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Hypocrisy

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    Posted: 29 Jan 2015 at 02:40
I've been ruminating on the idea of hypocrisy in the western world lately, especially in light of two events.

One: King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia dies, and western political leaders are crying in their beer, and saying what a lovely chap he was. He presided over a country in which one could (and has been) beheaded for blasphemy, witchcraft, or assorted other similar offenses. Torture and mutilation are possible for lesser items. Women there are chattels, and cannot drive, or indeed do much of anything without express consent of a male relative. But....need we say, they have oil, and money, and are not playing the silly bug**r game that such as Iran and N Korea are doing, and so of no little value. Hence the eulogies. 

Two: The movie "American Sniper" is raking in the dough, a movie about a fellow who made no bones about the fact that he was quite OK killing on an industrial scale. I don't give a flying f**k about Iraqis, the real life character this movie is base upon said. They're savages, and pulling the trigger is no problem. The myriad complexities of this rather pointless conflict, and America's role in it, were as nothing to the sniper. They were savages, he killed who came in his sights (160 or so), that was it. So much for the western concept of life being sacred, and the urgings of enlightenment thinking.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2015 at 00:58
Captain:
One: Indeed, politics (and oil) make for strange bedfellows. But then again, Americans have always had a facination with royalty.
 
Two: Rewind the film. Each one was some mothers son, fighting for his own beliefs. To describe them as less than human is in itself a condemnation of the indoctrination that this man received. He's obviously a racist and happy to kill people he sees as subhuman, what if they were Americans, would he still describe them in such terms.
 
To be a soldier is to obey orders and kill those considered to be enemies. But treat them with the same respect that one would treat our own killed in combat.
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Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

I've been ruminating on the idea of hypocrisy in the western world lately, especially in light of two events.

One: King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia dies, and western political leaders are crying in their beer, and saying what a lovely chap he was. He presided over a country in which one could (and has been) beheaded for blasphemy, witchcraft, or assorted other similar offenses. Torture and mutilation are possible for lesser items. Women there are chattels, and cannot drive, or indeed do much of anything without express consent of a male relative. But....need we say, they have oil, and money, and are not playing the silly bug**r game that such as Iran and N Korea are doing, and so of no little value. Hence the eulogies. 

There is an Arabic proverb that roughly translate to "Be careful what you wish fore, you might just get it" although it is far more poetic in Arabic. The late King was no Gloria Steinem by western standards but compared with the crop of idiots appointed a week after he died in this ongoing purge he is comparatively more liberal than her when it comes to frame of reference.

As for the ISIS like punishments people keep comparing Saudi Arabia to, at least there is a very complex due process in place that is comparable to early 20th century Europe championed by the late king who purged the judiciary of the dinosaurs who presided over it largely due to regional and familial ties where modern evidence like DNA, fingerprints and digital technology are more used an outmoded confessions and witnesses. 

Abdullah was no progressive but he was light years ahead of probably two thirds of his people.

Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

Two: The movie "American Sniper" is raking in the dough, a movie about a fellow who made no bones about the fact that he was quite OK killing on an industrial scale. I don't give a flying f**k about Iraqis, the real life character this movie is base upon said. They're savages, and pulling the trigger is no problem. The myriad complexities of this rather pointless conflict, and America's role in it, were as nothing to the sniper. They were savages, he killed who came in his sights (160 or so), that was it. So much for the western concept of life being sacred, and the urgings of enlightenment thinking.


Didn't you get the memo, when white people do something its democracy and civilization. When brown people do it it is savagery. ISIS are boy scouts compared with Narco-terrorists south of the US borders but since they feed the white suburban need for drugs and fill banksters pockets with money and run by the whites of Mexico no one talks:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2015 at 00:53
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

I've been ruminating on the idea of hypocrisy in the western world lately, especially in light of two events.

