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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paradigm of Humanity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2013 at 06:35
Originally posted by kaysu kaysu wrote:

Thank you PoH, I will read it with great interest.  I know what you mean about diversity of culture -- sort of like the "American" culture -- a bit of everything. 
Yes, I guess... We are like the United States of Eurasia, there is little common among Turks other than religion and later language. Each part of the country resembles closest neighbour country more than other parts of the country. My place looks more like part of Caucasia because of mountainous terrain and languages spoken. Southestearn parts look like Syria - desert, clothings and cousin, Thracians and Aegans-Aegans actually have a hybrid culture between Thracians and Mediterreneans imo- more like Balkan people, Mediterrenean coasts - sun, beach and lots of olive trees- like other Mediterreneans etc... Cultures, cousins and dialects are all very different.

By the way, just think about this a bit: put your pencil on Portugal and start drawing a line to India, you'll very likely reach India without drawing on any non-Indo European language spoken country except Turkey. Of course, I assume you are not clumsy enough to step on Basqs and Magyars. Don't you wonder where did all those I-E language speakers of Asia Minor go? Wink

Originally posted by kaysu kaysu wrote:

 
Do you work on a military base there?  Seems like you are interested in everything military.

No, I've nothing to do with military. Once I had considered military high school (and later military academy) at past but I instead went to a science-heavy high school. The Turkish military at time was very intolerant againts religion, every year they were kicking like 300+ officers for things like not drinking alchool, praying or officer's wife wearing a headscarf etc. and I have religious sensitivities. There was a lot more other things that were going on the military influenced my decision to not join.

Anyway, all men more or less obsessed with power. That's why men like powerful computers and weapons. Quite a number of guys here just plotting their way to their very own galactic empire Tongue


Edited by Paradigm of Humanity - 06 Apr 2013 at 06:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kaysu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2013 at 07:06
My 2nd husband (deceased) was persian-kurdish and I lived there for four years, so I speak a bit of Farsi, an I-E language as you know.  (Also,you look like my 37-year-old son Aziz).
 
Regarding your comments:
Anyway, all men more or less obsessed with power. That's why men like powerful computers and weapons. Quite a number of guys here just plotting their way to their very own galactic empire Tongue
 
Pardon me for pulling age on you, but say "people" instead of "men."  I think it is wonderful that so many young people can busy their hands on the keyboard to create virtual empires (if they need such a thing), rather than use their hands on guns to create empires.  Soon I hope all people will evolve past such primitive, dark yearnings.
 
I worked for many years as senior staff to members of the US Senate and House of Representatives in Washington, DC.  In that capacity in 1975 I chose the very first women to join our five U.S. military academies.  Thumbs Up  Unfortunately, women are just as blood-thirsty as men, and being a pacifist, I do not think back on this very fondly. Thumbs Down Regards to you and all yours so far away.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paradigm of Humanity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2013 at 07:53
That's because United States military almost always involves in unjustifiable military agressions. When soldiers actually become aware that they are not fighting for freedom or anything ethical, they are not going to accept possibility of getting killed so easily for practically nothing. Therefore, United States military (which is the one of world's leading instutions on psycological research) dehumanises its own soldiers by training, so they'll care less about what's going to happen to them and dehumanises "enemy" by indoctrination, so they do not hesitate to kill. This is not a good way raise soldiers but a good way to raise war criminals who even will rape his own countrywomen that in service of US military.

Well, world's first female combat aircraft pilot was Turkish. She gladly bombed women and children in Dersim Massacre. But of course women are definetely not violent nor hungry for power as much as men. There are small amounts of masculinized females who had forgotten of feminine virtues like compassion, forgiveness and modesty. And they always try to overdo because they feel themselves lack. That's why masculenised females are so dangerous. Women generally tend to see things in black and white terms too. Dangerous combination I say. Worst period of human right abuses after Kemalist's happened in Turkey during a female Prime Minister's period and she is directly responsible from that.





