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Europeans in Ancient China

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    Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 07:04
 
SUMMARY:
 
The information posted below indicates that there was a European presence in ancient China as far back as 3000 BCE. It also shows that the Europeans were scattered over a fair distance.
 
What I find interesting is that the skeletal remains of Europeans, and admixed Mongoloid/Europeans existed in China at about the same time that China was becoming a civilisation, as we currently refer to it.
 
Also of interest is that there seems to be no mention of Europeans in early Chinese texts.
 
One is left pondering what, if any, influence these Europeans may have had on Chinese culture and the development of the culture, including language.
 
In posting this thread, I considered it necessary to post an extract of the study by Kangxin Han.
 
Quote HAN Kangxin: "The Study of Ancient Human Skeletons from Xmjiang, China"
Sino-Platonic Papers, 5 1 (November, 1994)
The Study of Ancient Human Skeletons from Xinjiang, China
HAN Kangxin
Institute of Archeology,
Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, Beijing
 
Xinjiang is one of the main areas of contact and movement between the Eastern and
Western races of the Eurasian continent. It is also an important area of the ancient "Silk
Road" going to Central Asia. Therefore, the physical anthropological study of the racial
characteristics of the ancient populations in this area is an important aspect of tracing the
modem racial origins of the people of Xinjiang and the Central Asian region.
Between 1920 and 1940, only three foreign scientists published completed research
in this area. They are: Arthur Keith of England (1929), Carl-Herman Hjortsjo and Ander
Walander of Germany (1924) and A.N. Iuzefovich of the USSR (1949). A total of twenty
skulls were described. Five came from the northern part of the Taklamakan Desert and
Keith thought they characterized the "Loulan racial type." Eleven skulls were collected by
Sven Hedin from near Luobubo (Lopnor) in 1928 and 1934, and have been subdivided
into three groups (Nordic, Chinese, and Alpine) by Hjortsjo and Walander. The remaining
skulls also came from the Luobubo (Lopnor) area and exhibit Mongoloid characteristics.
Iuzefovich considered these to be of Tujue (Turkish) origin (Keith, A., 1929; Hjortsjo,
C.H. and A. Walander, 1942; Iusefovich, A.N., 1949).
 
It should be pointed out that all the materials mentioned above were recovered by
Western explorers who did not make systematic archeological excavations. The twenty
shlls came from nine different localities which are all poorly dated, so it is very difficult to
discuss the racial composition of the ancient population of Xinjiang according to these
materials alone. Chinese scientists have conducted systematic excavations in this region
since 1940. I have studied all the skeletal material housed at the Institute of Archeology of
Xinjiang and analyzed the physical and racial characteristics of these human bones. The
materials included about 274 skulls which were collected from nine ancient cemeteries in
Xinjiang. The cemeteries range in age from about 1800 B.C.E. to 300 C.E.
The distribution of these cemeteries (Fig. I), their precise age, and the racial
morphological characteristics of the skeletal material will be described as follows:
 
(1) The Gumugou cemetery of the lower reaches of the Kongque River
The cemetery is situated on the dunes of the second terrace of the northern shore of
the lower reaches of the Kongque River, about 70 km. east of the dried Luobubo (Lopnor)
Lake. Chinese scholars have different opinions about its age, but most of the C-14 dates
are around 3800 years B.P. (Wang Binghua, 1983). If we accept this fact, then it is
possible that the cemetery was in use during the Bronze Age. A field team from the
Institute of Archeology of Xinjiang has excavated 42 graves and recovered 18 skulls (1 1
male and 7 female). Average morphological characteristics of these skulls are: elongated,
narrow, and high cranial vault, with relatively low and wide facial dimensions and strongly
projecting nasal bones. The superciliary arc and glabella projection of the males are very
strong, with rectangular orbits and broad nasal aperture. The facial projection is clear in
transverse plane and weak in sagittal plane. The occipital region is circular when viewed
from behind and the obelion-lambda region is flattened (Han Kangxin, 1986b).
To sum up, these skulls have definite Western racial characteristics. The
homogeneity between individuals also is clear. In consideration of the synthetic character
mentioned above, they seem to show some primitive features which have collectively been
called "Proto-European type" by some anthropologists of the former USSR in the past
Racially, they are close to the populations of the Bronze Age of southern Siberia,
Kazakhstan, Central Asia, and even the grassland areas of the lower reaches of the Volga
River- (Han Kangxin, 1 986b).
 