One: King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia dies, and western political leaders are crying in their beer, and saying what a lovely chap he was. He presided over a country in which one could (and has been) beheaded for blasphemy, witchcraft, or assorted other similar offenses. Torture and mutilation are possible for lesser items. Women there are chattels, and cannot drive, or indeed do much of anything without express consent of a male relative. But....need we say, they have oil, and money, and are not playing the silly bug**r game that such as Iran and N Korea are doing, and so of no little value. Hence the eulogies. 

There is an Arabic proverb that roughly translate to "Be careful what you wish fore, you might just get it" although it is far more poetic in Arabic. The late King was no Gloria Steinem by western standards but compared with the crop of idiots appointed a week after he died in this ongoing purge he is comparatively more liberal than her when it comes to frame of reference.

As for the ISIS like punishments people keep comparing Saudi Arabia to, at least there is a very complex due process in place that is comparable to early 20th century Europe championed by the late king who purged the judiciary of the dinosaurs who presided over it largely due to regional and familial ties where modern evidence like DNA, fingerprints and digital technology are more used an outmoded confessions and witnesses. 

Abdullah was no progressive but he was light years ahead of probably two thirds of his people.

Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

Two: The movie "American Sniper" is raking in the dough, a movie about a fellow who made no bones about the fact that he was quite OK killing on an industrial scale. I don't give a flying f**k about Iraqis, the real life character this movie is base upon said. They're savages, and pulling the trigger is no problem. The myriad complexities of this rather pointless conflict, and America's role in it, were as nothing to the sniper. They were savages, he killed who came in his sights (160 or so), that was it. So much for the western concept of life being sacred, and the urgings of enlightenment thinking.

 
Didn't you get the memo, when white people do something its democracy and civilization. When brown people do it it is savagery. ISIS are boy scouts compared with Narco-terrorists south of the US borders but since they feed the white suburban need for drugs and fill banksters pockets with money and run by the whites of Mexico no one talks:
Al-Jassas
 
You play the racialism card when it is not relevant. The acts of brtality demonstrated by ISIL, are condemned, as are similar acts committed by the drug cartels.
 
Brutality is brutality, wherever you find it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2015 at 03:00
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

I've been ruminating on the idea of hypocrisy in the western world lately, especially in light of two events.

One: King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia dies, and western political leaders are crying in their beer, and saying what a lovely chap he was. He presided over a country in which one could (and has been) beheaded for blasphemy, witchcraft, or assorted other similar offenses. Torture and mutilation are possible for lesser items. Women there are chattels, and cannot drive, or indeed do much of anything without express consent of a male relative. But....need we say, they have oil, and money, and are not playing the silly bug**r game that such as Iran and N Korea are doing, and so of no little value. Hence the eulogies. 

There is an Arabic proverb that roughly translate to "Be careful what you wish fore, you might just get it" although it is far more poetic in Arabic. The late King was no Gloria Steinem by western standards but compared with the crop of idiots appointed a week after he died in this ongoing purge he is comparatively more liberal than her when it comes to frame of reference.

As for the ISIS like punishments people keep comparing Saudi Arabia to, at least there is a very complex due process in place that is comparable to early 20th century Europe championed by the late king who purged the judiciary of the dinosaurs who presided over it largely due to regional and familial ties where modern evidence like DNA, fingerprints and digital technology are more used an outmoded confessions and witnesses. 

Abdullah was no progressive but he was light years ahead of probably two thirds of his people.

I see what you are getting at with your caution on wishes. Some statesmen have have confidently expected gifts wrapped in gaudy paper for their efforts, and then gone into spasms when they were unwrapped.

Your defense, however, that at least Saudi is applying century old legal practice now when it is condemning witches, warlocks, blasphemers, and infidels to public beheading seems to demand a new and revised definition on the concept of "tepid". In my experience, many individuals have shrunk from the rigors of modern life, and retreated into a fantasy to balm their fears. Rarely though, I'd suggest, has a whole nation done so.

