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From Siberia to the Americas

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    Posted: 27 Apr 2014 at 08:09
http://www.geocurrents.info/place/russia-ukraine-and-caucasus/siberia/siberian-genetics-native-americans-and-the-altai-connection
The above article discusses the ancient population of Siberia, and movements of both Siberians and Europeans through Beringia, to the Americas.
 
It also discusses the genetic similarities between Siberians, some Europeans, Americans, and even as far away as Australians (Aborigines) who share the yDNA Haplogroup C which is common among Siberians.
 
[Quote] The third major Y-DNA haplogroup found among Native Americans is haplogroup C, which is also relatively widespread in Siberia. Haplogroup C is even more common in the Pacific and among indigenous Australians; some scholars associate haplogroup C with the first out-of-Africa migration that took a coastal route along Southern Asia and into Southeast Asia and Australia some 50,000 years ago. However, American Indians (especially some Na-Dené-, Algonquian-, or Siouan-speaking populations), Siberians, and Central Asians share the more restricted C3 sub-haplogroup, while many Pacific groups have the C2 sub-haplogroup and Australians Aborigines the C4 sub-haplogroup.

Source: http://www.geocurrents.info/place/russia-ukraine-and-caucasus/siberia/siberian-genetics-native-americans-and-the-altai-connection#ixzz304HwaGt0

[quote]
 
Assuming that the article is accurate, it shows a link between indigenous Americans and Siberians, as well as other groups.
 
Once read, the article should provide a basis for some discussion here.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2014 at 16:05
Sorry fellow. I don't know what you call "European", but reading carefully your link above, it is obvious the settling of the Americas had nothing to do with Europeans whatsoever. At least you define an Ainu of Japan (the Australoid skulls that many claim they have found in the Americas) as an "European".



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2014 at 04:08
Pinguin wrote"Sorry fellow. I don't know what you call "European", but reading carefully your link above, it is obvious the settling of the Americas had nothing to do with Europeans whatsoever.

Read it again, you've missed the point AGAIN!


 At least you define an Ainu of Japan (the Australoid skulls that many claim they have found in the Americas) as an "European".

No, you're wrong again. The Ainu are the indigenous people of Japan, genetically linked to the Andaman Islanders, and, in much earlier times, possibly to pockets of people in Mongolia. The Ainu, like the Australian Aborigines, were part of the Out of Africa Coastal Migration.

While I believe that they were part of one of the original migrations, I wouldn't be prepared to argue the point if you suggest that they were part of a second or third wave.

What the article proposes is that, along with Siberian people, there were European people on Beringia at the relevant time, and that they could have/did form part of the migration into the Americas.

I found the genetic evidence very interesting.

The ancient Siberians definately were Asian.

They were descendants of the Ket people, who have distinctly Asian phenotypes, and who are believed to have originated in China, or in Tibet.

But none of this precludes Europeans from having joined the migration. In fact, living on the Beringia along with Siberians, why wouldn't they?




Edited by toyomotor - 28 Apr 2014 at 04:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2014 at 04:46
The ancient Ket people, ancestors of modern Siberians, are genetically linked, as the following article explains, to American Indigenous people.

Published on Jun 5, 2013

Visit http://1atlas.com. Argish as Ket use to say You are welcome.
The Ket people have the highest proportion of Y-chromosome haplogroup Q outside of the 'New' World. In other words, Native Americans (North and South) have the highest numbers of males, on average, in Hg Q. (92 - 100%) The Kets are #2 with around 90-95% of their males. The Selkups, who are a Samoyedic people not far from the Kets, have the 3rd highest rate. Around 70 - 75% of Selkup males are in Y-chrom haplogroup Q. Other rates are 9% in N. Iran, 4-5% in Norway and Iceland and 3% in Hungary. All these groups mentioned above belong(ed) to the "clan Q" that came into being in Central Asia. Its closest relatives (in the paternal lineage) are R-lineages, R1 and R2. This means that linguists, who would want to establish further relationships of Paleoindian "Q-languages" with other groups, should start to study Basque (R1b) and Burushaski (R2). This connection is more than 40 000 years old and I think that it is possible to verify with open atlas project.
----------------------------------------­---------------------
The Peopling of the Americas and the Dene-Yeniseian Connection with Ket Arin-Pumpokol people. Dr. Edward Vadja. "The Peopling of the Americas and the Dene-Yeniseian Connection"a part of the University of Kentucky Linguistics Lecture Series and
the College of Arts and Sciences Russia's Realms.
Ket Family Division:
0. Proto-Yeniseian (before 500 BC; split around 1 AD)
1. Northern Yeniseian (split around 700 AD)
1.1. Ket (200 speakers)
1.2. Yugh † (extinct by 1990)
2. Southern Yeniseian †
2.1. Kott--Assan (split around 1200 AD)
2.1.1. Kott † (extinct by the mid-1800s)
2.1.2. Assan † (extinct by 1800)
2.2. Arin--Pumpokol (split around 550 AD)
2.2.1. Arin † (extinct by 1800)
2.2.2. Pumpokol † (extinct by 1750)
3 The Ob-Yeniseian Languages
The Ob-Yeniseian family is divided into two branches, Ob and Yeniseian, named for the river systems along which speakers lived.
The Ob branch is by far the largest in terms of total speakers. Očets is the only living representative, although several other now-extinct languages are known from wordlists and tax records, though relatively little is known about them. These include Sočak (extinct by 1980) and "Tavdan" (extinct in the 17th century), which appear to be closely related to Očets, and Khused (extinct in the late 19th century).

