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Here is the present "Motor City" in pics!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2011 at 06:11
While depressing to look at the photos, i do appreciate your sharing them.

Was just trying to throw a tiny amount of weak levity, at the expense of Charlie Sheen (Sorry Joe), into an otherwise very bleak subject.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2011 at 07:45
Thanks Panther, it is good to sometimes have a favorable post directed towwards me, rather than the double team of the detractors.

If Graham is really being truthful to us, concerning his pension, that he stated that "Two months" of his present day pension would have paid for his "five bedroom home in his present place of residence in 1963, but wait a moment, here are his exact words;

"That still happens. Everywhere. I currently have already recouped everything I've paid into the UK and Luxembourg systems. I could never have saved anything like the amount I'd need to buy an annuity for my total pensions. Two months' pension would have paid for outright the five bedrooom house I bought on mortage in 1963. One month's pension is more than 25 times what I earned in total in a month to start on my first job in 1956 (as a feature writer on a million-and-a-half readership Fleet Street magazine.

There 's no way any scheme based on savings and reinvestment could have given that kind of return."

And then he does not call the current SS System in the USA,as a "Ponzi" scheme, totally drived me crazy. For a matter of fact, my parents bought a new home in about 1959, consisting of only three small bedrooms, and maybe 1,200 sq. feet, for $13,500 and Graham wants us to believe that his "Two month pension" today would have paid totally for the same home, he is either rather lucky, or he fell fullly down the rabbit hole. What I mean is that my parents paid $13,500 for a home in 1959, and taking Graham's post as truth, then we must consider that a five bedroom home, even in a poor nation like Luxembourg, must have cost at least as much in 1963, and thus, Graham must now receive as a "gift from the currently taxed" a check for at least $6,500 per month for his words to be creditible. That is $6,500 X 2, equals $13,000!

Now perhaps Graham purchased a five bedroom hovel, deep into an almost impentreable valley, full of theives, and other "n'er do wells", or Gypsies, etc., that was not really worth too much?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=n'er%20do%20wells

But, I really doubt, that in the case of any property within the boundaries of his nation, that such properties actually existed, even in 1963. (A stupid sentence but I will leave it alone.)

But, even if Graham's five bedroom home only cost him $10,000 in 1963, he would now be making from his version of SS, $5,000 per month!

But, perhaps Graham will explain it?

And when I mentioned the use of the "Printing Press" to manufacture "coin of the realm", he said "So?"

"So" means invariably to rampant inflation, at least that is my impression. But perhaps Graham or the "Good Doctor" will explain that little thing away also?

I expect a quick and evasive reply.

Regards,
Ron
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2011 at 08:58
You are wearing your welcome "thin", Opuslola, with your insistence on aspersions against others as an integral part of your postings. You can not argue with the historical fact that the first "recipient" of a Social Security check did receive more in payments than any amount she paid as "contribution". Ida May Fuller of Vermont is no secret and for a total contribution of $24.75 paid between 1934 and 1939, she received $22,888.92 from 1940 to 1975. Further, the constant blather against the SSA as a "Ponzi Scheme" is little other than ridiculous hyperbole. Likewise, inflation as an economic descriptive is not the product of a government simply printing excess notes [besides such has nothing to do with how the Federal Reserve actually operates]. I certainly can assert that in the past five years I have received in total payments from the SSA far more than I contributed and certainly more than the cost of my first "home", which was $42,000 US1965$.
 
If there is a myth rolling around, it is that personal savings will produce anyone an income against the future. Now that one is balderdash since I am still the recipient on an ancestral mortemain trust (call it an annuity) that while glowing as late as the 1960s, its present annual return of $6,000 while comfortable in 1960 places one significantly below the poverty-level today. Your claims are little more than the fodder for the selling of penny stocks as a hedge for future prosperity. There are no "Magic Numbers" and my great grandmother always blessed the day her husband believed none of it and kept his coin in the strongbox and not in the local bank, which went South rather quickly in 1927!


Edited by drgonzaga - 05 Apr 2011 at 09:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2011 at 09:04
It seems Doctor, that you and I have lived in totally differing nations. And, that we saw totally differing outcomes, or since you seem so fond of saying, you seem to be my total "obverse" side.

How you could live so long and be so wrong, is totally beyond me.

But, I deferr to your age and wisdom.

Regards,

Ron

Actually Dr., after reading literally hundreds of your postitings, it really seems that we have much more in common than I let on above.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2011 at 12:55
Originally posted by opuslola opuslola wrote:

And then he does not call the current SS System in the USA,as a "Ponzi" scheme, totally drived me crazy. For a matter of fact, my parents bought a new home in about 1959, consisting of only three small bedrooms, and maybe 1,200 sq. feet, for $13,500 and Graham wants us to believe that his "Two month pension" today would have paid totally for the same home, he is either rather lucky, or he fell fullly down the rabbit hole. What I mean is that my parents paid $13,500 for a home in 1959, and taking Graham's post as truth, then we must consider that a five bedroom home, even in a poor nation like Luxembourg, must have cost at least as much in 1963, and thus, Graham must now receive as a "gift from the currently taxed" a check for at least $6,500 per month for his words to be creditible. That is $6,500 X 2, equals $13,000!