Or have they? I'd be very interested in your assessment of how many in the kingdom would like a little liberalization, and how many enjoy the experience of being an extra in a movie about medieval times. The two thirds figure seems a little harsh. We have a sizable community of Saudi students in your captain's corner of the world, and most, from what I have seen, are quite level headed, and enjoy the comings and goings of a liberal democracy, despite a few obsessive notions about religion.
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

Two: The movie "American Sniper" is raking in the dough, a movie about a fellow who made no bones about the fact that he was quite OK killing on an industrial scale. I don't give a flying f**k about Iraqis, the real life character this movie is base upon said. They're savages, and pulling the trigger is no problem. The myriad complexities of this rather pointless conflict, and America's role in it, were as nothing to the sniper. They were savages, he killed who came in his sights (160 or so), that was it. So much for the western concept of life being sacred, and the urgings of enlightenment thinking.


Didn't you get the memo, when white people do something its democracy and civilization. When brown people do it it is savagery. ISIS are boy scouts compared with Narco-terrorists south of the US borders but since they feed the white suburban need for drugs and fill banksters pockets with money and run by the whites of Mexico no one talks:


Al-Jassas

I have seen that memo, although it is getting a little yellowed and faded with age. Many on the left in this part of the planet in fact spend a good deal of time browbeating themselves for their own sordid group  histories, while trying to idolize the noble savage. This is just another form of distortion, a revision of history to fit with contemporary fashions and desires.

As for the Hispanic drug lords and their long running practice of violent dysfunction, well, nothing new here. We have poverty, oppression, inequality, and societies that have long since normalized a degree of violent behavior. Throw in some planeloads full of money, and there you are. Those that might have been labelled psychopaths in Sweden, or ended up as Wall St financiers in the US, are warlords in Mexico or El Salvador. By the way, a lot of that drug money is coming from poor inner city blacks, the folks that don't count in Washington deliberations.

No matter, ISIS is never going to be admitted to the international order of boy scouts. It is this corner of the world in which mass slaughter occurs because group A's version of the same religion as yours in just slightly different from group B's. Or because some pervert looked at someone's wife's ankles, and now he is going to get even by cutting his throat. This is Dysfunction A.J., with a capital "D". And it doesn't even need drug money to fuel it.

Be that as it may, I still feel some dismay that in 2015, millions are cheering on some dumb cracker from the Ozarks that is killing wholesale, because their own brand of tribalism trumps a more worldly view.


Edited by Captain Vancouver - 31 Jan 2015 at 03:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2015 at 05:36
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:


 
You play the racialism card when it is not relevant. The acts of brtality demonstrated by ISIL, are condemned, as are similar acts committed by the drug cartels.
 
Brutality is brutality, wherever you find it.


Indeed. Even the KKK devolved into irrelevancy because of it's excess in hypocrisy, greed and horrendous brutality. So to do i hope for the cartels and terror groups similar to IS or Al Qaeda


Edited by Panther - 31 Jan 2015 at 05:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2015 at 06:47
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

 
 
You play the racialism card when it is not relevant. The acts of brtality demonstrated by ISIL, are condemned, as are similar acts committed by the drug cartels.
 
Brutality is brutality, wherever you find it.

If it is true it is definitely not racialist. 

Drug cartels killed in Ciudad Juarez, a bridge and a river away from El Paso Tx., 3500 in one year and nearly 11000 in 4 years the overwhelming majority of them innocents who have no connection with drugs except living in that wretched city. And despite Gringos flocking to the city in their millions throughout the only 100 Americans died (more than what ISIS killed) and guess what colour most of them were? 

As horrible ISIS is they are still boy scouts compared with the American killing machine whether done by them directly or funded by them (Drug cartels, Iraqi death squads, Contras, Apartheid regime in Africa etc.). The difference is people justify their killing of the savages (whom they came to "liberate" as one guy not) while condemning amateurs.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2015 at 07:24
Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

I see what you are getting at with your caution on wishes. Some statesmen have have confidently expected gifts wrapped in gaudy paper for their efforts, and then gone into spasms when they were unwrapped.

