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Impact of colonialism in maps

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    Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 01:41
Let's talk about how much the world was changed by colonialism by watching the maps.

MAP1: Languages





Most of the today world is covered by Indoeuropean languages:
Five European languages (3 Latin languages, 1 Germanic and 1 Slavic) are widespread around the world:

* English (Europe, Asia, Africa, Americas, Oceania)
* Spanish (Europe, Americas, Oceania)
* French (Europe, Africa, Americas, Oceania)
* Portuguese (Europe, Americas, Africa, Asia)
* Russian (Europe, Asia)

Chinese dialects and Arab are the most widespread non-European languages. The rest of the world has a large number of less spread languages.

Before colonialism, European languages were only talk in Europe, and the populations that talked Portuguese, Spanish, English and French were relatively small, of just a few million people each.

MAP2: Scripts

Before the colonial times, alphabetic Latin and Greek scripts were confined to Europe. Today, those scripts spread through the world. In Green the Latin Alphabet, in red the Greek (Cyrilic) and in blue Arabic.











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fantasus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 09:46
I can´t ressist repeating some of my "pet hypothesis", so You are warned if You read further.
You are not entirely accurate, when You claim greek and latin were "confined to europe", since both languages, and letters, were spread all around the Medtitteranean, and to some degree further east, long before what we call the "colonialist era". Greece and especially Italy are both located in a central position in the meditteranean, what gives an advantage when the "power game" is about controlling those waters. Then in turn, that is an advantage for their languages. Later, when the european powers tried to control the world oceans the strategic favorable locations of course were as far out in the Atlantic  as possible, precisely were Portugal, Spain and Britain lies. The sizes of those countries were of lesser importance as the examples of Portugal, but also the Netherlands shows us. In the same way the russians, the muscovites, controlled the way eastwars by ladnd, so their languages could spread that way. I would even think the Arabians location were important for their spread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 14:50
You are right fantasus in your reservations to the usual legerdemain employed by the Penguin. We need not go into how those maps actually falsify reality so as to pursue "talking points"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 15:08
Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

I can´t ressist repeating some of my "pet hypothesis", so You are warned if You read further.
You are not entirely accurate, when You claim greek and latin were "confined to europe", since both languages, and letters, were spread all around the Medtitteranean, and to some degree further east, long before what we call the "colonialist era". Greece and especially Italy are both located in a central position in the meditteranean, what gives an advantage when the "power game" is about controlling those waters. Then in turn, that is an advantage for their languages. Later, when the european powers tried to control the world oceans the strategic favorable locations of course were as far out in the Atlantic  as possible, precisely were Portugal, Spain and Britain lies. The sizes of those countries were of lesser importance as the examples of Portugal, but also the Netherlands shows us. In the same way the russians, the muscovites, controlled the way eastwars by ladnd, so their languages could spread that way. I would even think the Arabians location were important for their spread.


What's your point, Fantasus? Look at the map of the distribution of European scripts and language DURING THE MIDDLE AGES, immediately before the Age of "Discovery", and you will find out that the Mediterranean no longer used European script, but only the European lands.

Yes, during Roman times you could find European scripts in north Africa and the Levante, I guess, but later those scripts were replaced by the Arab alphabet.

Don't pay attention to dr. Troll.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 15:44
Don't pay attention to dr. Troll.

So squawked the Penguin, but the facts here are such that all of this nonsense over "colonialism"  [European that is] as the catalysts for dominance of alphabet and language is nothing more than the typical guano trolled by this peripatetic poster. That he does not "confess" to the glaring aberrations in the maps he posted is just parr for his course...pretty soon we will have the UPU as an example of exploitation in the printing of postage! That he confuses convenient historical jargon such as "colonialism" for the factual is irrelevant so long as he can build the platform required for his rhetoric. I am surprised that in his vehemence he has not yet hit upon the fact that this forum by insisting upon the Latin alphabet and the acceptance of English as the means for communication represents but another example of colonialism and if such is so troubling for him then he should cease participation because it violates his ethical and political probity. Yes folks, the Internet is the apogee of victory for the colonialists of the world and if you do not desire to be marginalized you had best accept the rules!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 16:59
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


