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hist of mankind from genetics

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2017 at 04:25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwrpBgTfsGQ

Thanks that was helpful. 

This link has the full length feature film "Rabbit Proof Fence" it's outstanding. 
true story of three aboriginal girls who are forcibly taken from their families in 1931 to be trained as domestic servants as part of an official Australian government policy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2017 at 08:28
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwrpBgTfsGQ

Thanks that was helpful. 

This link has the full length feature film "Rabbit Proof Fence" it's outstanding. 
true story of three aboriginal girls who are forcibly taken from their families in 1931 to be trained as domestic servants as part of an official Australian government policy.

Yes, they form what is now called "The Stolen Generation". But I don't think it's as evil as it may appear.

The situation was that the government of the day recognised that the Aboriginal people were not progressing towards equality with white people in education, employment, health etc.

They rounded up a number of children who were taken to homes where the girls could learn skills as cooking, sewing and as general house maids, while the boys learned how to be farm hands. It worked to Aboriginal advantage to a small degree, but, psychologically, it harmed a generation for life.

Some of the children were relocated to homes nearer to towns where they could receive an education. Again, it was successful only to a small degree, but it did set the scene where a small number of Aboriginal men rose to some of the highest levels of the professions in the country, such as in law and politics.

There have been a few misguided schemes aimed at helping Aboriginal people that have failed. An example quite often quoted is the case where the Federal Government went to Aboriginal Country, and built the tribe houses, simple but suitable for the conditions. Each family was provided with a new Toyota Land Cruiser and a Solar powered public telephone was installed for community use. Six months or so later, welfare workers visited the settlement, to find it deserted. The houses had all been trashed, walls and doors burnt in the front yard, motor vehicles derelict with wheels and tyres either missing or destroyed.

Somewhat alarmed, the welfare workers set out to find the tribe, and did so.They were camped on the banks of a river near a small town, living under humpys and drinking large quantities of alcohol. Young people were sniffing petrol or other accelerants.

That they had abandoned Country was inexplicable, but they still went walkabout when they wanted, but wouldn't live in the white built houses. A typical case of their culture still not accepting parts of the white culture.

Militant Aborigines play these misguided attempts to help them as deliberate harm inflicted by white fellas. Harm inflicted, possibly, but not deliberate.

But not all Aborigines are still nomadic, some have lived in small settlements for generations, or on cattle stations-and they're happy with their lot. Some have been absorbed into the white community with good results-others, not so good.


An example of an Aboriginal Humpy.


Edited by toyomotor - 30 Apr 2017 at 08:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2017 at 03:43
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwrpBgTfsGQ

Thanks that was helpful. 

This link has the full length feature film "Rabbit Proof Fence" it's outstanding. 
true story of three aboriginal girls who are forcibly taken from their families in 1931 to be trained as domestic servants as part of an official Australian government policy.

Yes, they form what is now called "The Stolen Generation". But I don't think it's as evil as it may appear.

The situation was that the government of the day recognised that the Aboriginal people were not progressing towards equality with white people in education, employment, health etc.

They rounded up a number of children who were taken to homes where the girls could learn skills as cooking, sewing and as general house maids, while the boys learned how to be farm hands. It worked to Aboriginal advantage to a small degree, but, psychologically, it harmed a generation for life.

Some of the children were relocated to homes nearer to towns where they could receive an education. Again, it was successful only to a small degree, but it did set the scene where a small number of Aboriginal men rose to some of the highest levels of the professions in the country, such as in law and politics.

There have been a few misguided schemes aimed at helping Aboriginal people that have failed. An example quite often quoted is the case where the Federal Government went to Aboriginal Country, and built the tribe houses, simple but suitable for the conditions. Each family was provided with a new Toyota Land Cruiser and a Solar powered public telephone was installed for community use. Six months or so later, welfare workers visited the settlement, to find it deserted. The houses had all been trashed, walls and doors burnt in the front yard, motor vehicles derelict with wheels and tyres either missing or destroyed.

Somewhat alarmed, the welfare workers set out to find the tribe, and did so.They were camped on the banks of a river near a small town, living under humpys and drinking large quantities of alcohol. Young people were sniffing petrol or other accelerants.

