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Exodus to Rehoboam's 5th Year

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Tom Skylark View Drop Down
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    Posted: 31 Dec 2013 at 16:41

Are there 521 years from the Exodus to Judah king Rehoboam's 5th year? Can the 521 years be matched to Egyptian chronology?

 www.raptureforums.com  Apologetics section may have the answers which could open the doors to a new study in ancient history like who was the Exodus pharoah, the pharoah reigning over Egypt when Joshua destroyed Jericho and other exciting imformation. Did Moses die before Akenaton created an Egyptian monotheistic religion?  Did pharoah Seti I slay the Shashu (Moabites) at Beth-Shean right after judge Ehud killed 10,000 Moabites? Who was pharoah Merneptah I refering to when he said "Israel destroyed her seed not" was it Deborah and Barack who preserved Israel's seed-future generations?
 
Who is right? Who is wrong? Can we learn something from this 521 years of ancient history?
To search for the truth which is out there.
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mikebis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikebis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2015 at 16:43
It's a wrong idea to use the Bible for the confirmation of historic events. History needs the time frame of its own. The Exodus is not confirmed by any evidence. All the explanations that I read about are lame. The real Exodus takes place in the second half of the 13th century BCE. A wave of people resettle from the coastal plain of today's Israel to the highlands where the power of Egypt is vertually nonexistant. Being farmers, they build agricultural settlements based on farming and raising small cattle. 
The myth of the Exodus was created in Jerusalem several hundred years later. 
MB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2015 at 22:57
What do you mean "wrong idea"?  Do you mean that one cannot do look for confirmation of historic events in the Bible?  Or do you mean that, one can look for confirmation of historical events in the Bible, but will find the Bible a confusing and confused document for that purpose?

Tom, others have pushed chronological Biblical speculations hard, and while they may have found something that convinced themselves, nobody has ever really found a good position that can be endorsed by a consensus.  On the other hand, I don't see the attempt to investigate it for one's self as a bad idea.  It is beneficial to know _why_ an idea is wrong, rather than just knowing that it is wrong.  I severely doubt that you will discover anything there that others haven't found, but that doesn't mean that you can't learn from following the procedure.  For example, if you want to add up all the "begats" in order to confirm Bishop Ussher's date of creation, that is fine, as long as you understand that you are learning a process and not the reality.  
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truthsetsfree View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2015 at 06:54

The "wrong idea" is wrong. Any genuine historian/scholar should objectively look to see if there is (or is not) matching historical evidence of sources like the bible.

The orthodox establishment and sceptics can not find a match because their dating/chronology is wrong. Instead of seeing that the evidence is that their dating is wrong they instead say the ancient sources are wrong.

There is match for exodus in Egyptian. It is in the 2nd half of the 12th dynasty [ca 1400s bc true chronology] not in the 19th dyn "1200s bc" orthodox chronology (nor in the 18th dyn).
Moreover we have even possibly discovered Moses in Egyptian (pectoral of Sit-hathor-yunet with the glyphs for Moses). Moses might also be the rebel Mesh of amelut-sagaz-Mesh in the Amarna letters (do not mean that he was then but that it may be reference to him after). The inverted nuns in torah may be a signature of Joshua confirming Moses wrote torah?
Shishak (contemp Rehoboam/Jeroboam) was either Ramses 2 or Seti 1 of 19th dynasty. Merneptah may be Zerah. Josephus said 1300 years Menes to Shishak; Herodotus said (1)1340 yrs Menes to Seti. The San tablet of 400 years says 400 years from Hyksos king to 19th dyn king, roughly matching the 480 years from Moses to Solomon. Herodotus said Moeris (12th dyn) was only 900 years before 26th dyn. He sais the chariots were lost in Sesostris (12th dyn (or 19th dyn)) reign. Many other evidences, see my related blog posts (2rbetterthan1.wordpress.com) since i can't rewrite so much here and now sorry.

I have no respect for the "consensus" because they refuse to consider/listen/read and use dirty tactics and have too excessive highest maximum "standards" (only for "new", they don't have to prove their own reigining theories up to their own standards). They trash all traditional/early sources with artificial "textual criticism", and even when evidence is found proving sources and disproving their "textual criticism" they still say their criticism is right and the evidence is wrong.
People can discover things that others haven't (or supposedly haven't) found.