(2) The Alagou cemetery, Tian Mountains
This cemetery is located in the Alagou area of the southern margin of the Turfan
basin There are three different patterns of graves in this cemetery. The human bones were
collected from a group grave dug out of large gravel. Their age is about 2700-2000 B.P.
Among 58 skulls, 33 belong to males and 25 to females. Most of the skulls are possessed
of Western racial characteristics, but also show some variation. For example, one subset
of them resembles the East Mediterranean type with long and high cranial vaults (Indo-
Afghan), other crania are somewhat broader or round headed and similar to that of the
Pamir-Ferghana, the remainder of the crania combine features of both of these groups.
Nasal apertures are typically high and narrow as are the orbits, but facial projection in the
transverse plane is identical with that of the Pamir-Ferghana group. This may indicate that
there was some mixture between the two different European races (Han Kangxin, 1993).
In addition, a few of the skeletons in the group graves of Alagou are of mixed
Mongoloid and European ancestry (Han Kangxin, 1990).
 
(3) The Yanbulak cemetery, Liushuquan, Hami
This cemetery is situated on an earthen hill called Yanbulak nearby Liushuquan,
Hami region. The rectangular graves were lined with adobe bricks made of sand and earth
from the Gobi. Their age is about 3 100-2500 years B.P. Most of the graves have been
disturbed and bone preservation is poor. About 76 graves have been excavated but only 29
complete skulls were obtained. Twenty-one of them are of clear East Mongoloid character,
eight can be classified as belonging to the Western race. The general morphological
character of the skulls classified as Mongoloid are elongated with fairly wide orbits and
close to that of the East Tibetan populations. The skulls with Western racial character are
close to that of the Gumugou cemetery of the lower reaches of the Kongque River in their
morphology (Han Kangxin, 1990).
 
In a word, elements of Eastern and Western races co-existed in the ancient
populations of the Hami region, but the former are dominant. According to the unearthed
painted pottery, the ancient culture of the area bears a close relationship with that of the
Bronze Age of eastern areas such as Gansu and Qinghai (Kokonor) (Han Kangxin, 1990).
 
(4) The east suburbs cemetery of Loulan
The cemetery is situated on the two high terraces of the eastern suburbs of Loulan.
There are many utensils characterized by Han dynasty culture of the middle-lower reaches
of the Yellow River among the funerary objects such as brocades, rough silk, silk floss,
bronze mirrors, lacquerware, Wuzhu coins, etc. The date of this cemetery is rather late,
about 1800 years B.P. (corresponding to the Eastern Han dynasty). Among six skulls
from the cemetery five belong to males and one is that of a female. Only one skull shows
Mongoloid characteristics and the rest possess clear European characteristics; elongated and high cranial vaults, narrow nasal aperture, high arched nasal bones, and high orbits. These characteristics are similar to that of the Saka population of the south Pamir within the
former USSR about the sixth century B.C.E. In other words, they are close to that of the
East Mediterranean in morphological character. One female skull with Mongoloid
characteristics (such as flat facial skeleton, high and wide face and low nasal projection,
broad cranial vault, and so on) differs from the other five male skulls in morphology (Han
Kangxin, 1986a).
 
(5) The Shanpula cemetery, Luopu
This cemetery is situated at the southwest margin of the Taklamakan Desert. The
shape of the graves in the cemetery is various: log coffin burial, boat-shaped wooden coffin
burial, combined coffin burial and large group graves with more than 100 persons. The
human bones including 56 individual skeletons came from the latter kind of graves.
According to the associated archeological utensils from these graves, the culture of the
population occupying this area has a close relationship with that of the middle-lower
reaches of the Yellow River. The age of the large group graves is about 2200 years B.P.
(C- 14). Professor Shao Xingzhou (1988) thought that the human bones from Shanpula
mainly possessed Mongoloid characteristics with certain European features as well. But I
believe that they are mainly of European character (elongated and high vault with narrow
nasal aperture) and actually are close to that of the East Mediterranean and also similar to
that of the ancient Saka of the south Pamir within the former USSR (Han Kangxin, et. al.,
1987a; Han Kangxin, 1989).
 