That they had abandoned Country was inexplicable, but they still went walkabout when they wanted, but wouldn't live in the white built houses. A typical case of their culture still not accepting parts of the white culture.

Militant Aborigines play these misguided attempts to help them as deliberate harm inflicted by white fellas. Harm inflicted, possibly, but not deliberate.

But not all Aborigines are still nomadic, some have lived in small settlements for generations, or on cattle stations-and they're happy with their lot. Some have been absorbed into the white community with good results-others, not so good.


An example of an Aboriginal Humpy.

That's roughn' it.  I realize that the mindset of colonial and European powers led them to believe that native peoples needed saving. They needed religion, western clothing and western learning. 

Well intended yes but also a selfish component that allowed the rationale of the inferiority of native people to persist. Aborigines didn't have a modern world view but their intelligence and understanding of the world sustained them in nature and "Rabbit Proof Fence" explains that harmony and superiority over modern man's idea of what natives should be.   
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2017 at 04:12
Vanuatu wrote
Quote Well intended yes but also a selfish component that allowed the rationale of the inferiority of native people to persist. Aborigines didn't have a modern world view but their intelligence and understanding of the world sustained them in nature and "Rabbit Proof Fence" explains that harmony and superiority over modern man's idea of what natives should be.  

A point to be noted here is that many Australian Aborigines still do not have a modern world view. Even their nearest genetic cousins, the Papua/New Guineans have progressed much further, even in their most basic cultural aspects.

In many ways, it would probably have been better if the white people had left the Aborigines totally alone, allowed them to fend for themselves as they always had done. But of course the humanitarian interests could not be ignored, they had to have help in health, education and so on. Unfortunately the bad elements of white culture also attached themselves, drinking alcohol, smoking, drug use and domestic violence.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.




Edited by toyomotor - 02 May 2017 at 06:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 01:48
More Updates!!!
Now there is a bit more than speculation about the Out of Africa theory, after ancient skeletal remains were found in southern Europe, bones which indicate a possibility that ancient Homo Sapiens Sapiens could, just could, have originated in the region of the Iberian Peninsula.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 02:47
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

More Updates!!!
Now there is a bit more than speculation about the Out of Africa theory, after ancient skeletal remains were found in southern Europe, bones which indicate a possibility that ancient Homo Sapiens Sapiens could, just could, have originated in the region of the Iberian Peninsula.

Is this what you are referring to? Imagine this beautiful little creature smart enough to throw stones. Hunters? What do we think?


Europe, not Africa, might have spawned the first members of the human evolutionary family around 7 million years ago, researchers say.

Tooth characteristics of a chimpanzee-sized primate that once lived in southeastern Europe suggest that the primate, known as Graecopithecus, may have been a hominid, not an ape as many researchers assume. One tooth in particular, the second lower premolar, is telling. It features two partially fused roots, a trait characteristic of early hominids but not ancient apes, a team led by geoscientist Jochen Fuss of the University of Tübingen in Germany reports May 22 in PLOS ONE.

Scientists suspect the first hominids appeared sometime between 8 million and 6 million years ago. New age estimates for previously discovered fossils position Graecopithecus as potentially the earliest known hominid, the investigators suggest. A Graecopithecus lower jaw, found in Athens with most teeth still in their sockets, dates to around 7.175 million years ago, a group led by Tübingen geoscientist Madelaine Böhme reports May 22 in a separate paper in PLOS ONE. An isolated Graecopithecus tooth from Bulgaria, an upper second premolar, dates to approximately 7.24 million years ago, the scientists say.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2017 at 07:58
Quote   Imagine this beautiful little creature smart enough to throw stones.

I presume that you are referring to yourself. I'm still in pain over the stones you threw at me on the T***p thread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2017 at 02:24
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote   Imagine this beautiful little creature smart enough to throw stones.

I presume that you are referring to yourself. I'm still in pain over the stones you threw at me on the T***p thread.

A smart hominid wouldn't throw stones at you, maybe just a poke with a stick.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2017 at 02:35
It was a bloody BIG stick.LOL

Do you remember when the popular cartoon depiction of a cave man was a hairy bloke with a big wooden club over his shoulder, dragging his semi-concious new bride by the hair to their new home?