Now perhaps Graham purchased a five bedroom hovel, deep into an almost impentreable valley, full of theives, and other "n'er do wells", or Gypsies, etc., that was not really worth too much?
I think you might find that housing prices, pension payments, and inflation rates vary significantly between countries. I also wonder what you mean by "poor nation of Luxemburg", but I assume you're being sarcastic.
My grandmother bought her house for 3000 pounds (AU$6000) in 1963. $6000 is two months of the average salary in Aus, and I am sure that some people get that amount in pension/superannuation so by niether your nor my calcs do Grahams look unreasonable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2011 at 22:32
Originally posted by opuslola opuslola wrote:

Thanks Panther, it is good to sometimes have a favorable post directed towwards me, rather than the double team of the detractors.

If Graham is really being truthful to us, concerning his pension, that he stated that "Two months" of his present day pension would have paid for his "five bedroom home in his present place of residence in 1963, but wait a moment, here are his exact words;
(a) I did not say 'in my present place of residence' at all. In 1963 I was living in Southampton and the price was in sterling: today I live in Luxembourg and my pensions are mostly in euros and the rest sterling. I would accept that part of the gain results from my moving to Luxembourg, and I would not have been doing so well had I stayed in Britain. And I have no idea what the situation was in the US in 1963, which is totally irrelevant to my point.
(b) My house was 60 years old at the time, and needed a little modernisation. However it was in a street where residents were doctors and lawyers and the like. It cost me £3,000 and my present State pensions come to £1,500 a month approximately (depending somewhat on the euro/sterling exchange rate.
 
If you can find something you now something about then stick to it. Otherwise you are spouting nonsense, because you are taking no account at all of currency differences, and for some reason yattering on about dollar prices. 
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"That still happens. Everywhere. I currently have already recouped everything I've paid into the UK and Luxembourg systems. I could never have saved anything like the amount I'd need to buy an annuity for my total pensions. Two months' pension would have paid for outright the five bedrooom house I bought on mortage in 1963. One month's pension is more than 25 times what I earned in total in a month to start on my first job in 1956 (as a feature writer on a million-and-a-half readership Fleet Street magazine.

There 's no way any scheme based on savings and reinvestment could have given that kind of return."

And then he does not call the current SS System in the USA,as a "Ponzi" scheme, totally drived me crazy. For a matter of fact, my parents bought a new home in about 1959, consisting of only three small bedrooms, and maybe 1,200 sq. feet, for $13,500 and Graham wants us to believe that his "Two month pension" today would have paid totally for the same home, he is either rather lucky, or he fell fullly down the rabbit hole. What I mean is that my parents paid $13,500 for a home in 1959, and taking Graham's post as truth, then we must consider that a five bedroom home, even in a poor nation like Luxembourg,
I don't know where you get 'poor' from. Luxembourg is one of the richest countries per capita in the world.
 
Moreover your parents $13,500 in 1959 would have been about £4,800 compared with the £3,000 I paid in Southampton four years later (and long before the big property booms started). So that means my present State pensions would pay for your parents house in about three months rather than two. Which doesn't alter my point much, because no private institution would guarantee that rate of return either.
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 must have cost at least as much in 1963, and thus, Graham must now receive as a "gift from the currently taxed" a check for at least $6,500 per month for his words to be creditible. That is $6,500 X 2, equals $13,000!

Now perhaps Graham purchased a five bedroom hovel, deep into an almost impentreable valley, full of theives, and other "n'er do wells", or Gypsies, etc., that was not really worth too much?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=n'er%20do%20wells

But, I really doubt, that in the case of any property within the boundaries of his nation, that such properties actually existed, even in 1963. (A stupid sentence but I will leave it alone.)

But, even if Graham's five bedroom home only cost him $10,000 in 1963, he would now be making from his version of SS, $5,000 per month!

But, perhaps Graham will explain it?
I just did. It cost me £3,000 and I get £1,500 a month. If I had sent my whole working life in Luxembourg I would be getting at least double that.
 
Now due to the vagaries of currenciy exchanges, £3,000 in 1963 was worth $8,400 and £1,500 now is only worth about $2,400 so in terms of current dollars the ratio would only be about 3.5 instead of 2.0 but I was working in sterling, not in dollars - why would you think I was using dollars?
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And when I mentioned the use of the "Printing Press" to manufacture "coin of the realm", he said "So?"