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mikebis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikebis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2015 at 20:03
I mean that the Bible and history exist in two distinct worlds. The links between them are illusions. I can see that you don't like the term "consensus". Never mind. The mainstream of exlorers tend to pass over the Exodus. I'm not that shy and just say that the Biblical version is highly unlikely. You can learn from any experience, that's for sure. However, your attitude to the legend is different from your approach to reality. 
I am not sure that I can cite my own article published on an online site. Maybe it's a good idea just to outline its main ideas. Some other time. 
MB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2015 at 07:03

They are not distinct worlds. It is not illusion or legend versus reality/history. You are israeli are you? and you don't believe your own ancestors or Moses? There are plenty of evidences that biblical events are true historical events. They found the chariots parts in the gulf of Aqaba near Nuweiba (though people claim they are fake). We found Moses in picture and glyphs. Sure some details &/or attitude/approach of ours could be wrong, but it doesn't mean everything or everyone is wrong, and the truth is being found by someone. It is always the same question i come back to: people never seem to accept any evidence/proof no matter how quality or quantity, what will it take for people to accept something as proven? It seems people will only accept 99% quantity and quality. You can pm me any link to any article, or surely the forum is not so mean to not allow to post links to resources.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2015 at 04:43
I seem to have read somewhere that a myth is a truth that did not happen.
Some people get worked up about that it did not happen.
Others get worked up about that it is (a) Truth.

Let me add that saying a myth "did not happen" is really too definite.  There is usually some "thing" "back there" that provides a kernel for the telling, but what that is, is quite obscure.  That is where the myth is coming from.  Where it is going is, today, bigger than life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2015 at 01:06
If the God of the bible is true then the bible is not just like other "myths" with only some truth. More and more evidence has been and is being and will be found that it is true to every detail. The only thing that matters is actual historical details/matches/evidences, not scholars/academics/sceptics criticisng/philosophising/theorising/assuming/asserting. No one has proven it is "myth". I only "get worked up" when people refuse to see/admit stark evidences/proofs/discoveries we have found.
Other sources which orthodox academics also are too critical of such as bible, Herodotus, "Nennius", Atlantis Account have also been found to have alot more truth than claimed.

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franciscosan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2015 at 22:51
I am not sure what evidence you are talking about.  But I am sure you can enlighten us.

I am not sure you understand what a myth is.  But Adam, Noah, Moses, Elijah, Jesus, Paul are larger than life figures.  Saying that Moses or Jesus "existed" is a little  anticlimatic, isn't it.  I mean, is that what you got out of the Bible, that Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, "existed?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2015 at 16:42
Sorry but i don't have anymore time or the situation & condition to dispute all this as i have other more important things i need/want to do.

Maybe i do maybe i don't understand what a myth is. I have been studying mythology, and the bible since i was a teenager and have seen alot of interconnections between all mythologies (and also with the bible). I have also seen alot of evidence that the bible is different and true at least as far back as Joseph or Abraham. I have also found other sources considered "myth"/"unreliable/suspect" somewhat or all true (like the Atlantis Account, "Nennius", Herodotus).

Joseph and Moses and Jesus were real & just like the biblical text states.
See my blogs and various forum posts for more info on some evidences:
2rbetterthan1.wordpress.com
senatorspark.wordpress.com
seventynations.wordpress.com (dud)
headnheart.blogspot.com (old)
historum.com/blogs/rob+banks/
lifetradition.webs.com
Arthur-Robin in allempires.
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/21830-table-of-70-nations-gen-10/
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?179319-Indo-European-deities-origins
(If by some chance i am not allowed to post the links then moderator please tell me to edit it out or edit it out yourself, please don't ban me.)
Some of my stuff may be wrong, but it doesn't mean everything or everyone is wrong.

I thought people and this thread/topic title/headline were discussing the historical angle of bible not the relgious/practical angle re "all that/what got out of it".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikebis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2015 at 15:08
Actually, I wrote an article based on my own research about the real events of the Exodus but I am not sure that I can give links here as the coordinator may interpret this as commercial adverisement. I can open a new thread where I will discuss what I have learned. I can assure you that I began my research in order to find even the tiniest evidence but I found something else which in my view is even more fascinating than the story of the Exodus. 
As an Israeli English-speaking author, I would like to keep my reputation as an independent researcher rather than join any group with a controversial agenda. 
MB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikebis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2015 at 15:12
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I seem to have read somewhere that a myth is a truth that did not happen.
Some people get worked up about that it did not happen.
Others get worked up about that it is (a) Truth.

