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Hamas kills 18 suspected Israel informants

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Arlington View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 Aug 2014 at 00:07
No outrage when a Jew from Israel is killed. NOT from the UN. NOT from the terrorist apologists here on this forum or the world in general.

But WHERE NOW is the outrage for Hamas killing Palestinians without the benefit of judicial process.

What I expect?

Nothing.


For as good sycophants of Hamas which is to say terror.. they will no doubt view this as a necessary Hamas action to regain public attention and reinforce their internal position of authority.


Based on dissimulation, disinformation, distortion, brutality, marginalization and utter disregard for the rule of law..military or civil; international or other.


And besides these were traitors to the Hamas cause. Right?

Or?

Silence.

In either case: Typical.

Support Hamas? Apologize for them? Then be known as a terrorist.



https://news.vice.com/article/hamas-kills-18-suspected-informants-a-day-after-israel-killed-three-hamas-leaders

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/08/22/hamas-kills-11-suspected-informers-for-israel/


http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/22/world/meast/mideast-crisis/index.html




Edited by Arlington - 23 Aug 2014 at 00:55
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es_bih View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2014 at 03:51
.

Edited by es_bih - 13 Jun 2016 at 15:35
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toyomotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2014 at 09:52
Hamas kills 18 suspected Israel informants:
 That's right, suspected. No trial, no independent unbiased jury, no avenue of appeal.
 
HAMAS is an Islamic terrorist organisation.
 
HAMAS should be wiped out completely and hoepfully a moderate government installed.
I often wonder why I try.
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Arlington View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arlington Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2014 at 12:57
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:





Hamas kills 18 suspected Israel informants:
 That's right, suspected. No trial, no independent unbiased jury, no avenue of appeal.
 
HAMAS is an Islamic terrorist organisation.
 
HAMAS should be wiped out completely and hoepfully a moderate government installed.




No argument here Toyo.

But on these boards you're in the minority. As there will always be a distortion or evasion or deflection for what Hamas has done by a member here. As a means of apologizing for them. Typical of the haters of the State of Israel.


Specifically, when feeble straw man ad hominems are thrown against the nation State of Israel..who did not start this most recent action. Nor murder 18 of it's own citizens in retaliation against a threat to their influence.


Iow. attempt to 'change the subject' if your unwilling to admit to the fact that Hamas is a terrorist bunch of murdering thugs.

iow. here you will find what I've noted above...


''Support Hamas? Apologize for them? Then be known as a terrorist.''
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2014 at 16:22
I know for a fact if I were Palestinian, regardless religion, I would consider Israel the aggressor and the terrorist.
They have occupied a great part of Palestinian soil for more than half a century - and to make things even worse - the settlements where they think they have a RIGHT to build new homes.

During WWII - under the German occupation, Danish, Dutch, French, Netherlander etc. freedom-fighters and resistance groups killed informants without trials. 
I'm making no excuse for Hamas - but I guess they are doing what we did under WWII - with the means available today.

Start with the CAUSE for the unrest - make the Israeli leave the occupied land and leave Palestine alone.
Then you have have cause to tell the Palestinians to stop what they are doing - not before.

This is of course simplified - but none the less - it's the core of the problem.

You would think, when you know how the Jews suffered and was hunted, mistreated and killed by the Nazis, that they would have a little more sympathy for the underdog here - but no - no understanding when it concern others.

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Edited by Northman - 23 Aug 2014 at 16:30
   
   If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.    (Albert Einstein)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2014 at 22:55
You have summed it up precisely Northman. The more desperate the conditions are, the more desperate  behavior often becomes. The answer is to roll back the kind of environment that leads to brutality and  conflict, rather than pointing out the latest outrage, and vowing to get even before any more thought is given to things. This just leads to an endless cycle of violence, and we are seeing a classic case in the Middle East.

For that to happen, a just solution must be enacted, not just one that the stronger party feels they can impose due to military force. My bet is that if a reasonable solution to this conflict was accepted by Israel, support for extremists like Hamas would quickly dwindle, and along with it the never ending conflict in the region.
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Arlington View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arlington Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2014 at 00:02
Ref. Northman's comment.

