| FORUM | ARCHIVE |                    | TOTAL QUIZ RESULT |


  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Finest Defense?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Welcome stranger, click here to read about some of the great benefits of registering for a free account with us and joining us in our global online community.


Finest Defense?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
rider View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Location: Norwich, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 5544
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Finest Defense?
    Posted: 03 Aug 2009 at 21:44
So, we all know that defense is easier than the offense; especially for the commanding staff.
 
What have been the finest defensive operations that you can think of and who were in charge of them?
 
Note the following:
  • must be defense
  • did not have to succeed
I'd personally put Kuribayashi Tadamichi and his Iwo Jima up there, but that's only because I like 'Letters from Iwo Jima'. Smile Still, he seems to have made for an impressive stand (a last stand if there's ever been one).
 
Oh, and I do expect to see Leonidas and his poor three hundred on this, although that's not really what I meant.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
pikeshot1600 View Drop Down
King
King


Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 5076
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2009 at 22:48
Originally posted by rider rider wrote:

So, we all know that defense is easier than the offense; especially for the commanding staff.
 
What have been the finest defensive operations that you can think of and who were in charge of them?
 
Note the following:
  • must be defense
  • did not have to succeed
I'd personally put Kuribayashi Tadamichi and his Iwo Jima up there, but that's only because I like 'Letters from Iwo Jima'. Smile Still, he seems to have made for an impressive stand (a last stand if there's ever been one).
 
Oh, and I do expect to see Leonidas and his poor three hundred on this, although that's not really what I meant.
 
Well, "finest defense" looks like finest last stand, but I would list the Venetian defense of Candia on Crete (1648-1669) as one, and the successful defense of Leningrad as another.
 
In the ACW, Gettysburg was a Union defensive battle that used terrain, interior lines and superior numbers to exhaust the attacker.
 
There must be many others.
 
   
Back to Top
Knights View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 4089
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2009 at 23:47
A few ones in particular strike me as ultra-fine.

- Sieges of Rhodes (Hospitallers vs. Ottomans)
- Siege of Malta (Hospitallers vs. Ottomans)
- Sieges of Kruge (League of Lezhe vs. Ottomans)
- Siege of Rome (Byzantines vs. Ostrogoths)
- Siege of Tyre (Tyrians vs. Macedonians)

So many more...I'm just pointing these ones out as a collective effort rather than to highlight certain staff who took part in the defense coordination.


Edited by Knights - 04 Aug 2009 at 01:40
Back to Top
Parnell View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Location: Barcelona
Status: Offline
Points: 3227
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2009 at 23:54
One engagement in the Irish War of Independence springs to mind. At Crossbarry a column led by West Cork IRA leader Tom Barry was entrapped in a pincer movement by British forces more than 15 times greater than their own number. (We are talking abnormally small numbers here, Barry only had 100 fighters but it was one of the largest engagements in the war - a war of small scale engagements) They fought their way back as they retreated and melted into the mountains - Barry's column lost a couple of men, British losses were roughly 20 +

I know this does not even remotely, even on the most generous level, compare with WWII engagements such as Leningrad, but in the context of a Guerrila conflict it is quite remarkable. The fact that Barry and his column escaped relatively unscathed from a massive British engagement which had been elaborately planned for months is quite bizarre.
http://xkcd.com/15/



Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. ~George Bernard Shaw
Back to Top
Panther View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar
Editorial Staff

Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 4577
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2009 at 00:54
I'm rather biased to the defense of the Alamo for some odd reason... hmmmm... Big smile Let's see, here is some right off the top of my head:

- The Alamo, of course. The primary commanders  of the Texans were Lieutenant Col. William Travis and Col. James Bowie in command of 180 - 250 Texans. Opposing them were about 2,500 Mexicans commanded by Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna.

- The British defense of Rorke's drift was commanded by Lieutenant John Chard (immediately afterward promoted to Captain) and Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead (Himself promoted afterward as well), in command of 139 British soldiers. Against them were 4,000-5,000 fierce Zulu warriors Commanded by Dabulamanzi kaMpande

- I have to take my hat off in deep respect to Mexico's Boy heroes. Six military cadets who died fighting against US forces in the Battle of Chapultepec. Rather then fall back as commanded by their officers, they chose too resist until they were killed in battle.

- And shoot... let's face it, aside form the atrocities, most of the Japanese defensive land action after midway, were of the finest quality. An ancient Spartan commander would have been proud and right at home amongst this type of quality troops. Didn't the last Japanese soldier surrender in the 70's or the 80's? Had there been more reports since then?

Aside from the Russian Defense of Leningrad in World War 2, i have to research Russian defensive stands of that era due to the enormity of what they were faced with at that time, which leads me too suspect there to be so many numerous accounts heard and unheard of... (and what with my poor memory and all)! Perhaps even to the Russians themselves don't know the full story of everything that had happened in the opening years of the war for them?


