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hist of mankind from genetics

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    Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 00:20
So when did humans stop having hair all over?
Well, turns out they can come up with a date by figuring out 
how much deviation head lice vs. pubic lice have from each other.
Originally, human head lice and pubic lice were the same critters.
But when our North and our South (so to speak) separated.  
The critters in each area began to diverge from each other.
Figure out how much they've diverged, you have a rough
timeline.

Oh, I don't know when they started to diverge, I am just
impressed that scientists have figured out how to get a rough date.
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The teams of archeological, genetics, physicists and other sciences, has made advances in tracing the human genome through history to the extent that new findings are being made almost monthly, and the genesis of many human "tribes" being traced from their origins to their present locale.

Two cases at hand, and not by any means unusual, are the Australian Neanderthals and Aborigines, and the American tribes being tracked from Africa by various routes to their corrent homes.

There is great debate in scientific circles over by which route the Americas were populated, Beringia (Siberia-Alaska and then south by coast or inland) or by sea.

Time will tell.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 01:22
http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-native-american-origins-dna-20150721-story.html

Looks like the scientists found two distinct groups that became north and south Americans.

"It was crazy and unexpected and very weird and we spent the last year and a half trying to understand it," Reich said on Monday. But "it's inconsistent to a single founding population. People in Amazonia have ancestry from two divergent sources...we think this is a real observation."

David Meltzer, an archaeologist at Southern Methodist University in Dallas and a coauthor of the Science paper, said that researchers in his field had been wrestling with the early history of the Americas for centuries -- debating when the first settlers arrived here, whether there were pulses of migrations, and so on.

They also estimated that North American and South American populations split between 12,000 and 15,000 years ago, and that there was "evidence of subsequent migrations after the additional wave" -- including the DNA shared with native peoples in Australia and Micronesia.

Song did not think the Science study and Nature studies were necessarily inconsistent, and wondered if one possible scenario in the Nature paper -- "a long drawn out period of gene flow from a structured ... source," amounted to the same thing as his team's notion of an initial wave with subsequent migrations.

"Maybe the confusion is semantics," he said.



Edited by Vanuatu - 23 Feb 2017 at 01:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 04:23
Quote Looks like the scientists found two distinct groups that became north and south Americans.

The debate still rages, and I think there'll be a lot of water under the bridge before the question is resolved, if ever.

While I tend to favour the Beringia hypothesis, scientists are coming up with new ideas on a very regular basis, and one which cannot be put aside is the hypothesis that there have been several migrations into the Americas, from Beringia and also from seaward.

The Austronesians apparently were in the first wave of the Out of Africa migration-so far anyway, that could change tomorrow.


Edited by toyomotor - 23 Feb 2017 at 07:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 00:54
Vanuatu:-

I don't know how much you know about genetics, but I read an interesting article this morning, that you may like to read. It's not the latest thinking in genetics, what the article contains was know some months ago.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/neanderthal-ancestors-still-influencing-us-through-our-genes/news-story/1c666f61426d9767da02ab61f3be1404
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 01:39
Vanuatu:-

I mentioned in a previous post that I thought that there could have been multiple migrations into the Americas. A press Release made only yesterday seems to prove me correct.

http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/skull-analysis-concludes-americas-were-settled-more-one-wave-migrants-021241
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 02:51
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu:-

I mentioned in a previous post that I thought that there could have been multiple migrations into the Americas. A press Release made only yesterday seems to prove me correct.

http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/skull-analysis-concludes-americas-were-settled-more-one-wave-migrants-021241

I know how kool is that? That is the article I referred to. Remember Thor Heyerdahl? He sailed on the Kon Tiki (1947) to discern the route of migration to South America. He thought he would prove that the Pacific islands were populated by South Americans, descendants of the land bridge travelers. 
Genetic tests proved that tomatoes and sweet potato came from S.A. (staple food for Pacific Islanders) and that La Nina trade winds reversed every (roughly 2-7 yrs) seven years pushing easterly weather towards the western coast of South America. This made the journey from Pacific Islands possible where it's impossible during El Nino years.
Isn't it likely that some travelers would have returned to the Pacific Islands with sweet potato, and wouldn't they have traded women if a population existed in South America?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 03:02
The DNA of Pacific Islanders connects them to modern South Americans, all the way to Vanuatu! Haha

Neanderthal DNa is found at 47,000 years in Romanian remains. This article is old-2015, so much has changed! 

