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Historical Continuity, Large Systems and Future

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Baron
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2011 at 05:40
The following post is a comprehensive answer to a concern raised by Pikeshot in Debt Ceiling thread about how to turn around the situation we are currently in created by the global financial and business elite led by the elite in the US, so my personal thanks and appreciation to him for getting me started in this line of thought while looking for a solution. Also I would like to thank this website where I am able to present my ideas and also to all forum members who I have been able to learn from and share ideas with. So here goes:

In an earlier post we have discussed the matter of why China and India with their billion plus populations present a clear and present potential existential risk (if it is not yet a threat) for the planet. For the last several centuries people of European origin have taken the lead, while Muslim power centers have fallen apart, China was a power, but it never quite asserted itself in the global scene.

If we look at the time line since the advent of Industrial age, several things become clear, Britain and France both industrialized early and had large overseas empires and populations within these empires. Germany and Japan soon became industrialized and both of these nations had a native population probably larger than Great Britain or France. Soon they became competing powers. Bolshevik take over of Romanov empire, formation of Soviet Union, its drive for industrialization brought another sizable nation as a great power in the international stage.

In WWII, Germany gave a valiant fight, but it lost to a bigger, but less industrialized Soviet Union. Japan also gave its best, but it also lost out to a much bigger and slightly more technologically advanced USA. Britain and France after the loss of their colonial possessions and the loss of their former imperial size, no longer remained great powers.

So in all these goings on, one factor shines through, that when human beings are pushed to a corner, they will fight for survival with everything they have got, and when everything else is equal, the size of a nation will make a big difference in who will win in the event of a conflict.

These factors, I believe, has not been adequately analyzed or studied by national strategists, or may be they have been, but remains top secret and not known to the public. But I would argue that because of a lack of thinking in planetary scale about what is happening to the power dynamics and balance of power between nations, our business and foreign policy elites, are failing to see the big picture and the future implications of their collective current actions.

As things stand today, people are complacent that oh, these poor Chinese, and these half fed Indians, how will they become rulers of the world, unfortunately it is the result of centuries of racial prejudice and arrogance that is clouding the thinking even for the best of thinkers, it is my humble opinion. Never underestimate an adversary, it is always best to know as much about them as possible and who best knows them than their cousins and their neighbors, who had been dealing with them for thousands and thousands of years.

If we continue this current policy of free trade and neo-liberalism (which has nothing to do with liberalism, but everything to do with trade liberalization) in the interest of the global business elite and their enrichment, it is my opinion, that it will bring the world to precipice. Because for the first time it will transfer global leadership and power centers to China and India from the West. Some people may argue, why is that a problem. I will then fall back on my theory of Historical Continuity, that it is what could be called, not a smooth transition, but a perfectly disruptive transition, which will not bode well for the planet. It is my hope that it will not happen, as it may increase the likelihood of Nuclear Standoff with Hydrogen bombs (1000 times more powerful than Hiroshima bombs I have heard, where a Hiroshima size bomb is used as a detonator of these more advanced bombs). I would also argue that societies such as Han Chinese and Hindu Indians have been for centuries suffered under the yoke of Mongol, Manchu and Muslim rules. They have just made the transition from agrarian subsistence farming societies to advanced industrial countries, in case of India, it is just starting and they are still going through this transition, whereas China has almost completed this transition. Societies such as these, I would argue are not in a position to play great power roles or planetary leadership roles (you can take a vote among global population excluding those in China and India and see the result, may be pew will come forward with this project) and the chances of making mistakes by them are far greater than less.

So it will be in Humanity’s greater interest (which includes Chinese and Indians), that we seek a more sustainable road map for a smooth transition of the global power scene. The first step in this direction, I believe will be to scrap GATT/WTO based free trade and make trade an integral part of our global power transition scheme. I can hear the yeah shout from the anti-globalization crowd. What I propose is the following new global security and trade architecture:

A)West: North America, EU, Eastern EU (Russia+Ukraine+Belarus+Georgia+Armenia), Oceania and Israel (lead by US, EU and Russia)

B)New East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere (East Asian Union): Japan, Korea, ASEAN 10 and Bangladesh (led by Japan, Korea, Indonesia and Vietnam)

C)Central Asian Union: Turkey, Azerbaijan (a land bridge is needed via Armenia), 7 stan’s and Mongolia (needs a land bridge to Kazakhstan via Russia or if Russia provides a land bridge and a port on Pacific side, Mongolia will have the choice to become a part of East Asian Union, group b) (led by Turkey, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and Pakistan)

D)African Union (led by Egypt, Ethiopia, Nigeria and South Africa)

E)Latin American Union (led by Brazil, Mexico and Argentina)

F)GCC+Syria+Jordan+Yemen+Lebanon (led by Saudi Arabia)

G)Iran, Iraq (led by Iran)

H)India, Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka

I)China, Taiwan, North Korea

The rationale behind this security and trade architecture is to ensure the Global supremacy of group A, while this supremacy ensures the security and consolidation of groups B-F/G and to make sure that China and India can not become a competitor for group A, for the foreseeable future. Both China and India are currently using and bribing the wayward and self serving elite and their greed in group A, who in turn are using the corporate media and Republican party as part of their tool box in this subversion effort. While China and India are gaining capital and know how from the West using its business elite, it is also using tech firms in Israel and Russia to gain weapons technology it currently cannot get from the West, because of export restrictions.

