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Interesting statistics of Portuguese trade

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    Posted: 09 Aug 2020 at 17:47
Below are screenshots from  James D. Tracy - The Political Economy of Merchant Empires State Power and World Trade, 1350-1750





I was just curious to find the average loss ratio figures and made a few calcs, so...


 

Observation 1. Portuguese transported more cargo from Europe to Asia than from Asia to Europe
Observation 2. The average ship loss ratio would be around 13.5%, the average passenger loss ratio would be 11.5%
Observation 3. The ship loss ratio was 2% higher for Asia-to-Europe travels, the passenger loss ratio was almost 5% higher for the same Asia-to-Europe travels


Edited by Novosedoff - 09 Aug 2020 at 17:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Novosedoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2020 at 18:01
The above figures kinda reminded me of another interesting page from Thomas Sowell's book on migration, which shows that even 2 centuries later life was still full of sh*t for sea travelers...

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2020 at 18:04
Excellent!
Portugal didn't even exist until the Templars were forced out of France. 
Who built these castles in Portugal with Templar iconography?

Convent of Christ (Tomar)

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Convent of Christ
Convento de Cristo
Castelo dos Templários e Convento de Cristo,Tomar, Portugal.jpg
A view of the Convent and Castle complex of Tomar
Convent+of+Christ+%28Tomar%29&groups=_ddd0a642d94a46a6d7b1ca8e1e7055f68d700dea
General information
TypeMonastery
Architectural styleManueline
LocationTomar (S£o Jo£o Baptista) e Santa Maria dos Olivais
Town or cityTomar
CountryPortugal
CoordinatesShow location on an interactive map39°36′17″N 8°25′3″WCoordinatesShow location on an interactive map39°36′17″N 8°25′3″W
Opened1160
OwnerPortuguese Republic
Official nameConvent of Christ in Tomar
CriteriaCultural: (i), (vi)
Reference265
Inscription1983 (7th session)

The Convent of Christ (PortugueseConvento de Cristo/Mosteiro de Cristo) is a former Roman Catholic convent in TomarPortugal. Originally a 12th-century Templar stronghold, when the order was dissolved in the 14th century the Portuguese branch was turned into the Knights of the Order of Christ, that later supported Portugal's maritime discoveries of the 15th century. The convent and castle complex is a historic and cultural monument and was listed as a UNESCO World Heritage site in 1983.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Novosedoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2020 at 18:10
If I am not mistaken Reconquista ended in Portugal in 13 century (almost 3 centuries before the same happened in Spain!), whereas the Templars ceased to exist in France in 14 century.

So supposedly Portugal did exist before the Templars were wiped out in France! Smile

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Excellent!
Portugal didn't even exist until the Templars were forced out of France. 
Who built these castles in Portugal with Templar iconography?



Edited by Novosedoff - 09 Aug 2020 at 18:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2020 at 18:24
Originally posted by Novosedoff Novosedoff wrote:

If I am not mistaken Reconquista ended in Portugal in 13 century (almost 3 centuries before the same happened in Spain!), whereas the Templars ceased to exist in France in 14 century.

So supposedly Portugal did exist before the Templars were wiped out in France! Smile

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Excellent!
Portugal didn't even exist until the Templars were forced out of France. 
Who built these castles in Portugal with Templar iconography?

Challenge!
No way, i'll dig see you soon
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2020 at 18:26
That was fast.
Where do you find the sovereign nation of "Portugal" in the Reconquista? Do you suggest that wiki using the word Portuguese to describe "reconquest" is retroactive sovereignty?

The 
Reconquista[note 1] (Portuguese and Spanish for "reconquest") was a period in the history of the Iberian Peninsula of about 780 years between the Umayyad conquest of Hispania in 711, the expansion of the Christian kingdoms throughout Iberia, and the fall of the Nasrid kingdom of Granada in 1492.

Edited by Vanuatu - 09 Aug 2020 at 18:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Novosedoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2020 at 18:46
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

That was fast.
Where do you find the sovereign nation of "Portugal" in the Reconquista? Do you suggest that wiki using the word Portuguese to describe "reconquest" is retroactive sovereignty?

The 
Reconquista[note 1] (Portuguese and Spanish for "reconquest") was a period in the history of the Iberian Peninsula of about 780 years between the Umayyad conquest of Hispania in 711, the expansion of the Christian kingdoms throughout Iberia, and the fall of the Nasrid kingdom of Granada in 1492.

Smile Well, the following wiki-article traces Portugal's national origin back to 12th century, 1 century earlier than I assumed:

Quote
Portugal traces its national origin to 24 June 1128, the date of the Battle of S�£o Mamede. Afonso proclaimed himself Prince of Portugal after this battle and in 1139, he assumed the title King of Portugal. In 1143, the Kingdom of León recognised him as King of Portugal by the Treaty of Zamora. In 1179, the papal bull Manifestis Probatum of Pope Alexander III officially recognised Afonso I as king. After the Battle of S�£o Mamede, the first capital of Portugal was Guimar�£es, from which the first king ruled. Later, when Portugal was already officially independent, he ruled from Coimbra.
 

From a couple of comments you made earlier, Vanuatu, I'd assume that your ancestry could be somehow related to Portugal, so I am in no position to challenge you on that part of history then Smile


Edited by Novosedoff - 09 Aug 2020 at 19:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2020 at 19:09
Originally posted by Novosedoff Novosedoff wrote:

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

That was fast.
Where do you find the sovereign nation of "Portugal" in the Reconquista? Do you suggest that wiki using the word Portuguese to describe "reconquest" is retroactive sovereignty?