Old hash here.

When all else fails deflect from the terrorists. And resort to obfuscation and distortions of the historical record. And actual representation and presentation of the underlying causes of the conflict by presenting only one viewpoint.

The facts remain the territories occupied were a result of aggression by Arab states losing in a conflict they initiated.

Israel has not been in Gaza since 05. The Sinai since 82. The Heights and the West Bank are occupied for the best of reasons..ongoing Hamas terrorist enclaves and the now rise of ISIS in Syria and the previous action in 67.

As for being summed up nicely...lol what bosh... it and your own words:

''that they would have a little more sympathy for the underdog here...''

and

''I know for a fact if I were Palestinian, regardless religion, I would consider Israel the aggressor and the terrorist.''

does however summarizes one thing clearly.


You should resign your position immediately.


For it is equally clear to me, you would not only support Hamas and it's anti-Semitic genocidal intent, if there. But also their active campaign to murder and suppress counters to their influence and thought in Gaza.

Which is to say you and your cohorts have now clearly identified yourselves not only as Hamas apologists but terrorist supporters as well. Support a terrorist be known as one.

Your type is why these terrorist organizations are emboldened to suppress and persecute minority religions in the region. Restrict democratic principals, deny civil liberties for innocent men and women alike. Advocate and attempt genocides. And inflict murder on innocent civilians to include the 18 'now dead' Palestinians.

Such was the policy, ideology and practice of the Communist thugs under Stalin and the Nazi's under Hitler. You and your like minded rhetoricians are now clearly identified in those camps.

But it's not surprising.

Your's is the repugnant and the unworthy. Your's is the fanatical.

You sicken me.






Edited by Arlington - 24 Aug 2014 at 00:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2014 at 03:35
I can see and understand that arguments put on behalf of both sides, but nothing will ever be obtained if HAMAS continues to attack Israel, whether they believe that they're correct or not.
 
Elimination of HAMAS, imho, would be the first step towards peaceful negotiations between the two, as I believe that Yasser Arafat would have been able to reach that point, had he not been assassinated-and I truly believe he was, and probably by HAMAS.
 
I also agree that Israel has acted with a certain arrogance in settling land considered by Palestine to be its land.
 
This conflict has been going on for far too long, and the UN, again imho, should have stepped in long ago to bring the matter to a peaceful conclusion 
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2014 at 08:28
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

I can see and understand that arguments put on behalf of both sides, but nothing will ever be obtained if HAMAS continues to attack Israel, whether they believe that they're correct or not.
 
Elimination of HAMAS, imho, would be the first step towards peaceful negotiations between the two, as I believe that Yasser Arafat would have been able to reach that point, had he not been assassinated-and I truly believe he was, and probably by HAMAS.
 
I also agree that Israel has acted with a certain arrogance in settling land considered by Palestine to be its land.
 
This conflict has been going on for far too long, and the UN, again imho, should have stepped in long ago to bring the matter to a peaceful conclusion 

Hamas is not likely to get very far this time around. They will run out of rockets, and it will be back to a sullen prison-like existence, sitting in the ruins of destroyed buildings and burying the dead until the next round of unrest, fueled by smuggled arms that are getting increasingly sophisticated. Not a recipe for peace, is it?

I think it is worth noting here that radical organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah only formed long after reasonable attempts to gain redress failed over the years, and alternatives whittled away to nothing. It is exactly the failure to find an end to this conflict that has evolved the extremist attitudes we see today, and the resort to terrorism and brutality. 

I think it has been Israel's big mistake to not come to  a settlement earlier, when they could have had things strongly tilted in their favour. They have pretty much sabotaged any chance of a viable two state solution, and so will be left with a radicalized remnant of the Palestinian population that has no options, other than a quasi prison-like life. Each time around, weapons are gaining in technological ability, and at some point nuclear weapons will come into the mix, to the sorrow of all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2014 at 17:36
Captain:
I agree with you, but even IF Israel took a more conciliatory position, I think that HAMAS would probably interpret it as a sign of weakness and continue it's attacks.
 
