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Freedom of the Press, Where does it End?

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Al Jassas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2011 at 18:41
This shows how monopoly is really bad in general and in the media is catastrophic. No one should have the kind of monopoly that Murdoch has.
 
 
 
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Yes, this whole scandal has been overshadowing many other important issues on the news here... such as America going bankrupt, the Eurozone crisis, famine in the horn of Africa, Libya, Afghanistan...
 
 
 
 
America won't go bankrupt, its all political theater between Obama and the republican leadership to score political points.
 
The president is constitutionally not bound to follow the debt ceiling and all republicans in the leadership plus the majority of those in the house and senate along with almost all dems didn't hide the fact that they will raise the debt ceiling. The only issue is coming from the lobotimised retards from the tea party who huff and puff and in the end won't do a thing to stop the vote because the guys who sent them to Washington are the same people who want the debt ceiling raised.
 
 
 
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bagrat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bagrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2011 at 22:24
Originally posted by Parnell Parnell wrote:


You can yap on about the rule of law and regulation all you want, but there is a profound deviancy and stupidity in British and Irish society. Many people actively seek out this muck and then proceed to poison their minds with its drivel. Its pathetic and sad, but at some stage the people will have to start taking responsibility for their collective voyeurism.
Isn't this a bit of a chicken and egg situation (the egg was first btw.)?  Isn't said stupidity not only the reason for the above described state of the press, and the rest of the entertainment industry, but also its objective? Don't press and public feed on each other in ever more bizarre spiral of thrill seeking and its fullfillment. And is it not the task of the entertainment corporations not only to satisfy but to create ever more efficient methods of diversions from reality?
The more the public concernes itself with a substitute reality that is voyeuristically observed, the more it is distracted from its own existence that has become increasingly banal and regulated.
Stupid people don't ask questions, they consume!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 10:17
Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

Funded by the public but state controlled and my question is, are British citizens really happy with this set up? Taxation without representation is a great evil i thought the British government had learned some time ago

Panther, the British are represented by their MPs. 'Taxation without representation' motto started because British in America weren't represented by MPs.
Quote Isn't this a bit of a chicken and egg situation (the egg was first btw.)

Yes, the egg was first. Unless the neo-lamarkists turn out to be correct
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Zagros View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 12:18
Interesting development today.  Revelations from ex- News of the World editor, Colin Myler and legal manager, Tom Crone suggest that James Murdoch misled MPs at the select committee three days ago by undermining his claim of ignorance of how widespread criminality in his organisation was/is.  Pretty much confirming what most people thought already... that he's his father's son, a sc.um.bag.   He has as such implicated himself in suspicion of conspiring to pervert the course of justice and is being referred to the Met by Tom Watson MP.

David Cameron: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14245922


Edited by Zagros - 22 Jul 2011 at 12:19
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gcle2003 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 19:48

Both Britain and the US  tax people without allowing them representation and always have done.  So for that matter does Luxembourg and every other country I have any knowledge of. Going on about 'no taxation without representation' is flogging a horse that was never alive.

On the topic though, I was travelling around parts of the UK when the story was breaking, and remember one comedian miimicking a butcher holding up a leg of lamb and being pointed yt by people screaming "You killed a little lamb! How could you do that!?" Scandal, gossip, and emotional intrusion are potent products that have been selling since newspapers were invented and will continue to be barring some major change in human nature. The only thing new here is the technology involved.

Meeting with old friends (a prime purpose of the trip) I didn't find one Fleet Street veteran who didn't agree that the same intrusions, given the technology, would not have happened at any time in the last 60 years[1], though of course different papers have different target audiences and therefore target different classes of victim.  
 
That being said, there are legal limits that if exceeded should result in conviction. And if the public genuinely wants them, maybe new limits should be enacted: the French law on privacy is for instance much stronger. And of course paying and receiving bribes to and by police and other officials exceeds those limits, though again there are more discreet ways of obtaining information orco-operation, even from MPs, that are neither irreproachable nor new.
 
[1] Nobody I know is still alive who remembers further back.
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Al Jassas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 20:06
I was waiting for your reply Graham and thank you for it.
 
My question is did you ever work for NoTW? Was the tabloid culture in it back in the day because to everyone the tabloid culture began with The Sun.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2011 at 04:41
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

The BBC is accountable on everything it does, it is also well run and the general public hold it dear in their hearts.   The licensing cost is being reduced by 20% and the organisation is divesting accordingly.  Is it little coincidence that News Corp backed the Conservatives and had been lobbying for just that so that it can fill the void on a commercial basis?


