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Favourite ancient city?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2011 at 03:31
I just now that to build a city you must destroy nature. The biggest the city, the largest the fraction of nature that is destroyed. And, of course, biodiversity goes down.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2011 at 01:47
Hardly anyone argues against the notion that big cities impact the environment.
 
And it is quite interesting to learn about how much they impacted and how far reaching their impact was. Also it is interesting to learn and compare how much food, wood and other resources that where consumed in these cities.


Edited by Carcharodon - 17 Feb 2011 at 02:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2011 at 05:55
If cities were failures they wouldn't be big. People aren't attracted to live in cities because life is worse there. If it was you'd see migration to the country.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2011 at 08:20
Indeed. Migration is usually from the countryside to the cities, and not the other way around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2011 at 21:21
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

If cities were failures they wouldn't be big. People aren't attracted to live in cities because life is worse there. If it was you'd see migration to the country.
 
You simplify things. People do not always get better circumstances in cities. They may many times believe that but reality can be different.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2011 at 22:56
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

If cities were failures they wouldn't be big. People aren't attracted to live in cities because life is worse there. If it was you'd see migration to the country.
 
You simplify things. People do not always get better circumstances in cities. They may many times believe that but reality can be different.


No he is not simplifying things.

People moves where they live better.
And people moved historically, during thousand of years, from the countryside to cities, and not the other way around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2011 at 23:10
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


No he is not simplifying things.

People moves where they live better.
And people moved historically, during thousand of years, from the countryside to cities, and not the other way around.
 
Actually, many people end up in slums, in criminality, in prostitution, life in the cities do not always turn out as expected, especially not in third world countries. Many people that are driven from their rural homes (among other things because their lands is exproriated do not always get it better than they would have been if they could have kept their lands.
Today more and more politicians, experts and representats for relief organisations start to see this and try counteract the trend of moving into cities.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2011 at 23:21
And why the move to slums? Simply because, even with all the problems they have, they live better there than before, they have more opportunities, and have more material goods!
This is the same why immigrants go from the third world to the industrialized countries, to end cleanning bathrooms and living in very dangerous and depriment guettos, consumming drugs.
It is the same thing. People moves where they believe there are better opportunities, and nobody forces them to do it.


Edited by pinguin - 17 Feb 2011 at 23:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2011 at 23:27
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

And why the move to slums? Simply because, even with all the problems they have, they live better there than before!
This is the same why immigrants go from the third world to the industrialized countries, to end cleanning bathrooms and living in very dangerous and depriment guettos.
It is the same thing. People moves where they believe there are better opportunities, and nobody forces them to do it.
 
There are expections to live better, which is not met. Also when there are expropriations of the land of rural population they must go somewhere. But that do not mean they live a better life in the slum than they did before their land was expropriated. This is actually an increasing trend that corrupt third world governments are selling out (or leasing out) land (and natural resources) to foreign companies (this practice even led to revolt im Madagaskar), which forces the people living there to move away,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2011 at 23:40
I repeat for the nth time I am not in favor of robbing Indigenous land, so please, don't put that Straw Man in your arguments.

Indigenous people, and peasants in general, move to the cities because they have a reproductive rate higher than the rest of the population. New generations get bored with the old jungle lifestyle and want to get cars, houses and pretty girls in the cities. That's why they move.

The same happened in Sweden, when so many immigrants arrive there to have an easy living earning a welfare check and cleaning swedish washrooms. They never imagine they were going to end in the poorest and more violent neighbourhoods of sweden, where crack and heroin is consume in the streets.

People has expectation that doesn't fit reality, but some people actually progress through that process.











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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2011 at 23:52
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

  I repeat for the nth time I am not in favor of robbing Indigenous land, so please, don't put that Straw Man in your arguments.
 
Well, the thing is that the agricultural, or recource politic of a country can lead to small farmers and other locals loosing their land so they have to move. This problem is increasing in many countries, for example in Ethiopia, where land is leased out to Indian and other companies and the small scale farmers (who not even are considered owners of the land they use) are forced to move (some get jobs for the companies that use their land, but not all).
This problem will increase when European, Indian, Chinese, Korean (as in Madagascar), Japanese and American companies will lease or buy more and more land in poorer countries (in Africa, in Latin America, in southeast Asia, in Eastern Europe) to meet increasing demands of food and other resources. Someone always have to move.
 
But there are ofcourse other reasons to move to cities too. One can not simplify.

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

The same happened in Sweden, when so many immigrants arrive there to have an easy living earning a welfare check and cleaning swedish washrooms. They never imagine they were going to end in the poorest and more violent neighbourhoods of sweden, where crack and heroin is consume in the streets.
 
Many immigrants come to Sweden as refugees from violence, war and opression. They had not so much alternative than to go.


