it up. He played on past grievances over the lands ceded to other countries following WWI and really played the racist card.
 
Tribalism, but not ethnocentricity, in my mind could be best seen in the so called "Soccer Hooligans" brawls, while ethnocentricity is the focus of Neo Nazism, both of which I consider the rawest and worst examples that I can think of. 
 
The Bosnian war could, imo, be described as ethnocentric and religious.
 
But the most insidious, undoubtedly, is the ethnocentricity that receives no publicity until it bubbles to the surface with tragic results, often after years of discrimination by one group on another.
 
I suppose there will always be ethnocentrism to one degree or another, and all the talking that could be done will not change that.
 
 
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2014 at 04:14
I just detest one confusion. "Ethnicity" is not the same that "race".
For instance, Blacks of the U.S. are better described in ethnic terms like Afro-saxons, because they are ethnically closer to white Americans than to anyone else. In ethnic terms, white Americans share with them the same culture, which is not the case between Black Americans and Nigerians or Ugandians. Also, White Americans are closer in ethnicity to Black Americans than they are to Russians or Polish, for instance.

So, if we are talking about racism, let us explain it clearly. If we are talking about ethnicity, we should consider that Muslims in former Yugoslavia are not different physically from Christians in the same country.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2014 at 06:53
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

I just detest one confusion. "Ethnicity" is not the same that "race".
For instance, Blacks of the U.S. are better described in ethnic terms like Afro-saxons, because they are ethnically closer to white Americans than to anyone else. In ethnic terms, white Americans share with them the same culture, which is not the case between Black Americans and Nigerians or Ugandians. Also, White Americans are closer in ethnicity to Black Americans than they are to Russians or Polish, for instance.

So, if we are talking about racism, let us explain it clearly. If we are talking about ethnicity, we should consider that Muslims in former Yugoslavia are not different physically from Christians in the same country.

 
ethnicity
 
noun
noun: ethnicity; plural noun: ethnicities

the fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition.

ethnocentricity
(ethnocentric) centered on a specific ethnic group, usually one's own
 
 
 
The traditional definition of race and ethnicity is related to biological and sociological factors respectively. Race refers to a person's physical appearance, such as skin color, eye color, hair color, bone/jaw structure etc. Ethnicity, on the other hand, relates to cultural factors such as nationality, culture, ancestry, language and beliefs.

For example, take the Caucasian race. The physical characteristics of Caucasians were described by M. A. MacConaill, as being "light skin and eyes, narrow noses, and thin lips. Their hair is usually straight or wavy". Caucasoids are said to have the lowest degree of projection of the alveolar bones which contain the teeth, a notable size prominence of the cranium and forehead region, and a projection of the midfacial region. A person whose appearance matches these characteristics is said to be a Caucasian. However, there are many ethnicities within the Caucasian race e.g. Irish, Welsh, German, French, Spanish (as in the true meaning from Spain) Slovak etc. What differentiates these ethnic groups from each other is their country of origin, language they speak, cultural heritage and traditions, beliefs and rituals.

Capice?
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2014 at 14:49
I do.

With respect to the "true" meaning of Spanish, the confusion didn't come from Latin America but from the U.S. In the spanish-speaking countries of the New World we are quite clear we aren't "Spanish" but people who are mainly Spanish in ancestry but with other European origins as well, without forgetting our Indigenous roots. So, we don't try to play "Spanish". Even more, Spain is not much admired in Latin America either, except for its artistic and literary production.

And in Latin America we also have it very clear we don't belong to the same ethnic group, but to related people with certain culture in common, but not all is the same. We also know it very well we don't belong to the same racial stocks, and our mixtures are different. So, racism and class differences are very present in here.






Edited by pinguin - 21 May 2014 at 14:52
A point of view from the antipodes
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