That is interesting. Please pardon any rudeness on my part, i am just usually skeptical of any government involvement in most anything. As for the BBC, I guess as cherished as any entity is, it will always have it's homegrown critics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2011 at 04:51
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

Funded by the public but state controlled and my question is, are British citizens really happy with this set up? Taxation without representation is a great evil i thought the British government had learned some time ago


Panther, the British are represented by their MPs. 'Taxation without representation' motto started because British in America weren't represented by MPs.


I know. I was just asking if they were really happy with this setup, seeing that they fund it but do not control it. Too my mind, obvious nationality aside, i couldn't have helped in noting the correlation.

If the Brits are happy with being taxed by the state for their entertainment and information, as well as this being regulated by the same, then it is no skin off my nose. It's their business, who am i to argue they should change what they are happy and comfortable with.

As for me, it is just too much state control that i find a bit unnerving.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2011 at 05:15
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Both Britain and the US  tax people without allowing them representation and always have done.  So for that matter does Luxembourg and every other country I have any knowledge of. Going on about 'no taxation without representation' is flogging a horse that was never alive.

I don't think i could quite agree with you about the first hundred years in US history of representation and taxation, but i can see somewhat what you mean since our government has grown immensely over the past century.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2011 at 12:00
Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Both Britain and the US  tax people without allowing them representation and always have done.  So for that matter does Luxembourg and every other country I have any knowledge of. Going on about 'no taxation without representation' is flogging a horse that was never alive.

I don't think i could quite agree with you about the first hundred years in US history of representation and taxation, but i can see somewhat what you mean since our government has grown immensely over the past century.

For the first hundred years of US history women  for instance were taxed but not represented (income tax isn't the only tax people pay - as you point out so is the BBC licence fee), apart from the right to vote being restricted by various other economic, social and racial factors.
 
(Same applies pretty well everywhere else of course.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2011 at 12:30
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

I was waiting for your reply Graham and thank you for it.
 
My question is did you ever work for NoTW? Was the tabloid culture in it back in the day because to everyone the tabloid culture began with The Sun.
 
Al-Jassas
No I never worked for the NOTW, though my unit at IPC helped somewhat in allowing Murdoch to win his fight with Robert Maxwell to take it over (we were chary about the sale of the Sun to him the following year, but Cudlipp went ahead with it anyway: another longer term mistake).
 
The 'tabloid culture' really pre-existed newspapers as we know them, certainly both in the UK and the US, where an exreme example would be the alleged allegations of Burr's affair with his daugheter, which led to the fatal duel with Hamilton. It then grew with the growth of literacy and the cheapening of printing techniques, especially graphic ones, the launch of the NOTW in 1840-odd being one step on the way (it needs to be understood that the NOTW was always a sensationalist sheet dependent on sexual, preferably perverse, stories, scandal and gossip for its success). Hearst in the US and Northcliffe in England built their empires on, effectively, 'tabloid' journalism, though their papers were not actually tabloid-sized.
 
The first tabloid tabloid (as it were) was the New York Daily News, which also provided the model for the London Daily Mirror, which became tabloid in 1934, and by the '40s had become the world's largest circulation newspaper (outside the Soviet Union) under the editorships of Guy Bartholomew and then Hugh Cudlipp.
 
The Daily News added another key factor in 'tabloid' journalism - emphasis on pictures, particularly 'cheesecake' - in which it was also followed by the Daily Mirror. That I guess is where the whole concept actually started. When Murdoch bought the Sun from IPC (which also owned the Mirror) he toook on an ex-Mirror man as editor, and really just pushed the envelope open a litle wider, most famously by the bare-breasted models that graced page 3.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2011 at 12:56
Tabloid culture is basically gossip culture.  It is an extension of an innate social human characteristic.  And the most intriguing gossip revolves around scandal and revelations of sensational secrets of public figures.  So in my opinion it is a bit moronic to throw blame around for tabloid culture when its essence is so intrinsic to basic human social nature.  The real issue here is and always has been criminality and corruption - the extent to which it is prevalent in our public institutions.  This is no excuse or justification for things like, for example, public servants in very sensitive positions abusing their privileges for profit...


Edited by Zagros - 23 Jul 2011 at 12:57
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