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Iceland: Amerindian DNA was found

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2010 at 23:57
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

lirelou, that's what I thought. Whether Columbus could recognise a Chinaman or not, he ad anyone else in Europe would have said someone from China was from the East, just as they would now.  The Chinese are still viewed in Europe as coming from the East, even if they flew via LA and New York. And Californians don't consider Chinese as 'from the West'.

It was disingenuous of pinguin to mistranslate.
 
Reading 200-year-old memoirs doesn't help you recognise the people mentioned in them. Marco Polo wasn't even an artist, let alone a photographer.
 
There's a 16th century Japanese scroll somewhere depicting the battle of Lepanto that shows the Holy Roman Emperor wearing a toga, which is some indication of how far east and west could recognise each other at that time.


And what about Catayo? Just coincidence?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 02:11
Well, there are two reasons Columbus would have taken such people for 'Chinese'. First, there had been east-west along the spice and silk routes before the Turks overran the Byzantines, going back to at least Roman times, and the Mongols were certainly known in Europe, so some descriptions would have survived. Second, Colombus did adhere to the round world theory, though he miscalculated the earth's circumference. Certainly the hair and physical characteristics of any Amerindians blown off course would have been far closer to the description of Asians than Europeans or Africans.   

Edited by lirelou - 24 Nov 2010 at 02:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 05:53
Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

This brings up the broader question of how much smaller the world may have been in the past than is commonly imagined today.

 

Our concept of history today is the rigorous recording of accurate information, and the scientific checking of theories. This was quite different in the past though. In pre-industrial times, many did not have a sense of significant change over time. Certainly there were natural cycles, and people came and went. But the idea of change, and of progress, is more of a recent concept. Science and technology change the world, and give more of a sense of history.

 

The telling of “history” in the past was often more of a social event, meant to reinforce the status of certain individuals or groups, or sometimes just to serve as entertainment.

 

Also, much less was known of the world, and so a mention of some previously unknown geographical feature likely had little impact. There would be nothing unusual about being told there was some far away land that that few knew about. How much impact does the discovery of a new star or galaxy have in the media today?

 

So it is quite possible that epic voyages were made, new lands found; but they were not reported, or if they were, they caused little or no curiosity, and did not find their way into the historical record.

 

With regard to native Americans, it is interesting that those in eastern tribes often carry more European type facial features than tribes in the far west. Was someone dipping their toes into the gene pool long ago?

 

Here on the west coast of Canada, artifacts have been found that suggest Asia contact from before the renaissance era. Remnants of Junk type sailing vessels, and Chinese coins also correspond to native legends of visits from before the time of European arrival.


While I think I largely agree that ancient people did not in the same way as today believe in "progress" (alternatively we may say they did not experience the same changes), we should not exaggerate the "narrowness" of their world. There is evidence that at least some people knew about and travelled a substantial part of the world, well before the 15.th century.
an example: 13.th century Icelandic author, describing events, many times taking part as far as Russia, the Meditteranean, including the "Holy Land" and Sicily. Remember Iceland at that time a relatively newly colonised land, remote from the rest of Europe, a region allready for centuries with one centre for most of it: Rome and the Pope. At the same time Arabs and other muslims probably knew even more of the earth and conquerrors from Central Asia  invaded very much of both Asia and Europe east as well as west. There is a number of other examples, that even though people only had their own legs, or their horses for movements on land, and sails and oars on water, they could get far away.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 07:37
We should remember that Columbus saw these Amerindians or Inuits in the 16th century, 6 centuries after the Norse reached the Americas.

So we aren't talking here about fantasies of ancient people discovering the Americas, but simply about the unknown consecuences of Norse expanding West to the Americas, a fact that is certified by science.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 10:42
Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

This brings up the broader question of how much smaller the world may have been in the past than is commonly imagined today.

 

Our concept of history today is the rigorous recording of accurate information, and the scientific checking of theories. This was quite different in the past though. In pre-industrial times, many did not have a sense of significant change over time. Certainly there were natural cycles, and people came and went. But the idea of change, and of progress, is more of a recent concept. Science and technology change the world, and give more of a sense of history.