Neanderthals are thought to have disappeared in Europe approximately 39,000–41,000 years ago but they have contributed 1–3% of the DNA of present-day people in Eurasia. Surprisingly, analyses of present-day genomes have not yielded any evidence that Neanderthals mixed with modern humans in Europe, despite the fact that Neanderthals were numerous there and cultural interactions between the two groups have been proposed. Dr. FU Qiaomei, Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology of Chinese Academy of Sciences (IVPP), and scientists from Germany, USA, Romania and Canada, discovered that a 37,000–42,000-year-old modern human from Peştera cu Oase, Romania had the order of 6–9% of the genome derived from Neanderthals, more than any other modern human sequenced to date.

The finding published online June 22 in Nature suggests that the mixture between modern humans and Neanderthals was not limited to the first ancestors of present-day people to leave Africa, or to people in the Near East, and it occurred later as well and probably in Europe.


Oase 1, a modern human mandible, was found in 2002 in the Peştera cu Oase, Romania. The age of this specimen has been estimated to be,37,000–42,000 years by direct radiocarbon dating. 



Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2015-07-scientists-early-modern-human-neanderthal.html#jCp






Edited by Vanuatu - 24 Feb 2017 at 04:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 04:34
Vanuatu
The Ainu and the Jomon people, originally, were part of an early Out of Africa Migration which followed a coastal route through South East Asia, populating the Andaman Island and eventually Japan.

This was well before any influx of Chinese.

The Jomon and Ainu people settled in Japan about 12000 YBP, where the Australian Aborigines settled in Australia between about 40 to 60 thousand years ago. There have also been discoveries which lead to the revelation that Neanderthal people were here before the Aborigines.

Pacific Islanders are believed to have come from Asia to the islands, this is believed to be only  about 1000years ago. (I haven't read much about the Pacific Islanders so I can't say for sure how long they've been there.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 05:05
http://dna-explained.com/2015/07/22/some-native-americans-had-oceanic-ancestors/

Yes Pacific Islanders in Oceana probably came from Taiwan. But I'm referring to the South Americans who have Polynesian DNA but not the same markers as the groups who are identified with the Siberian or Beringia crossings.


"Subsequent gene flow resulted in some Native Americans sharing ancestry with present-day East Asians (including Siberians) and, more distantly, Australo-Melanesians. Putative ‘Paleoamerican’ relict populations, including the historical Mexican Pericúes and South American Fuego-Patagonians, are not directly related to modern Australo-Melanesians as suggested by the Paleoamerican Model."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 09:37
Vanuatu:

The ancients who first populated South America, AFAIK, were also part of the Great Coastal Migration, but more recent evidence, as I mentioned, indicates that there was also an influx by sea, so we end up with a mixing bowl. It's easy to see the asian influence in some Native Americans (a concept which is being attacked, in favour of there being other form of humans in the Americas prior to their arrival, and, astonishingly, closely related to the Australian Aborigines). Note that the Australian Aborigines predate the Native Americans by about 35000 to 38000 years.

Again, AFAIK, there is no evidence of these people being a large population, more possibly a splinter group which broke away from the Great Coastal Migration (of which the Aborigines were part).

What really intrigues me is the technical expertise of the South Americans, compared to the more primitive (and I use that word with caution) North Americans. Examples-their large complicated cities, the use of canals to channel water to their crops, construction of ziggurat style temples, metal working,etc.

Did the South Americans referred to arrive by sea from a middle eastern country, such as Mesopotamia? I don't think that there's evidence of that, but why were they so far technologically advanced compared to the North Americans, and remained so until the Spanish Invasions in some cases? I don't know.

From my limited knowledge of Native Americans, I think that closest the North Americans came, at that time, would possibly have been the Pueblo Indians who built "towns" in the cliff faces.

________________________________________________________________________________

Quote  Remember Thor Heyerdahl? 

Oy Vey, I'm only a munchkin. I wasn't born until the following year, but, yes I've seen the Discovery Channel and other programs on his venture.

As far as I'm concerned, he proved the theory of the sea borne migration-I don't know why scientists ignored his hypothesis for so long. Jealousy probably.

