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haplogroup iranian kurdish tribes

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2010 at 14:22
Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

Originally posted by calvo calvo wrote:

Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

There is no need to read Greek and Roman descriptions for that. Scythian mummies founded in Siberia have fair skin and blond hair, literally.


Interesting..., but aren't Ossetians the direct descendants of Samartians? Few of them are blond though and many have slight Mongoloid features.
They could be "linguistic" rather than blood descendants though.
 
Actually, there are blond Ossetians. And, secondly, genetically, Ossetians are rather native Caucasians than direct descendants of Sarmatians. They are probably linguistic descendants. But, Ossetian language is, actually, quite unique and very remote from any other Iranic language. It's affinity with other Iranic languages is mainly based on the vocabularly and limited grammatical features, while in fact, Iranic vocabularly doesn't form a majoriy in Ossetian language lexicon. Grammatically, it's even doesn't look like an Indoeuropean language it's agglunative. To me, it actually, looks and sounds more like a Turkic or Caucasian language.


Genetically, Iranians are also largely native (i.e. with ancestry largely from pre-Iranic Iran) and the Persian vocabulary is sometimes heavily loaded with Semitic grammar and more often words, though that doesn't make it Semitic. I could speak Persian and make it sound like a Semitic, Turkish, Slavic, Indian or Romance language to a non-speaker whilst it is completely comprehensible to a native speaker.  In fact the Azeri Persian accent sounds like Turkish if you don't bother listening.

What languages 'sound like' bears very little relevance on what they are.

Additionally, you miss out the fact that Ossetian is classed as an Eastern Iranian Language with its closest modern relative being Pashtun, also Eastern Iranian.  It is a fact that modern Persian is derived from Old Persian, and likewise I believe that modern Pashtun is derived from Scytho-Bactrian of which Ossetian is a distinguishable, though albeit, corrupted remnant.


Edited by Zagros - 12 Jan 2010 at 14:24
"There was glory in pissing, Corabb decided as he watched the stream curve out and make that familiar but unique sound as it hit the ground." So true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kalhor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2010 at 14:39
the parthian influence is also  more credible than others, because they lived in much more northern part of empire which climate is colder and sun is not strong  there. if we look att statues of parthian soldiers or sasanid statues in kermanshah we can defintely see the  the physical resemblance  to the local population, but majority more that 90% of people in kermanshahan have all those nice features, but not blue eyes nor blond hair. they have broad shoulder , broad face big beautiful dark eyes and dark hair.

Edited by kalhor - 12 Jan 2010 at 14:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2010 at 15:55
Originally posted by kalhor kalhor wrote:

  in all civilasation people have been mixed with other peoples. the celts  and germans are the most known tribe which had those physical shape  blue eyes and blond or red hair, about my crediblity . i don't like to have a crediblity which is only  based on reading some historical books and reapiting them like a parrot!
 
Yeah, according to you getting some nonsense out of nobody knows where and repeating it is fine. "Historical books" are much better and reliable than that.
 
Originally posted by kalhor kalhor wrote:

 without verifying sceintifically the matter.  
 
Did you "scientifically verify" that some Iranian groups originated from Celts and Vikings or what?
 
Originally posted by kalhor kalhor wrote:

 history is writen by man some events are marked and some events are not mentioned and some are very false too.as i said it is my own observation that those blond iranians have very similar feature too the celts and geografically it is not impossible such a mix .
 
I just don't understand that u think that "georaphically it's not impossible"  that Celts (that never lived in Iran according to all the historical sources we know of and that "parrots" are repeating in your words) could mix with Iranians and influenced Iranian genetic pool, while blond and fair skinned Scythians that did in fact lived in Iran can't? It just looks like a "Celtomania obsession" from the outside.
 
Originally posted by kalhor kalhor wrote:

  finally i don't know why you are mad on me i usually do not insult or attack peoples verbaly. i just wanted to know more . it is just all.
 
Did I call you something or "insulted" you? I don't get it, sorry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2010 at 16:20
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:



Genetically, Iranians are also largely native (i.e. with ancestry largely from pre-Iranic Iran) and the Persian vocabulary is sometimes heavily loaded with Semitic grammar and more often words, though that doesn't make it Semitic. I could speak Persian and make it sound like a Semitic, Turkish, Slavic, Indian or Romance language to a non-speaker whilst it is completely comprehensible to a native speaker.  In fact the Azeri Persian accent sounds like Turkish if you don't bother listening.