What's your point, Fantasus? Look at the map of the distribution of European scripts and language DURING THE MIDDLE AGES, immediately before the Age of "Discovery", and you will find out that the Mediterranean no longer used European script, but only the European lands.
Yes, during Roman times you could find European scripts in north Africa and the Levante, I guess, but later those scripts were replaced by the Arab alphabet.
Don't pay attention to dr. Troll.
It is really not so much of a guess, just remember much of the bible(New Testament) were originally written in greek, later translated into latin. And though I admit about the whole eastern and southern Meditteranean were under arab, turkish or similar "non-european" rulers about 1500, there was still at least greek-speaking peoples in some places, especially western Asia Minor, the Caucasian, but ok, they were exceptions.
But that is not the main point You ask for. So, what is my point? Again, my "pet idea": to draw attention towards the locations of countries of origin more than to the peoples. It is not so much some mystical "qualities" of the spanish language or culture, or the spaniards themselves, that made expansion possible, as it was they were located in a particular favorable place in a certain period. Polish, hungarian, german or italian could not easily do so, for the same reasons.


Edited by fantasus - 27 Jan 2011 at 16:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 17:37
I agree with you on that. There is nothing special in the European languages that spread the most. If they did it was only because the countries that spoke them were colonial powers. It wasn't that the languages themselves had some "superiority" that allowed them to spread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 19:09
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

I agree with you on that. There is nothing special in the European languages that spread the most. If they did it was only because the countries that spoke them were colonial powers. It wasn't that the languages themselves had some "superiority" that allowed them to spread.
Yes, of course. And they were not obviously more "fit" for being overseas colonial powers, except if we take the before mentioned factor into account.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2011 at 00:06
However, it is interesting that those languages are representative of large European language families. Spanish, Portuguese and French represent Latin languages. Those are languages that derivate of Latin and what more "western" than the very Roman Empire.
With respect to English, this language is representative of the Germanic family of languages. Curiously, English also has strong Latin and French influences, as an inspection to any English dictionary shows.
Finally, Russian is representative of slavic languages.

Now, turning into the scripts, English, French, Portuguese and Spanish use the Latin Alphabet, while Russian use cyrilic, a derivation of Greek. It is amazing how these "Euro-Mediterranean" scripts spread throught the world.




Edited by pinguin - 28 Jan 2011 at 00:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2011 at 02:26
Head for the hills, the Penguin is now going to deliver a lecture on the Glagolitic! No admission on just how ridiculous the maps are or as to the underlying reasons as to why certain states chose and continue to choose languages such as English or French (and even Portuguese) as lingua franca...but hey we will soon receive enlightenment over the intricacies of India's Official Languages Act of 1963.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2011 at 02:30
Illuminate us, crazy doctor. Contributions are welcome; critics aren't.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2011 at 09:27
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

However, it is interesting that those languages are representative of large European language families. Spanish, Portuguese and French represent Latin languages. Those are languages that derivate of Latin and what more "western" than the very Roman Empire.
With respect to English, this language is representative of the Germanic family of languages. Curiously, English also has strong Latin and French influences, as an inspection to any English dictionary shows.
Finally, Russian is representative of slavic languages.

Now, turning into the scripts, English, French, Portuguese and Spanish use the Latin Alphabet, while Russian use cyrilic, a derivation of Greek. It is amazing how these "Euro-Mediterranean" scripts spread throught the world.
Most europeans speak languages with "strong latin influences", and greek, I think, and often french or german, but english perhaps more than average, since the ruling parts of society had so strong connections with France and especially Normandy. and the west.
The place of origin of the "euro-meditteranean scripts" were as so much else located in the eastern part of the Meditteranean, as iof "civilisation" spread from the central region of the "old world" westwards. I speculate this movement were related to and partially depended upon progress in navigation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2011 at 00:39
Well, English is more Latin than German and other Germanic countries, but a lot less Latin than Spanish, Portuguese, Frech or Rumanian.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hebrewtext Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2011 at 14:34
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

 
Now, turning into the scripts, English, French, Portuguese and Spanish use the Latin Alphabet, while Russian use cyrilic, a derivation of Greek. It is amazing how these "Euro-Mediterranean" scripts spread throught the world.



yes amazing how this alef bet script , erupted at the south eastern corner of the Mediterranean in Canaan spread  to most parts of the planet.  orignally was used by the local people like the Moabite ,Edomite,Phoenicians and the Hebrews  .

by similar way also the Abrahamic monotheism dogmas/religions spread and use by most of the planet today originaly from Canaan/Israel.



Edited by Hebrewtext - 26 Jul 2011 at 14:58
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