 

The telling of “history” in the past was often more of a social event, meant to reinforce the status of certain individuals or groups, or sometimes just to serve as entertainment.

 

Also, much less was known of the world, and so a mention of some previously unknown geographical feature likely had little impact. There would be nothing unusual about being told there was some far away land that that few knew about. How much impact does the discovery of a new star or galaxy have in the media today?

 

So it is quite possible that epic voyages were made, new lands found; but they were not reported, or if they were, they caused little or no curiosity, and did not find their way into the historical record.

 

With regard to native Americans, it is interesting that those in eastern tribes often carry more European type facial features than tribes in the far west. Was someone dipping their toes into the gene pool long ago?

 

Here on the west coast of Canada, artifacts have been found that suggest Asia contact from before the renaissance era. Remnants of Junk type sailing vessels, and Chinese coins also correspond to native legends of visits from before the time of European arrival.


While I think I largely agree that ancient people did not in the same way as today believe in "progress" (alternatively we may say they did not experience the same changes), we should not exaggerate the "narrowness" of their world. There is evidence that at least some people knew about and travelled a substantial part of the world, well before the 15.th century.
an example: 13.th century Icelandic author, describing events, many times taking part as far as Russia, the Meditteranean, including the "Holy Land" and Sicily. Remember Iceland at that time a relatively newly colonised land, remote from the rest of Europe, a region allready for centuries with one centre for most of it: Rome and the Pope. At the same time Arabs and other muslims probably knew even more of the earth and conquerrors from Central Asia  invaded very much of both Asia and Europe east as well as west. There is a number of other examples, that even though people only had their own legs, or their horses for movements on land, and sails and oars on water, they could get far away.

 
 

Yes, I quite agree with you. In fact, I think we may be surprised today to learn of the extent of voyages made in the past- perhaps much greater than we had thought.

 

But my point was not that these types of trips did not take place, but that given the psychology of the time, the commonly held paradigm, news of their occurrence would have been treated differently. With hindsight today, for example, we can see that Marco Polo’s travels were significant. But at the time, their impact was not really understood or appreciated. They were just more tales from over the horizon, true perhaps, or perhaps not.

 
Even Christopher Columbus himself never understood the true significance of his discoveries. His worldview simply did not include North and South America. He went to his death believing that he had explored outlying islands off the east coast of Asia.

 

The world was full of unknowns at this time, and finding that there was something of importance that was not know before was not particularly surprising.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whalebreath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 11:15
Quote Even Christopher Columbus himself never understood the true significance of his discoveries. His worldview simply did not include North and South America. He went to his death believing that he had explored outlying islands off the east coast of Asia.

He went to his death a raving religious lunatic-someone with  a tenuous grasp of reality at best.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 19:37
Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

 

But my point was not that these types of trips did not take place, but that given the psychology of the time, the commonly held paradigm, news of their occurrence would have been treated differently. With hindsight today, for example, we can see that Marco Polo’s travels were significant. But at the time, their impact was not really understood or appreciated. They were just more tales from over the horizon, true perhaps, or perhaps not.

 
Even Christopher Columbus himself never understood the true significance of his discoveries. His worldview simply did not include North and South America. He went to his death believing that he had explored outlying islands off the east coast of Asia.

 

The world was full of unknowns at this time, and finding that there was something of importance that was not know before was not particularly surprising.


It depends, I think, very much upon our examples. The early portuguese and Spanish voyages were supported from the "highest" places - princes, kings and queens and high ranking clergy.
Even the pope mediated between Spain and Portugal very early on, dividing the earth between them for exploration by treaties.


Edited by fantasus - 24 Nov 2010 at 22:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 20:45
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

lirelou, that's what I thought. Whether Columbus could recognise a Chinaman or not, he ad anyone else in Europe would have said someone from China was from the East, just as they would now.  The Chinese are still viewed in Europe as coming from the East, even if they flew via LA and New York. And Californians don't consider Chinese as 'from the West'.

It was disingenuous of pinguin to mistranslate.
 
Reading 200-year-old memoirs doesn't help you recognise the people mentioned in them. Marco Polo wasn't even an artist, let alone a photographer.
 