What languages 'sound like' bears very little relevance on what they are.

Additionally, you miss out the fact that Ossetian is classed as an Eastern Iranian Language with its closest modern relative being Pashtun, also Eastern Iranian.  It is a fact that modern Persian is derived from Old Persian, and likewise I believe that modern Pashtun is derived from Scytho-Bactrian of which Ossetian is a distinguishable, though albeit, corrupted remnant.
 
I can make Russian sound anything as well. But if you compare pronouncation of Iranic languages including Pashto, Talysh, Tat etc. they sound alike and not like Ossetian. The fact is that Ossettian language has only 20% of Iranic vocabularly, 20% Turkic, 50% Caucasian and the rest from the other languages. And it's agglunative language, unlike all the Indoeuropean languages. So, it's very unique. Some linguists call it a "substrate" language which is a language that can only conventionally classified as definitely belonging to a certain linguistic group. And also for Ossetians, studying Caucasian languages is much easier than any Iranian language.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2010 at 16:46
Do you have a source for that break-down?  Because if it is true then why is it even classed as an Iranic language?  It has been classified by experts in philology and linguists not forum amateurs.

What is the etymology behind Iron and Digor?
"There was glory in pissing, Corabb decided as he watched the stream curve out and make that familiar but unique sound as it hit the ground." So true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kalhor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2010 at 16:50
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thanks for your kindness and greatness of sprit and politenessBig smile.  it sounds too  much iranian to meWinkwhat i said: it is possible that those thing  maybe occured that is not a historical fact nor sceintifical evidence and it is why  i said i wish some DNA  tests could be done to see if that klash girl is of iranian stock or belongs to other ethnic groups. i am not professor of history nor have pretention like you do. and it is not celtomania nor germanomania . if iranian had been mixed with  elamit, sumerian , jews,enshanian, greeks, later mongol, arabs , turc from asia. then it is possible they have been mixed in a little amount with other people which has those racial form and shapes like that klash girl. not only me ,but many others can hardely beleive that of a  massive population  of aryans in iran and india which have both common aryan ancestors and often same haplogroup R1a1 are all have been altered to olive skin dark eyed people  by being mixed with non aryans and only a very few individuals had been left in some hidden pocket  have preserved those racial shapes which has been original aryan!!that girl on the picture looks very north european to me rather than iranian or indian.if that amount of aryan people had become dark skined dark haired, then why not those a very very few individues  like that klash girl did not? i am asking question and want an answer not individual attacks. the individual attacks are often result of lack of knowledge or being biased.


Edited by kalhor - 12 Jan 2010 at 17:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2010 at 17:14
I don't want to attack you individually. The Kalasha girl looks like this because Kalashas live in distant mountainous regions of Pakistan and they didn't mixed to much with other people. That's why they preserved some unique original features that the other Iranics might have lost due to the mixtures with other people.
 
 
Why do you think it's highly believable?  In Iran, of course, Northern Iranic nomadic invaders have been mixing with local "Armenoid" population. That's why most Turks, Azeri and Iranians belong to the same kind of racial type. But there are still some genetic traces left from other people which occasionally show up. But in order, to find out where those traces could come from one should look at the historical information we know. We know, for example, that Scythian did have those features both from historical accounts and archeological evidence. So, it's most likely that they were the source of it. So, it doesn't make sense to dig for some Germans and Celts when answer is on the surface. Of course, somehow a small group of Celts and Germans could sneak into Iran in some ancient times. But statistical probability that they left a substantive genetical trace there is just very minimal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2010 at 17:29
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Do you have a source for that break-down? 
 
I think 20% is from the book of Abaev who is the biggest authority on the subject. The other numbers are from other Russian sources I read. I'll try to find out more or less scientific article in English on the subject and post it here.
 
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Because if it is true then why is it even classed as an Iranic language?  It has been classified by experts in philology and linguists not forum amateurs.

I think it's mainly because of the preserved grammatical features of the grammar, like it's believed that old Persian cases survived in Ossetian. But other than that, I do not know. Perhaps, it would be better to put it into a separate group. But this question is very policized...

Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

What is the etymology behind Iron and Digor?
 
Iron - two theories. 1 (obviousl) coming from "Arya," but it's criticized by many scholars including Abaev who believed that, 2 it probably comes from the historical region of the Central Cacucasus called "Irkhan"
 
Digor - unclear, but most likely comes as another designation for Circassianse a-dyg-e. The root Dig in Digor comes from that Dyg - Circassian.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kalhor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2010 at 17:42
I agree that this possibilitiy exists that a pocket of people could be genetically preserved in very remote areas, but still if they are of same origin of the rest of indian or pakistani population , then after many thousend years of living in sunny climate shoulden't they  become more altered and have other colour of skin snd eyes ? the sami peoples in sweden are of asian origin and speaking finn. uguric language . they are original population of far north , they have been here far before indo-eurpean svea and goths arrived. the  great majority of them have both  blue eyes and blond hair even they have often mongolid  facial shape. i have learnt in biology that colour of hair and eyes are very dependent of amount of sun and people with pale skin are orginated from places with little sunlight.i wish i could send some pictures of sami people to the forum, but i don't know how.if the original iranian had blue eyes and pale skin ,then they ought to come from far north or somewhere with very little sunlight. are iranian people comming from far north? i don't know . are there any archeological evidence that iranian before imigrating to iran have lived in far north or misty landscape with very little sunlight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2010 at 18:39
The differences you're talking about take 10th of thousands years to appear. 3 and even 4 thousand years isn't enough. There are black people who live in Canada now and they're not transforming into whites. And there are whites that live in South Africa and they are not transforming into blacks. Perhaps, they will but in some 25 thousand years.
As for Scythian and Iranic people, it's believed that they came from the region that is now Southern Ukraine and Russia (North to the Black Sea) and Central Asia (somwhere around modern Kazakhstan, Southern Siberia).
 
Sami people have Europoid features because they mixed with Scandinavians. If you follow to the East to see the indiginous people of Russia that are related to Sami you would see that they are clearly Mongoloid, Sami just had been more exposed to contacts with Europoids that's why they changed.
 
I don't know whether original Iranians where blondes with blue eyes or not, but it's pretty certain that many Iranic speaking tribes and other similar IE tribes like Tocharians did have fair skin, blond hair and light eyes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kalhor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2010 at 19:33
fair skin and brown hair is somewhat not the same as being blond with blue eyes. many south europeans like italian, spanish and southern france and germans and central european have rather fair skin and dark brown to even black hair and so does the great part of iranian population too. the question rises when some rare individues in iran  look like scandinavian and north europeans.  scandinavian are related to germans and austrians and germans are not all blond or  as blond and blue eyed as scandinavian.
 the finns are  mostley finn-ugric with haplogroup different from  swedes and norvegians and danes, and nearly all blond and blue eyed  if racial mixing would cause change of hair and eye's colour among many hundred millions of iranians and indians then at least ½ of finnish people should kept   dark skin and dark hair like ugric people in sibiria.if it would be because of  indo-european  mix then  they should have  kept some black hair  and dark eyes too , but it is very rare to find a finn with dark eyes or dark hair. it is same about hungrian with both asian ethnic and langustic origin and they have come to europe rather late during hun invasion. frankly i don't know why it is so , but  it seems people in some area devlope more  blue eyes  than the other places. after all having blue eyes is a mutation and very recessive and people of mix origin often tend to have dark eyes rather than blue.


Edited by kalhor - 12 Jan 2010 at 19:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2010 at 19:51
It seems I saw this thread a little bit late...

Having light skin or Caucasian feature is not something rare in Iran. We mostly see half of adults in Iran's streets (women are covered). Half of my cousins have lighter feature (light skin, light brown hair, light eyes) and I don't think there is any European influence in Iranian gene pool specially from where I come from; there are theories of Scythian and Parthian Origins but noting non-Iranic. Another thing I have observed in northern and western Iran is the blond hair kids who turn very dark brown when they become adults and I have no clue for that, a good example of this is two of my cousins and one of my childhood friend who was Kurd from Mahabad.

