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European links to Ancient Americans

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toyomotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2014 at 08:50
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Too bad, Toyomotor, you don't speak Spanish. Otherwise, you will realize how much Latin Americans hate Spaniards for conquer us. We still ask them to return the silver!!!
 
But there's nothing we can do about it now, so there's no point in getting heartburn over it.
 
I reckon there's hardly a conquered country in the world whose people don't feel the same way.
 
As for the silver, best of luck.Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2014 at 05:41
Just to comment it, now that Spain's economy is going down the sink, Spaniards are starting to migrate again to Latin America; but this time they aren't very welcome at all.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2014 at 14:01
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Just to comment it, now that Spain's economy is going down the sink, Spaniards are starting to migrate again to Latin America; but this time they aren't very welcome at all.

 
So, if they come to South America, you could get some silver back after all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2014 at 20:17
They should return it to Bolivians, particularly Potosi, that was the source of wealth of the Spanish Empire, and that today is one of the poorer countries of South America.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2014 at 20:05
I am truly sorry that Bolivia is a poor nation today, but think a moment, how many rotten governments have they set up there since "independence?"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2014 at 02:44
The rotten governments arrived with the Spaniards. Remember that crazy people of the Iberian Peninsula only reached democracy in the 1980s!!! During all its history, Spaniards had been dominated by dictators, and that sick society, full of classism, abuses and laziness, was exported and cloned into the Americas. It is really unbelievable we aren't a poor region like Africa, given that influence.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2014 at 20:36
Now my dear flightless bird friend, you really have outdone yourself. You have made three large mistakes in one post, and I am afraid from what I have seen earlier this is a by no means unique experience.

First you change topic, always a horrible sin in a debate, especially considering you do it twice!

Secondly when you say the Spanish had only "reached" democracy 1980s, you act like that is the crowning of all human achievements, and conveniently forget that they were in a democratic monarchy in the seventh to at least ninth centuries.   Of course they had a sick society, and classism, ect. but for all that they did conquer the new world, which in your atheistic worldview of might makes right is perfectly fine.

Thirdly you make a direct jab at Africa, under the false assumption that South Americans are superior to Africans, a blatant bit of the dreaded "R word." If you think that your fine little country in South America is better then most of Africa you are right, but you have the Communists of Cuba, and Russia to thank for that.

(P.S. If it sounds like I am ranting, oh well, it is time someone told you something straight)   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2014 at 03:42
Originally posted by Voltage Voltage wrote:

Now my dear flightless bird friend, you really have outdone yourself. You have made three large mistakes in one post, and I am afraid from what I have seen earlier this is a by no means unique experience.

First you change topic, always a horrible sin in a debate, especially considering you do it twice!

Secondly when you say the Spanish had only "reached" democracy 1980s, you act like that is the crowning of all human achievements, and conveniently forget that they were in a democratic monarchy in the seventh to at least ninth centuries.   Of course they had a sick society, and classism, ect. but for all that they did conquer the new world, which in your atheistic worldview of might makes right is perfectly fine.

Thirdly you make a direct jab at Africa, under the false assumption that South Americans are superior to Africans, a blatant bit of the dreaded "R word." If you think that your fine little country in South America is better then most of Africa you are right, but you have the Communists of Cuba, and Russia to thank for that.

(P.S. If it sounds like I am ranting, oh well, it is time someone told you something straight)   
 
Voltage:
Best of luck to you. My mate the Pinguin has his own unique views on the world, and to call him a proud South American is an understatement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2014 at 06:31
Thank you for your warnings, but I know him from slightly older times for what he is a 'ahem' "proud South American." That is no fault of his, but on the other hand the rabid (or least venomous)attacks on my adopted land of Africa is other matter. I am I believe in a better position to judge things over here, as having lived here over 12 years, while he has simply read the wiki edition.