(6) The Xiangbaobao cemetery, Tajik
The cemetery is located in the Tajik autonomous county, Tashkurgan
(Tashikulahan), Pamir plateau. There are two kinds of burials: cremation and underground
burial. The age of this cemetery is about 2800-2500 B.P. (C-14 dating of coffin wood).
Only one skull was collected and this has strong Western characteristics, for instance, small
frontal slope, unpronounced superciliary arc and glabella projection, marked nasal
projection, narrow nasal aperture, strong facial projection, and narrow facial dimensions.
These characteristics are close to that of both the modern East Meditemnean and the ancient Saka of the south Pamir within the former USSR (Han Kangxin, 1987~).
 
(7) The Tudunmu cemetery, Zhaosu of the upper reaches of the Yili River
"Tudunmu" means a kind of tomb with the shape of an earthen mound (kurgan).
They are distributed in Xiatai, Boma, etc. of the Zhaosu region, near the boundary between
China and Kazakhstan. The age of this cemetery is about 2400- 1800 years B.P. according
to the geographical position, unearthed utensils, and C- 14 dating. Some archeologists
consider that the human remains from the cemetery belong to the ancient Saka and Wusun.
Most of the 13 skulls (seven male and six female) come from the Wusun graves and only
two from the Saka, but they are all similar in morphological characteristics. These skulls
have shortened cranial vaults and 1 1 among them can be classified as Western Caucasoid.
The male skulls are more robust, with middle degree of profile angle of the frontal bone,
pronounced projection of the superciliary and glabella region, deep nasion depression, higher and middle degree of width of facial bones, middle degree of facial projection of transverse plane, moderately deep suborbital fossa, mostly with wide orbits and strongly projecting nasal bones. The nasal spine has a moderate level of projection, the lower margin of the piriform aperture is anthropine in form and of average breadth.
 
 There exist clear variations between individuals, but in general they bear a resemblance to that of the Pamir-Ferghana, the latter having broad cranial vaults without strong Western racial characteristics. Two female skulls show obvious Mongoloid characteristics, perhaps a
mixed type of the two races. Most of the skulls from the cemetery, as far as their
morphological type is concerned, bear analogy with that of the Saka and Wusun
populations in Central Asia, but differ from that of the Ancient Saka of the Mediterranean
type with elongated and high cranial vaults in the south Pamir within the former USSR
(Han Kangxin, et. al., 1987b).
 
Up to now, no paleoanthropological materials of lithic age with conclusive evidence
have been discovered in the Xinjiang area. For certain cultural remains referred to by some
scientists as being of lithic age, there exist a good deal of queries. So far as age is
concerned, some of these cultural remains are younger than previously thought. Thus,
before reliable materials of lithic age are found, we temporarily suppose that this area is not
included in the scope of origin of Homo sapiens. Based on the analysis of the materials of
seven cemeteries mentioned above, it can be indicated that the source of racial
morphological characteristics of the ancient population in Xinjiang is not unitary (Fig. 2).
For example, there are at least three branches of the Caucasoid race and not merely one type from the Mongoloid race. Consequently , their emergence and distribution in Xinj iang as well as origin of typology cannot be completely the same. The racial composition of the
modern population of Xinjiang is closely related to this biological background of complex
racial origins (Han Kangxin, 1985, 199 1).
 
The following inferences can be made according to the recently available
information:
At least by the early Bronze Age of this area, Western racial elements with primitive
morphological characteristics had entered into the Luobubo (Lopnor) area. Their physical
character is close to that of the ancient populations of Central Asia (including Kazakhstan),
southern Siberia, and the Volga River drainage basin with the boundaries of the former
USSR. As far as their racial origins are concerned, they have a direct relationship with the
ancestors of the analogous Cro Magnon (Homo sapiens) type of late Paleolithic east
Europe. Such type of late Homo sapiem was also found in the Voronezh region of the
Don River drainage. The morphological character of these skulls is apparently similar to
that of those skulls from the Gumugou cemetery of the Kongque River, but more primitive
than the latter.
 
