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Government Shutdown

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toyomotor View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Dec 2018 at 07:06
I've just read that a proposed "shut down" of the US government has been delayed for two weeks.

What happens in the case of a government shut down? 

Do all of the government employees simply stay home?

Why does the government shut down? 

It's not a concept that I understand, in countries which follow the Westminster System, if supply (government budget/spending) is denied by the Lower House, the government goes into "caretaker" mode, and election is held if the impasse cannot be overcome, and, for all intents and purposes, life goes on.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2018 at 22:28
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

I've just read that a proposed "shut down" of the US government has been delayed for two weeks.

What happens in the case of a government shut down? 

Do all of the government employees simply stay home?

Why does the government shut down? 

It's not a concept that I understand, in countries which follow the Westminster System, if supply (government budget/spending) is denied by the Lower House, the government goes into "caretaker" mode, and election is held if the impasse cannot be overcome, and, for all intents and purposes, life goes on.

 
In the event of a shut down the president is refusing to sign bills that keep government funded. This time its about giving the parties time to decide on DACA. Trump has expressed a desire to approve DACA in order to fund the wall. When speaker Pelosi sits down with the administration and republicans, all will be well. Democrats can't "travel with the ball" much more. Not after crying about DACA all last year. I hear crickets Nanny P!
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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toyomotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2018 at 23:44
Doesn't Congress have a say on government shutdown?

As I asked previously, how are government services delivered if/when the government shuts down.

I have mixed feelings about DACA and the wall, but as I've written on a number of times, Trump is obliged to protect his borders. We've all seen the chaos created in Europe when hundreds of thousands of Syrians arrived on it's doorstep. Angela Merkels benevolence was soon recognised as a failure, no country can accept such large numbers with the corresponding impact on budgetary matters.

In the case of the US/Mexico border, there are only about 5000 people trying to cross illegally, but, if Trump gives in to them, he may as well open his borders completely to allow the flood which would follow.

The obvious answer is to address the issues which have created the mass exodus. If stability of government and better financial outcomes for the citizens could benefit, I wouldn't be averse to the US, perhaps with help from other countries, occupying those Central American countries and teach them good governance (and I say that carefully, because I don't see good governance in evidence always in the US). Throwing billions of dollars in aid at them is not the answer, the dollars end up in the pockets of a few and the population derive little or no benefit at all.

The world community must step up on a number of issues in the name of global humanity.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 02:13
Krauthammer (RIP) did a PragerU youtube clip on illegal immigration.  He argues for a wall, and he has some good points.  The democrats are against a wall, because illegal immigration (after amnesties) feed the democratic party.  Also a big problem is that the democrats are flirting with identity politics, which is another term for reverse racism.  When they extol over, "people of color" what does that say about 'whites'?  It implies that whites are bleached and colorless.  When they say, "black lives matter," that implies that other lives, particularly "blue lives" (police) don't matter.  They don't directly say that, but they don't need to say it, when it is pointed out, they don't do anything.  How can they?  If they recognize that blue lives matter, then they would have to recognize that at least some of the shootings, some of the deaths were due to threats on officers, and not quite so innocent, one sided.

Democrats like to argue for "undocumented workers" (illegal immigration) for humanitarian grounds, but there is more going on than just humanitarian grounds.  The mass of immigrants coming up from Central America in a caravan are an opportunity for the "liberals" to pillory Trump.  But their answer is too easy, and the right is well aware of that.  There is a reason why the democrats have lost the working class.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 15:24
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Doesn't Congress have a say on government shutdown?
It's a standoff between the leaders of the House and Senate and POTUS can always sign an extension of the current budget. In 2013 the shutdown over Obamacare lasted for 16 days and that meant people might not get paid if the budget bill wasn't signed.
Ted Cruz and Newt Gingrich were involved in notable shut downs over Obama Care and cutting the budget. Under controlled shutdowns it can happen over a weekend without affecting much.
Government services other than social security, are first to stop. Public access to government land and monuments, National Parks get hit first with de-funding.

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

I have mixed feelings about DACA and the wall, but as I've written on a number of times, Trump is obliged to protect his borders. We've all seen the chaos created in Europe when hundreds of thousands of Syrians arrived on it's doorstep. Angela Merkels benevolence was soon recognised as a failure, no country can accept such large numbers with the corresponding impact on budgetary matters.

In the case of the US/Mexico border, there are only about 5000 people trying to cross illegally, but, if Trump gives in to them, he may as well open his borders completely to allow the flood which would follow.
I will listen to the people of Tijuana, Mexico who are saying the caravan is bad news and we don't want them unless we can establish who they are and oh, ya- HELP!

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

The obvious answer is to address the issues which have created the mass exodus. If stability of government and better financial outcomes for the citizens could benefit, I wouldn't be averse to the US, perhaps with help from other countries, occupying those Central American countries and teach them good governance (and I say that carefully, because I don't see good governance in evidence always in the US). Throwing billions of dollars in aid at them is not the answer, the dollars end up in the pockets of a few and the population derive little or no benefit at all.

The world community must step up on a number of issues in the name of global humanity.

When it's too late and people are being held by the thousands at the border democrats will want to act.



Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2018 at 01:03
I read that the shutdown has been averted anyway.

It seems to me that no single person, POTUS or otherwise should be able to cause a shutdown of government services, with the attendant risk on employee remuneration.


It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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