I do not mind being told how South America runs, by a "local" but kindly leave Africa alone in your posts, especially in ones that our targeted at South America originally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2014 at 02:45
Why should I leave Africa alone? To the imperialistic mind of the developed countries, Africa and Latin America are the SAME thing.
However, Latin America has an income per capita 10 times that of Africa. Besides, statistics on alphabetism, school level, infrastructure (for instance, Latin America is the most urban region on the planet, and Africa is the less), etc, all shows we are different worlds, at least in terms of development.

As for Cuba, even ruined as it is thanks to the Castro mafia family, it is still quite advanced in intellectual terms. And don't forget that once Cuba fought against South Africa directly in Africa, and blew the SA Army's back far away Ouch

Yes, in the future perhaps Africa will have our standard of living and educational level as well; nobody is arguing that. But today we aren't the same.
And yes, South Africa is an exception, but no matter that, the level of poverty and inequality in South Africa is huge. In South Africa a very small minority has most of the money, and the rest lives as it can.

Thanks you.


Edited by pinguin - 29 May 2014 at 02:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2014 at 04:21
Dear Penguin I follow an old maximum picked up on lives merry way. If you do not know your facts, do not try to prove this to the rest of the world. Here is a quote to prove my point.

At one hostile press conference in Windhoek, Colonel Deon Ferreira, the Operational Commander of Operations Modular, Hooper and Packer, was challenged to respond to accusations that South Africans had been beaten in the just concluded battles in Angola. He responded, tongue in cheek: "If defeat for South Africa meant the loss of 31 men, 3 tanks, 5 armoured vehicles and 3 aircraft, then we lost. If the victory for FAPLA and the Cubans meant the loss of 4,600 men, 94 tanks, 100 armoured vehicles, 9 aircraft, and other Soviet equipment valued at more than a billion Rand, then they won!"

I think I am justified in saying the Cubans were the ones who got blown away, and even the Cubans had to admit it, see following for reason why.

Victors are Not Executed by Their Own Side

Facts are stubborn things. Such as the fact that supreme communist Commander for Angola, Cuban General Aranaldo Ochoa Sanchez, was executed by firing squad, less than a year later, in Havana, Cuba.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2014 at 04:40
Whatever. We, Chileans as for most Latin Americans, wouldn't go there to fight a war for Africans. Only crazy Castro could do that.
But the differences in development stand. And I know the economical reality of South Africa, which is on one side a developed country living side by side with poverty at the level of rural India. In Latin America that's not the way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2014 at 05:07
So you are all poor in South America? I have been there (briefly) and they appeared not to have discovered the meaning the term two lane roads.

I have looked up the difference, and you are correct that you guys have twice income per person average, and also you are correct that South Africa is the best of Africa.   

There our multiple reasons for this, such as the lack of work ethic, endemic corruption, ect. Also you do not have 11 official languages to slow everything down, and racist labour laws to stifle business. Consider yourself fortunate at that, but remember until 1994 South Africa was a power capable to take on even Russia (single-handed)(which it did) and win.   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2014 at 05:21
Well, poverty depends where in South America you go. I live in Chile, and the standard of living of the population is similar to Portugal, Greece or other parts of the "underdeveloped" Europe, for instance, and we are quite at the edge of been considered a developed country. In here, we almost don't have chanty towns for instance, and 99% percent of people has running water, sewer, electric light, etc. Even in the poorest part of town you find cars, and although we still has some indigents, the scale is not the same as in some parts of Mexico or Brazil. In fact, Argentina shows more poverty than we do.

Bolivia is poorer, but even in there most the population is in a similar condition, so it can be better stand, and yes, Bolivia has a real Third World standard but still is making some progress. Other countries like Peru, are progressing fast. Colombia is not really poor, but it is a country still out of control because of criminality. Brazil has extremes of poverty and richness, but also is an industrial country that manufactures from airliners jets to subway wagons and even launch its own rockets. Venezuela is a former rich country that went down the sink because of populism; but that may change in the future. It just need a good coup. And Argentina maybe an economical disaster, but still managed to have Nobel prizes in science and outstanding figures.

And yes, in Latin America you can move from Tijuana to the Land of Fire speaking just two related languages: Spanish and Portuguese.




Edited by pinguin - 29 May 2014 at 05:23
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