Several centuries B.C.E. or a little earlier, other racial elements close to that of the
East Mediterranean in physical character entered into the western part of Xinjiang from the
Central Asian region of the former USSR. Their movement was from west to east
(Xiangbaobao, Tashkurgan, Shanpula-Luopu, Loulan cemeteries). In other words, some
of them gradually moved along the southern margin of the Tarim Basin to the Lopnor area
and converged with the existing population in the region. This may shed some light on the
origins of racial variation in the Loulan kingdom. In addition, it is also possible that some
Mediterranean elements crossed to the Tian Mountain region along the northern margin of
the Tarim Basin and mixed with the previous population (for instance, as in the Alagou
cemetery). It is helpful for understanding the inferences drawn above that the human bones
discovered in the Neolithic graves of the Central Asia region of the former USSR (such as
Anau of Turkmenistan about 6000-5000 years B.P.) belong to the Mediterranean racial
type and the ancient Saka bones from the south and southeast parts of the former USSR
(the Parnirs, about 6 centuries B.C.E.), which are adjacent to Xinjiang, belong to the same
racial type. All the anthropological materials mentioned above seem to indicate that the
opening of the ancient "Silk Road" from Xinjiang to Central Asia supported an eastward
migration of the early Mediterranean population of Central Asia across the Pamir plateau
 
Several centuries B.C.E., or perhaps earlier, some Western racial elements (for
example, shortened and high cranial vaults) emerged in the upper reaches of the Yili River
and Tarim Mountains (for instance, Zhaosu and Alagou cemeteries). How did this racial
element form? It is not obvious. Some scientists believe that they developed from the
Proto-European with a change in cranial morphology to a more shortened vault, with the
addition of some Mongoloid features. But it is not certain what Mongoloid elements were
involved. Some scholars have argued that it is the result of a mixture of Proto-European
and Mediterranean racial elements. How far these people spread into Xinjiang and the
extent of the distribution of this racial element are the subject of continued research.
The earliest time of emergence of the East Mongoloid population in Xinjiang is still
not clear. They appeared in this area in groups about 3000 years B.P. or a bit earlier
(mainly in the eastern [N.B.] part of Xinjiang, for example, the Yanbulak cemetery,
Hami).
 
 They were also found in cemeteries farther west but highly scattered and in small
numbers. Only about 10 percent among the 274 crania described in this report are
Mongoloid in morphology. Most of them have elongated and high cranial vaults with a
narrow face and are not representative of the typical continental Mongoloid skull with a
broad cranial vault and facial dimensions. It can be inferred according to these phenomena
that until at least several centuries B.C.E. the eastward movement of the Western race to
Xinjiang was more rapid than the western movement of Mongoloid people. Both the scale
and rate of the former were greater. A branch among them had already appeared in the
Hami area of eastern Xinjiang about 10 centuries B.C.E.; the time of large scale westward
movement of Mongoloid peoples may not have begun until the Han dynasty. This is in
accord with written records about the tide of westward movement of Xiongnu (Huns) and
Tujue (Turks).
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2014 at 22:09
Quote
SUMMARY:
 
The information posted below indicates that there was a European presence in ancient China as far back as 3000 BCE. It also shows that the Europeans were scattered over a fair distance.
 
What I find interesting is that the skeletal remains of Europeans, and admixed Mongoloid/Europeans existed in China at about the same time that China was becoming a civilisation, as we currently refer to it.


Where in your source does it say 3000 BCE?  It talks about the Tarim mummies whom arrived 3000 BP.  Where are the Tarim Basin writings?  Where are Mongol writings?  If you cannot produce them I would refrain from making such unsupported remarks as to Mongoloid/Europeans presence in China in context of civilizational inception for the way we know China as it is today.

For the record I think it is totally academically dishonest when one pushes for an equivalence of BCE and BP.



Edited by literaryClarity - 27 Jun 2014 at 22:10
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arlington Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2014 at 22:51
I have no soldats in this fight. Less one.

