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Fate of the Ark of the Convenant...

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    Posted: 09 Jan 2014 at 16:43
Allegedly revealed in Hebrew Texts

However, they go on to say this

Quote
But unlike the Indiana Jones movie "Raiders of the Lost Ark," the text leaves the exact location of the Ark unclear and states that it, and the other treasures, "shall not be revealed until the day of the coming of the Messiah son of David …" putting it out of reach of any would-be treasure seeker.


So, not very revealing, huh?

However, the article does go on to talk of treasure "not" from Solomon's temple:

Quote
The treatise describes the treasures in an imaginative way. One part refers to "seventy-seven tables of gold, and their gold was from the walls of the Garden of Eden that was revealed to Solomon, and they radiated like the radiance of the sun and moon, which radiate at the height of the world."


Just something to talk about on a slow news day or are we a little step closer to find the long lost treasures?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2014 at 19:13
Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

Allegedly revealed in Hebrew Texts

However, they go on to say this

Quote
But unlike the Indiana Jones movie "Raiders of the Lost Ark," the text leaves the exact location of the Ark unclear and states that it, and the other treasures, "shall not be revealed until the day of the coming of the Messiah son of David …" putting it out of reach of any would-be treasure seeker.


So, not very revealing, huh?

However, the article does go on to talk of treasure "not" from Solomon's temple:

Quote
The treatise describes the treasures in an imaginative way. One part refers to "seventy-seven tables of gold, and their gold was from the walls of the Garden of Eden that was revealed to Solomon, and they radiated like the radiance of the sun and moon, which radiate at the height of the world."


Just something to talk about on a slow news day or are we a little step closer to find the long lost treasures?
 
 
Quite interesting. Although I'm not sure i'm concerned with it as' allegedly' or not.
 
Seems pretty straightforward according to the scholar cited in your source. Either believe in the accuracy or not. More interesting, unless I missed it; is when the original was written (not to be confused with the 'copper scroll'). Varying copys occur till quite recently according to the source. But whether it was intended allegorically or other, who can guess. I'd prefer more info on the provenance of the original not to mention it's location.
 
Until that, all other arguements on it's believability and accuracy or even fallaciouness remain secondary. If not immaterial. Thanks for the link. Live Science is a good one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2014 at 12:16
The Ethiopian people claim that the Ark of the Covenant has been in their possession ever since it was stolen from King Solomon by his son Menelik.

Menelik is supposedly the son of King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba.

Although he was Solomons son, he lived with his mother until adulthood, and it was then that he travelled to see his father, and stole the Ark.

The Ethiopian claim has never been verified as no one is permitted to actually see the Ark, except the Priest who is locked up with it until he dies, and is then replaced with another.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2014 at 20:57
Watched a TV program last night, called "Cities of the Underworld".
 
Ostensibly, it's a doco about long forgotten (?) underground man made tunnel systems, quarries, crypts and so on.
 
In last nights program, it was claimed that the Ark of the Covenant was hidden in a subterranean tunnel by Godfrey of Bouillon who obtained it during the First Crusade.
 
Has anyone else heard this story?
 
Can you enlighten me on the name of the cave complex?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2014 at 22:21
There is a persistent rumour that the Ark was hidden in a chamber underneath the Temple of the Rock in Jerusalem. One priest tried to excavate covertly to find it but the moslems found out and stopped him. There is in actuality a whole series of caves hollowed out in times gone by beneath that site, mostly explored, but there is no evidence as far as I know that hidden treasures are still down there - after all, the shops selling antiquities in that area are full of stock and the middle east, as in any other region of the world where poverty drives initiative, are prone to looting.

Edited by caldrail - 09 Mar 2014 at 22:22
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2014 at 00:23
The books of lamemtation reports the destruction of the temple. There is no word about the ark of the convenant. It is very likely, that it was destroyed with the temple or destroyed to take the gold. The book of Lamentations was written before 530. Stories from the Maccabeans are much younger, more than 400-450 years. They report, that the ark was saved and hidden in a secret place. Did the people before know this? No, it is much more likely, that these new stories are invented, like barbarossa didn't die, but waits in a hill to come back or Artus didn't die, but waits in Avalon to come back or all those fictional stories.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2014 at 20:36
Originally posted by beorna beorna wrote:

The books of lamemtation reports the destruction of the temple. There is no word about the ark of the convenant. It is very likely, that it was destroyed with the temple or destroyed to take the gold. The book of Lamentations was written before 530. Stories from the Maccabeans are much younger, more than 400-450 years. They report, that the ark was saved and hidden in a secret place. Did the people before know this? No, it is much more likely, that these new stories are invented, like barbarossa didn't die, but waits in a hill to come back or Artus didn't die, but waits in Avalon to come back or all those fictional stories.
1. The castle I was thinking of was the Castle Bouillion in Belgium, owned by Godfrey de Bouillion.
2. Could that have been the "secret place" or could it be the Church in Labigella, Ethiopia?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2014 at 22:35
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

1. The castle I was thinking of was the Castle Bouillion in Belgium, owned by Godfrey de Bouillion.
2. Could that have been the "secret place" or could it be the Church in Labigella, Ethiopia?
 