A new paradigm will be achieved by creating the above group of nations and keeping them under the Western global security and trade architecture, while excluding China and India from this architecture. This does not mean that China and India will be excluded from trade, but the following rules will be recommended for trade:

- every nation shall be covered by a common security pact between the members of its group, such as today's NATO, so there will a NATO like structure for each of these groups A-F
- all of these groups from A to F (possibly G in the future) will cooperate with each other on security
- group A will lead this set of groups (B-F/G)
- every nation shall have free trade with their group members
- if some item of trade is not available within the group, then it should be sought in associated groups (A-F/G)
- only when an item is not available within the group or within associated groups (A-F/G), the item should then be sought from other countries (G, H or I) and a preference should be given to a more democratic country among them
- if any group decides to not join the associated groups (A-F/G), then that group will loose both security and trade privilege
- visa free travel will be used by countries as before within the the associated groups (A-F/G), and free migration and guest worker programs will be allowed within a particular group. For example, East EU citizens will be allowed by rest of group A to migrate anywhere within this group for replenishing any perceived labor shortages in return for a special arrangement where Russia allows leasing of land and migration by group B and group C countries, with preference given to Russian speaking population in Central Asia, for Eastern Siberia with port access near sea of Japan and land access from Mongolia, to prevent any further migration there from China. Similarly Turkey may continue its visa free travel and work program for Syria and expand it to Iraq to possibly bring these two countries into group C, when conflict subsides in these two countries.

The above rules will mean that group A will lead as the status quo leading group, while groups B, C, D, E and F will be associated groups working under the leadership of group A. For the time being G will remain outside. Countries in groups H and I will not be included in group A led associated groups (A-F/G). When North Korea decides to jump ship from China and unify with South Korea, it will be included in group B. Group G will be allowed to become an associated group under group A, when it agrees to resolve its conflict and differences with group F.

The US of A, as the largest nation in group A will remain the undisputed leader of the global associated groups (A-F/G), till the time when a consolidated and combined EU+Eastern EU is able to become a co-leader. Group H and I will not be allowed to become part of this global associated group, for the foreseeable future, until such times when the associated groups are consolidated and have become ready to defend themselves against the strategic threat from groups H and I.

The breakup of Ottoman into many different countries may have allowed the West to exploit the resources in these countries, but it has also created tremendous instabilities as well, which the world is currently dealing with. Israel is a left over from that legacy. This breakup of Ottoman along with India’s partition in 1947, contributed to the emergence of the phenomenon of “Islamic Terror”. But these threats pale in comparison to the much more existential threat that is taking shape in the countries with billion plus populations, which are industrializing at a fast pace, with full help, aid and connivance of the elite of the West. So while the world is busy with Israel-Palestine conflict and Taliban in Afghanistan, India is actively trying to feed fuel to the fire of Islamophobia along with the Israel lobby and its associated Islamophobic cottage industry. China is keeping aloof from these and trying to side itself more with resource rich Muslim nations, such as Iran, Sudan and making overtures to other Gulf Arab nations as well. India is also being touted as a balancer for China, but what makes anyone think that India will be a more dependable and subservient ally. Because of their size, it is my firm belief, that neither India nor China will be satisfied with a subservient role to the US or the West, their ambition is to become number one and two and rule the world, like USA and the West does today collectively. And in their effort to become number one, they are now taking full advantage of all the turmoil and internecine fights that are taking place on the global stage:

- GWOT, a crusader fight that GWB initiated on Muslim countries such as Afghanistan and Iraq, as a revenge for 9/11 and a deterrence to prevent such attacks in the future, Al Qaeda and Islamic extremism was portrayed as the main existential threat for the West. This has created a tremendous feeling of mistrust and ill feeling between the West and Muslim countries
- Israel-Palestine problem with similar effect as above
- Shia-Sunni conflict in the Middle East

Essentially these are providing the diversions and smoke screens for both China and India to carry on with their agenda to unseat the US and the West as the preeminent global power from world stage, so they can terrorize their neighborhood and make the world a much more inhospitable place in their neighborhood. Even resource rich countries in far away Africa, Central Asia and Latin America are in their target list for resource exploitation in their new global imperial strategy.

So what I am proposing is that, with US, West and Russia as the lead, the remaining smaller countries of the world, get organized into groups and form a tight knit global community of nations, so we can be prepared for this looming threat in our horizon.

If you really want to get a good idea of the nature of the threat, please talk to any knowledgeable individual from any of the neighbor nations of China or India, they will give you a comprehensive and clear idea of what we are dealing with here.

Now lets focus a little on US political scene. How to bring this wayward beast (elite) under control and channel its energy to more productive and patriotic purposes.

The first thing that struck me is the fact that how such a small number of rich folks or elite control such a large number of people, how do they do it, why do they do it and how can this control be taken back by the regular joe in the US. Lets look at income distribution:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

In the first table, please look at the last entry at the bottom. 1.5% of the US household makes $250,000 or above, that translates to a population of about 4.5 million people.

Not all of these people are part of the elite, the real elite are probably a small fraction of this group, but we could easily call the above group wealthy and influential and if they are not the elite, most of them are probably the middle managers that manage the affairs of the elite. Now we know there are no practical difference between a household that makes $249,000 and a household that makes $251,000, but for the purpose of this discussion we will call this 1.5% collectively the elite, the controllers and the rest 98.5% the controlled. Some people like to put the breakdown at 2% and 98%, but these are details, the concept is what is important.