Edited by Paradigm of Humanity - 07 Apr 2013 at 03:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kaysu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2013 at 08:54
I agree with you on much.  I would love to share more which I'm sure you would find interesting.  How can I chat privately with you?  I think that would be kinder to the game developer whose space we are eating up.  Can you give me permission for private chat?  You are so very interesting!  AND you look just  like my son, who is so far away and I can't chat with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paradigm of Humanity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2013 at 09:10
Of course, gladly Smile Private chat function is just at top left of forum page. I'll send a private message right now and you'll see it at top left as "1 New messages".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lao Tse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 05:08
@kaysu: Ok, I translated the saying Big smile
 
"It is never wise to disrespect family elders, especially the very oldest and weakest of us all. For although Great-Grandmother's Frailty of Life requires a walking stick, she can still knock you on your ass with it." went to " Bu zun jia ting zhangbei, zui te bie shilao hezui wei ruowo menquan bu zong wei shi ming zhi de. Wei, sui ransheng huozeng zu mude cuiruo yao qiu yi guai gun, ta ke yi reng ran qiaonin ninte yu tade lvzi de."
 
Then theres the traditional and simplified character script (for some reason the pinyin with accents doesn't work very well, so I'm just seeing if you want the other options, just in case)
 
Traditional: 不尊重家庭長輩,最特別是老和最微弱我們全部從未是明智的。為,雖然生活曾祖母的脆弱要求一拐棍,她可以仍然敲您您的與它的驢子的。
 
Simplified: 不尊重家庭长辈,最特别是老和最微弱我们全部从未是明智的。为,虽然生活曾祖母的脆弱要求一拐棍,她可以仍然敲您您的与它的驴子的。
 
 
It's strange, when the government simplified the characters in China, they appaerently liked a lot of the characters so much they left them. Only a few characters in this saying changed.
在財富的害處,而是一件好事永遠不持續。我在和平中仅居住在新的風下。 Wei Jia Hong No harm in wealth, but a good thing doesn't last forever. I live only among peace under
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kaysu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 08:40
Thank you SO MUCH DFLT (dear friend Lao Tse).  You are a peach pie.  You translated a real saying going back many generations in our family.  For at least 400 years we have been pacifists.  One ancestor told a supreme military commander (it is on record) "Our family will always stand in defense of our nation, not with weapons, but with shovels."  And we did, always trying to do our duty but in ways that did not result in injuring or killing other people. We built fortifications and economies instead.  My businessman father explained that peaceful people need an armor of humor -- which we also respect.  Dad taught us that humor celebrates human dignity but can also disarm an enemy quickly.  I guess that works with stinky classmates or in business, or mean people on facebook (my purpose).  Not quite sure I'd want to throw a funny joke at a pissed-off soldier with a big gun, though.  What about you?  Just to be sure, your translation is Mandarin, correct?  And you mentioned a government -- is that PRC, Taiwan, or elsewhere?  I have a great love for people and history, so please share whatever you like with me, especially family stories.  One of the most important and inspirational people in my childhood was my high school teacher of Mandarin, who left PRC before it was PRC.  You didn't by any chance teach Mandarin at Vestal High School in New York, did you?  That would be so freaking karmic it would shake my bones.  Again, thank you dear friend Lao Tse.
Bei Mai Hwa
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kaysu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 08:49
Lao Tse:  Also, regarding your motto:
No harm in wealth, but a good thing doesn't last forever. I live only among peace
 
Why did you drop the ending, that was something like:  "under new winds."  The motto is really beautiful, but I also loved it with "under new winds."  That really describes the lives so many in our big human family these days.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lao Tse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 09:14
I think the character limit went haywire, I'll check on it. I had it originally in pinyin but it cut too close to the limit so i put in characters, and I think it deleted the end too.
在財富的害處,而是一件好事永遠不持續。我在和平中仅居住在新的風下。 Wei Jia Hong No harm in wealth, but a good thing doesn't last forever. I live only among peace under
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kaysu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 09:47
DFLT:  A very wise elderly man once said:  "There is nothing in life leading to greater tragedy than character limits going haywire.....except for eating too many hot dogs."  I don't remember who it was, but I'm sure he said it.  And I'm sure he will stick to what he said, no matter what it was, if he did say it.  Or if he didn't.  He will stick to it.  What he said.  Or didn't.  Must've been Romney.
 