Your defense, however, that at least Saudi is applying century old legal practice now when it is condemning witches, warlocks, blasphemers, and infidels to public beheading seems to demand a new and revised definition on the concept of "tepid". In my experience, many individuals have shrunk from the rigors of modern life, and retreated into a fantasy to balm their fears. Rarely though, I'd suggest, has a whole nation done so.

Or have they? I'd be very interested in your assessment of how many in the kingdom would like a little liberalization, and how many enjoy the experience of being an extra in a movie about medieval times. The two thirds figure seems a little harsh. We have a sizable community of Saudi students in your captain's corner of the world, and most, from what I have seen, are quite level headed, and enjoy the comings and goings of a liberal democracy, despite a few obsessive notions about religion.

Sorry to disappoint but I live here not you and I know the country in and out. I was not defending Abdullah, I was being cynical that what he did was considered radical reform (westernisation and destruction of traditional culture as my fellow countrymen who celebrated his death secretly characterise his "reforms") despite the fact that he moved the country institutionally an inch towards early 20th century modernity (a state of solid institutions instead of whims of people with authority and no rules to guide them). You have no idea how horrible things were 20 years ago (I am talking about medieval policies of practical feudalism with no barriers to them and people of influence running a mock with the country almost all of them "western educated"). He put an end to many of those practices albeit through a long process that was at least systematic.

As for who is more liberal, ask any of those living in your city whether they believe in sorcery, evil eye, democracy if it brings an outcome they don't like and justice for people who differ ethnically or religiously from them. We had several cases of "unequivalent marriages", that is marriage between people of different castes in our unofficial caste system and it was the "liberal western educated" elites who were the ones who raised hell when the government refused to prosecute the cases.  

In my country the definition of liberalism is exclusive to what to wear not what you believe.


Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:


I have seen that memo, although it is getting a little yellowed and faded with age. Many on the left in this part of the planet in fact spend a good deal of time browbeating themselves for their own sordid group  histories, while trying to idolize the noble savage. This is just another form of distortion, a revision of history to fit with contemporary fashions and desires.

Really? the "left" is browbeating themselves? That is news to me especially that the "left" championed the Iraq war and now defending the "secular" Bashar who murdered 200k of his people to keep up his sectarian regime.

Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

As for the Hispanic drug lords and their long running practice of violent dysfunction, well, nothing new here. We have poverty, oppression, inequality, and societies that have long since normalized a degree of violent behavior. Throw in some planeloads full of money, and there you are. Those that might have been labelled psychopaths in Sweden, or ended up as Wall St financiers in the US, are warlords in Mexico or El Salvador. By the way, a lot of that drug money is coming from poor inner city blacks, the folks that don't count in Washington deliberations.

No one is talking about those cartels the way people talk about ISIS despite the fact those cartels have more money, killed more people and are far more brutal than ISIS. And by the way they are gaining politically and expanding outside drugs and many of them have an actual ideology that guides them. Cartels are not that dissimilar than ISIS, the only difference is that they fill the pockets of the right people.

Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

No matter, ISIS is never going to be admitted to the international order of boy scouts. It is this corner of the world in which mass slaughter occurs because group A's version of the same religion as yours in just slightly different from group B's. Or because some pervert looked at someone's wife's ankles, and now he is going to get even by cutting his throat. This is Dysfunction A.J., with a capital "D". And it doesn't even need drug money to fuel it.

Boy you really have no idea about the region do you. I suggest you reread some of the material that I posted before about sectarianism and religious violence before you say ridiculous things like above. 

Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

Be that as it may, I still feel some dismay that in 2015, millions are cheering on some dumb cracker from the Ozarks that is killing wholesale, because their own brand of tribalism trumps a more worldly view.