Edited by Panther - 04 Aug 2009 at 00:55
Back to Top
DukeC View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Location: Alberta, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1980
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2009 at 03:47
Anthony McAuliffe commanding the 101 Airborne Division, CCB of the 10th Armored Div the 705 Tank Destroyer Battalion and other detached units at Bastogne against superior German forces. The seige lasted a week and the Americans were chronically short of food, medical supplies, winter clothing and, most importantly, ammunition for most of the battle. American artillery was rationed to a few rounds a day and could only be called on in case of an immenent breakthrough by the Germans.

Edited by DukeC - 04 Aug 2009 at 03:48
we have a blind date with destiny..and it looks like she's ordered the lobster
Back to Top
Al Jassas View Drop Down
King
King


Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5000
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2009 at 06:57
The siege of Acre 1189 to 1191.
 
The sige of Pleven (1877).
 
Sevastopol (both during the Crimea and WWII).
 
Al-Jassas
Back to Top
rider View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Location: Norwich, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 5544
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2009 at 09:14
Originally posted by Knights Knights wrote:

A few ones in particular strike me as ultra-fine.

- Sieges of Rhodes (Hospitallers vs. Ottomans)
- Siege of Malta (Hospitallers vs. Ottomans)
- Sieges of Kruge (League of Lezhe vs. Ottomans)
- Siege of Rome (Byzantines vs. Ostrogoths)
- Siege of Tyre (Tyrians vs. Macedonians)

So many more...I'm just pointing these ones out as a collective effort rather than to highlight certain staff who took part in the defense coordination.
 
Thanks for bringing up Malta. I almost forgot it. Tongue
Back to Top
Akolouthos View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 3542
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2009 at 09:51
Well, I'd have to put in a vote for the defense of Constantinople during Avar/Persian siege toward the end of the last of the Romano-Persian wars.

-Akolouthos
Back to Top
Ahmed The Fighter View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Lion of Babylon

Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Location: Mess 'O Potamia
Status: Offline
Points: 1122
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2009 at 12:08
Siege of Belgrade 1456
Siege of Kőszeg 1532
Great siege of Gibraltar (1779-1783)
"May the eyes of cowards never sleep"
Khalid Bin Walid.
Back to Top
rider View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Location: Norwich, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 5544
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2009 at 21:41
The Siege of Zbaraz deserves a mention as well (although here I'm biased by Sienkiewicz's writings...)
Back to Top
Challenger2 View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 481
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Challenger2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2009 at 06:20
Siege of Acre 1799. Napoleon's first decisive defeat.
Back to Top
Craze_b0i View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 05 Jun 2009
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 210
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Craze_b0i Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2009 at 09:53
Battle of Britain
Pretty much all Lee's defensive battles in ACW.
Defence of Mexico City 1521
Back to Top
Justinian View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
King of Numenor

Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1622
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Justinian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2009 at 21:53
Originally posted by Knights Knights wrote:

Siege of Rome (Byzantines vs. Ostrogoths)


Originally posted by Akolouthos Akolouthos wrote:

Well, I'd have to put in a vote for the defense of Constantinople during Avar/Persian siege toward the end of the last of the Romano-Persian wars.

These two are in my top five.  I'd also mention the second Arab siege of Constantinople for its historical significance. 
"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann

Back to Top
Chookie View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 107
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chookie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2009 at 23:06
The Battle of Britain doesn't fit the requirements. But so what?

I'll suggest the defence of Karelia in 1940 and add the defence of Camaron by the French Foreign Legion in 1863.
Iasdan dan fasalach 's iadsan gairm sith
Back to Top
rider View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Location: Norwich, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 5544
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2009 at 09:23
Ah, yes, Finland. Finland's defense of it's homeland was epic in both situations (Winter War and the Continuation War).
Back to Top
Craze_b0i View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 05 Jun 2009
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 210
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Craze_b0i Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2009 at 11:01
Originally posted by Chookie Chookie wrote:

The Battle of Britain doesn't fit the requirements. But so what?

 
It was a defensive operation. How does it not it the requirements?
Back to Top
Reginmund View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 08 May 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 2659
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2009 at 19:04
The German and Japanese defenses against the Americans and Allies during the final phases of WW2 made the most of their defensive potential and did much to prolong the war beyond expectation.

Another impressive one was the Judean defense of Masada in 72-73.
Sing, goddess, of Achilles' ruinous anger
Which brought ten thousand pains to the Achaeans,
And cast the souls of many stalwart heroes
To Hades, and their bodies to the dogs
And birds of prey
Back to Top
rider View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Location: Norwich, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 5544
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2009 at 19:09
Yeah. That was the one Vespasian destroyed with his hands and teeth, yes?
 