Thank you dear friend.
 
Kaysu, Saamigirl
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lao Tse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 11:03
LOL So wise of a saying. Atleast the help desk was able to help. All I had to do was get rid of a few things that weren't really needed. I guess the character limit changed
在財富的害處,而是一件好事永遠不持續。我在和平中仅居住在新的風下。 Wei Jia Hong No harm in wealth, but a good thing doesn't last forever. I live only among peace under
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lao Tse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 12:22
Originally posted by kaysu kaysu wrote:

Thank you SO MUCH DFLT (dear friend Lao Tse).  You are a peach pie.  You translated a real saying going back many generations in our family.  For at least 400 years we have been pacifists.  One ancestor told a supreme military commander (it is on record) "Our family will always stand in defense of our nation, not with weapons, but with shovels."  And we did, always trying to do our duty but in ways that did not result in injuring or killing other people. We built fortifications and economies instead.  My businessman father explained that peaceful people need an armor of humor -- which we also respect.  Dad taught us that humor celebrates human dignity but can also disarm an enemy quickly.  I guess that works with stinky classmates or in business, or mean people on facebook (my purpose).  Not quite sure I'd want to throw a funny joke at a pissed-off soldier with a big gun, though.  What about you?  Just to be sure, your translation is Mandarin, correct?  And you mentioned a government -- is that PRC, Taiwan, or elsewhere?  I have a great love for people and history, so please share whatever you like with me, especially family stories.  One of the most important and inspirational people in my childhood was my high school teacher of Mandarin, who left PRC before it was PRC.  You didn't by any chance teach Mandarin at Vestal High School in New York, did you?  That would be so freaking karmic it would shake my bones.  Again, thank you dear friend Lao Tse.
Bei Mai Hwa
 
 
No problem at all, atleast you didn't want it translated from Latin Smile, and yes it's Mandarin.
 
I wish your saying reached my family 400 years ago, it may have prevented A LOT of trouble, but my family had been selected by the Han Empire to be a "Soldier Family", meaning that if the nation were ever to go to war, our family would always be one of the many to lose at least one of the males in the line would be called up for arms while a lot of other families were selected to ONLY farm and produce goods for trade and the military. I guess the nations that took over the area after the Han agreed that we were better soldiers than scholars (although we did have a few smart enough and willing to take the 9-Ranked exam to become an official), so we were a war clan for well over a millineum, almost 2.
 
What I meant by "If/when the government collapsed" was that, in my family's history, whenever we got a lucky official out of the family, they wrote everything that was legal for them to write, including several manuscripts (still translating some of them, the Ming Dictionary and Kangxi Dictionary are proven harder to translate to modern Mandarin and then Manchu, followed by English. It has been common in China to have several ruling households at a time, but in the later of my family's somewhat pre-designated seat in low governments, the increased threat of foregn influence and hostile take-over became a larger reality than ever ( the 8 nations: Italy, Russia, Germany, Great Britain, France, Spain [still had small holds in tea companies], and the United States [the only nation that didn't supply troops during the Boxer's Rebellion, they were busy in the Phillipines and Hawaii] did take over many parts of the Aisin Gioro Da Qing Empire, mostly on the coast, but my family saw this useful in the future, thanks to German influence in Nanjing saving my niece and many other civilians). The luck was that my great-grandfather didn't live long enough to see the rebellion, or the fall of the empire, or we would've left earlier and I would be unable to see what I have seen. but our fears were realised when Chiang Kai Shek found out that in the 1930s we were still wearing sonochos and believing that Cixi was still living, beyond the age of 100. That day was a nightmare, we had a shortage on food and were expected to feed hundreds of soldiers and they made us un-tie and cut our hair, which was, with the soldiers themselves cutting the hair, was absolutely a nightmare, not to mention that our religion and belief of the Qing were said to be obsolete. But anyways, we lived on, for the most part.
 