And, as mentioned in the article, the close relative to yHpg Q is the R1a, R1b family, which is wide spread throughout Europe.

Now, whether this means that the Kets had a European admixture or that Europeans had/have an Asian admixture, I don't know.

What are your thoughts?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2014 at 05:40
If we look up for information about the Bering strait it is rather narrow, about 82 kilomeres, and shallow, up to about 50 metres. So not only could any population that may have lived there when it was a complete "land bridge" have walked, but even with todays distance most people with almost any kind of boats or rafts could have crossed. It is as if  it had to happen, as soon as there was anyone there, and they had anything in water.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2014 at 06:41
Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

If we look up for information about the Bering strait it is rather narrow, about 82 kilomeres, and shallow, up to about 50 metres. So not only could any population that may have lived there when it was a complete "land bridge" have walked, but even with todays distance most people with almost any kind of boats or rafts could have crossed. It is as if  it had to happen, as soon as there was anyone there, and they had anything in water.

Certainly, I agree with you.

Even today, Inuit people from Alaska travel by small dinghies to Siberia to meet up with other tribesmen. They speak the same language and share religious beliefs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2014 at 09:15
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

If we look up for information about the Bering strait it is rather narrow, about 82 kilomeres, and shallow, up to about 50 metres. So not only could any population that may have lived there when it was a complete "land bridge" have walked, but even with todays distance most people with almost any kind of boats or rafts could have crossed. It is as if  it had to happen, as soon as there was anyone there, and they had anything in water.

Certainly, I agree with you.

Even today, Inuit people from Alaska travel by small dinghies to Siberia to meet up with other tribesmen. They speak the same language and share religious beliefs.
I would not at all be surprised if there was continuous contacts across this strait, and not unlikely also further south at the Aleut islands, and perhaps even islands now dissappeared, for many millena. In addition to different sealevels there is also the very seismic active  tectonic plates to be taken into account. Volcanic islands. like the Balearic, and near Iceland, may come to the surface, later to dissappear. Sometimes even repeating the proces. So there could weel have been "sunken stepping stones". 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2014 at 09:46
Well it certainly seems that the contact between the Alaskans and the Siberians has been continuous, possibly for millenia. 

And I agree with you there were probably many small land bridges whereby people could travel back and forward, and which no longer exist.

I suppose we'll never know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2014 at 09:49
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Well it certainly seems that the contact between the Alaskans and the Siberians has been continuous, possibly for millenia. 

And I agree with you there were probably many small land bridges whereby people could travel back and forward, and which no longer exist.

I suppose we'll never know.
On the contrary I suppose we will know a lot more. In particular underwater research, probably in part by unmanned "drones" will reveal a lot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2014 at 03:21
I am not against the hypothesis that a continuous flow of people crossed Siberia. As the matter of fact Inuits arrived to the New World circa 4.000 B.C. as some studies show. However, by the time Inuits tried to enter the Americas through the North the found all southern lands already settled. So they started to colonize the New World in the Arctic from east to west, up to reaching Greenland! Rather than following south.  That says something about the patterns of settlement.

And, by the way, the rates that Toyomayor shows about allele frequencies in Europe just show Europeans also have an important Central Asian input. They don't show ancient Europeans migrating to the Americas... no way! Wink


 


Edited by pinguin - 29 Apr 2014 at 03:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2014 at 05:57
Pinguin:
You've got it back to front.