Edited by Carcharodon - 17 Feb 2011 at 23:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2011 at 00:03
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Well, the thing is that the agricultural, or recource politic of a country can lead to small farmers and other locals loosing their land so they have to move. This problem is increasing in many countries, for example in Ethiopia, where land is leased out to Indian and other companies and the small scale farmers (who not even are considered owners of the land they use) are forced to move (some get jobs for the companies that use their land, but not all).
This problem will increase when European, Indian, Chinese, Korean (as in Madagascar), Japanese and American companies will lease or buy more and more land in poorer countries (in Africa, in Latin America, in southeast Asia, in Eastern Europe) to meet increasing demands of food and other resources. Someone always have to move.


Indeed. Poor countries can be controlled by new versions of the United Fruit and Chiquita companies, to get converted in Banana Republics.
By why do you include "Latin America" in the same level than Madagascar and Africa? Don't you know countries like Chile participate in join agricultural investments in China? Confused and that we invest more in Latin America than China in Africa? Do you know the scale of investment of Brazil in the region? and that several Latin American companies have branches and subsidiaries in the U.S.?

Do you ignore the richest man in the world is Mexican? Confused

 
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by pinguin`The same happened in Sweden, when so many immigrants arrive there to have an easy living earning a welfare check and cleaning swedish washrooms. They never imagine they were going to end in the poorest and more violent neighbourhoods of sweden, where crack and heroin is consume in the streets.</td></tr></table></div>
<div> </div>
<div>Many immigrants come to Sweden as refugees from violence, war and opression. They had not so much alternative than to go.</div>[/QUOTE pinguin`The same happened in Sweden, when so many immigrants arrive there to have an easy living earning a welfare check and cleaning swedish washrooms. They never imagine they were going to end in the poorest and more violent neighbourhoods of sweden, where crack and heroin is consume in the streets.
 
Many immigrants come to Sweden as refugees from violence, war and opression. They had not so much alternative than to go.
[/QUOTE wrote:



But you get the idea.


But you get the idea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2011 at 01:27
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

By why do you include "Latin America" in the same level than Madagascar and Africa? Don't you know countries like Chile participate in join agricultural investments in China? Confused and that we invest more in Latin America than China in Africa? Do you know the scale of investment of Brazil in the region? and that several Latin American companies have branches and subsidiaries in the U.S.?
 
Well, in a documentary on TV about this new boom for land they mentioned for example Brazil, which is indeed in Latin America. Sometimes some countries invest in foreign places while at the same time other countries invest in them.


 


Edited by Carcharodon - 18 Feb 2011 at 01:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2011 at 01:54
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

...Well, in a documentary on TV about this new boom for land they mentioned for example Brazil, which is indeed in Latin America. Sometimes some countries invest in foreign places while at the same time other countries invest in them.


You must get better sources of information.
China is not going to fool around in Brazil as it is doing in Africa.
Foreign investment in large scale is the engine of development in Latin America, but there are many regulations also. If Chinese want to exploit local people like they do in China or Africa, they will be expelled with a kick on the back. LOL
Don't forget Chinese are investing in Europe and the U.S. as well. I don't doubt that by now they have bough many things in your country, like Volvo LOL

http://www.euronews.net/2010/03/28/chinese-carmaker-agrees-to-buy-sweden-s-volvo/


Edited by pinguin - 18 Feb 2011 at 01:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2011 at 02:01
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


You must get better sources of information.
China is not going to fool around in Brazil as it is doing in Africa.
 
Perhaps not in the same way, but foreign companies indeed invest in Brazil and other Latin American countries.
 
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


Foreign investment in large scale is the engine of development in Latin America, but there are many regulations also. If Chinese want to exploit local people like they do in China or Africa, they will be expelled with a kick on the back. LOL
Don't forget Chinese are investing in Europe and the U.S. as well. I don't doubt that by now they have bough many things in your country, like Volvo LOL

http://www.euronews.net/2010/03/28/chinese-carmaker-agrees-to-buy-sweden-s-volvo/
 
Yes, China seem to ivest everywhere these days. The founders of Volvo would have been surprised if they knew that their company one day should have chinese owners.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2011 at 02:08
And Brazil invest in China, the U.S. and Latin America, so what.

And yes, China bought Volvo, and many other European industries as well. So now, you can say China is conquering Europe like it is doing in Africa, isn't?





Edited by pinguin - 18 Feb 2011 at 02:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2011 at 02:33
Yes, perhaps it is time to apply for chinese citizenship Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2011 at 07:59
My favorite city is "L'Isle!, and it many spelling variants!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2011 at 16:59
Talking about the favorite ancient city, mine should be Athens. Greece is always my dream.
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