It ranks right up there with a theory that the Vikings in fact sailed further south and that some remained in America when the others went home.

Who knows what tomorrow will bring?





Edited by toyomotor - 24 Feb 2017 at 09:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 14:38
Yes the Anasazi (Colorado) left a complex system of buildings and had a large community living in caves known as Mesa Verde. 
http://www.nps.gov/meve/learn/historyculture/cliff_dwellings_home.htm

Burial mounds in Georgia (US) appear to be in the motif of Quetzalcoatl  but the US government won't allow excavation.
Author Jared Diamond  has described the fate of these people as an environmental disaster like Kattegat, Denmark.

Is it perfectly reasonable to expect more discovery? I think it is.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 22:24
It's not genetics, but the Polynesian language family (or probably, the Polynesian branch) comes from Taiwan.  Of that language family 3 of the 4 main branches are found only in Taiwan, which means that is the origin (or what is left of the origin) of that language family.

I would recommend John McWhorter and his linguistics lectures (on Great Courses).  He is in the Wall Street Journal and other popular outlets, I imagine that he is on youtube.

He seems to be synesthetic from the way he uses examples, it is kind of cool.

Madagascar is also the same language family.

Interesting hearing about the Ainu and the Jomon, never thought about whether the Jomon were ethnically different that the Japanese.  (I studied Japanese language and culture for a couple of years).

If I remember right, Mesa Verde is not Anasazi and it definitely is not a cave the way we think of caves.  There is an overhang, under which they built their adobe village.  There are also ruins on the top of the Mesa which are older.  I seem to remember there was quite a bit of sand (grit) in their diet, which wore down their teeth.  But it has been a long time since I went down there (grade school).

It's treaties with the Indian tribes which prevent excavation, in some ways I would like to learn more about ancient cultures, but I can understand the Indian view that archaeologists are grave robbers.  Western European tradition says that excavation is alright, but that is not the view everywhere.  Of course, putting all this stuff in a museum, is in a way just putting in a fancy _mausoleum_, where instead of just being dead, it is dead and on display.  Of course, I like museums too, I just wonder if it would be better to leave the grave goods where they are, just like I wonder if scientists molesting penguins is the best thing from the penguin's perspective.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 23:42
franciscosan wrote
Quote It's not genetics, but the Polynesian language family (or probably, the Polynesian branch) comes from Taiwan.  Of that language family 3 of the 4 main branches are found only in Taiwan, which means that is the origin (or what is left of the origin) of that language family.

I see, and precisely how did the language family manage to migrate to the Pacific Islands, without the people?

You are wrong! 

The most modern thinking is that, against the odds, people came from Taiwan to the Pacific Islands, obviously by sea, and remained there. The language, over time developed into the various languages spoken throughout the islands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 00:01
I am not sure what you think i am wrong about, I may have not expressed myself very well.  If I said, "this whirling dervish statue came from Turkey." would you say that it did not?  It definitely did not paddle in an outrigger, or walk, or fly, but it was picked up as a souvenir and came to Colorado.  The language families that include Polynesian, according to the linguist John McWhorter, originated in Taiwan.  We can tell that because that is where the most divergence of the language family is.  If you want to argue with Professor McWhorter, that is where I have got my factoids (mangled perhaps by me, not him).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 04:13
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I am not sure what you think i am wrong about, I may have not expressed myself very well.  If I said, "this whirling dervish statue came from Turkey." would you say that it did not?  It definitely did not paddle in an outrigger, or walk, or fly, but it was picked up as a souvenir and came to Colorado.  The language families that include Polynesian, according to the linguist John McWhorter, originated in Taiwan.  We can tell that because that is where the most divergence of the language family is.  If you want to argue with Professor McWhorter, that is where I have got my factoids (mangled perhaps by me, not him).

My disagreement with you centres on your inference that language arrived on the Pacific Islands, without DNA.

I won't argue with an academic, but your inference is out of whack, IMHO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 04:34
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

It's not genetics, but the Polynesian language family (or probably, the Polynesian branch) comes from Taiwan.  Of that language family 3 of the 4 main branches are found only in Taiwan, which means that is the origin (or what is left of the origin) of that language family.