What went wrong? Why did we change?LOL


Edited by toyomotor - 04 Jun 2017 at 02:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2017 at 02:14
Somebody sold us a "new and improved" stick, and it went down hill from there.

Civilization, that is where it went wrong, women civilized men, it is all their "fault."
If it wasn't for women, men would still be naked, watching the fire, and eating week old doritos
caught in our beards.  If it wasn't for women, the sheep would be nervous. :P

As one cave man said to the other, "I don't get it, everything is natural, all we eat is organic, and we only live until we are 30"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2017 at 02:43
Ah yes, the "good old days".

But I think we better leave it there, or suffer the consequences from that other gender. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2017 at 02:56
Some people believe that the prehistoric stone age (I am a little fuzzy about what age, paleo, mess, or neolithic?) that it was the age of the Great Earth Mother Goddess, when a matriarchy ruled, and the power of women's fertility was fundamental.  (Marija Gimbutas sp?)

So we may joke about "the good old days," but some people believed that in the prehistoric era the women wore the pants in the family, so to speak.  Granted, such ideas are controversial, politically charged, and it isn't exactly easy to know much about the lithic eras.  But some people believe in a prehistoric matriarchy, including covering (probably) the Minoans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2017 at 08:09
franciscosan

It's a well known and accepted historical fact that a number of societies were matriarchal and that men therefore were relegated to second place. There is no evidence that these communities were disfunctional, afaik.

Who's the boss in your house?Wink

But this strays from the topic, which is History of Mankind from Genetics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2017 at 02:36
Name three societies that were matriarchal, and for extra credit give three in the time period of the historical era.  You can give prehistoric and primitive, but I don't know if that qualifies as "well known and accepted historical fact."

I am single, but I go over to my little ol' mother's quite often.  I think the Australian Silky Terrier there is the boss.

You have in the genetic heritage, a sign of kingship, when one male fathers through a lot of females, one generation of a whole people.  In such a situation, men are second class, except for the king, who supposedly is to be killed and replaced every 1/2, 1, or nine years.  Is that patriarchal or matriarchal, I am not quite sure.  But in any case, the stories about it tend to be mythical and prehistorical.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2017 at 09:19
Now you're being patronising.Angry

You know that in ancient times such societies existed, the Amazons for example.  

It should therefore come as no surprise to you that such societies exist in modern day. (http://mentalfloss.com/article/31274/6-modern-societies-where-women-literally-rule)

If you took the time to do some research, rather than snipe at me, you would know these things.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2017 at 20:31
But they don't exist "in modern day," they exist on the fringe of societies (the boundaries of larger societies) and obscure regional areas.  That is the thing, you got to be an anthropologist or are specifically looking for them, in order to find them.  Now I do hope that they are viable, that they are going to survive and indeed thrive in this modern world of change and progress, but knowing that indigenous cultures and languages are threatened, I would not find it hard to believe that they might be threatened as well.

toyomotor, you take things too personally, if you make a claim and I call you on it, it should not be a big deal, you have supplied me with the mental floss article in answer to your claim, and I acknowledge that those are matriarchal/matrialineal societies "in" the modern world.  It does not change my opinion that matriarchal societies are fairly rare, especially with some anthropologist in the past wanting to find them, when they are not necessarily there (Margaret Mead).  I will assume that the cases you gave me are the real deal, but I also believe that if they were not the real deal, I personally would not have the knowledge to question them either way.  It is interesting them bringing up, matriarchal and matrilineal.  Judaism is matrilineal, but no one would confuse them with matriarchal.

We don't really know much about the amazons, except that they had one breast (seriously).  A-mazon (without breast), they cut it off so it would not obstruct in archery.  We have a lot of "Venus (of Willendorf)" figurines from the stone age, and not as much male figurines, but that might just be the accidents of survive.  If woman's sacred space is the earth and a cave, and man's is the sky and rain, are evidence is going to be bias towards seeing activity of the earth goddess.  On the other hand, fertility must have been a very basic 'need' for the survival of the tribe.

