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For Sale-The Moon?

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    Posted: 04 Aug 2016 at 11:34
Men from the planet Earth first set foot upon the Moon, 20th July 1969.

Since then, there have been a number of exploratory voyages to the moon, but, who owns the moon?

If, for exmple, the USA, the first country to land on the moon with a human cargo, were said to have claimed the moon for the USA, can anyone dispute that?

Is there some sort of international agreement which preserves the moon for all of mankind, for scientific research for example?

Just askingRolling eyes

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2016 at 01:21
Hilariously, Dennis Hope. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2016 at 02:43
There is a Robert Heinlein short story, _The Man who Bought the Moon_ or some such title.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2016 at 09:55
Hope this helps...
Lunar Registry

Edited by caldrail - 06 Aug 2016 at 09:57
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2016 at 01:59
Caldrail_ Thanks for that link. I thought there must be some sort of treaty.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2016 at 03:35
Okay, looking at the link, what did we learn?

Is the situation with the moon like the situation with Antarctica?

What would happen if someone set up shop on the moon or Ceres or Pluto?  Or would the fact that "no one owns planetary real estate" legally prevent that from happening?  And what would happen if it happened anyways?

What kind of protection does one have if one sets up something?  apparently not sovereignty laws nor property laws?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2016 at 02:58
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Okay, looking at the link, what did we learn?

Is the situation with the moon like the situation with Antarctica?

What would happen if someone set up shop on the moon or Ceres or Pluto?  Or would the fact that "no one owns planetary real estate" legally prevent that from happening?  And what would happen if it happened anyways?

What kind of protection does one have if one sets up something?  apparently not sovereignty laws nor property laws?

Well, I would think that if, for example, a country set up a base on the moon or on another planet, and had the ability to defend it against intruders, they could claim it as their own. BUT, the devil's in the detail. They would have to have the ability to defent it and that would be the problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2016 at 03:00
I believe, there are treaties prohibiting the weaponization of space that may be relevant.

I have emailed a friend who's spent some time in Antarctica, I asked her how they police Antarctica.  However, she doesn't pay attention to her email that often, so I don't know when she'll respond.  But I think Antarctica would be a model for how they would treat space.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2016 at 04:01
Psssst Francisco, wanna buy some cheap land?  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2016 at 01:17
Land is always a good investment, 'cause God ain't making anymore;)

I'll make you a trillionaire if I can pay you in Zimbabwean dollars<grin>. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2016 at 03:07
You know what is really valuable, moondust.  There is only a limited amount of it, having been brought back from the moon.  There was an article on it, a few years back in Wall Street Journal.  It's kind of nasty stuff, chopped up by cosmic rays, made sharp, clinging to everything.  Not like dust on the Earth.
The first use of ground penetrating radar was for the moon, they wanted to make sure that the Apollo missions wouldn't just sink into bottomless dust seas.  Not bottomless, but jagged, unlike dust on earth shaped by wind and water.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2016 at 02:18
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

You know what is really valuable, moondust.  There is only a limited amount of it, having been brought back from the moon.  There was an article on it, a few years back in Wall Street Journal.  It's kind of nasty stuff, chopped up by cosmic rays, made sharp, clinging to everything.  Not like dust on the Earth.
The first use of ground penetrating radar was for the moon, they wanted to make sure that the Apollo missions wouldn't just sink into bottomless dust seas.  Not bottomless, but jagged, unlike dust on earth shaped by wind and water.

So there must be a use for such a substance here on Earth. Perhapd we could mine it, import it and sell it. Just what we need, a whopping great man made crater on the moon!LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2016 at 02:21
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Land is always a good investment, 'cause God ain't making anymore;)

I'll make you a trillionaire if I can pay you in Zimbabwean dollars<grin>. 

I just had a brilliant idea, why don't we rename them Mugabes?

A trillion Mugabes would equal 35cents American. Brilliant?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2016 at 23:03
I think the largest denomination is the 250 trillion dollar bill, you can buy them at a coin store for a couple of US dollars.  On April fools, (1st), a few years back, I convinced my local coffeehouse to take one for a cup of coffee, unfortunately they wouldn't give me change:(  They were whites originally from South Africa, so they were very much aware of Mugabe. 