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Edited by Suren - 12 Jan 2010 at 19:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kalhor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2010 at 20:25
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 i agree with you and this fenomen that kids are more lighter in colour and we have exactly the same  fenomena in our family very light hair and often blue or green eyes at birth then changing of colour is comming gradually and when they are adult the boys look like the famous singer shahram nazeri typically kurdishBig smile  . my daughter was born with green blue eyes and very light hair but a year later the colour of eyes changed to hazel and some years later the colour of hair to dark brown!!!it is a very common thing and i believe . because the dark colour is genitically  more dominant, but i suspect  there are many other factores too. maybe it is a kind of genetic adaption to sunny climate which people have devloped to survive the bright sunlight or maybe the food and environmental factors like minerals in earth have some thing to do with that. who knows


Edited by kalhor - 12 Jan 2010 at 21:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2010 at 20:53
Originally posted by kalhor kalhor wrote:

 the finns are  mostley finn-ugric with haplogroup different from  swedes and norvegians and danes, and nearly all blond and blue eyed  if racial mixing would cause change of hair and eye's colour among many hundred millions of iranians and indians then at least ½ of finnish people should kept   dark skin and dark hair like ugric people in sibiria.
 
What you base your calculationon? You just making up a formula without any basis behind. At least... What you mean by "at least"?
 
Originally posted by kalhor kalhor wrote:

if it would be because of  indo-european  mix then  they should have  kept some black hair  and dark eyes too , but it is very rare to find a finn with dark eyes or dark hair.
 
In fact there are Finns with dark features and even with Mongoloid facial type and high check bones. Finns are simply heavily mixed with Baltic tribes and Scandinavians. It's very possible that if there was no Russian annexation of Finland they all would speak Swedish now.
 
Also Finno-Ugric people are not necessarily Mongoloid, many Finno-Ugric ethnicities are originally of Europoid type.
 
 
Originally posted by kalhor kalhor wrote:

it is same about hungrian with both asian ethnic and langustic origin and they have come to europe rather late during hun invasion.
 
Hungarians didn't come to Europe during Hun invasion. They came later.  And their genetic pool is mostly Slavic. In fact their predominant genetic haplogroup R1a is common with Slavic people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kalhor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2010 at 21:09
i base it uopn the haplogroup researches the haplogroup N is common in finland while the haplogroup R1a1 and R1b is dominant in sweden and norway. please make a search on internet before experessing your self so arrogant like that. finnish haplogroups are following
N3(58%)  I(29%) R1a(7,5) and R1b(3,5). have you been in finland to see how many people have dark eyes???i have met thousends of finns in sweden not yet a single with black eyes with exception of finnish gipsys which are very dark haired and some even very dark skined.
i don't like your arrogant manner !!! don't force me to become rude like yourself. rudness is not a virtueAngry do you talk with everybody like that?
sorry i haven't heard that ogur turc was a slavic nation before??? ConfusedShocked


Edited by kalhor - 12 Jan 2010 at 21:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2010 at 22:00

LOL

Read my post before writing...
 
Finno-Ugric Hungarians mixed with Slavs in Pannonia, very hard to understand, right?  You would like it more with Celts and Vikings, probably. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kalhor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2010 at 22:19
what is wrong with celts or vikings??? i  have both  celts(english-irish) and vikings(swedes) in my family and living with them and find nothing wrong with them  they are POLITE and civilised and  i see that they have many thing in common with iranians both cultural and lingustic. they are very lovely and not rude att all. . from which country  are you ?
did you know that  the swedish national dishes(ärtsoppa) is what we cal ABGOSHT in iran and nearly all kind of breads in iran like taftoon lavash are common in sweden which i have never seen in any other european country!!!?? reading some books do not make you a professor Tongue please admit sarmatians no more existsLOL and history of king arthur was just a legendWink


Edited by kalhor - 12 Jan 2010 at 22:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2010 at 22:36
Originally posted by kalhor kalhor wrote:

  reading some books do not make you a professor Tongue 
 
 
And your point is..?  BTW I'm not a professor. But reading books improves you general level of intellect. Think about it... Big smile
 
 
Originally posted by kalhor kalhor wrote:

  please admit sarmatians no more existsLOL and history of king arthur was just a legendWink
 