And that is different from people cheering the 9/11 how? 

Oh yes, when we do it it is "freedom", when they do it it is savagery.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 02:23
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

 
 
You play the racialism card when it is not relevant. The acts of brtality demonstrated by ISIL, are condemned, as are similar acts committed by the drug cartels.
 
Brutality is brutality, wherever you find it.

If it is true it is definitely not racialist. 

Drug cartels killed in Ciudad Juarez, a bridge and a river away from El Paso Tx., 3500 in one year and nearly 11000 in 4 years the overwhelming majority of them innocents who have no connection with drugs except living in that wretched city. And despite Gringos flocking to the city in their millions throughout the only 100 Americans died (more than what ISIS killed) and guess what colour most of them were? 

As horrible ISIS is they are still boy scouts compared with the American killing machine whether done by them directly or funded by them (Drug cartels, Iraqi death squads, Contras, Apartheid regime in Africa etc.). The difference is people justify their killing of the savages (whom they came to "liberate" as one guy not) while condemning amateurs.

Al-Jassas 
 
Oh, so here we again with the Anti American rhetoric. As I said, brutality is abhorrent, wherever it may be found, regardless of race or religeon.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2015 at 02:17
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

I see what you are getting at with your caution on wishes. Some statesmen have have confidently expected gifts wrapped in gaudy paper for their efforts, and then gone into spasms when they were unwrapped.

Your defense, however, that at least Saudi is applying century old legal practice now when it is condemning witches, warlocks, blasphemers, and infidels to public beheading seems to demand a new and revised definition on the concept of "tepid". In my experience, many individuals have shrunk from the rigors of modern life, and retreated into a fantasy to balm their fears. Rarely though, I'd suggest, has a whole nation done so.

Or have they? I'd be very interested in your assessment of how many in the kingdom would like a little liberalization, and how many enjoy the experience of being an extra in a movie about medieval times. The two thirds figure seems a little harsh. We have a sizable community of Saudi students in your captain's corner of the world, and most, from what I have seen, are quite level headed, and enjoy the comings and goings of a liberal democracy, despite a few obsessive notions about religion.

Sorry to disappoint but I live here not you and I know the country in and out. I was not defending Abdullah, I was being cynical that what he did was considered radical reform (westernisation and destruction of traditional culture as my fellow countrymen who celebrated his death secretly characterise his "reforms") despite the fact that he moved the country institutionally an inch towards early 20th century modernity (a state of solid institutions instead of whims of people with authority and no rules to guide them). You have no idea how horrible things were 20 years ago (I am talking about medieval policies of practical feudalism with no barriers to them and people of influence running a mock with the country almost all of them "western educated"). He put an end to many of those practices albeit through a long process that was at least systematic.

As for who is more liberal, ask any of those living in your city whether they believe in sorcery, evil eye, democracy if it brings an outcome they don't like and justice for people who differ ethnically or religiously from them. We had several cases of "unequivalent marriages", that is marriage between people of different castes in our unofficial caste system and it was the "liberal western educated" elites who were the ones who raised hell when the government refused to prosecute the cases.  

In my country the definition of liberalism is exclusive to what to wear not what you believe.

Then you paint a rather sad picture of the country. I handful of "reformers" who can barely budge things along, widespread corruption at the top, and a populace that is (fantastically, in 2015) determined to hold it's spot in the middle ages. Or at least a large majority of them. One can find extremists anywhere, but in my experience those on the outer cusp are usually a very small minority.

Which leaves the question hanging in the air....why? Why so much Saudi, more so than other similar places (although certainly there are plenty of other examples of extremism, but this sort of thing is a horse of a separate breed.)

Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:


I have seen that memo, although it is getting a little yellowed and faded with age. Many on the left in this part of the planet in fact spend a good deal of time browbeating themselves for their own sordid group  histories, while trying to idolize the noble savage. This is just another form of distortion, a revision of history to fit with contemporary fashions and desires.