Everybody says that there were/are matriarchal societies, but when you get down to it, it is actually pretty hard to come up with matriarchal societies, and I also think that is a sign of something else, it is hard to come up with matriarchal societies, and it is even hard to conceptualize what a matriarchal society would be like.  We tend to think that it would be like our society today, but with women in the leadership positions, than men, but anthropological examples of actual matriarchal societies shows that it would not just be the equivalent of a negative exposure of a black and white photo, it would be something quite different.  It is not impossible, but it would be quite different.

If you want to get mad at me, you can, but I am just trying to come with answers too, albeit in a different way than you are.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 04:40
Franciscosan

Yes, I get mad at you. You seem to want to pick an argument with just about everything I write.

I didn't say that matriachial societies were widespread, I didn't say that they were large in number. I said that they existed in ancient times and that historians have recognised that fact. I also said that some still exist today.

Telll me I'm wrong,  and prove it!!!

I'm getting tired of your adversarial style. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2017 at 20:55
In Etruscan history, there has been a debate of whether the Etruscan (in Etruria or modern day Tuscany, Italy) are indigenous, as Dionysius of Halicarnassus suggests or come from Asia Minor, as Herodotus suggests.  Apparently, genetic evidence shows that the Etruscans are _very_ genetically distant from the population of Asia Minor, thereby giving support to Dionysius of Halicarnassus' view.  Of course, if you go back far enough, everybody is related.

The Etruscans are an interesting culture.  Rome was ruled by an Etruscan kingship until the kings were kicked out c. 509 BC, and the Roman Republic began.  In many ways, Rome was culturally Etruscan in the beginning, but overgrew its boundaries and conquered the Etruscan cities.  The Emperor Claudius wrote a history of the Etruscans.

The Etruscans were not matriarchal, but women had a great deal more status in Etruria than they did in the Greek world.  Unlike the Greeks, the women banqueted with the men.  Our adoption of personal names and family names (pronomen, cognomen) comes from Etruria, via the Romans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 02:28
Again, you've strayed from the OP.

We're supposed to be talking about the history of mankind from genetics, like the fact, for instance, that although I appear to all intents and purposes to be of your average European stock, my DNA is Japanese and shared with some people in the Andaman Islands.

Now for the history, the DNA comes about from the great Out of Africa Migration, and I won't touch on the theory of the origins of mankind elsewhere in this post, and the route taken, in this instance, around the coastline.

It,s popularly believed that the first modern humans to populate the Americas did so via the Beringia Land Bridge (between Siberia and Alaska) and then via various routes southward.

I know that there are now varying theories on the above, and perhaps we can discuss them.




Edited by toyomotor - 20 Jun 2017 at 09:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 09:42
Franciscosan

Further to the last post.

My Japanese DNA is from a very ancient male ancestor.

For the purposes of this discusion, if we accept that the cradle of Anatomically Modern Humans (AMH) was in fact Africa, why isn't all of our male DNA (YDNA) reflective of this fact, and therefore Haplogroup E1b1b, for example. For that matter, why don't we all have an African YDNA subclade?

My YDNA Test also revealed DNA from Scandinavia, Europe and the British Isles. The Scandinavian YDNA showed as about 35%, why then do I not have a Scandinavian Haplogroup such as I1 or a sub-clade thereof?




Edited by toyomotor - 20 Jun 2017 at 10:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 13:59
It was my understanding that the groups who have Neanderthal DNA lack the African Mitochondrial markers. 

  "ScotlandsDNA believes that everyone who carries one of 3 variants of the red-hair gene is a direct descendant of the first redhead ever to have it – two variants originating in West Asia around 70,000 years ago, and a younger variant originating in Europe around 30,000 years ago."


Edited by Vanuatu - 21 Jun 2017 at 14:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 14:17
The paternal counterpart is the Y chromosome. Women, of course, lack the Y chromosome, so it is inherited strictly from father to son. It can be quite revealing to trace how the Y chromosome and mitochondrial DNA mix in a single population. Under the old South African apartheid categories, ''colored'' people were those who descended from black and white parents—but their Y chromosome almost always shows a European ancestry, whereas their mitochondrial DNA usually shows an African heritage. To put it plainly, white men were sleeping with black women, but black men were not sleeping with white women.http://web.mit.edu/racescience/in_media/what_dna_says_about_human/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 02:29
Vanuatu
But that doesn't address the question I raised.

For men at least, YDNA charts the paternal origins, so why does it commence later in the chain and not at the start, in Africa, or at the point where the markers are strongest?