I would recommend John McWhorter and his linguistics lectures (on Great Courses).  He is in the Wall Street Journal and other popular outlets, I imagine that he is on youtube.

He seems to be synesthetic from the way he uses examples, it is kind of cool.

Madagascar is also the same language family.

Interesting hearing about the Ainu and the Jomon, never thought about whether the Jomon were ethnically different that the Japanese.  (I studied Japanese language and culture for a couple of years).

If I remember right, Mesa Verde is not Anasazi and it definitely is not a cave the way we think of caves.  There is an overhang, under which they built their adobe village.  There are also ruins on the top of the Mesa which are older.  I seem to remember there was quite a bit of sand (grit) in their diet, which wore down their teeth.  But it has been a long time since I went down there (grade school).


It most certainly is called Mesa Verde, and it has been completely excavated. The trouble with other sites is that the US government owns the land not the Native Americans. No one said the cliff dwellings were like anything in particular, thus the link. 

Cliff Dwellings

The cliff dwellings of Mesa Verde are some of the most notable and best preserved in the North American Continent. Sometime during the late 1190s, after primarily living on the mesa top for 600 years, many Ancestral Pueblo people began living in pueblos they built beneath the overhanging cliffs. The structures ranged in size from one-room storage units to villages of more than 150 rooms. While still farming the mesa tops, they continued to reside in the alcoves, repairing, remodeling, and constructing new rooms for nearly a century. By the late 1270s, the population began migrating south into present-day New Mexico and Arizona. By 1300, the Ancestral Puebloan occupation of Mesa Verde ended.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 08:23
Vanuatu:-



I think that these are the same dwellings that I refered to. AFAIK, these crude dwellings, as well as the "lodges" built by other tribes, are the only evidence of construction by North Americans. Why that is the case, and if I'm right, I don't know.

How the idea for the complicated buildings, waterways and roads reached the South Americans, I don't know.

If you know, I'd be interested in finding out.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 21:22
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu:-



I think that these are the same dwellings that I refered to. AFAIK, these crude dwellings, as well as the "lodges" built by other tribes, are the only evidence of construction by North Americans. Why that is the case, and if I'm right, I don't know.

How the idea for the complicated buildings, waterways and roads reached the South Americans, I don't know.

If you know, I'd be interested in finding out.



 

I think Jared Diamond's 25 year study detailed in "Guns, Germs and Steel" (nutshell version at link) provides an explanation for Eurasian dominance in technology that also applies to the south/north American Indians. Domestication of animals occurs in sedentary populations. North American Indians had lots of room and followed game like the hunter gatherer at tribal level maybe 50-100 people. 

Frequent drought in the southwestern US would have been a great challenge. The Anasazi did overcome it for a long time 1100 years or so, trade routes did exist. Among North American Indians there was a tribal chief but no king and the population was nomadic. Groups remained distinct bc there was so much land and game available. The Great Plains are prone to disastrous flooding, the west coast has drought, the southeastern coast gets hit by hurricanes and tornadoes hit all along the Atlantic coast. This would have made farming difficult and the lack of animals and plants that would yield to domestication were also scarce. Diamond makes the point about Aborigines, why didn't they domestic the kangaroo?  Roos just aren't cows or pigs. I think the link will answer a lot of questions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 21:42
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I am not sure what you think i am wrong about, I may have not expressed myself very well.  If I said, "this whirling dervish statue came from Turkey." would you say that it did not?  It definitely did not paddle in an outrigger, or walk, or fly, but it was picked up as a souvenir and came to Colorado.  The language families that include Polynesian, according to the linguist John McWhorter, originated in Taiwan.  We can tell that because that is where the most divergence of the language family is.  If you want to argue with Professor McWhorter, that is where I have got my factoids (mangled perhaps by me, not him).

My disagreement with you centres on your inference that language arrived on the Pacific Islands, without DNA.

I won't argue with an academic, but your inference is out of whack, IMHO.