''For the record I think it is totally academically dishonest when one pushes for an equivalence of BCE and BP.''


For the record. I blame atheists, liberals, socialists-and fanatic secularists; bowing to the pc ness of homosexuals and other non traditionalist values and self interest groups, in creating the terminology u use.

BC/AD were fine for nearly 2 thousand years.

Then the young were taught pc ness and not tradition. Let alone how history was tied to tradition.


Let alone, how as the contextual values and mores change over time, that the traditionalist was castigated, for remaining firm to tradition without be acknowledged, as non the less, being willing to accept the civil liberties that needed to be enforced.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2014 at 23:31
Shhhh, talking so much doesn't change anything.  He said 3000BCE when the source he used clearly said 3000BP.
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2014 at 02:29
Originally posted by literaryClarity literaryClarity wrote:

Quote
SUMMARY:
 
The information posted below indicates that there was a European presence in ancient China as far back as 3000 BCE. It also shows that the Europeans were scattered over a fair distance.
 
What I find interesting is that the skeletal remains of Europeans, and admixed Mongoloid/Europeans existed in China at about the same time that China was becoming a civilisation, as we currently refer to it.


Where in your source does it say 3000 BCE?  It talks about the Tarim mummies whom arrived 3000 BP.  Where are the Tarim Basin writings?  Where are Mongol writings?  If you cannot produce them I would refrain from making such unsupported remarks as to Mongoloid/Europeans presence in China in context of civilizational inception for the way we know China as it is today.

For the record I think it is totally academically dishonest when one pushes for an equivalence of BCE and BP.

 
If you actually read the post, you will see that some of the grave sites have been dated.
 
Who mentioned Tarim Basin writings? Who mentioned Mongol writings? Not me.
 
I've never said that BP and BCE were the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2014 at 02:41
Originally posted by literaryClarity literaryClarity wrote:

Shhhh, talking so much doesn't change anything.  He said 3000BCE when the source he used clearly said 3000BP.
 
If I did, it was an error.
 
Let he among you.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2014 at 07:35
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

[QUOTE=literaryClarity]Shhhh, talking so much doesn't change anything.  He said 3000BCE when the source he used clearly said 3000BP.
 
If I did, it was an error.
 
Let he among you.....
 
Btw, my apologies, I had intended to ignore you. I will in future.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2014 at 06:13
 
The authors confirm the existance of European people in South Siberia during the relevant time. It is therefore plausible, imo, that some of these people found their way to the Americas during one of the Migrations, as well as to Northern China-as revealed by the Tarim Basin Mummies.
Quote

Abstract

To help unravel some of the early Eurasian steppe migration movements, we determined the Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial haplotypes and haplogroups of 26 ancient human specimens from the Krasnoyarsk area dated from between the middle of the second millennium BC. to the fourth century AD. In order to go further in the search of the geographic origin and physical traits of these south Siberian specimens, we also typed phenotype-informative single nucleotide polymorphisms. Our autosomal, Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial DNA analyses reveal that whereas few specimens seem to be related matrilineally or patrilineally, nearly all subjects belong to haplogroup R1a1-M17 which is thought to mark the eastward migration of the early Indo-Europeans. Our results also confirm that at the Bronze and Iron Ages, south Siberia was a region of overwhelmingly predominant European settlement, suggesting an eastward migration of Kurgan people across the Russo-Kazakh steppe. Finally, our data indicate that at the Bronze and Iron Age timeframe, south Siberians were blue (or green)-eyed, fair-skinned and light-haired people and that they might have played a role in the early development of the Tarim Basin civilization. To the best of our knowledge, no equivalent molecular analysis has been undertaken so far.

 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2014 at 16:52
http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/ancient-skull-little-girl-found-submerged-cave-oldest-found-north-america/#axzz368beHInj
Quote
Naia is providing DNA evidence that is changing the way that scientists understand how the earliest Americans came to inhabit the Americas.

The Kurgan hypothesis is wrong.




Edited by literaryClarity - 30 Jun 2014 at 16:54
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2014 at 04:56
Originally posted by literaryClarity literaryClarity wrote:

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/ancient-skull-little-girl-found-submerged-cave-oldest-found-north-america/#axzz368beHInj
Quote
Naia is providing DNA evidence that is changing the way that scientists understand how the earliest Americans came to inhabit the Americas.