Let me add that saying a myth "did not happen" is really too definite.  There is usually some "thing" "back there" that provides a kernel for the telling, but what that is, is quite obscure.  That is where the myth is coming from.  Where it is going is, today, bigger than life.
Bigger than life, exactly. My specialty, however, is to research the historical evidence, the background of the myth, and not how various groups reacted to its energence. 
MB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikebis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2015 at 15:18
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I am not sure what evidence you are talking about.  But I am sure you can enlighten us.

I am not sure you understand what a myth is.  But Adam, Noah, Moses, Elijah, Jesus, Paul are larger than life figures.  Saying that Moses or Jesus "existed" is a little  anticlimatic, isn't it.  I mean, is that what you got out of the Bible, that Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, "existed?"
The New Testament presents Jesus as a real person. The Council of Nicae, 325 BCE, confirms his human status. In my view, the life of Jesus can be explored according to the evidence, though this is not my specialty. 
I can certainly "enlighten" you about the Exodus. I am going to open a new thread about my research, and I invite you to participate. 
MB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikebis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2015 at 15:22
Originally posted by truthsetsfree truthsetsfree wrote:

Sorry but i don't have anymore time or the situation & condition to dispute all this as i have other more important things i need/want to do.

Maybe i do maybe i don't understand what a myth is. I have been studying mythology, and the bible since i was a teenager and have seen alot of interconnections between all mythologies (and also with the bible). I have also seen alot of evidence that the bible is different and true at least as far back as Joseph or Abraham. I have also found other sources considered "myth"/"unreliable/suspect" somewhat or all true (like the Atlantis Account, "Nennius", Herodotus).

Joseph and Moses and Jesus were real & just like the biblical text states.
See my blogs and various forum posts for more info on some evidences:
2rbetterthan1.wordpress.com
senatorspark.wordpress.com
seventynations.wordpress.com (dud)
headnheart.blogspot.com (old)
historum.com/blogs/rob+banks/
lifetradition.webs.com
Arthur-Robin in allempires.
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/21830-table-of-70-nations-gen-10/
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?179319-Indo-European-deities-origins
(If by some chance i am not allowed to post the links then moderator please tell me to edit it out or edit it out yourself, please don't ban me.)
Some of my stuff may be wrong, but it doesn't mean everything or everyone is wrong.

I thought people and this thread/topic title/headline were discussing the historical angle of bible not the relgious/practical angle re "all that/what got out of it".

This is the essence of my proposal. I am going to open a new thread to discuss the historical angle of the Bible. I will start with my research on Exodus and will try to present the true story. 
MB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2015 at 00:37
Sound like a plan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2015 at 05:12
I wouldn't say it was not interesting at all but the tribal traditions concerning the leaders of an obscure people in an insignificant part of the middle east doesn't seem like it would be the highest priority for research?  Considering the impact that Abrahamic religions have had on the world and how little the events described in their religious texts directly effected history it seems reasonable to entirely dissociable the personal history from the religious texts.  

Does the historical accuracy really matter that much?  Since most of the believers in Abrahamic religions rely on faith to underpin their religious convictions the historical validity of the stories in there text seems far less important than the the text themselves.  It is fairly easy to develop physical evidence as opposed to arguing against a divine inspiration.  Proving that the events described in the texts are not historically accurate does little to alter the believers dynamic.

I think the disassociation principle even works when you ask the questions how the culture in palestine influenced the Philosophy of Jesus or how the culture of India effected the philosophy of Buddha.  The details even in the texts of the lives of these individuals is so sketchy that whatever little historical information you will find is unlikely to provide many clues.  In the case of Jesus there is practically no historical data to digest if any.  It would be nice to know their class, financial, educational, family histories but it is fairly apparent that most of that information has been developed as far as it can be.  For earlier figures like Moses for example their history seems particularly unimportant.  The events in the lives of the old testament figures seem primarily to server the purpose of reinforcing tribal traditions of grandeur totally out of proportion to their actual historical impact.

What we really want to know is how the general culture of the biblical figures influenced their philosophy. The historically significant of the philosophy behind Abrahamic religions is self evident.  The philosophy however is contained entirely in the texts and traditions of the various religions not specific historical events that are of no particular significance other than as a backdrop to develop a story line that illustrates a theological point.          

  

  


Edited by wolfhnd - 24 Oct 2015 at 05:14
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