 
Right, and to make you happy, the Celtic legend. Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2010 at 22:49
Reading some books might not make someone a professor, and reading no books makes someone a babbling incoherent dolt.
"There was glory in pissing, Corabb decided as he watched the stream curve out and make that familiar but unique sound as it hit the ground." So true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kalhor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2010 at 23:05
you need some  more practical exprience only reading historical books may rise a little bit!! your intelect, but only in practic by traveling and meeting other culture and races you can make a use of it and can verify the truth in historical books. what you call intlect could be eaffected negatively by getting   wrong information.  you should be able to question the things not only base your knowledge on what a historian has written .
one exemple is the name persian gulf was sudenly altered to arabian gulf and even national geographic society used this name because an arab rich sheikh paid for that. what you call facts in the books are very negociableWink. like the fact writen by greek historians about their brave wariors.Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2010 at 23:26
This discussion has almost been like debating with a less eloquent and possibly even more deranged and fickle Cyrus. Scary stuff.
"There was glory in pissing, Corabb decided as he watched the stream curve out and make that familiar but unique sound as it hit the ground." So true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kalhor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2010 at 23:43
no reading too much selected books can make somebody fundamentalist.  historian which  believes every thing outside of those  historical book he has read are not correct and he should never put under question anythingWacko herodot said that and it is 100% truth and should never been put  them under the question. it seems fundamentalism is not only a religious fenomena!!!Big smile it has become a kind of culture!!

Nothing is known directly of the movements of the colonial expedition sent out by Ambicatus to the east. Around this time, however, Celtic settlements appeared along the lower Danube and in parts of the Balkans. By 369 B.C. the Gaulish population of the region was strong enough for Celtic mercenaries to play a notable part in the Peloponnesian War.

From then on, Celts were regularly employed by the Greeks, both in their own civil wars and against their neighbors to the east. In 335 B.C. a delegation of Celts from the Adriatic paid court to Alexander the Great, who asked whether it were true that their people feared nothing. "Only," they replied, "that the sky might fall."

sorry i diden't find that by myself it is writen in one of books which is surely not approved by youBig smile

by the way i have read that those kalash in pakistan believe themselves that they are decendents of alexandr's armyLOL



Edited by kalhor - 13 Jan 2010 at 00:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2010 at 01:04
Kalhor, Sarmat is one of our respected members. I have followed some of your discussion with Sarmat and Zagros which shows some typical approach from history lovers and those who are looking for answers. Here in AE we have many professional historians and well educated members who we are proud of. These individuals give AE credibility and make it a reliable forum, not like any ordinary history forum. In AE it is important to use reliable sources if you are discussing a serious matter with a professional. Using random theories which have no base or very weak points as your proofs is not going to help you and many members question you left and right. We had many cases before and all of those members ended up living this forum or getting banned. Many Iranian, Armenian, Turk, Macedonian, Greek, Indian, Afghan, .... nationalists, racists, xenophobe.... the list will go on and on.
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Edited by Suren - 13 Jan 2010 at 01:06
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" Zoroaster.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kalhor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2010 at 01:39
 from the what i exprienced i can understand why people are leaving this forum after a short knowledge of it. it is a pitty that a forum , becomes a place without tolerance for  new ideas and specially lack of politeness and propper manner of some of members, i have never insulted or attacked anyone, but instead of getting answer to my questions i got plenty of arrogance and insults without any reason.it is  frankely the most strange forum i have seen on internet. i can't really understand this kind of reaction. I believe any theory even not a solid one should be studied instead of rejected. some time historical events have not been recordeed properly and later science provs that they were wrong.  calling people dranged or this and that only stupid arrogant people saying  the things like that a well educated man  use somewhat a better manner. i have never called some body  for dranged or things like that.

Edited by kalhor - 13 Jan 2010 at 02:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2010 at 06:33
Originally posted by kalhor kalhor wrote:

Nothing is known directly of the movements of the colonial expedition sent out by Ambicatus to the east. Around this time, however, Celtic settlements appeared along the lower Danube and in parts of the Balkans. By 369 B.C. the Gaulish population of the region was strong enough for Celtic mercenaries to play a notable part in the Peloponnesian War.