I wish I taught in New York, they would've been better students than my students in the Phillipines LOL If you can imagine a 13 year old farmer-child with emerald-green eyes, who barely spoke Japanese teaching a group of people twice his age how to speak Japanese, then you pretty much get my picture. I was the one who had to teach in a stuffy room while everyone else in my group (we were all friends from the "orientation" in Manchuria, and my cousin stayed in the group tuntil the Khabarovsk affair, where almost all of us were divided) got to live with air-conditioning in the money-press building, except in the barracks where we all had to deal with hot, stuffy rooms.


Edited by Lao Tse - 07 Apr 2013 at 23:27
在財富的害處,而是一件好事永遠不持續。我在和平中仅居住在新的風下。 Wei Jia Hong No harm in wealth, but a good thing doesn't last forever. I live only among peace under
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kaysu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 22:25
DFLT:  Thank you so much for the information.  I have followed Chinese history and many cultures as much as possible, having learned to love it from my wonderful teacher.  At least today the PRC government has begun again to appreciate the importance of the Qing dynasty as it unified and systemized so many important parts of life, like farming, and institutionalized forms of government, including building huge libraries of knowledge.  One movie that tore my heart to pieces and I have watched at least ten times is "City of Life and Death," concerning the conquest of Nanjing by the Japanese.  Now I learn your family was involved and my heart is breaking again. Cry Please share any stories if you care to.  The movie also documented the mostly failed efforts of the Germans to save the population.  You must have seen it.  As it was made recently in Beijing, do you consider it accurate? My family's skinny little 400 years seems like a day in the life of the Lao Tse family.  (Our family research actually goes back to the sacking of Rome in early the A.D.s. -- sacking and pillaging was a fun Vandal occupation then, up until we became pacifists after centuries of kicking Church inquisition butt in early Europe Clap).   You'd mentioned your belief systems and Qing beliefs -- could you share that?)  I look forward so much to many more conversations with you. Our family is known for fighting against slavery since Europe and then in the U.S. from 1700, up until this minute. Let me know if you are interested in that subject.  Then there's always my mothers ancestors, who originated on the Asian steppes 30,000 years ago and eventually became Vikings  Viking and Native Americans. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kaysu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 22:27
DFLT: Thank you so much for the information. I have followed Chinese history and many cultures as much as possible, having learned to love it from my wonderful teacher. At least today the PRC government has begun again to appreciate the importance of the Qing dynasty as it unified and systemized so many important parts of life, like farming, and institutionalized forms of government, including building huge libraries of knowledge. One movie that tore my heart to pieces and I have watched at least ten times is "City of Life and Death," concerning the conquest of Nanjing by the Japanese. Now I learn your family was involved and my heart is breaking again. Cry Please share any stories if you care to. The movie also documented the mostly failed efforts of the Germans to save the population. You must have seen it. As it was made recently in Beijing, do you consider it accurate? My family's skinny little 400 years seems like a day in the life of the Lao Tse family. (Our family research actually goes back to the sacking of Rome in early the A.D.s. -- sacking and pillaging was a fun Vandal occupation then, up until we became pacifists after centuries of kicking Church inquisition butt in early Europe Clap). You'd mentioned your belief systems and Qing beliefs -- could you share that?) I look forward so much to many more conversations with you. Our family is known for fighting against slavery since Europe and then in the U.S. from 1700, up until this minute. Let me know if you are interested in that subject. Then there's always my mothers ancestors, who originated on the Asian steppes 30,000 years ago and eventually became Vikings Viking and Native Americans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kaysu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 23:51
Dear Friend:If you care to watch, tonight at 7:00 p.m. and again at 11:29 p.m. Eastern Standard Time there is a program on tv channel C-Span 3 which involves a recent event in Washington, DC honoring an ancestor of mine.  My younger sister and I attended this event and I mention it to you as a snapshot of American history.  In the preview, my sister says we now have 2.5 seconds of fame -- I am the little old Great-Grandmother with Walking Stick in a black coat and hair in a bun you see jump as the sailors begin their 21-gun salute.  Our ancestor was Wells Wentz who joined the crew of the Union's "Monitor" ironclad warship because the crew was multinational and multiracial.  He was, as we all remain today, an abolutionist and anti-slavery.  He died trying to save the lives of the crew.   Also, if you search the C-Span archives for the "Monitor," there is much more historical information as it changed Naval history forever and saved the Union. 
 