Now I should make something clear. If the forum members have followed my earlier posts in this thread, then it should be amply clear that I do not believe in communism and I am not trying to make a manifesto for a looming class warfare. I myself have once played the role of a mini capitalist once, employed people although I no longer engage in that endeavor, while some people I used to know have went on to become fairly big business people. So I understand and appreciate the value of entrepreneurship, drive etc. and how valuable they are to any society. These factors however do not justify the way the elite have become a negative element for much of the societies of the planet, destroying social order, stability in some advanced countries such as the US where they have violated the unwritten social contract and not taking any steps for improvement in other poorer countries where we can see famines, migration, as well as wreaking havoc on the environment, all at the same time.

It is my belief that the elite in the US, in close collaboration with wealthy elites in other countries are largely responsible for much of the dysfunctional system we have on this planet today.

It might be interesting to note that this planetary elite, which includes celebrities, royals, big businessmen, billionaire heirs etc. has become a virtual mini nation by itself. Their life and priorities are indeed very different than us average joe’s, whether we are famine struck in Somalia or poor homeless and hungry in the US with a begging cup standing near a freeway off ramp. These elite hob nob with each other, worry about each other and marry among each other. I would venture to say, they might as well be from a different planet or start system and they consider us earthlings as not one of them, why else would they be so hell bent on fouling up irrevocably our little space ship called earth? Perhaps they have even built escape spaceships when our earth becomes unlivable, just kidding :). Technology is still not there yet, I think, for this to happen, but that does not stop this group of people to carry on, as if there is a way to escape from this planet, when it is all used up and can be thrown away like a dirty rag.

Now that we have a viable road map for future in the form of a new security and trade architecture, as described above, what are the steps we need to take to get us started on this road. I think we should take the following steps:

- explain and convince the business elite that what they are doing now is not in their long term interest, because they are chipping away at the very foundation on which they have built their wealth and business empire. The Chinese and Indians, once they have gotten all they need out of them, will not allow them to be powerful in their land, they will not be trusted as they will trust their own kind, which is their very own Chinese and Indian elite, so our elite should not betray their own people and nation, which is essentially what they are doing now
- I believe a good number can be convinced and brought into the democratic party fold, some among them are intelligent and have some sense of responsibility
- we need to reorganize the democratic party, and find a way to bring back the Southern democrats back into the democratic party, who were lost since the time of Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan
- we may need to de-emphasize the influence of LGBT and feminist crowd and move the democratic party closer to Christian conservative and Moral Majority (Bibles and guns), since most are in the 98.5% population group and are dependent on safety net such as Social Security and Medicare. Moving the democratic party towards more social conservative direction will increase the support among Black and Hispanic groups as well. About immigration, we need to draw a line, legalize the existing illegals, but at the same time take tough new measures for newly arrived illegals for housing and employment, so they can never become legal again, but rather given temporary employment visa’s in a guest worker program, even if they arrive here illegally. All these are crowd pleasing measures. The real measures that will bring results for this southern migration problem, will be drawing down the war on drugs, legalizing drugs and thus ending the prohibition era for these substances and then working to get a real tangible border less Latin American Union going with Brazil and Mexico in the lead, so jobs can be created there, so these people do not need to move here
- many of these measures will hopefully bring the following major voting blocks in the democratic party:

                * blacks, hispanics, a good chunk of the old Southern Democrat rural moral majority dependent on medicare and social security, young white liberals, independents, retired seniors in AARP, labor unions

so even if the LGBT and feminist causes are dropped/sidelined, since they will not vote Republican, mostly they will become apathetic but still vote democrat, since someday in the future they may get their causes back, when the situation becomes more favorable

The idea is to convince people that the rich are fooling the rest of us (and themselves as well) and running the country and the world to the ground, and at the same time helping the rise of China and India, so we need to stop them from this self destructive behavior, unless of course they see the light and come back to our patriotic fold.

May be we can finally show that these elite are really Chinese and Indian agents and put Chinese and Indian flags as labels on their party while we take up the US flag as the label of the Democratic party and shout USA, USA, USA


Edited by eventhorizon - 16 Aug 2011 at 09:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2011 at 17:57
As time passes, the above plan will become more and more relevant, every passing year. But then the premise for the above projection could turn out to be wrong, so I will make corrections as time passes. For now, this is how it looks.

Not to generalize, but as people of both groups H and I aspire for the top super power status of the world and someday hope to rule the planet, this ambition will affect more and more of the expatriate community of these regions, living in areas within the associated groups, making their loyalty to the associated groups goals and plans questionable. So an increasing number of people like these will suffer from divided loyalties. It is also important to note that the desire to make their home region a super power surpassing the US, is more of a burning ambition among the expatriates of these regions, as they are exposed to the world much more than the people who run the show in these countries.


Edited by eventhorizon - 09 Aug 2011 at 18:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2011 at 20:25
http://www.deathbychina.com/

I don't agree with the economics of Peter Navarro and Greg Autry, but they accurately picked up China as the greatest threat for the US in the foreseeable future. They, however, have no clue why China became such a threat, which I have explained in detail in this thread. The factors that make China a threat, the same factors will make India the next big threat for the US, after China.