Or was the later rebellion which Hadrianus suffocated on that hilltop?
Back to Top
Reginmund View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 08 May 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 2659
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2009 at 19:12
Vespasian. Hadrian wasn't even a sperm cell at this point. Wink
Sing, goddess, of Achilles' ruinous anger
Which brought ten thousand pains to the Achaeans,
And cast the souls of many stalwart heroes
To Hades, and their bodies to the dogs
And birds of prey
Back to Top
rider View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Location: Norwich, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 5544
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2009 at 19:18
Hadrianus also killed Jews, that's one thing I've always remembered him by. Tongue
 
 
Back to Top
Reginmund View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 08 May 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 2659
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2009 at 19:31
I'd rather remember him for his conscientious government, his grand tour of the Empire, his wall in Britain and his good taste in boys.
Sing, goddess, of Achilles' ruinous anger
Which brought ten thousand pains to the Achaeans,
And cast the souls of many stalwart heroes
To Hades, and their bodies to the dogs
And birds of prey
Back to Top
rider View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Location: Norwich, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 5544
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2009 at 19:35
The grand tour of the empire is something I remember Vespasian by. The fact how he got the Emperorship was shown to me somehow that he rode a damned chariot all the way from the Asia Minor coastline to Rome. And that's an image I can relate to...
Back to Top
SPQR View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 917
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SPQR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2009 at 19:48
omg can't beleive no one has mentioned Thermopylae?!?!?! I figured someone did so I didn't bother to post. They made a hollywood style movie about it lol! 300 Spartans a Massive Persian army (my book says 60-70,000) seems more logical than one million but still impressive odds.

One question though I seem to have forgot who all participated like what city-states helped defend the bottleneck and how many?

can anyone elaborate.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind.

- Albert Einstein
Back to Top
rider View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Location: Norwich, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 5544
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2009 at 21:01
I think there were about 4,000 Thebans as well.
Back to Top
SPQR View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 917
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SPQR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2009 at 20:34
There were Thespians I think, but the ran off to protect their village.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind.

- Albert Einstein
Back to Top
fence View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 31 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fence Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2011 at 02:10

Question concerns the finest defense. I would say native Chief Lempira of the Lenca tribe. He managed to unite different native tribes who sometimes did not get along against the invading Spaniards in the early 1500's in what is today Honduras.

Quote During the Spanish invasion in 1537, the Lenca organized a decade-long war of resistance. Led by Lempira, a warrior chief, the Lenca fought until his assassination. Lempira is recognized as a hero; his name was given to the national currency of Honduras.

He managed to use high rocky areas with hardly any access has fortresses against the Spaniards.

From another source

Quote The Lenca chief, Lempira, a warrior of great renown, managed to unify more than two hundred Indian tribes that had been ancient rivals in order to offer an organized resistance against penetration by the Spanish conquerors. In the village of Etempica he announced his plans to expel the Spaniards and gave instructions to all his allies for a general uprising when he gave the signal. On top of the great rock of Cerquin, an impenetrable fortress, he gathered all the neighboring tribes as well as abundant supplies and made trenches and fortifications. He finally gave the signal to attack by killing three unsuspecting Spaniards, who happened to be in the region.

Governor Montejo ordered Captain Alonso de Caceres to attack the stronghold, but it was impossible to take. Montejo then gathered a large number of Indians from Guatemala and Mexico as auxiliary forces, mobilized nearly all the Spanish troops at his disposition, and ordered them to storm the rock. Yet Cerquin remained invincible. At the same t ime, Lempira ordered a general insurrection, Comayagua was set on fire, and the Spanish inhabitants had to flee to Gracias. Gracias was threatened by the surrounding tribes; San Pedro de Puerto Caballos and Trujillo were placed under siege and the Spaniards were hard pressed to maintain their ground.

While Montejo sought help desperately from Santiago de los Caballeros in Guatemala, San Salvador, and San Miguel and even from Spain, Alonso de Caceres resorted to treason to get rid of Lempira. He invited the chief to a peace conference; and when Lempira reaffirmed his desire to continue the fight, a hidden marksman shot him in the forehead. Lempira fell from the highcliffs; and with his death, his 30,000 warriors either fled or surrendered.

In his honor Honduras named there currency "Lempira" and included a drawing to represent him. Ever July 20 they also celebrate in Honduras Lempira Day.

 



Edited by fence - 03 Jun 2011 at 02:11
Back to Top
pinguin View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 15238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2011 at 14:12
Great! Perhaps we should open a thread where Natives are represented.
Back to Top
Tashfin View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai


Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 148
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tashfin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2011 at 16:36
Here are a few:
 
Gallipoli 1915-16 (Turks v British/ANZACS/French) the Turks demonstrated impressive defensive capabilities against the Allies
 
The Siege and Relief  (1st and 2nd) of the Lucknow Residency, 1857-58 , during the Indian Rebellion, (British EIC forces trapped in the Residency v Indian rebels (Sepoys + irregulars) - epic British defense of the Residency compound against numerically superior besieging forces.
 
The battle of Cuito Cuanavale (1987 - 1988) -Angola- Cuba/FAPLA v SADF/UNITA - controversial and disputed, but SADF (South African Defence Force) were stopped in their initialy very successful counteroffensive against the Angolan government, permitting the latter's Cuban allies to counterattack...
 
The siege of Pleven (1876) and Kars (1855) - further impressive example of Turkish defensive tactics.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Back to Top
banna32 View Drop Down
Housecarl
Housecarl
Avatar

Joined: 22 Jan 2013
Location: texas
Status: Offline
Points: 40
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote banna32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2013 at 17:36
what about Stalingrad and Leningrad
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.