How could ancient Americans have had a genetic input to Europeans?

There's no evidence, that I know of, of a back migration from, for example, South America, to Europe. There probably was some back migration from North America to Siberia, or possibly even Europe, but certainly not from South America.

Please explain to me why Europeans could not have travelled through Beringia to the Americas.

Who says the Inuits attempted to move into the Americas?

Where's your evidence for that?

Had they in fact migrated into North America proper, they would have found so much fertile land available that they would have stayed. In fact, who says that some of the Indigenous Americans aren't genetically related to modern day Inuits?

In fact, modern day Inuits, according to Wiki, are descendants of the Thule Culture, which replaced the Dorset Culture, from Alaska. So there's the evidence of back migration from Alaska to Siberia.

The yDNA Hpg R originated in Central Asia, and it's children, R1a and R1b spread throughout Europe. Hpg C can be found among Ameroindians, as well as Australian Aborigines, and the parent group, Hpg Q is found among Siberians.

This cannot be disputed.

As an aside, tell me why Chinese, for example, could not have joined the migration, or Turkic people.

Everything is possible, mi amigo!




Edited by toyomotor - 29 Apr 2014 at 06:26
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See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_of_the_Americas





Edited by toyomotor - 29 Apr 2014 at 06:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2014 at 07:38
Pinguin:

Going by the following (extract) from Wiki, there is a European representation in the mtDNA of Indigenous American people.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_X_(mtDNA)

Unlike the four main Native American mtDNA haplogroups (ABCD), and the Y-chromosome sub-haplogroup Q1a3a, X is not at all strongly associated with East Asia. The main occurrence of X in Asia discovered so far is in the Altay people in Southwestern Siberia,[12] and detailed examination[6] has shown that the Altaian sequences are all almost identical (haplogroup X2e), suggesting that they arrived in the area probably from the South Caucasus more recently than 5,000 BP.

The Caucasus, as you know, is the origin of the Caucasian people-white Europeans.

and
"In addition, these same (2001) researchers indicated that the mtDNA haplogroup X haplotype present in the Altaians of Siberia is intermediate between Native Americans clades and that of Europeans. As a Russian research group observed, "American Indian and European haplogroup X mtDNAs ... are distantly related to each other". They propose however not an early European colonization of America, but that Altaians contributed to migrants bound for Europe and America; "The network further suggests that the Altaian X haplotypes occupy the intermediate position between European and American Indian haplogroup X mtDNA lineages"[12] However, further research in 2003 indicated that the haplotype present in the Altaians is not intermediate between Native American clades and that of Europeans, and that the Native Americans probably split early from the others, with the split occurring "likely at the very beginning of their expansion and spread from the Near East, ... around, or after, the Last Glacial Maximum when the climate ameliorated".[6]






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2014 at 08:07
If there is some genes Europeans and ancient american populations have in common it could be both result of spread from somewhere inAsia to the Americas and to Europe, or fromEurope via Siberia to the Americas. And "Caucasians" are just a name, they don´t necessarily have much to do with the Caucasus area.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2014 at 10:46
Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

If there is some genes Europeans and ancient american populations have in common it could be both result of spread from somewhere inAsia to the Americas and to Europe,(1)

 or fromEurope via Siberia to the Americas.(2)

 And "Caucasians" are just a name, they don´t necessarily have much to do with the Caucasus area.

1. Highly unlikely at that time;

2. That's what I'm suggesting; and

3. Are you serious? Where do you think the term Caucasian came from, Tahiti?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2014 at 11:22
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

If there is some genes Europeans and ancient american populations have in common it could be both result of spread from somewhere inAsia to the Americas and to Europe,(1)

 or fromEurope via Siberia to the Americas.(2)

 And "Caucasians" are just a name, they don´t necessarily have much to do with the Caucasus area.

1. Highly unlikely at that time;
You give no reason whatsoever. And what it has to dom with "that time" I can hardly see.
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

2. That's what I'm suggesting
Why do You think that is more likely. Give the reasons.
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

3. Are you serious? Where do you think the term Caucasian came from, Tahiti?
No. But those connecting "whites" with Caucasus mountain range long ago may or may not have been wrong.

Edited by fantasus - 29 Apr 2014 at 11:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2014 at 15:25
fantasus:

You give no reason whatsoever. And what it has to do with "that time" I can hardly see.