The other mistake they make is that they vilify the Chinese communist party, but the fact is, I would like China to have a communist one party system for as long as possible, because it will continue to screw up China and not get things right, a democracy in China with a viable multi party system, though a temporary set back for them, will make China much more powerful and dangerous. Since there is a functioning democracy in India, it makes India more stable and failure proof, which makes it that much more dangerous in the long run.

They also do not provide a comprehensive solution on how to confront this twin threat, which I have done in a post above.

They don't have kind words for Kissinger. Indeed I think I can agree that he is probably a War Criminal as well as an idiot of first order, who has put the US in a situation where it is today. All this however is on hindsight. If Soviet Union, a bungling failing system would take over China, it would have been that much better, as with its fall, both might have fell apart at the same time, which would probably give us the independence of Xinjiang, Tibet and possibly even Inner Mongolia, if not for Kissinger and his fascination for Chinese history and culture and his efforts to open up China to the world. The Chinese I am sure have a lot to thank this man and should put him up on a pedestal and worship him, like Chairman Mao. The following video called Trial of Henry Kissinger by Christopher Hitchens, may shed some more light:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2011 at 21:17
The fault lines that exist in these two large systems are:

- China: the three Autonomous regions, Inner Mongolia is pretty much a lost cause, as there are 90% Han living there, but Xinjiang and Tibet are still at play. Associated groups need to make efforts to enrich and empower the minorities in all three regions, possibly by giving asylum in their countries

- India: Kashmir, North East Christian tribal people, an indigenous Maoist communist insurgency and the biggest of all is the 150-200 million Muslims. Again associated groups need to enrich and empower these minorities in their respective regions and if possible by giving asylum in their countries

When and if they get aggressive and start terrorizing their neighborhood, crossing some threshold level, then there should be efforts to bring them under control, using the above fault lines, tightening the screws, if you will.



Edited by eventhorizon - 09 Aug 2011 at 21:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2011 at 07:46
Syria's Bashar Al Assad, is not alone, he is part of the Global elite, that does not treat us human beings as their equal, so it does not matter that we literally become cannon fodder or anti aircraft fodder or machine gun fodder. They seem unperturbed, wearing their tailored suits and ties, carefully brushed hair, just an epitome of neatness, while some of their sycophants clap in admiration, from what seems like lushly decorated assembly halls to show to the world that they are credible and professional and they know what they are doing. Of course, they know exactly what they are doing, when they turn off power and 8 premature babies die in incubators.

And the joker diplomats from BRIC nations, come apleading, please please stop this violence, it is just too much for the sanity of our govt. and people to continue to support this, it just looks bad on us on world stage. You cannot do this to us, after all we have done for you and continue to do, stopping UN security council action on your country.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2011 at 17:46
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44082979/ns/world_news-asia_pacific/
China launches sea trials of its first carrier
By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN


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http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/mccain-won-t-apologize-calling-tea-partiers-hobbits-173115794.html
Quote Constituent: "What I'm here to do is ask you for your apology."
McCain: "What apology is in order?"
Constituent: "Because that was very clumsy of you"
McCain: "Was there anything wrong with what I said?"
Constituent: "Are you saying you're not apologizing?"
McCain: "I don't know what to apologize for."
Heard in the back: "For calling tea partiers hobbits!"
McCain: "What I said was true. It's unrealistic and unfair to the American people to tell them that we have to pass a balanced-budget amendment to the Constitution before we would act. If anyone misunderstood that than(sic) of course I would apologize. ... But it's not my fault if they misunderstood. ... I am sorry if I was misunderstood. But I am not sorry for what I said. Why should I if it was a fact?"

Priceless
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http://www.salon.com/news/china/index.html?story=/news/feature/2011/08/13/sino_us_stephen_glain
The Pentagon's new China war plan
Despite budget woes, the military is preparing for a conflict with our biggest rival -- and we should be worried
BY STEPHEN GLAIN
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http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/08/201181112111261161.html
The manufacturing imperative
Despite the rise of service based economies, manufacturing remains an integral part of success.
Dani Rodrik Last Modified: 13 Aug 2011 09:48
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http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/witness/2011/08/2011810113949471720.html
Africa Rising
The extraordinary story of how a large rural area of Ethiopia is taking itself out of poverty.
Witness Last Modified: 10 Aug 2011 15:12

An inspiring story of how a quarter of a million people lifted themselves out of poverty through self help.
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Disclaimer: The following is not my personal opinion or the opinion of this website
To admins: Please feel free to delete, if it is violating any forum rules
http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/gaddafi-obama-bush-cheney-rumsfeld-all-war-criminals/3760
Quote Gaddafi, Obama, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld – All War Criminals
Posted on May 5, 2011 by Rick Bronson

It is being reported that Libya’s Muammar Gaddafi will be indicted for war crimes by the International Criminal Court on charges that could include unlawful detention, torture, persecution and murder.  I would like to understand how this International Court works and who decides who will be prosecuted and who will not. 

George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld falsified evidence that was used as cause for invading Afghanistan and Iraq.  In Iraq hundreds of thousands of innocent women and children were literally murdered in the most heinous fashion imaginable.   And the international criminals who perpetrated these crimes walk about openly among us.

This brings us to the death of Bin Laden.  As Obama has already violated international law by invading Libya without cause and committed war crimes in killing Gaddafi’s grandchildren, one would have to ask how Gaddafi is being distinguished as a criminal and Obama is not.  You see they want to legitimize Obama’s actions and they figure they might as well take care of Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld while they are at it. 