There's a 16th century Japanese scroll somewhere depicting the battle of Lepanto that shows the Holy Roman Emperor wearing a toga, which is some indication of how far east and west could recognise each other at that time.


And what about Catayo? Just coincidence?
What's that supposed to mean? I'm not disputing that Columbus thought he had seen some people from Cathay. Where you are wildly jumpinig the gun is thinking that because Columbus saw some people he thought came from Cathay, that they were actually Amerindians from America.
 
I see no evidence that (a) Columbus could tell a Chinese from, for instance, a Lapp or Siberian Mongoliam or (b) that when he wrote 'from the East' he actually meant 'from the West' or (c) when he wrote 'Catayo' he meant what we would call China. (At the time of the incident I think you'll find Portuguese navigators had not yet reached Polo's Cathay, though they may have reached Chin; Cathay remained therefore a somewhat mysterious place.)
 
Certainly that Columbus thought he saw Chinese is no evidence that he saw Amerindians.
 
Basically your interpretaton of the event just involves making things up to suit yourself.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2010 at 20:48
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

We should remember that Columbus saw these Amerindians or Inuits in the 16th century,
Dee-dum, dee-dum, dee-dum. What calendar would that be?
 
 
Quote 6 centuries after the Norse reached the Americas.

So we aren't talking here about fantasies of ancient people discovering the Americas, but simply about the unknown consecuences of Norse expanding West to the Americas, a fact that is certified by science.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 01:53
Fantasus, Yes, the Treaty of Tordesillas (1494), whose line was later amended when the Spanish and Portuguese agreed to trade the Philippines for what is today Brazil. That was Alejando VI, a Borgia (or Borges, en buen Castellano). I only mention this because HBO has a series on the Borgias coming up, and I wonder if Tordesillas will even get a side-scene.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 04:18
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Certainly that Columbus thought he saw Chinese is no evidence that he saw Amerindians.
 
 
He recorded in his notes, and was confirm by his son Fernando in the Admiral' bio, that he saw people in a boat in Galway which looked "Chinese".
 
If you don't want to believe it, your choice. But you can't deny the records exist.
 
Now, if they were Amerindians or Inuits, I don't know. Perhaps they were Sami or Turks riding a boat at the bay, who knows? But the record exist.
 
By the way, it is known Inuits reached Europe before Columbus, so what's the extraodinary in Columbus record? Absolutely nothing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 05:35
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

 
By the way, it is known Inuits reached Europe before Columbus, so what's the extraodinary in Columbus record? Absolutely nothing.

Where, when and by what means (do You mean kayaks?) "did they arrive in Europe before Columbus"? What is Your source?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 05:48
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Certainly that Columbus thought he saw Chinese is no evidence that he saw Amerindians.
 
 
He recorded in his notes, and was confirm by his son Fernando in the Admiral' bio, that he saw people in a boat in Galway which looked "Chinese".
 
If you don't want to believe it, your choice. But you can't deny the records exist.
 
Now, if they were Amerindians or Inuits, I don't know. Perhaps they were Sami or Turks riding a boat at the bay, who knows? But the record exist.
I don't deny it. Never did. I merely pointed out that is not evidence that Columbus saw Amerindians (Inuit or otherwise) in Galway.
Moreover I pointed out that you deliberately mistranslated the original to try and build up your non-existent case.
Quote  
By the way, it is known Inuits reached Europe before Columbus, so what's the extraodinary in Columbus record? Absolutely nothing.
Then why bring it up and keep on about it?
 
So where do you now get your evidence that Inuits made it to Europe before Columbus got to America?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 07:27
Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

...Where, when and by what means (do You mean kayaks?) "did they arrive in Europe before Columbus"? What is Your source?
 
There are reports of contacts with Inuits since the Middle Ages. Come on, Norse reached them, don't they? Why couldn't Inuits reach, once in a while, European lands?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 07:28
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

...
So where do you now get your evidence that Inuits made it to Europe before Columbus got to America?
Don't tell me you don't know it... either. Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 19:11
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

...
So where do you now get your evidence that Inuits made it to Europe before Columbus got to America?
Don't tell me you don't know it... either. Confused
 
I note yet again that you don't have any evidence-
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 20:25
If they have managed to date the transition of the genes to around 1000AD it seems beyond dispute they were brought over by the Vikings. I don't see how they are able to isolate genes chronologically, but then again I even know even less about genetics than cars.
 