I am not aware about such myth. But Godfrey lived 1600 years after the defeat of Juda and the destruction of the temple. The temple was destroyed, the ark stolen or destroyed or first stolen and then destroyed. Nobody knew till the first century BC that it survived and was hidden and even then nobody had even seen the ark again. But another 1000 years later Godfrey was able to find it? hard to believe. All those tales about a saved and hidden ark are with great probability nothing else than fiction and wishful-thinking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2014 at 11:50
beorna:
No argument from me there.
 
Ethiopia claims to have the Ark, so why not prove it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2014 at 17:49
I don't think, that they will allow research :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2014 at 23:15
The temple site in Ethiopia that holds the supposed Ark of the Covenant is off limits. Partly because of legends concerning the danger of these artifacts, partly because of religious sanctity, but probably also I suspect because they daren't risk finding out that their artifacts might not be what they assume they are.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2014 at 00:40
Originally posted by beorna beorna wrote:

I don't think, that they will allow research :)
 
Caldrail & beorna:
I've been closely involved with the local Ethiopian community now for the past ten years or so and I've very carefully broached this subject on occasions.
 
The Ethiopians don't care what the rest of the world thinks.
 
The Church of Our Lady Mary of Zion  is where the Ark is housed securely, and is watched over by a single monk for the extent of his lifetime. Before he dies, he names a successor monk to replace him when he dies.
 
The Ark is said to be securely stored due to its mystic powers and the fact that the previous building in which it was housed was being destroyed by heat emanating from the Ark (which is one of the alleged phenomena of the Ark).
 
The stories of it having been stolen by Menelik from his father King Solomon have a certain ring of truth, but that's where it seems to end.
 
The Ethiopian tome entitled The Kebra Nagast, or Book of Kings contains the account of the Arks theft.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2014 at 01:58
It is interesting,that the legend of makeda and her son menelik is reported from a source of the 14th (!) century. menelik visited his father salomo and returned to Ethiopia with a lot of israelian people. By another claim from the 9th century CE, the Ethiopian jews are the people of the "missing tribe of Dan". Historical evidence that is temporarily is missing. What is known is, that the kings of Aksum were not jewish, but worshiped a polytheistic religion. Not before the 4th century CE, there was a christian reign in Ethiopia. The main stream view today is, that the beta israel today is a christian sect, that returned to the jewish traditions much later. DNA research BTW has shown, that jewish Ethiopians are not different to the non-jewish Ethiopians.

So we have stories from the 6th century BC, which suggest, that the ark is lost. But we shall trust stories from the 1st century BC which claim it is hidden and stories from the 9th and 14th century CE, which combine that, with historical unproven and even genetically disproven tales about a jewish migration into Ethiopia?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2014 at 12:45

beorna wrote......" with historical unproven and even genetically disproven tales about a jewish migration into Ethiopia?"

So who were the Jews who were repatriated to Israel, the people who were found to be still practising a very early Jewish ceremony which the rest of the world had almost forgotten?
 
Maybe the Jewish bloodline had died out over the millennia, but that didn't stop Israel from accepting them.
As for sources reporting the loss of the Ark, don't you think it would be in the Catholic Church interests to say that the Ark is lost rather than admit that they can't get their hands on it? History is full of examples where to deny the existence of something is to decry the fact that it could be used against you.


Edited by toyomotor - 12 Mar 2014 at 12:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2014 at 22:08
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

beorna wrote......" with historical unproven and even genetically disproven tales about a jewish migration into Ethiopia?"

So who were the Jews who were repatriated to Israel, the people who were found to be still practising a very early Jewish ceremony which the rest of the world had almost forgotten?
 
Maybe the Jewish bloodline had died out over the millennia, but that didn't stop Israel from accepting them.
As for sources reporting the loss of the Ark, don't you think it would be in the Catholic Church interests to say that the Ark is lost rather than admit that they can't get their hands on it? History is full of examples where to deny the existence of something is to decry the fact that it could be used against you.

As I said, there are different stories about the ark existing, not only in Ethiopia. In Ethiopia we have two stories, the first says menelik had stolen the original ark from jerusalem and in jerusalem remained only a copy. The other says it was brought to Ethiopia after the destruction of the temple in jerusalem. The ark in Aksum was described by an Armenian who was able to visit it in 1868 and there are as well procession in which the veiled ark is shown. Both don't match with the description of the Jerusalem ark.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2014 at 22:45
beorna:
The Ethiopian history is that of Menelik, son of King Solomon stealing the Ark.
 
I haven't read any credible account to the contrary.
 