The Kurgan hypothesis is wrong.
 
Nowhere does your source say this. The source is all about the well known Naia skull-it's old news.
 
Once again you provide a source and then misrepresent its contents. Did you think that we wouldn't bother to read it? In that vein, your post is fraudulent.
 
If you maintain that the Kurgan Hypothesis is wrong, provide some evidence that can be discussed or debated.
 
Let's not have any of your past stupidity!


Edited by toyomotor - 01 Jul 2014 at 05:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2014 at 17:58
You know people to put up links to prevent people from reading? The Kurgan hypothesis to Americas is indeed wrong because the evidence denies the claim of him having been first in America.  There were others before the "Kurgan" man.  Case closed.
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2014 at 04:44
Originally posted by literaryClarity literaryClarity wrote:

You know people to put up links to prevent people from reading? The Kurgan hypothesis to Americas is indeed wrong because the evidence denies the claim of him having been first in America.  There were others before the "Kurgan" man.  Case closed.
 
I'm not quite sure what you mean about this.
 
But, in any case, you have turned just about every post I've made into a personal attack on me. For this reason I will not respond to any more of your posts, on any topic.
 
So don't waste your time trying to bait me any more. END
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2014 at 06:36
I use hard evidence to justify refuting your comments so you can try all you want to cry about personal attacks but just so you know you would be the one faulting on grounds of membership conduct.  You cannot hold liability against people for the information they put up just because you are displeased.  For your information I never hold you accountable with the information you put up but merely assign judgement for the ideas which you have presented.  I use a healthy line of questioning, evaluation/criticism, opposing evidences and rhetoric.
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alpha NOVA Omega Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2014 at 09:06
Mohist, are u on any other forums? And how can i read PM on this website?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/07/02/326947693/thanks-to-extinct-humans-tibetans-adapted-to-high-altitude

^ What do you think of this new finding? Tibetans + denisovans = adaptation to high altitudes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2014 at 09:56
Originally posted by Alpha NOVA Omega Alpha NOVA Omega wrote:

Mohist, are u on any other forums? And how can i read PM on this website?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/07/02/326947693/thanks-to-extinct-humans-tibetans-adapted-to-high-altitude

^ What do you think of this new finding? Tibetans + denisovans = adaptation to high altitudes.
 
1. Click on New Messages in second Lt Grey bar-next to Member Control Panel.
 
2. This makes sense. We who usually live in lower altitudes would find it hard to breath. The Denisovans, who originated in Eastern Europe, and who mixed with AMH could well have produced the genetic basis for easier high altitude living.
 
Imo, it's either that or natural adaptation over the millenia.
 
 
 
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It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2014 at 01:54
Originally posted by Alpha NOVA Omega Alpha NOVA Omega wrote:

Mohist, are u on any other forums? And how can i read PM on this website?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/07/02/326947693/thanks-to-extinct-humans-tibetans-adapted-to-high-altitude

^ What do you think of this new finding? Tibetans + denisovans = adaptation to high altitudes.


I'm also on allempires.com as theSinitic, forumbiodiversity.com as Toohoo, asianfanatics.net as Toohoo.  If you join forumbiodiversity.com you will be monitored for your first 30 posts.

Thanks for the news on the Tibetans and gaining high altitude adaptation genes.  I think there would be something left to be said about the timeframe such an event occured.


Edited by literaryClarity - 05 Jul 2014 at 04:27
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thorvald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2015 at 12:33
Among the Uygurs, there is without Doubt European traces to find:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2008/03/uyghurs-are-hybrids/
http://politicalforum.informe.com/forum/genetics-f125/the-uygurs-t1051.html

 
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2015 at 12:48
I suspect so-called "European" traits originated to the East of Europe, or at least partially not in Western Europe so "Europeans" originated in parts mof Russia/Ukraine or parts of Asia - Central Asia.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thorvald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2015 at 11:02
Probably the plains of Southern Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan 

http://germanicrealm.informe.com/forum/
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