The mongoloid features of some northern Europeans pinguin refers to is due to mixture with the arctic peoples of northern Scandinavia and northwest Russia, that historically were part of a larger cultural sphere extending east to Siberia. Though the predominant features are Caucasoid, if you go to the far north of my country you will see a lot of people with mongoloid facial features such as prominent cheekbones, wide flat faces and slanted eyes. I have known many such people, but it hasn't been a topic of here ever since racial science became politically incorrect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 22:25
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

.. 
I note yet again that you don't have any evidence-


I do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 00:46
Originally posted by Reginmund Reginmund wrote:

If they have managed to date the transition of the genes to around 1000AD it seems beyond dispute they were brought over by the Vikings. I don't see how they are able to isolate genes chronologically, but then again I even know even less about genetics than cars.
 
The mongoloid features of some northern Europeans pinguin refers to is due to mixture with the arctic peoples of northern Scandinavia and northwest Russia, that historically were part of a larger cultural sphere extending east to Siberia. Though the predominant features are Caucasoid, if you go to the far north of my country you will see a lot of people with mongoloid facial features such as prominent cheekbones, wide flat faces and slanted eyes. I have known many such people, but it hasn't been a topic of here ever since racial science became politically incorrect.
Dont say that, Pinguin will lap it up!Shocked
 
You don't have any truly Mongoloid people up there, but we have, namely people who are part Greenlander, they are common in Copenhagen. The Norwegians who have "slanted eyes" and "flat faces" don't look truly Mongoloid at all. Mongoloid is something else entirely. Real Mongoloids are some of the people that stand out the most in Scandinavia, only Blacks and people that look similar stand out more.
 
I gotta feeling that the people who think that some Scandis look Mongoloid-ish haven't really dealt with too many true Mongoloids. Not just the face, but the entire body is totally different.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 21:42

The wording "truly Mongoloid" raises questions I'd rather not derail the thread with.

The Greenlanders are immigrants, the Saamis were here even before the Indo-Europeans. If we start accounting for immigrants we'd also have to take into account East Asians who have immigrated to Scandinavia in the last few decades and had children with the natives, of which there are thousands.
 
I did not mean to say some ethnic Scandinavians look predominantly Mongoloid, in fact I stated they are predominantly Caucasoid, but some of them carry Mongoloid features that set them apart from Europeans further south. It's easily observed in many Norwegians, Swedes, Finns and Russians, but I have yet to see a Western or Southern European with such features.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 22:22
Well, East Asian features (particularly Inuit) can be seen just looking at faces. For the case of Amerindian ancestry it is a lot more difficult to find out, in most cases.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 04:30
Originally posted by Reginmund Reginmund wrote:

The wording "truly Mongoloid" raises questions I'd rather not derail the thread with.

The Greenlanders are immigrants, the Saamis were here even before the Indo-Europeans. If we start accounting for immigrants we'd also have to take into account East Asians who have immigrated to Scandinavia in the last few decades and had children with the natives, of which there are thousands.
 
I did not mean to say some ethnic Scandinavians look predominantly Mongoloid, in fact I stated they are predominantly Caucasoid, but some of them carry Mongoloid features that set them apart from Europeans further south. It's easily observed in many Norwegians, Swedes, Finns and Russians, but I have yet to see a Western or Southern European with such features.
That may be true, but just remember that Greenlanders used to be legally Danes. They're not immigrants. Their "input" has been here for some time, while the East Asians you metion are recent immigrants. Therefore you will find Danes who are part Greenlander, but who aren't Greenlanders themselves.
You may disagree with the use of "truly Mongoloid", but you claim that there are Scandinavians who have "Mongoloid" features, so you used the word. When I say "truly", I mean people who have features and ancestry in common with NE, E, SE and Central Asians. Scandinavians do not have features in common with East Asians or other Asians related to them, rather, they have Scandinavian features!
 
Maybe some people look a bit like Asians to you, but that's just a matter of your perception.