Whether or not there were Jews in Ethiopia is completely irrelevant.
 
Please provide your source for the Armenian viewing the Ark in 1868, as this is contrary to Ethiopian accounts of the Ark being kept in strict security.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2014 at 06:15
Merten, kai, Das äthiopisch-orthodoxe Christentum. Studien zur orientalischen Kirchengeschichte, Berlin 2012, p.135;
Heyer, Kirche Äthiopiens, p.46f;
Hammerschmidt, Äthiopien, p.96;
Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, p.96.
Ermias kebede Wolde-Jesus, Ethiopia, p. 51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2014 at 16:05
Originally posted by beorna beorna wrote:

Merten, kai, Das äthiopisch-orthodoxe Christentum. Studien zur orientalischen Kirchengeschichte, Berlin 2012, p.135;
Heyer, Kirche Äthiopiens, p.46f;
Hammerschmidt, Äthiopien, p.96;
Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, p.96.
Ermias kebede Wolde-Jesus, Ethiopia, p. 51
 
So, if the descriptions of the Ark vary, can we assume, for example, what he was shown was the real Ark?
 
Or do we disbelieve the original description as exaggeration?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2014 at 00:40
The ark is described by jewish texts. Of course they all can be exaggerations. maybe the ark is invented at all. Who knows. Then maybe menelik has stolen an invention.

Serious. One can believe the old jewish textes or not. I see no reason, why I should believe ethiopian texts more than the old jewish ones.

I summarize it for you:
-jewish texts mention the ark and describe it. (before 530 BC)
-jewish texts speak of the destruction of the temple. the ark is lost. (before 530)
-younger jewish texts mention that the ark was saved and hidden (ca. 1 century BC)
-pagan ethiopia (before the 4th century CE)
-christian ethiopia (after 4th century CE)
-ethiopian texts mention the ark and the theft (13th century CE). During this era, untill the 17th century, a jewish reign in Ethiopia is verified.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2014 at 10:35
Originally posted by beorna beorna wrote:

The ark is described by jewish texts. Of course they all can be exaggerations. maybe the ark is invented at all. Who knows. Then maybe menelik has stolen an invention.

Serious. One can believe the old jewish textes or not. I see no reason, why I should believe ethiopian texts more than the old jewish ones.
 
I agree with you.

I summarize it for you:
-jewish texts mention the ark and describe it. (before 530 BC)
-jewish texts speak of the destruction of the temple. the ark is lost. (before 530)
-younger jewish texts mention that the ark was saved and hidden (ca. 1 century BC)
-pagan ethiopia (before the 4th century CE)
-christian ethiopia (after 4th century CE)
-ethiopian texts mention the ark and the theft (13th century CE). During this era, untill the 17th century, a jewish reign in Ethiopia is verified.
 
I don't dispute what you say here, I'm only providing such information as I have on the subject, admittedly from an Ethiopian perspective.
 
Personally, I'd like to believe that the Ark still exists, and that perhaps it is in Ethiopia, but I don't really know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2014 at 18:16
Ethiopians can claim a lot, that doesn't make it. But to be honest, such claims are not different to claims from other regions, like europe. Just see the shroud of Turin, the holy lance, some relic which include splitters from the cross of Jesus, bones of holy men etc. The most is fake and invention, too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2014 at 02:54
beorna:
I can't argue with that.
 
As I've said before, if they have it, why not prove it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2014 at 18:29
Pssssssssssst! I heard a rumour that it could be in Chile.  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2014 at 23:00
nah, that's just a rumour put out by the top men who run a huge dark warehouse near Washington.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2014 at 18:42
Originally posted by caldrail caldrail wrote:

nah, that's just a rumour put out by the top men who run a huge dark warehouse near Washington.
 
Would that be in Langley, Virginia?
 
I replied to your post last week, but it disappeared.
 
Are you still there?
 
Hope you haven't been rendered.   LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2014 at 04:17
The ark is not in Chile. It is in the Bible. I doubt it will ever get out from those pages into reality.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2014 at 09:39
The Ark is exactly where it should be. No more no less.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2014 at 17:07
Originally posted by Arlington Arlington wrote:

The Ark is exactly where it should be. No more no less.
 
Mate, where do you suggest that is?
 
Do you believe that it ever existed?
 
I have some severe doubts when you read all about the so called Mystical Powers the Ark supposedly has/had.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2014 at 02:11
1.Under the Mosque.

2.Yes.

3. Stranger things than that have been ascribed powers Toyo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2014 at 13:00
Originally posted by Arlington Arlington wrote:

 
1.Under the Mosque.

2.Yes.

3. Stranger things than that have been ascribed powers Toyo.
 
1. I thought that the tunnels under the Dome of The Rock had been completely explored, looking for the Templar Treasure. Would it not have been found?
 
2. Why do you believe that it existed? Could it not have been pure myth?
 
3. I can't argue with that.
 
 
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