"So" means invariably to rampant inflation, at least that is my impression. But perhaps Graham or the "Good Doctor" will explain that little thing away also?
Doesn't need explaining (at least the answer doesn't, the question itself shows something of a confused mind).
Of course increasing the money supply is in some instances - probably most - inflationary: every country that I know of that has inflation control targets, sets them as greater than zero - usually 2.3%. But that is not bnecessarily rampant, and anyway in some situations, as for instance where people are oversaving, or the banks are callingin loans, government action in increasing the money supply only counteracts the deflationary effect.
 
And deflation is a far worse danger than inflation. 
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I expect a quick and evasive reply.
 
You get a quick one but not an evasive one. Do try and get in touch with the real world one day.


Edited by gcle2003 - 05 Apr 2011 at 22:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2011 at 09:05
And, my dear Graham, I surely hope you will someday rejoin the "real world" also?

Perhaps some other oldtimers, unlike you and the "Good Doctor", will have something to say.

But, perhaps they will be "doubleteamed", as you both have alternatively done me, be scared to post!

It seems, that by your status upon this list, you two also seem to tend to support one another.

So, it seems the only alternative to your view of the world, or your views of the world of the past, (Even if it is only 50 or so years) will be allowed to be presented with some type of respect.

Lowering regards for both of you ensue.

Ron
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2011 at 09:33
Well, as matters steadily decline from the boring to the boorish, the Detroit skyline with its Renaissance Center has faded in the distance. How the nature of the Social Security program or the decline of the purchasing power of the dollar can be associated with the toil and trouble of the Motor City is more than a bit bizarre...could one say it is but the current phase of Voodoo Economics?
 
Anyway, apparently some do not wish to discuss Detroit but find both my persona and that of Gcle far more interesting; hence, what can one say over these repeated childish proclamations of persecution? Now there is a level of slapstick humour here; to be portrayed as braces to another's trousers does bring a chortle to this throat with but one conclusion possible, someone is definitely sore down the bum!
 
Perhaps a riposte in the style of "Patrick Dennis" is in order...but somehow I believe that even East Coast jollity as grasped by a Chicagoan would hardly be appreciated much less understood.
 
By the way Edward Everett Tanner III did have two egos--Patrick Dennis and Virginia Rowans.


Edited by drgonzaga - 06 Apr 2011 at 09:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2011 at 13:02
The "Good Doctor" wrote above:

"Anyway, apparently some do not wish to discuss Detroit but find both my persona and that of Gcle far more interesting; hence, what can one say over these repeated childish proclamations of persecution? Now there is a level of slapstick humour here; to be portrayed as braces to another's trousers does bring a chortle to this throat with but one conclusion possible, someone is definitely sore down the bum!"

And, the above is amongst the best words of the "Good Doctor" that could be translated from his post. The last words of the above are far beyond the understanding of moder men or women!

So, I shall not change one bit of my previous posts!

Ron (no regards to you doctor, but perhaps I will reserve some for Graham?)



Edited by opuslola - 06 Apr 2011 at 13:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2011 at 14:08
Save the gas, opuslola, you might need it to get to Pascagoula. Now why don't you be a good boy and go back to Cyrus and play your games there. You have definitely worn out any welcome here...you have obviously forgotten that nothing ever disappears from the ethers of the WWW.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2011 at 16:09
Laugh!

Good Doctor, just how could you retreive such good information to add to my original post?

Thanks for your original remarks!

Ron
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2011 at 21:03
Originally posted by opuslola opuslola wrote:

And, my dear Graham, I surely hope you will someday rejoin the "real world" also?
And so you show yourself to be ignorant and totally wrong but of course you immediately forget all the smears and accusations of lying or insanity that you were guilty of.
 
Admit you were wrong, and one might have a little respect for you. And since you've shown you have no idea whatsoever of economic reality (they're really are more than one currency in the world, and they don't all march in lockstep with regard to changing values) you might do well to stay away from such themes, given that you just showuip your own ignorance all the time.
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Perhaps some other oldtimers, unlike you and the "Good Doctor", will have something to say.

But, perhaps they will be "doubleteamed", as you both have alternatively done me, be scared to post!

It seems, that by your status upon this list, you two also seem to tend to support one another.
Possibly because we both know what we are talking about if we make assertions..
 
If you'd been around long enough, you'd know that drgonzaga and I have certainly had our differences, notably over the 'failure' of the Spanish Armada and a certain American dance form/linguistic usage.
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So, it seems the only alternative to your view of the world, or your views of the world of the past, (Even if it is only 50 or so years) will be allowed to be presented with some type of respect. 
You write like a spoilt brat. You're old enough to know better.


Edited by gcle2003 - 06 Apr 2011 at 21:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2011 at 05:36
Indeed Graham, I should know better. It just seems I have some anger problems as well as some ego problems.

I shall try to act more adult.

Regards,
Ron
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