Edited by Jams - 27 Nov 2010 at 04:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 05:26
Originally posted by Jams Jams wrote:

Maybe some people look a bit like Asians to you, but that's just a matter of your perception.
As far as the thread is concerend, your point that people who have never seen Chinese or any related people at all confuse various other people with Mongols is what I am saying.
 
Columbus was such a person. His identification of the people he saw carries no weight one way or another.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 08:45
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

... 
Columbus was such a person. His identification of the people he saw carries no weight one way or another.


Why do you assume that? He was an educated man and certainly could associate the descriptions of Chinese that were widely known in Europe at his time. From were those descriptions came? Marco Polo, Arabs in China, Turks, etc.

The problem is not that. If we assume those weren't people from the New World (Inuits or Amerindians), then we have to find a way to justify the presence of those foreigners riding fragile canoes in Ireland at that time. Who were them? Where they came from? They couldn't be Europeans or Finish tribal fishermen at all! Columbus knew Scandinavia well, and certainly he was informed of many things we don't know now.


Edited by pinguin - 27 Nov 2010 at 08:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 08:48
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

... 
Columbus was such a person. His identification of the people he saw carries no weight one way or another.


So, Columbus is irrelevant now?... LOL
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gcle2003 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 21:18
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

... 
Columbus was such a person. His identification of the people he saw carries no weight one way or another.


Why do you assume that? He was an educated man and certainly could associate the descriptions of Chinese that were widely known in Europe at his time. From were those descriptions came? Marco Polo, Arabs in China, Turks, etc.
There's no reason to think Columbus ever saw a Chinese person. Marco Polo brought back no pictures. I doubt very much that any descriptions of Chinese people available in Europe at the time were at all accurate. Can you fiind even one depiction of a Chinese person anywhere in early Renaissance art?
 
Remember that in Columbus' time European maritime expansionplorer had reached Cathay.
 
Moreover Columbus was not really an educated man: he says he went to sea at ten, and his father owned a cheese stand and a tavern. Self-educated he was, in a period when there were no picture books, and the far east was still a land of mystery.
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Columbus was not a scholarly man. Yet he studied these books, made hundreds of marginal notations in them and came out with ideas about the world that were characteristically simple and strong and sometimes wrong, the kind of ideas that the self-educated person gains from independent reading and clings to in defiance of what anyone else tries to tell him.
 
And read the rest of that link for how Europeans of the time thought about China and the Chinese.
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The problem is not that. If we assume those weren't people from the New World (Inuits or Amerindians), then we have to find a way to justify the presence of those foreigners riding fragile canoes in Ireland at that time. Who were them? Where they came from? They couldn't be Europeans or Finish tribal fishermen at all! Columbus knew Scandinavia well, and certainly he was informed of many things we don't know now.
You just make this stuff up as you go along, don't you? When was Columbus ever in Scandinavia? What was he 'certainly' informed of that we don't know now?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 21:19
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

... 
Columbus was such a person. His identification of the people he saw carries no weight one way or another.


So, Columbus is irrelevant now?... LOL
Don't be silly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 22:17
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

...
You just make this stuff up as you go along, don't you? When was Columbus ever in Scandinavia? What was he 'certainly' informed of that we don't know now?


Again. You should read Columbus bio by his son Fernando. Colombus knew northern Europe. He was in Iceland in 1477.

"In May 1476, he took part in an armed convoy sent by Genoa to carry a valuable cargo to northern Europe. He docked in Bristol, England; Galway, Ireland and was possibly in Iceland in 1477."


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2014 at 16:53
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Yes, very much so, it confirms the ancient roots of the white man's infatuation with Mongol eyed women.


Actually, many people from Northern Europe has a curious resemblance with Asians. I am not saying that ALL people of northern Europe do, not at all. But some do. I guess most of that Asian input came from the artic in Europe and Central Asia, with peoples like the Sami and others. But a tinny fraction may have came from Inuits and Amerindians in the last 1000 years Shocked
 
Pinguin:
Don't say these people were from Brazil?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2014 at 11:03
Not Brazil. The origin of Amerindian DNA in Iceland more likely comes from Eastern Canada.
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