I made an error in my previous post, my YDNA is 35% British Isless, not Scandinavian, but I have 3% Scandinavian DNA, so I would have thought I would have had a British YDNA, certainly not Japanese which shows as a very small percentile.

The MtDNA, afaik, doesn't have any influence on the YDNA, that is, it doesn't change or add to it, but can have certain influences on total genetic make up.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 02:54
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu
But that doesn't address the question I raised.

For men at least, YDNA charts the paternal origins, so why does it commence later in the chain and not at the start, in Africa, or at the point where the markers are strongest?

I made an error in my previous post, my YDNA is 35% British Isless, not Scandinavian, but I have 3% Scandinavian DNA, so I would have thought I would have had a British YDNA, certainly not Japanese which shows as a very small percentile.

The MtDNA, afaik, doesn't have any influence on the YDNA, that is, it doesn't change or add to it, but can have certain influences on total genetic make up.



Hi toyomotor, I know this is an area of study for you, I think this is an explanation:

The “Received” column at the right shows how much of the ancestral DNA the current generation received from their parent.

The “% of Original” column shows how the percentage of GGGGG-grandmother’s DNA is reduced in each generation.

The “Expected” column shows how much DNA, “on average” we would expect to see in each generation, as compared to the “% of Original” which is how much they actually carry.

I intentionally made the chart, above, reflect a scenario close to what we could expect, on average. However, it’s certainly within the realm of possibility to see something like the following scenario, as well.

Percentage Ancestral DNA Segments 2

In the second example, above, neither you nor your parent or grandparent inherited any of the Native segments.


At least 3.5% of European Americans carry African ancestry, though the averages vary significantly by state. In South Carolina and Louisiana, about 12% of European Americans have at least 1% African ancestry. In Louisiana, too, about 8% of European Americans carry at least 1% Native American ancestry.
Another way that history shows up in contemporary genomes is in what researchers call a sex bias. By looking at the kinds of DNA that are passed down only by mothers, they can calculate how many of a person’s ancestors from each population were male and female. In all three populations, they found the same signal: European ancestors tended to be male, while African and Native American ancestors tended to be female. That imbalance reflects the fact that for much of U.S. history, European men were the most aggressive colonizers, Mountain says. This mixing seems to have started almost immediately after the first European colonizers and African slaves arrived in North America. “It suggests that really early U.S. history may have been a time of a lot of mixture,” Bryc says.

The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 20:09
Vanuatu
Thanks for those links, I'll read them more closely over the week end, but I didn't see which DNA the tables referred to so I suspect that they refer to the autosomes rather than the YDNA ot MtDNA.

In my case, as I know diddly squat about my biological father, I'm speculating that he could be the contributor of the D21a1 YDNA, which is basically exclusive to the Jomon people of Japan, who are likened to Japanese Aborigines, and people of the Andaman Islands. The geographic seperation is explained by the Out of Africa Great Coastal Migration about 50kybp.
Quote The coastal route theory is primarily used to describe the initial peopling of the Arabian peninsula, India, Southeast AsiaNew Guinea, Australia, near Oceania, coastal China, and Japan.[8][9] It is linked with the presence and dispersal of mtDNA haplogroup M and haplogroup N, as well as the specific distribution patterns of Y-DNA haplogroup C and haplogroup D, in these regions.[4][6] The theory proposes that humans, likely similar to the Negritos or Proto-Australoids of modern times, arrived in the Arabian peninsula from Africa, then on the southern coastal regions of the Indian mainland, followed by spread to the Andaman Islands and modern-day Indonesia, and thence branching southwards to Australia and northwards towards Japan.[9] National Geographic's Genographic Project uses the term 'Coastal Clan' to describe the initial human groups of Y-DNA haplogroup C who expanded eastwards out from Africa along the coastal route around 50 kybp (kiloyears before present; thousands of years before present).[10]
from Wiki.

The migration date has been revised since the above articlle was written and is more
 likely now to have been upwards of 55kybp.
 I'll need to get back to reading about this, as the article doesn't answer the question 
as to why my prevalent links aren't reflected in my YDNA Haplogroup, which is the main 
question I'm asking.