Really? the "left" is browbeating themselves? That is news to me especially that the "left" championed the Iraq war and now defending the "secular" Bashar who murdered 200k of his people to keep up his sectarian regime.

There is left, and then there is left. The ersatz version sold to America these days is really just capitalism lite, business as usual, but just don't become so removed from your spin doctor that you might actually find yourself smiling and nodding at a Sarah Palin speech. This is the left were Hillary Clinton must drop her "g's" (despite an immaculate and thorough education) when addressing the unwashed, as in- we is shrinkin' down government, and gettin' on top of the deficit. And we is makin' America strong!

A more honest left ( Ralph Nader, old time Democrats, the NDP in Canada) did not champion the Iraq war, nor the Syrian regime.

Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

As for the Hispanic drug lords and their long running practice of violent dysfunction, well, nothing new here. We have poverty, oppression, inequality, and societies that have long since normalized a degree of violent behavior. Throw in some planeloads full of money, and there you are. Those that might have been labelled psychopaths in Sweden, or ended up as Wall St financiers in the US, are warlords in Mexico or El Salvador. By the way, a lot of that drug money is coming from poor inner city blacks, the folks that don't count in Washington deliberations.

No one is talking about those cartels the way people talk about ISIS despite the fact those cartels have more money, killed more people and are far more brutal than ISIS. And by the way they are gaining politically and expanding outside drugs and many of them have an actual ideology that guides them. Cartels are not that dissimilar than ISIS, the only difference is that they fill the pockets of the right people.

I don't think any reasonable person can discount the actions of such groups, and there are other examples around the world. However, I still think it disingenuous if one is to suggest that the Middle East is not today a cauldron of political, sociological, psychological, and military turmoil.

Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

No matter, ISIS is never going to be admitted to the international order of boy scouts. It is this corner of the world in which mass slaughter occurs because group A's version of the same religion as yours in just slightly different from group B's. Or because some pervert looked at someone's wife's ankles, and now he is going to get even by cutting his throat. This is Dysfunction A.J., with a capital "D". And it doesn't even need drug money to fuel it.

Boy you really have no idea about the region do you. I suggest you reread some of the material that I posted before about sectarianism and religious violence before you say ridiculous things like above. 

No doubt, you could come up with some more salient features of this region. But let's review a few major features. An unmarried couple has sex after a party. In Copenhagen, the response is: so what? In Melbourne, a nod and a chuckle. In Manhattan, an eyebrow raised in a certain way. In Saskatchewan, grins and embarrassed flushed faces. In Saudi, death.

In Canada, the CBC radio puts on a program every Sunday that discusses various and myriad aspects of spirituality, whether that be the major religions, alternate ideas, or dissenting atheistic ideas. The response: modest interest, basically ho-hum. The response in Saudi: death. Are you starting to see a pattern here?

We come back to a basic question. Yes, there are nutbars and crazies all over. But it is the Middle East, currently, and a few select countries in this region, in which we are likely to the the national flags, and other regalia, if we were to look up "uptight" or "religiously crazed" in a major recognized dictionary. Why this is so is probably a complex, and I suspect in the final analysis, rather depressing question.

 
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

Be that as it may, I still feel some dismay that in 2015, millions are cheering on some dumb cracker from the Ozarks that is killing wholesale, because their own brand of tribalism trumps a more worldly view.

And that is different from people cheering the 9/11 how? 

Oh yes, when we do it it is "freedom", when they do it it is savagery.

Al-Jassas

I can see your point here, because tribalism and xenophobia cross boundaries with ease. In the case of US theaters, I guess my angst comes from the fact that a kid in rural Syria or Iraq may have little choice, given their education and job milieu, and social and security issues, as to what exactly their responses are going to be to certain events, but that kid from Georgia, or whatever, has greater latitude. 
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