Let us look at what happened in Pakistan.  Once again, Obama sent an invasion force into a foreign country to make war, in violation of not only our Constitution but international law.  Why?  Because it was an opportunity to make it acceptable for what he had done in Libya. 

When the news came out about the murdered little children the American people started looking at one another and judging the actions their country was taking in their names.  So they bring the hated Bin Laden out of deep freeze and put on a stage play wherein they killed the terrible terrorist.  Of course they violated international law in doing so, but the American people were no longer looking at each other in judgment, but rather were praising the unlawful act.

President Obama cannot order any person to death without a due process of law.  This is not only U.S. law but it is international law.  But the American people, in accepting the violations because they supposedly resulted in the death of Bin Laden, have made legitimate the murder of the three little children in Libya.  You see if it is acceptable to go into one country and assassinate a person, it is acceptable to do so in another.

It may be acceptable for some of the American people, but it is still illegal and morally reprehensible. 

And that is not all.  They took it a step further.  As Gaddafi is to be charged with torture, they also had to clean up their hypocrisy in that arena.  That is why you have the propagandists coming out and saying that finding Bin Laden was a direct result of the torture conducted at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba under the direction of Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld.  Now the American people are supposed to say torture is good and acceptable because it resulted in getting Bin Laden. 

People remember, justice is a double edged sword, it cuts both ways.  So now when some country tortures one of our soldiers to get information they deem necessary to get someone the people in their country considers to be a bad guy; well you know what, we just have to accept it, because we have set the standard. 

This whole Bin Laden thing is nothing more than a smorgasbord of lies wherein the American people are expected to pick and choose whatever elements it takes to justify illegal invasion, executive ordered murder, and torture as acceptable to them as individuals.

God let the people see they are selling their souls.

11 Responses to Gaddafi, Obama, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld – All War Criminals
Will says:
May 5, 2011 at 9:25 am
I can live in two different worlds, one where Bin Laden is still alive and commiting mass acts of genocide on innocents, or one where he isn’t doing that. Call me crazy for choosing the latter?
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brian s says:
May 5, 2011 at 10:32 am
hey will i have been saying this for the last 9 years these @#$%^&s have no one govering them there rich with power the whole bush family are a bunch of criminals and there good friends cheney and rumsfeld where are they now living high on the hog laughing at all of us the bush leaves office and gets a free 2 million dollar addition put on his estate guess who paid for that the tax payers.the bush family is cornering the fresh water stock with t bone pickens and dealing with china behind are backspretty soon were going to be fighting over water thought i let you know that there is no hope for us until someone start the revolution i would love to start one but two many people are scared the goverment has big plans for us i believe they are going to drop a plague on us or round us up and put us in concentration camps.people like me that speak out there going to come for us first the conspiracy’s are all abought to come to truth another crash is coming you have any money get it out of the bank because there going to take it and say deal with it goodluck fellow 99ers
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Clark kent says:
May 5, 2011 at 11:48 am
Over my dead body, brother. I fought for my countrymen 43 years ago, and I’ll do it again.
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brian s says:
May 5, 2011 at 12:15 pm
hey clark i have a good friend who’s 81 now fought in korea and the goverment doesn’t help he barely surviving on his pension i talk to him once a week he moved down to virginia figuring he would get the help veterans administration and they tell him to wait in line it’s really sad i think abought my grandfather who fought in world war 2 and my own father that was in veitnam they both got sh*t but mental anguish because of that i never enlisted i will fight on my own soil but not on someone elses i really hope there treating you right and i hope you fared well lets hope china doesn’t invade us they could take us out in a minute and the reason i say that any thing happens in this country it’s lacks a dazy abought any thing on this continent
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Clark kent says:
May 5, 2011 at 12:33 pm
We could nuke China for a week, and probably still not kill all of them. Let’
s hope it never comes to that. War sucks !
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brian s says:
May 5, 2011 at 12:51 pm
i here you if you think abought if they didn’t keep all are service men in war unemployment would be 10 times worse that’s the sad reality that is whats kept this world going war war without it we would be bored
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handle says:
May 5, 2011 at 2:19 pm
I appreciate your smart comments really. But the twits who commented against this article probably aren’t smart enough to understand what you’re trying to say.
brian s says:
May 6, 2011 at 9:16 am
handle i know my comments maybe off the wall after my last three years of hell and seeing all the wrongs get rewarded and the people that do right get punished im beyong angry with this country speaking for myself i feel alone in my thoughts i have to vent and hope some of you are aware of the horrors to come lost it all.i cant even get a job in the supermarket it’s pathetic been an electrician for twenty years no work and no hope.so i know my ramblings may stray away from the actual title
J. K. Jones says:
May 5, 2011 at 5:40 pm
I truely believe that Bushes (the whole family), Chaney and the rest of that administration should go on trial for their crimes. They lived as criminals, protected by the powerful. I have watched these people and others like them closely since I was a young Airman during Vietnam War.
Growing up, like many Americans, I watched many of my family members suffer from their service from the First World War through Vietnam. Some wounded mentally, and phically. Then be victumized by corrupt politicians. My family and I never believed in America right or wrong. You can never make the world a better place I serving evil. I truely love my country for the goodness that I have seen and lived with. But I am ashamed of the Evil I have seen done by some of our leaders.