From then on, Celts were regularly employed by the Greeks, both in their own civil wars and against their neighbors to the east. In 335 B.C. a delegation of Celts from the Adriatic paid court to Alexander the Great, who asked whether it were true that their people feared nothing. "Only," they replied, "that the sky might fall."

sorry i diden't find that by myself it is writen in one of books which is surely not approved by youBig smile

by the way i have read that those kalash in pakistan believe themselves that they are decendents of alexandr's armyLOL

Again, you jump to conclusions. I don't have anything against what you presented. But did this book also said that Alexander took Celts with him to Persian Empire and resettled them there...
 
No book says this. And that's your problem. You like your theory, but when the historical facts do not agree with you start to get angry...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2010 at 06:41
Originally posted by kalhor kalhor wrote:

 from the what i exprienced i can understand why people are leaving this forum after a short knowledge of it. it is a pitty that a forum , becomes a place without tolerance for  new ideas and specially lack of politeness and propper manner of some of members, i have never insulted or attacked anyone, but instead of getting answer to my questions i got plenty of arrogance and insults without any reason.it is  frankely the most strange forum i have seen on internet. i can't really understand this kind of reaction. I believe any theory even not a solid one should be studied instead of rejected. some time historical events have not been recordeed properly and later science provs that they were wrong.  calling people dranged or this and that only stupid arrogant people saying  the things like that a well educated man  use somewhat a better manner. i have never called some body  for dranged or things like that.
 
Sorry, if you thought that but nobody wants to insult you here. I might have been a bit sarcastic about your posts but I don't want to insult you. Excuse me I was misunderstood.
 
But, it would be great if you could also review your posts, then you would see that you also presented yourself in a very arrogant manner. You also mentioned that you need answers but when people try to answer your questions based on what they read in historical books, you call them parrots...
 
And also we are historical forum. So, we try to discuss history from objective historical facts that we are aware about.
 
However, we have a wonderful place in the forum where unorthodox ideas can be discussed as well. You migh like it
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kalhor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2010 at 11:45
when i asked this question. i had no intention to make any conclusion   because for coming to a conclusion a real solid historic and sceintific substance  and evidence is needed not just some popular history books or tv programs. 
the rubric was kurdish tribes haplogroups.
 why i asked that because i have worked in pharmacy and studied pharmacy in many years and today with the help of gen-technic more precise medicins are developed. many diseases have a herditary pattern and many medicins do not  give the same result in different parts of the world and different genetic groups. some people despite high intake of animal fat do not develope heart diseases (like eskimos) and other can get sick of it. 
my goal is not racistic  it is simply to know more about the genetic origin of people not to rise a 4th rischBig smile.
unfortunately the question is still not answered.Unhappy
the honorable zagros mentioned that he has haplogroup R1b. which called me for a dranged fickleAngry
R1b is very common in celtic countries.
as i send to you some sentences above from the book (HISTORY OF CELTS). telling that celts have been used widely as mercenary forces by greeks in polepenisian war  farbefore the alexander attacked persia
 these are not my writing nor conclusion
because i have read that before about aexander's  genetic heritage.in middle east.
none is my own conclusion again.many peoples in afghanistan believe they have some greek blood and in some extence it has been proved by DNA test at least among pathans and pakistanies.
that dosen't make pakistaies greek .
 thanks lord people have been mixed around the world otherwise humanity had suffered a lot from inbreeding.
finally i am not a kid i am at my nearly 60's and frankly do not appreciate. rud comments and don't use them.
best regards


Edited by kalhor - 13 Jan 2010 at 12:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2010 at 14:20
Ok, let us leave the negative emotions aside and have a civilized discussion. I also agree with you that it's good that people have been mixing with each other it gives us diversity that we have now and at the same time makes us think about our roots and finally understand that humanity is all one family.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seko- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2010 at 16:16
Kalhor before you go on predicting the fate of this forum I suggest that you read the Codes of Conduct and heed Sarmats words. Arrogance and alternative history has it's place (even in our forum) yet not in Ethnicity and Genetics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2010 at 12:09
Just a question out of curiosity: has genetic studies revealed any relation between the ancient Iranic people and the modern Slavic people of Eastern Europe?
I mean, that modern Slavic people could be the genetic descendants of Scythians and Samartians, but the linguistic descendants of proto-Slavs.
It's curious, because nowadays the popular perception of Slavs and Iranians is very different.
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