Aren't we talking about the arrival of the first Americans from Siberia? That's the time I'm talking about.

Why do You think that is more likely. Give the reasons.

Again, I've already proposed that people came from Siberia and maybe even Europe to the Americas. And I believe this because of the writings by many scientists-you can find more info in Wikipedia.

No. But those connecting "whites" with Caucasus mountain range long ago may or may not have been wrong.

Now you're just being stupid. If you want to continue in this manner, I won't bother replying to your posts.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2014 at 04:25
Something no strange at all, actually. But let's but in this way. All people of Eurasia have SOME early ancestors in Central Asia. If you say that way, I won't complain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2014 at 08:14
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Something no strange at all, actually. But let's but in this way. All people of Eurasia have SOME early ancestors in Central Asia. If you say that way, I won't complain

What I will agree with is that many people of "Eurasia" have an Asian/European admixture.

Where did this come from anyway?

We weren't talking about Eurasia we were talking about who may have crossed the Beringia Land Bridge, migrating to the Americas.

You have maintained that no Europeans were involved in the migration, but you can't prove it.

I have said that it's possible as Europeans have now found to have lived on Beringia about the time of the Siberian migration to the Americas.

But what's the big deal? If Europeans did join the migration as I've suggested, so what?

All it would mean is that, as I suspect, some indigenous Americans have European ancestry.

What if some of the migrants were also Chinese, or Turkic or even Nordic?






Edited by toyomotor - 30 Apr 2014 at 08:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2014 at 03:01
There is a factor you must consider. Whatever the ancestry, the natives of the Americas were in genetic terms some of the most homogenous groups worldwide, regardless if way back in Asia they have some ancestors of different regions. So, if you believe that a multiracial (or "multicultural" which is the anglophone euphemism in fashion these days) population migrated to the Americas, I bet you are wrong. For instance, I doubt there was a single blond, black or pink skin, green or blue eyed or curly fellow in the Americas before Columbus reached the hemisphere (or the Norse arrived to Newfoundland, if you prefer).


Edited by pinguin - 01 May 2014 at 03:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2014 at 03:41
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

There is a factor you must consider. Whatever the ancestry, the natives of the Americas were in genetic terms some of the most homogenous groups worldwide, regardless if way back in Asia they have some ancestors of different regions. So, if you believe that a multiracial (or "multicultural" which is the anglophone euphemism in fashion these days) population migrated to the Americas, I bet you are wrong. For instance, I doubt there was a single blond, black or pink skin, green or blue eyed or curly fellow in the Americas before Columbus reached the hemisphere (or the Norse arrived to Newfoundland, if you prefer).


But, mi amigo, that's the whole point. Neither of us can prove our theory either way.

I don't say that among the migrants there were blonde haired blue eyed people, but, imo, there  could have been people from what now is Eastern Europe, or Turkic people.

Do you agree with the fact that there were Europeans living on the Beringia Land Bridge about the same time as people from Siberia were living there, and about the same time as the migration into the Americas was taking place?

But you haven't answered my question. If there were Europeans among the migrants, what's the big deal?

Are you also a racist? Do you wish to maintain that Ameroindians, prior to Columbus, were an ethnically pure people?

I just don't get your argument. You stubbornly maintain a position which can not be proven, while I suggest to the contrary. I have no proof, neither do you senor.

This from the Christian Science Monitor:
http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2013/1120/DNA-study-of-Siberian-skeleton-links-Europeans-to-Native-Americans

"To trace the ancestry of these ancient people, Maanasa Raghavan, a researcher at the University of Copenhagen in Denmark, and colleagues managed to extract DNA from the ancient skeleton.

The team found that the mitochondrial DNA, or genetic material carried in the cytoplasm of cells that is passed through the maternal line, came from a lineage known as U, which is rare or extinct now, but was once common in hunter-gatherers from Europe during the Paleolithic Period.

The team also sequenced the male sex chromosome (Y chromosome), which traces the paternal lineage of the skeleton. On the paternal side, the ancient boy came from a lineage known as R, which is now found in southern Siberia and western Eurasia. The R lineage is also a sister group to one common in Native Americans.

The researchers estimate that between 14 and 38 percent of Native American ancestry could come from this ancestral population, with the remaining portion coming from ancient East Asians." 


 I've now provided you with many sources which tend to corroberate my theory. Argue with the experts at your peril.