Now I am watching our country descend into the caos of self destruction that so many civilizations suffered. I see only one solution to this situation, and that is – each person must struggle to become the best person they can become. I belive you have to ask yourself what is the best a person can be, then spend your life trying to become that. Ulitmately, Truth, Justicce, Mercy, Kindlyness towards each other is our only hope – the world’s only hope. This along with the ability to think for yourself is paramount.We have to visualize the best of these virtues and struggle to become that. Along with learning the skills of consultatuon and listening without self projection.
Americans and the peoples of the world need to become the seekers of absolute truth.
American Horse
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Mark Schumacher says:
May 5, 2011 at 7:11 pm
Dick Cheney is a piece of garbage. And then some.

http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/tricky-dick-cheney-flirts-with-prison/938
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Lucifer says:
May 6, 2011 at 4:00 am
Obama is following international law. The US is the Zionist world police man. International law is an oxymoron.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2011 at 23:52
With regarrd to breaching rules, the only thing I can see is that it's generally prefereble not to quote the whole of a long document that can be linked to. Makes it easier to read the thread is all.
 
Bringing in a few facts about the International Criminal Court.
 
1) It was only set up in July 2002, and therefore has no jurisdiction over any acts committed before that.
 
2) It is only binding n states that have ratified it.
 
3) 44 UN member states have not done so and therefore are not subject to its juridiction.
 
4) They include Libya, the US, Russia, China, India, Pakistan and Israel.
 
So yes I have some difficulty in seeing how the court has jurisdiction over Gadaffi, but the case was referred to it by the UN Security Council, which may give it legitimacy. Interesting to see any reaction from the US which is vehemently (both parties) against ratifying the court.
 
 


Edited by gcle2003 - 14 Aug 2011 at 23:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2011 at 09:31
Graham, thanks for the comments. I posted the whole article as an exception, because I thought it was too interesting, specially the comments, to not display in full, as many are probably not aware that there is this view also in the US and its not so uncommon. If you want me to keep just the link and remove the body of the article and comments, please let me know.

The comments of war veteran 99er's (unemployed people who have already run out of 99 weeks of unemployment insurance) was revealing, I thought.

I think all civilized countries of the world should join the ICC, as I believe the majority of any civilized country would never willingly want to commit massacres or any kind of crimes against humanity. More often than not, it is the elite who are sometimes fooling the masses into unwittingly committing some unfortunate crimes and atrocities. Becoming a part of and signatory of ICC will make it easier to isolate the countries that has not reached this level of civilization. If the USofA is the leader of the free world, the champion of human rights, it needs to take a lead on this ICC issue, not a back seat, and I commend the EU for taking the lead on this.

A few comments about this thread, it has been a process of discovery and exploration. I am a little preplexed at the conclusions reached and the road map recommended as a result. On first look, a casual observer may even make the mistake of thinking that it must be coming from a far right anti immigration crowd like the famous (Dr.) David Duke, for example, or at least parts of it may seem like that. Will it still be acceptable as a road map for Blacks, Mestizo's and whites in the US to unite in a common cause and take back their democracy, even if such a strange theory was promoted by a complete outsider, lets say an extra terrestrial alien, hypothetically speaking of course. And what about the Chinese and Indians who are to be isolated and given the last preference in trade, to prevent their rise, till the last, after all other people have sufficiently risen, is that something sane people will accept as a necessary evil?

Of course, it is all building castles in the air, a way to keep an idle mind engaged, and there is a snow ball's chance in hell, that anyone in the real world, will take such ideas seriously. But I keep wondering, what will happen if such ideas are independently arrived at from other diverse sources, as I already see parts of it happening, in bits and pieces, here and there, it seems.



Edited by eventhorizon - 15 Aug 2011 at 09:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2011 at 14:40
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/roubini41/English
Is Capitalism Doomed?
Nouriel Roubini
2011-08-15

Quote To enable market-oriented economies to operate as they should and can, we need to return to the right balance between markets and provision of public goods. That means moving away from both the Anglo-Saxon model of laissez-faire and voodoo economics and the continental European model of deficit-driven welfare states. Both are broken.

The right balance today requires creating jobs partly through additional fiscal stimulus aimed at productive infrastructure investment. It also requires more progressive taxation; more short-term fiscal stimulus with medium- and long-term fiscal discipline; lender-of-last-resort support by monetary authorities to prevent ruinous runs on banks; reduction of the debt burden for insolvent households and other distressed economic agents; and stricter supervision and regulation of a financial system run amok; breaking up too-big-to-fail banks and oligopolistic trusts.

Over time, advanced economies will need to invest in human capital, skills and social safety nets to increase productivity and enable workers to compete, be flexible and thrive in a globalized economy. The alternative is – like in the 1930s - unending stagnation, depression, currency and trade wars, capital controls, financial crisis, sovereign insolvencies, and massive social and political instability.

Nouriel Roubini is Chairman of Roubini Global Economics, Professor of Economics at the Stern School of Business, New York University, and co-author of the book Crisis Economics.