 All Austronesian languages spoken outside Taiwan belong to the Malayo-Polynesian branch, and almost all the Malayo-Polynesian languages of Oceania belong to the Oceanic branch. It is Proto Oceanic, the immediate ancestor of the Oceanic languages, that is associated with an early phase of the Lapita Cultural Complex. Proto Oceanic split into a number of branches as its descendants spread across Remote Oceania, including Proto Nuclear Micronesian and Proto Polynesian (a branch of Central Oceanic).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 22:18
Of course, DNA went to Polynesia, but you need not understand DNA or even its existence to understand the paradigms of linguistics.  To me, Linguistics is one of those fields of science, like the use of DNA that can illustrate very basic, fundamental facts of human activity, like migrations.  In that case they are similar, but of course you cannot tell what language(s) and individual spoke by the bodily remains.  At least not yet??  (Never say never?)  Since it similar and neat that is why I brought in the Polynesian linguistics, and because it doesn't _directly_ have to do with genetics, that is why I apologized for doing so.

I am not sure that I would consider Mesa Verde "primitive."  I don't know about the age of the Hopi buildings, or other structures.  Wooden lodges were built in the Pacific North West.  I wonder how much of Mesa Verde and the other Southwest structures were the result of maize agriculture, starting in Mexico and Guatemala and coming up from there.  I seem to remember that Mesa Verde had natural water sources, but I am not sure.  But, you definitely did not get the complexity that happened with the Aztec, Mayan and Incan civilizations.  Much as I hate crowding, I tend to think that crowding causes societies to innovate and engage in 'art.' which creates more complexity, which allows more population density, etc.  Of course, that is one option (the successful one), the other option is Easter Island or other kinds of failure.  What Diamond calls Collapse.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 00:49
franciscosan:-
Quote I am not sure that I would consider Mesa Verde "primitive." 

Surely you would agree that the South American cities were for more complex and sophisticated than those at Mesa Verde.

Compared with the majority of North Americans dwellings though, they would have been streets ahead I suppose.


Edited by toyomotor - 26 Feb 2017 at 01:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 01:04
Vanuatu:
Quote  Diamond makes the point about Aborigines, why didn't they domestic the kangaroo?  Roos just aren't cows or pigs.

I can think of a few reasons why Kangaroos were not domesticated.

  1. The Australian Aborigines were/are nomadic people from the Stone Age. They built no buildings and lived in small "lean to's" suitable for one or two nights and which were then discarded. They had no concept of fencing in land, people or animals;
  2. The Aborigines didn't form any large tribal groups, they travelled in extended family groups, and bush tucker was readily available-reptiles, birds, Kangaroos and some flora-fish for the coastal dwellers, so why bother?;
  3. Kangaroos would have been incredibly difficult to domesticate for the above reasons, and also apart from food and clothing, they served no other purpose. 
Because they were a nomadic people, wandering hunter/gatherers, it makes archeological finds very difficult, apart from the coastal middens, which, in effect were their rubbish dumps of sea shells.

Also bear in mind that being so isolated from the rest of the human community they remained Stone Age people until settlement by white people in 1788, and even then most of them didn't progress until the mid 20th Century. I think the last Aborigines to be contacted by white people was in the 1950's and they were living exactly how their ancestors did  thousand years ago.




Edited by toyomotor - 26 Feb 2017 at 01:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2017 at 00:52
From
Quote http://factsanddetails.com/world/cat56/sub360/item1481.html

 There are various theories describing how migration patterns played a part in the development of early humans. The traditional, widely-accepted "Single Origin, Out of Africa Theory" of human evolution posits that earliest hominids evolved in Africa; that Australopithecus species evolved into Homo species in Africa; that early Homo species migrated to Asia and the Old World from Africa between a million and two million years ago; and that Homo sapiens also evolved in Africa.

 According to the “Out of Africa" theory there were two migration of African-born Homo species. First, Homo erectus began slowly moving into the Middle East, Europe and Asia between a million and two million years ago. Homo erectus splintered into numerous colonies that developed separately from one another. None of the colones outside of Africa contributed to the development of Homo sapiens , which also originally evolved in Africa.


Although there are now alternative views on the movement of human kind from Africa to various parts of the world, this not to overlook the fact that there other ancestral species of man extant at the time.

The migration pattern which interests me is the Great Coastal Migration, where it is believed that the migrants, having left Africa, travelled via a coastal route through South East Asia, South Asia and the Far East to settle in such places as Japan.