Here is the link to watch live on the internet the program: American Artifacts: USS Monitor Sailors’ Burial. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kaysu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 23:52
Dear Friend:If you care to watch, tonight at 7:00 p.m. and again at 11:29 p.m. Eastern Standard Time there is a program on tv channel C-Span 3 which involves a recent event in Washington, DC honoring an ancestor of mine. My younger sister and I attended this event and I mention it to you as a snapshot of American history. In the preview, my sister says we now have 2.5 seconds of fame -- I am the little old Great-Grandmother with Walking Stick in a black coat and hair in a bun you see jump as the sailors begin their 21-gun salute. Our ancestor was Wells Wentz who joined the crew of the Union's "Monitor" ironclad warship because the crew was multinational and multiracial. He was, as we all remain today, an abolutionist and anti-slavery. He died trying to save the lives of the crew. Also, if you search the C-Span archives for the "Monitor," there is much more historical information as it changed Naval history forever and saved the Union.
Here is the link to watch live on the internet the program: American Artifacts: USS Monitor Sailors’ Burial.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lao Tse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 00:15
Originally posted by kaysu kaysu wrote:

DFLT: Thank you so much for the information. I have followed Chinese history and many cultures as much as possible, having learned to love it from my wonderful teacher. At least today the PRC government has begun again to appreciate the importance of the Qing dynasty as it unified and systemized so many important parts of life, like farming, and institutionalized forms of government, including building huge libraries of knowledge. One movie that tore my heart to pieces and I have watched at least ten times is "City of Life and Death," concerning the conquest of Nanjing by the Japanese. Now I learn your family was involved and my heart is breaking again. Cry Please share any stories if you care to. The movie also documented the mostly failed efforts of the Germans to save the population. You must have seen it. As it was made recently in Beijing, do you consider it accurate? My family's skinny little 400 years seems like a day in the life of the Lao Tse family. (Our family research actually goes back to the sacking of Rome in early the A.D.s. -- sacking and pillaging was a fun Vandal occupation then, up until we became pacifists after centuries of kicking Church inquisition butt in early Europe Clap). You'd mentioned your belief systems and Qing beliefs -- could you share that?) I look forward so much to many more conversations with you. Our family is known for fighting against slavery since Europe and then in the U.S. from 1700, up until this minute. Let me know if you are interested in that subject. Then there's always my mothers ancestors, who originated on the Asian steppes 30,000 years ago and eventually became Vikings Viking and Native Americans.
 
We all have rich family histories somewhereSmile. If only there was a writing system 30000 years ago, and the family recorded more, then your family would trace much further back than mine Tongue. Vikings, and Vandals, in my opinion, are a good family-lineage, because of the benefits that they brought to the world, even though they attacked a large ammount of cities all over Europe.
 
As for being anti-slavery, I'm always against slavery, it has always been wrong to hold people as servants (and many cases of abusing them) against their will, with or without payment. There are cases in China of slaves and servants rebelling, and to be honest, I think it shows honor to gain fredom under any means.
 
I'm just glad the PRC finally stopped torturing the Qing Imperial Household by persecuting them with the Red Guard, now their Clan Head is a retired official, and still has the title of Emperor of the Qing, sharing the Manchu region with his cousin, and now they're re-constructing the parts of the Forbidden City, and re-writing the signs in 2 languages. I think the Government in PRC realised that the Aisin Gioro family is still a symbol of a large amount of the people.
 
The Qing beliefs were the religion that had not changed for a long time, and the following of the Emperor, whether deposed or not, and wearing clothing (not hanfu, which was banned until 2003, but the day-silks) with a sonocho (the long braid that was worn to show loyalty [the hairstyle originated in Hongshan with servants wearing it, and the Qing enforced it as though not wearing a sonocho was treason and deserved to be beheaded, the longest in my family was my father's, who never cut his hair). The belief in the village was that the Guang Xu Emperor was still alive, but getting old, as was Cixi, who we thought lived to be well over 100, until the Kuomingtang told us of the fall of the Xuantong Emperor, whom we thought was a mere prince, the son of the Prince Chun, brother of the Emperor, and the outrage of Chiang Kai Shek stealing the earls and the lucky pearl from Cixi herself (post-mortem).
 