Think of how sand at the beach gets into everything, then think of a much finer dust, like tiny pieces of glass, jagged and sharp, getting into _everything_.  I don't think that there is any practical use on Earth, except for scientists to experiment with it, to learn how to deal with it in the lunar environment, which we would have to, if we were ever to set up shop long term up there.  One possible use on earth, it could double as itching powder (which is fiber glass), but would probably be too malicious for mere practical jokes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2016 at 02:41
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I think the largest denomination is the 250 trillion dollar bill, you can buy them at a coin store for a couple of US dollars.  On April fools, (1st), a few years back, I convinced my local coffeehouse to take one for a cup of coffee, unfortunately they wouldn't give me change:(  They were whites originally from South Africa, so they were very much aware of Mugabe. 

Think of how sand at the beach gets into everything, then think of a much finer dust, like tiny pieces of glass, jagged and sharp, getting into _everything_.  I don't think that there is any practical use on Earth, except for scientists to experiment with it, to learn how to deal with it in the lunar environment, which we would have to, if we were ever to set up shop long term up there.  One possible use on earth, it could double as itching powder (which is fiber glass), but would probably be too malicious for mere practical jokes.

And how many Americans over the years have been conned into buying the London Bridge?

I remember not so many years ago a piece of "Moon Rock" was travelling around the world where millions of people queued up to look at at. A piece of grey/black rock.

Perhaps moon dust could be used as an abrasive, or mixed with paint to make non-slip patio or pathways.

Anyway, we've had our bit of fun with this topic, and I've found out what I wanted to know, well basically anyway. We won't be seeing any TV Real Estate Auctions promoting the moon anytime soon, or Mars either for that matter.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2016 at 03:44
Actually, it is illegal in the United States to own a moon rock, with one exception, if it is a meteorite and it came from the moon (or Mars or Ceres), then you can own it, but those brought back, not supposed to be in private hands.

Of course, they did get into private hands, someone decides they would make a nice presentation piece to state governors, governor has a rock he doesn't want or care about, governor has a buddy, 'hey, I'll take that off your hands.'  They make their way into private hands, finally NASA figures out that people "shouldn't" have them, so they go around, 'asking' for them back.

I think that you might misunderstand, moondust pound for pound, is more expensive than anything else, with maybe the exception of certain pharmacudacals.  But really the only thing it is good for is experiments to figure out how to deal with this nasty stuff, in (future) moon landings.  I seem to remember that the stuff static clings to everything, and thus would be a problem in any lunar colonization.  Experiments use up the stuff, and at least for now, there is only a limited quantity of it.  But if you secured a supply, it wouldn't be so valuable.

meteorites of lunar origin are not cheap, but they are not that expensive either, especially if they are small.  I have _no_ reason to believe that they are _not_ the real deal (double negative).  Mars meteorites, however, are a lot more rare.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 2016 at 10:47
Quote
I have emailed a friend who's spent some time in Antarctica, I asked her how they police Antarctica. However, she doesn't pay attention to her email that often, so I don't know when she'll respond. But I think Antarctica would be a model for how they would treat space.

Nations can afford to do so because space travel is expensive and limited, but the idea that space is not affected by military thinking is a one for the naïve. Obviously I don't have access to any secret information but remember the furore when the Americans planned an anti-missile shield using laser armed satellites?

Sadly, human beings will always be the same animal, no matter what Gene Roddenberry thought, and thus the final frontier will parallel the colonial expansion era of history and all its disastrous consequences all over again, this time on a much larger scale, assuming we ever manage to create an engine that makes interstellar travel a practical possibility.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 2016 at 11:35
Originally posted by caldrail caldrail wrote:

Quote
I have emailed a friend who's spent some time in Antarctica, I asked her how they police Antarctica. However, she doesn't pay attention to her email that often, so I don't know when she'll respond. But I think Antarctica would be a model for how they would treat space.

Nations can afford to do so because space travel is expensive and limited, but the idea that space is not affected by military thinking is a one for the naïve. Obviously I don't have access to any secret information but remember the furore when the Americans planned an anti-missile shield using laser armed satellites?

Sadly, human beings will always be the same animal, no matter what Gene Roddenberry thought, and thus the final frontier will parallel the colonial expansion era of history and all its disastrous consequences all over again, this time on a much larger scale, assuming we ever manage to create an engine that makes interstellar travel a practical possibility.

We could save trillions of dollars and time in travelling to the stellar bodies by merely making contact with our interstellar neighbours and asking them about the other planets and solar systems. If only we knew what language they speak!

Wink
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