Japan has a fairly unique place in the story, as, apart from the Chinese who populated Japan, the country was never successfully invaded by other cultures, and therefore remained pretty much "racially pure". The Original inhabitants of Japan, the Ainu and the Joman people have ancestors alive and well in parts of Japan in modern day.

Most Japanese, but the Ainu etc expecially, share the Haplogroup D2, in which mutations play a major role in their development.

There are other small pockets of D2 in the Andaman Islands, no doubt a leftover from the Great Coastal Migration, in Tibet and Mongolia.

The link referred to provides an interesting read to anyone interested in the movement of human species.

And here I sit, a phenotypically European male, fair skin, blue eyes and brown hair, but with the D2 Haplogroup, relating to my earliest ancestor. My personal DNA has also travelled around Europe, Scandinavia and the British Isles.

The details of that voyage would be incredible.





Edited by toyomotor - 02 Mar 2017 at 03:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2017 at 11:59
Certainly makes the neck hair stand out. They have found DNA in Mongolian girls, blonde haired girls, that share DNA with the historical Amazon women.


Of all these amazing discoveries the Neanderthal link to red hair and fair skin is the biggest shock. Going back to my youth the difference in what was believed 40 years ago verses what the science has recently proved is just incredible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2017 at 13:35
Matrilineal DNA used to show continuous lines in nine individuals. 

Based on these results, the researchers argue that the Chacoan society was likely hierarchal, with leadership or high social status passing down through the female line. Just as Jewish heritage is passed down from mother to child in some denominations, Chacoan mothers seem to have handed down power and influence to their children. That doesn’t mean that women ruled in the Chacoan civilizations—only that they had an important role in continuing the family line.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2017 at 03:33
Vanuatu wrote
Quote Certainly makes the neck hair stand out. They have found DNA in Mongolian girls, blonde haired girls, that share DNA with the historical Amazon women.

In Northern China, in the Tarim Basin, ancient graves have been found-called the Tarim Basin Mummies- which when analysed showed that they were fair haired and European.

There are also records of a caucasian like fair haired, blue eyed people who lived, in ancient times, near the Big Bend in the Yellow River, in China.

The lastest thinking on the former is that they could have been Sogdians or even Tocharians from an area north east of the Chinese borders.

Also, bearing in mind that the Mongol Empire was the largest contiguous empire that the world has ever seen, it would be reasonable, IMHO, to expect a certain amount of cross breeding with women of other cultures across Europe.

I've not read up on the Amazons and their origins, but, now that science seems to be saying that there were sea borne arrivals in the Americas, I'm not really surprised.

Take a look and many indigenous peoples in the Americas, and you will find facial structures very simliar to those in  the Far East. Is this an accident of nature? I don't think so.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2017 at 03:36
Vanuatu-
Quote with leadership or high social status passing down through the female line. 

Nothing really changes, does it?

Women have allowed men to think that they are the head of the house for millenia-smart men know differently.Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2017 at 03:40
Where would women be without our men? No place for me. Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2017 at 03:54
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu wrote
Quote Certainly makes the neck hair stand out. They have found DNA in Mongolian girls, blonde haired girls, that share DNA with the historical Amazon women.

Also, bearing in mind that the Mongol Empire was the largest contiguous empire that the world has ever seen, it would be reasonable, IMHO, to expect a certain amount of cross breeding with women of other cultures across Europe.

I've not read up on the Amazons and their origins, but, now that science seems to be saying that there were sea borne arrivals in the Americas, I'm not really surprised.

Take a look and many indigenous peoples in the Americas, and you will find facial structures very simliar to those in  the Far East. Is this an accident of nature? I don't think so.



The Mongols started the 5 second rule, ok it was the 12 hour rule. In america if you drop food but scoop it up in 5 seconds, it's ok to eat it. A school kid did some serious research and found that the "rule" originated with the Mongols & Genghis Khan. Except it was 12 hours after game animal was killed, then you just had to walk away. Attila was a prolific baby daddy 5% of the world's male population, 16 million people!

Have you noticed?--no matter the race-- you find recurring features, for example a Barbara Streisand nose. I've seen that nose on every racial type. Henry Louis Gates Jr., is a Harvard guy he had a series where he looked at DNA from well known types like Oprah. So it turns out she's Chinese. I always thought her eyes looked Chinese but also felt like it's something that a person should not comment on.

The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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