I did see the movie, and I liked it, and it was mostly accurate, granted many of the names of characters I have no idea existed (the Japanese Officer is likely not a real erson, but is more based on a Japanese Officer that as there or several who attended, but I'm relatively sure that the names of the German businessman and businesswoman are both accurate). My niece of course neglected the rule of cutting her hair (she was told to, but it wasn't too enforced, and she was about 5 years old, and she was as stuborn as a mule, even towards me when we left home for Xianggang [Hong Kong], and especially towards my parents [her grandparents]), she was likely hiding in unsafe buildings when the soldiers were looking for comfort women, she always was a form of a rascal of the family (we called her Mu Lan half the time because she acted more like a soldier than any of us), while her mother eas the exact opposite, Bei Xi was a quiet woman, but she had to work in factories with her husband, and never got to see her daughter beyond tucking her in at night and feeding her. In my opinion, Bei Xi was the rock of the family, she endured hardships worse than many others, even in her short lifetime.
Even Lady Cao regarded Bei Xi as the ultimate delegate to become an Immortal in our family, and she's the one who went everywhere in Korea in order to avoid capture, only to get captured, but triumphed and escaped, and eventually get married to the person who captured her (as far as I know she was happy, she wasn't abused by any means by her husband, but refuses to talk about her time in captivity).
在財富的害處,而是一件好事永遠不持續。我在和平中仅居住在新的風下。 Wei Jia Hong No harm in wealth, but a good thing doesn't last forever. I live only among peace under
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lao Tse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 00:19
Originally posted by kaysu kaysu wrote:

Dear Friend:If you care to watch, tonight at 7:00 p.m. and again at 11:29 p.m. Eastern Standard Time there is a program on tv channel C-Span 3 which involves a recent event in Washington, DC honoring an ancestor of mine. My younger sister and I attended this event and I mention it to you as a snapshot of American history. In the preview, my sister says we now have 2.5 seconds of fame -- I am the little old Great-Grandmother with Walking Stick in a black coat and hair in a bun you see jump as the sailors begin their 21-gun salute. Our ancestor was Wells Wentz who joined the crew of the Union's "Monitor" ironclad warship because the crew was multinational and multiracial. He was, as we all remain today, an abolutionist and anti-slavery. He died trying to save the lives of the crew. Also, if you search the C-Span archives for the "Monitor," there is much more historical information as it changed Naval history forever and saved the Union.
Here is the link to watch live on the internet the program: American Artifacts: USS Monitor Sailors’ Burial.
 
Sure I'll watch it Smile
 
Now I have a good reason to watch TV at 11:29, and it sounds interesting Big smile
在財富的害處,而是一件好事永遠不持續。我在和平中仅居住在新的風下。 Wei Jia Hong No harm in wealth, but a good thing doesn't last forever. I live only among peace under
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paradigm of Humanity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 18:02
I'm glad they finaly decided to accept their history the way it is. One thing dear commies won't get is history is not a linear progress. There are setbacks in history of every civilisation but most importantly there is not only a single way to reach a certain level of progress.
the single postmodern virtue of obsessive egalitarianism
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 19:22
I hadn't noticed many people, and those only a scattering of individuals, prepared to accept history tha way it is. Who is 'they'? (sic)
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork.

Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paradigm of Humanity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 19:58
"They" are being "PRC". Usually there is little difference between opinion of people and government in such countries where freedom of information is restricted severely. I know it by experience, Turkey was similar to that just a mere 15 years ago.
the single postmodern virtue of obsessive egalitarianism
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kaysu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 20:11
sadly too much history is written by adversaries.  it's important to always have an open mind forever if it takes that long as you continue to dig for much more information before gaining a valid understanding or opinion, no?
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