Generally, I'm a supporter of Israel, surrounded by Islamic countries, but I think that if it won't/can't somehow come to the negotiating table the UN must step in. It's been placed in the too hard bin for too long, and US vetos on certain proposed actions haven't helped.
 
All I want is to see the end of the killing of innocent civilians-on both sides and the fact that the UN hasn't taken action over the years is appalling.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2014 at 23:27
Arlington...

You prefer to sling mud in my direction with only sporadic attempts to address the issues I raise.
Instead of valid reasoning you broadside with a full load of verbiage with only little content.
I see that as a sign of lack of arguments on your part and a brainwashed attitude with only one direction and altitude - everything not Jewish is the enemy.
I must  confess that I see the world a bit more nuanced.

Since you are unable to express an educated diverse and well thought opinion, I will ask you to refrain in discussions where your only weapon is mudslinging and feeble accusations.

To put it in a language most people would find hard to misunderstand - consider yourself warned for violating the regulations issued in the CoC - specifically the paragraphs for personal attacks.

The rules are simple - Here you can be a Zionist, a Nazi, a radical skinhead or whatever you can think of.... but you CANNOT attack another member, which you did - you can only attack his arguments, which you failed.

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   If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.    (Albert Einstein)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2014 at 12:10
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Captain:
I agree with you, but even IF Israel took a more conciliatory position, I think that HAMAS would probably interpret it as a sign of weakness and continue it's attacks.
 
Generally, I'm a supporter of Israel, surrounded by Islamic countries, but I think that if it won't/can't somehow come to the negotiating table the UN must step in. It's been placed in the too hard bin for too long, and US vetos on certain proposed actions haven't helped.
 
All I want is to see the end of the killing of innocent civilians-on both sides and the fact that the UN hasn't taken action over the years is appalling.

A UN intervention would be a good outcome, and an excellent precedent for the image of international law and justice. It is not going to happen though, for the single reason of the US veto in the security council.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2014 at 12:13
Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Captain:
I agree with you, but even IF Israel took a more conciliatory position, I think that HAMAS would probably interpret it as a sign of weakness and continue it's attacks.
 
Generally, I'm a supporter of Israel, surrounded by Islamic countries, but I think that if it won't/can't somehow come to the negotiating table the UN must step in. It's been placed in the too hard bin for too long, and US vetos on certain proposed actions haven't helped.
 
All I want is to see the end of the killing of innocent civilians-on both sides and the fact that the UN hasn't taken action over the years is appalling.

A UN intervention would be a good outcome, and an excellent precedent for the image of international law and justice. It is not going to happen though, for the single reason of the US veto in the security council.
 
I see your point, but one would imagine that an end to the conflict would be of benefit to all concerned.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2014 at 02:45
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

 
I see your point, but one would imagine that an end to the conflict would be of benefit to all concerned.

It would depend on what terms. Any sort of dispassionate, non-biased view that took both Jewish and Arab rights and concerns into consideration would not, at the present time anyway, be accepted by Israel, and by extension then not by the US. And so an end is not necessarily favoured by either the US or Israel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2014 at 04:50
In my opinion, and I may be wrong, the main problem is the tactics. Palestinians should read Ghandi. If they had used the Ghandi approach to revolution is very likely they had achieved more  than what they got by using terrorism. Palestinians embraced terrorism since the 60s, with plane hijacking, random attacks, human bombs and now rocket shut at random. All that has put them in a position that is hard to defend, and that make hard for others to support them.


Edited by pinguin - 26 Aug 2014 at 04:53
A point of view from the antipodes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2014 at 06:11
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

In my opinion, and I may be wrong, the main problem is the tactics. Palestinians should read Ghandi. If they had used the Ghandi approach to revolution is very likely they had achieved more  than what they got by using terrorism. Palestinians embraced terrorism since the 60s, with plane hijacking, random attacks, human bombs and now rocket shut at random. All that has put them in a position that is hard to defend, and that make hard for others to support them.
 
Welcome back mate.
 
I agree with what you've said. But many countries have resorted to what opposition has labelled terrorism in order to achieve their goals.
I often wonder why I try.
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