Copyright: Project Syndicate, 2011.
www.project-syndicate.org
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2011 at 22:45
Originally posted by eventhorizon eventhorizon wrote:

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/roubini41/English
Is Capitalism Doomed?
Nouriel Roubini
2011-08-15
[QUOTE]So Karl Marx, it seems, was partly right in arguing that globalization, financial intermediation run amok, and redistribution of income and wealth from labor to capital could lead capitalism to self-destruct (though his view that socialism would be better has proven wrong).
Well no, communism and capitalism have been shown not to work. Capitalism first after 1929 and then communism in the '80s. Socialism - government manipulation of the private marketplace for the benefit of the majority - so far hasn't failed anywhere economically though it has run into trouble politically as vested interests preach against it.
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Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2011 at 22:46
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Curtis
The following are BBC documentaries produced by Adam Curtis. They are available in DVD form here:
http://catalog.kpfk.org/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=KPC&Category_Code=Z
http://www.kpfk.org/

Financial crisis, bubbles and the role of computer:
All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace Part One Love and Power
1-2 All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
1-3 All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
1-4 All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
1 5 All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace

Balance of nature, feedback systems and dependence on simplistic cybernetic/electronic models:
All Watched Over By Machines of Loving Grace - 2 - The Use and Abuse of Vegetational Concepts
(caution: not appropriate for children)

About Neocons, Radical Islamists and role of religion in politics:
Power Of Nightmares 1of6
Power Of Nightmares 2of6
Power Of Nightmares 3of6
Power Of Nightmares 4of6
Power Of Nightmares 5of6
Power Of Nightmares 6of6



Edited by eventhorizon - 18 Aug 2011 at 05:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2011 at 06:45
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Originally posted by eventhorizon eventhorizon wrote:

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/roubini41/English
Is Capitalism Doomed?
Nouriel Roubini
2011-08-15
Quote So Karl Marx, it seems, was partly right in arguing that globalization, financial intermediation run amok, and redistribution of income and wealth from labor to capital could lead capitalism to self-destruct (though his view that socialism would be better has proven wrong).
Well no, communism and capitalism have been shown not to work. Capitalism first after 1929 and then communism in the '80s. Socialism - government manipulation of the private marketplace for the benefit of the majority - so far hasn't failed anywhere economically though it has run into trouble politically as vested interests preach against it.


Definitely agree, unbridled capitalism, Robber Baron style, caused the failures of 1929 Great Depression and the 2008 Great Recession (continuing on to present) while Democratic Socialism worked after introduction of New Deal (Social Security & Medicare) in the US and the welfare state economic systems in EU countries post WW II. Although many people are claiming, even Nouriel Roubini above, that EU safety net policies were too generous and have caused the debt crisis, my feeling is that although efficiency could be improved in some safety net benefit structure, so the difference between working salary and unemployment benefit is much higher than it is now, which would lead more people to look for work more aggressively rather than sitting on their behind and live on dole - the main and most important factor behind the debt crisis was not excessive social spending, but it was rather a function of the peculiarity of EU transition process, which we discussed before in the Euro Economy thread.

The biggest problem seems to be is that with introduction of new technologies and new ideas, the elite tend to take advantage of them faster and hijack the democracy, through subversion of the political class and judiciary, while people play catch up and eventually take back control of politics and govt., or at least try to unsuccessfully.

If you look at the video's above, which you may have already seen before, a very peculiar thing stands out. Ayn Rand and her radical anti-religious philosophy of Objectivism, devoid of any morality, but selfish individual greed, seems to be at the heart of current anti-Tax and small govt. craze of the Tea Party and Conservative Republicans. But the funniest thing is that they have combined this idea with the Neocon idea of using religion in politics, so the effect is that now the Religious Right is now spouting Ayn Randian ideas, which are absolute contradiction in terms. It seems funny and ironic, but the result is  anything but funny.

I think I see an Achiles Heel of the Republican Party in this basic and fundamental contradiction, because Religion (specially Christianity of any denomination) is all about taking care of the sick, poor and the disadvantaged, it can never reconcile with godless Randian libertarianism ,whose origin is in Russian intellectual movement as a reaction to the Bolshevik communism/socialism. This movement picked up the opposite of socialism/communism which is individualism, but it was still a god less selfish pursuit of happiness driven by human base instincts such as greed and sensual pleasure, and diametrically opposed to virtues such as altruism and collective well being, promoted by most religion based morality. Atheism was in their bones, if I am allowed to say that, just as it was for the communists:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand
Quote You have heard no concepts of morality but the mystical or the social. ... For centuries, the battle of morality was fought between those who claimed that your life belongs to God and those who claimed that it belongs to your neighbors–between those who preached that the good is self-sacrifice for the sake of ghosts in heaven and those who preached that the good is self-sacrifice for the sake of incompetents on earth. And no one came to say that your life belongs to you and that the good is to live it. - John Galt, in Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand


Neocon led Republicans who are following Leo Strauss's idea, that the masses need to be ruled and led, united under noble, useful and beautiful myths and lies, drilled into them through the propaganda of the media and demagogues talking point speeches, successfully combined these two seemingly contradicting elements of thoughts, Randian individualism and Social Conservatism of Religious Right aka Moral Majority.

What I am proposing (as mentioned in my previous long post) is that the Democratic Party needs to woo back the Religious Right or cultivate its own religious wing, so it can try to take over the Social Conservative agenda, with an emphasis on love and compassion for the poor and disadvantaged (read safety net and social spending such as education/training) and thus get a good chunk of the moderates, independents as well as the Religious/social/cultural conservatives, even at the expense of the social liberal Feminist(abortion rights)/LGBT groups. This way we can put the cross hair on the Randian radical small-govt. anti-tax-the-rich crowd and separate them from the Religious conservatives. This beautifully unites the socially conservative poor Blacks and Hispanics with the white conservative working/middle class and take them away from the clutches of the conman Neocon led anti-tax, small govt. Republicans. There has to be aggressive polarization, even class war fare style, to take the political control from the elite, back at the hand of the people. Fire must be played with fire, in my opinion.