I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 20:28
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu
Thanks for those links, I'll read them more closely over the week end, but I didn't see which DNA the tables referred to so I suspect that they refer to the autosomes rather than the YDNA ot MtDNA.

In my case, as I know diddly squat about my biological father, I'm speculating that he could be the contributor of the D21a1 YDNA, which is basically exclusive to the Jomon people of Japan, who are likened to Japanese Aborigines, and people of the Andaman Islands. The geographic seperation is explained by the Out of Africa Great Coastal Migration about 50kybp.
Quote The coastal route theory is primarily used to describe the initial peopling of the Arabian peninsula, India, Southeast AsiaNew Guinea, Australia, near Oceania, coastal China, and Japan.[8][9] It is linked with the presence and dispersal of mtDNA haplogroup M and haplogroup N, as well as the specific distribution patterns of Y-DNA haplogroup C and haplogroup D, in these regions.[4][6] The theory proposes that humans, likely similar to the Negritos or Proto-Australoids of modern times, arrived in the Arabian peninsula from Africa, then on the southern coastal regions of the Indian mainland, followed by spread to the Andaman Islands and modern-day Indonesia, and thence branching southwards to Australia and northwards towards Japan.[9] National Geographic's Genographic Project uses the term 'Coastal Clan' to describe the initial human groups of Y-DNA haplogroup C who expanded eastwards out from Africa along the coastal route around 50 kybp (kiloyears before present; thousands of years before present).[10]
from Wiki.

The migration date has been revised since the above articlle was written and is more
 likely now to have been upwards of 55kybp.
 I'll need to get back to reading about this, as the article doesn't answer the question 
as to why my prevalent links aren't reflected in my YDNA Haplogroup, which is the main 
question I'm asking.







When I read the articles it seems to be saying (correct me) that the African would have been bred out, if the children in a given population were fathered by white men for  6 generations.
You know the original Kenyan whose DNA exists today in many populations and was traced back to homo sapien origins? That line is unique as far as I understand most can't be traced in an unbreakable line. Is that correct? Thanks
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2017 at 03:01
Vanuatu
Yes, that's the way I understand it, and, if the white men were, for example, predominantly of a Celtic background, then the YDNA would be R1a1b.

Testing of that persons autosomes would reveal the deep African heritage, as well as any other influence, such as say Scandinavian.

Interesting to note that I have Dupuytrens Contracture, which is hardening of the tendons of the hand and/or fingers which progresses to the stage where the fingers cannot completely flex. This affliction is virtually confined to people of Scandinavian origins, and is often called Vikings Disease. This confirms a Scandinavian connection somewhere along the line.

I not from reading the article, briefly, that test results are also reflective of the testing companies priorities. I've had my YDNA tested by two companies with the same D2a1b2a1a result, but I've only had the MtDna, Backbone Test and Autosomal Test done with one company which doesn't give a lot of info.

But getting back to the OP, I'm interested in the peopling of the Americas. Some North American Natives appear to have decidedly asian features, which, in my mind, would reflect the Beringian theory of migration. Others have more European phenotypes. Comparing the latter with South Americans, the southerners (all?) have asiatic phenotypes, also reinforcing in my mind the Beringian theory, although they could also have travelled down the coastline from Asia.

Another theory gaining traction is that at least some of them, like the Pacific Islanders, originated in and around Taiwan, and arrived by sea. These ideas are still the topic of hot debate and I eagerly await the outcome.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2017 at 03:12
Vanuatu
From FTDNA-My Ethnicity results table
African0%
South Central Africa
< 1%
East Central Africa
0%
West Africa
0%
New World0%
North and Central America
< 2%
South America
0%
Central/South Asian0%
Central Asia
0%
Oceania
0%
South Central Asia
0%
East Asian10%
Northeast Asia
10%
Siberia
0%
Southeast Asia
< 1%
Middle Eastern0%
Asia Minor
0%
East Middle East
0%
North Africa
0%
West Middle East
0%
European85%
British Isles
55%
East Europe
25%
Finland
0%
Scandinavia
5%
Southeast Europe
0%
Iberia
0%
West and Central Europe
0%
Jewish Diaspora2%
Ashkenazi
2%
Sephardic
0%
I often wonder why I try.
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