Preferably, post some sources of your own which state, categorically, that no Europeans could have migrated to the Americas.

Face up to it, if you claim Ameroindian ancestry, you probably have East European ancestry too.





Edited by toyomotor - 01 May 2014 at 03:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2014 at 03:50
I just mentioned to you a fact. Native Americans resemble each other, no matter the place they live in the Americas. They aren't clones, but they look similar. Of course, I am talking about people among modern natives that are still relatively pure, no matter there has passed 5 centuries since the invasion. For instance, every single native American has straight, thick and dark hair. Grey hair is not very common among them, and also baldness is not as common as in Caucasians. That is just a single feature I could mention as an example. Now, for you to know, a feature that perhaps is similar between natives and Europeans is they usually have narrow noses, unlike Africans, Mongolians, Australoid and other races than tend to have wide noses. Eyes vary from Mongolian to European in shape but always are the same dark color. Skins vary from medium brown to light brown. mouth are narrow and lips vary from thin to medium. But height and body shape vary very much, and  depends on each particular group.



Edited by pinguin - 01 May 2014 at 04:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2014 at 04:05
Pinguin:
You have argued the point, illogically imo, over the issue of the possibility of Europeans joining the migration to the Americas.

Here is my last contribution to the discussion, unless you can come up with some scientific research which proves your point.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v505/n7481/full/nature12736.html

Upper Palaeolithic Siberian genome reveals dual ancestry of Native Americans

Nature
 
505,
 
87–91
 
 
doi:10.1038/nature12736
Received
 
Accepted
 
Published online
 


Edited by toyomotor - 01 May 2014 at 04:12
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2014 at 04:23
I wonder when Europeans will stop to rob to Americans Indians. First they rob the lands and killed them in mass. And then for five centuries they have tried to steal the past. They won't succeed, not only because Amerindians are still here, but because the mixed peoples of the Americas, like myself, identify with them rather than with Europeans.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2014 at 04:32
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

I wonder when Europeans will stop to rob to Americans Indians. First they rob the lands and killed them in mass. And then for five centuries they have tried to steal the past. They won't succeed, not only because Amerindians are still here, but because the mixed peoples of the Americas, like myself, identify with them rather than with Europeans.


Answer the questions put to you, and stop crying in your porridge.

I suggest that:
a. You are totally wrong and you damn well know it;
b. Your posts are ethnocentric, with no scientific foundation or support;
c. You are racist, determined not to include even the possibility of European migration and/or admixture, despite the findings of many scientists who claim the opposite;
d. You have never provided the least bit of scientific research to support your claims, because there is none;
e. Your responses to my posts amount to ethnocentric ranting, nothing more.

This is your last chance to come up with some scientific support for your rants.



It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2014 at 04:39
Unfortunately, most scientists in the world today are either Europeans, European descendants or European brainwashed. Otherwise, you wouldn't explain the persistence of lunatic theories that still are repeated quite often, such as those of the X chromosome, the Solutreans, the Thor Heyerdahl's boloney, the Australoid predecesors  and the "white" Indians.
What I am saying clearly is that there is much pseudoscience in the "theories" of the peopling of the Americas. And yes, there are also good scientists in there, no doubt. So, one must be careful to look for explanations having so much bias in the field.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2014 at 04:48
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Unfortunately, most scientists in the world today are either Europeans, European descendants or European brainwashed. Otherwise, you wouldn't explain the persistence of lunatic theories that still are repeated quite often, such as those of the X chromosome, the Solutreans, the Thor Heyerdahl's boloney, the Australoid predecesors  and the "white" Indians.
What I am saying clearly is that there is much pseudoscience in the "theories" of the peopling of the Americas. And yes, there are also good scientists in there, no doubt. So, one must be careful to look for explanations having so much bias in the field.

This thread might just as well be closed. There's no  sense coming from this man. Dead
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2014 at 04:52
No sense? It is hard to hear the truth, isn't? I bet you aren't very happy to hear that in the Americas there is a large number of people that don't appreciate the European invasion of the Americas, and that see with bad eyes any suggestion of theories which try to link the Americas to Europe.
But don't be so upset. What else would you expect from the Americas particularly from the so called "Latin" America?
 




Edited by pinguin - 01 May 2014 at 04:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2014 at 09:58
Buenas Noches.
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2014 at 13:36
Pewkayal (Mapudungun: bye now) Wink
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