This whole movement towards social conservatism for the Democratic Party, also jibes beautifully with the entire concept of Historical Continuity, developed in this thread, which I consider as a positive and beneficial asset for society, as it increases cohesion and reduces disruption, as long as it does not become too reactionary and thus work against adoption of new ideas and innovations in science and technology.


Edited by eventhorizon - 18 Aug 2011 at 07:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2011 at 10:32
On modeling of human societies or eco systems based on electronic circuits with feedback loops or cybernetics or geodesic domes, as is described in some of the video's above, plainly these are preposterous ideas, because:

- any mammal brain that processes color video in real time, do pattern recognition, coordinate motor movement, and in case of higher animals such as humans or chimpanzee who have some level of linguistic abilities, the amount of processing power in these massively parallel bio-molecular computing machines, is so huge that not even the most powerful super computer today reach the level of a single human or chimpanzee brain. Lesser animals or plants have less complex systems in their anatomy.

- what this means is that our current computing resource is not anywhere near the ability we need for modeling such complex systems, which is also true for eco-system or the bio-sphere, as that system is a super-set of not just human-society, but the flora, fauna and other relevant systems, such as the climate/weather system.

- in short, it can be concluded that these complex systems or combination of systems, for the time being, are beyond the reach of modeling, in any reasonable fashion. The best we can hope for is modeling of ants and ant colonies for the time being and see if we can get some level of understanding of this modeling business. But even the lowly ant and its colony will not be that easy or simple to model, so this apparently smaller and more reasonable target will remain an insurmountable mountain to conquer, for many decades it seems.

Some attempts at ant colony modeling:
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/complexity/models/antcolonies/
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/complexity/models/antcolonies/page9.html



Edited by eventhorizon - 18 Aug 2011 at 11:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2011 at 21:13
GWOT is a diversion from the real economic threat coming from the direction of large systems, no Muslim country can compete economically with US, EU or even Russia. When the game has been exposed, then suddenly there is talk of the need for mutual co-existence, multi culti etc. from the usual suspects. What does this mean then, I think it means we are right on target.

Can we take any chances, based on empty promises, essentially banking on the good sense, judgement and benevolence of some very large group of human beings who has suddenly become rich and powerful lately? Why does it smell like an oxymoron?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2011 at 09:15
Considering the poor performance of the US:
- the over reaction after 9/11
- the trillions spent on TSA and two wars
- several hundred thousand collateral damage in the wars which permanently alienates a section of humanity
- partisan bickering stage managed by the elite to create smoke screen and then steal billions from treasury and the economy, while the country looses out in the greater economic war to China and India

Because of the above, it would be fair for other countries and regions:

- not to put all eggs on one basket
- not depend on the US led West anymore and
- look forward to the emergence of a Chinese and Indian led world

But even in that situation, the regional Unions will become even more relevant for self protection, although it will be difficult to achieve unity of purpose for these Unions, as China and India will be meddling to undo these efforts. So time is of essence to make them happen before China and India become more powerful and resourceful, which will increase their reach and capability and thus enable them to shape events in their favor.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2011 at 08:54
I am increasingly of opinion that people such as myself and others below who have reached similar conclusions that China is going to rule the world, soon, such prophets of doom and their rhetoric will make no difference to policy makers in the US and there is no way to prevent this from happening, mainly because people are who they are and what they are because of long history and it is not possible to change one person or a group or a nation overnight or in a few years, so people will remain asleep and the inevitable is going to happen:

http://www.piie.com/publications/papers/paper.cfm?ResearchID=1913
The Inevitable Superpower: Why China's Dominance Is a Sure Thing
by Arvind Subramanian, Peterson Institute for International Economics
Article in Foreign Affairs, Volume 90, Number 5, September/October 2011.
August 23, 2011
© Foreign Affairs. Reposted with permission.
Arvind Subramanian is senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics and at the Center for Global Development. This article is adapted from his book Eclipse: Living in the Shadow of China's Economic Dominance (2011).
http://www.piie.com/eclipse.cfm

http://www.amazon.com/When-China-Rules-World-ebook/dp/B002SZUDI4/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1315600368&sr=1-1
When China Rules the World: The End of the Western World and the Birth of a New Global Order [Kindle Edition]
Martin Jacques
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imhUmLtlZpw

A comparison of the rise of China and India:
http://www.smh.com.au/business/differing-strengths-of-india-and-china-make-a-quinella-a-smart-bet-20110909-1k1rw.html
Differing strengths of India and China make a quinella a smart bet
William Pesek
September 10, 2011

So for those who care and want to protect their future in such a world, must take heed. I guess I see now why some would want to stick with the stronger horse for their future. I think I understand a little better the motivation behind such sentiments than I used to.



Edited by eventhorizon - 10 Sep 2011 at 16:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ramesh V.Naivaruni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2011 at 19:54
In ICC or other forum of the world the rules are framed in such a way that it is always pro-developed and hence other developing countries are little less optimistic in entering into such forums.
RAMESH.V.NAIVARUN
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