The 
Reconquista[note 1] (Portuguese and Spanish for "reconquest") was a period in the history of the Iberian Peninsula of about 780 years between the Umayyad conquest of Hispania in 711, the expansion of the Christian kingdoms throughout Iberia, and the fall of the Nasrid kingdom of Granada in 1492.

Smile Well, the following wiki-article traces Portugal's national origin back to 12th century, 1 century before I assumed:

Quote
Portugal traces its national origin to 24 June 1128, the date of the Battle of S�£o Mamede. Afonso proclaimed himself Prince of Portugal after this battle and in 1139, he assumed the title King of Portugal. In 1143, the Kingdom of León recognised him as King of Portugal by the Treaty of Zamora. In 1179, the papal bull Manifestis Probatum of Pope Alexander III officially recognised Afonso I as king. After the Battle of S�£o Mamede, the first capital of Portugal was Guimar�£es, from which the first king ruled. Later, when Portugal was already officially independent, he ruled from Coimbra.
 

From a couple of comments you made earlier, Vanuatu, I'd assume that your ancestry could be somehow related to Portugal, so I am in no position to challenge you on that part of history then Smile
Before you call Portugal a sovereign nation, determine the ethnic differences between the Spanish & Portuguese. They do not exist, the Romans used the Iberian Peninsula and named it Hispania Citerior and Hispania Ulterior but there was no autonomy for Portugal from Spain until 1139. The Templars are there in 1128. Portugal did not build or travel by sea until after the Templars left France.
Before the Templars the peninsula is nothing but sheep and farmers not a military force, no masons nor shipbuilders. 

Portugal is a country that had been founded by the Templar's. In 1128, the order of the Knights Templar settled in Portugal, and gradually took over the country's military and commercial strength. ... In 1160, a Knights Templar castle was constructed in Tomar, and became the orders headquarters in Portugal.Aug 7, 2017


In modern history, Spain and Spanish have become increasingly associated with the Kingdom of Spain alone, although this process took several centuries. After the union of the central peninsular Kingdom of Castile with the eastern peninsular Kingdom of Aragon in the 15th century under the Catholic Monarchs in 1492, only Navarra and Portugal were left to complete the whole peninsula under one monarchy. Navarre followed soon after in 1512, and Portugal, after over 400 years as an independent and sovereign nation, in 1580. During this time, the concept of Spain was still unchanged. It was after the restoration of Portugal's independence in 1640 when the concept of Spain started to shift and be applied to all the Peninsula except Portugal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Novosedoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2020 at 19:32
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Before you call Portugal a sovereign nation, determine the ethnic differences between the Spanish & Portuguese. They do not exist

Well, perhaps I will shock you even more with my very ignorant opinion, but to me almost all Mediterranean nations look  pretty much the same, incl. Jews, Spanish, Arabs, Italians (excl. Turks, of course and a few other nations) Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2020 at 19:51
Originally posted by Novosedoff Novosedoff wrote:

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Before you call Portugal a sovereign nation, determine the ethnic differences between the Spanish & Portuguese. They do not exist

Well, perhaps I will shock you even more with my very ignorant opinion, but to me almost all Mediterranean nations look  pretty much the same, incl. Jews, Spanish, Arabs, Italians (excl. Turks, of course and a few other nations) Smile
I cannot disagree
how refreshing Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Novosedoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2020 at 19:55
I mean I can easily go unnoticed almost anywhere in Northern Europe with my green eyes and chestnut hair, but in the Mediterranean region I would definitely look alien, although I do like the Mediterranean region very much Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2020 at 20:54
Originally posted by Novosedoff Novosedoff wrote:

I mean I can easily go unnoticed almost anywhere in Northern Europe with my green eyes and chestnut hair, but in the Mediterranean region I would definitely look alien, although I do like the Mediterranean region very much Smile
I'm often mistaken for being Arab, more so the further north we go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Novosedoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2020 at 13:31

As can be seen from the below slide, the mortality statistics of human trafficking stayed pretty much the same (10-15%) even in 19th century  





Edited by Novosedoff - 22 Aug 2020 at 13:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Novosedoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2020 at 15:47
I actually was right by claiming that Portuguese Reconquista had been over by the mid of 13 century Smile Check the below wiki article

Quote King Afonso III of Portugal recaptures Faro and Silves in the Algarve from the Moors, thus ending the Portuguese Reconquista.[1]


Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by Novosedoff Novosedoff wrote:

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

That was fast.
Where do you find the sovereign nation of "Portugal" in the Reconquista? Do you suggest that wiki using the word Portuguese to describe "reconquest" is retroactive sovereignty?

The 
Reconquista[note 1] (Portuguese and Spanish for "reconquest") was a period in the history of the Iberian Peninsula of about 780 years between the Umayyad conquest of Hispania in 711, the expansion of the Christian kingdoms throughout Iberia, and the fall of the Nasrid kingdom of Granada in 1492.

Smile Well, the following wiki-article traces Portugal's national origin back to 12th century, 1 century before I assumed:

Quote
Portugal traces its national origin to 24 June 1128, the date of the Battle of S�£o Mamede. Afonso proclaimed himself Prince of Portugal after this battle and in 1139, he assumed the title King of Portugal. In 1143, the Kingdom of León recognised him as King of Portugal by the Treaty of Zamora. In 1179, the papal bull Manifestis Probatum of Pope Alexander III officially recognised Afonso I as king. After the Battle of S�£o Mamede, the first capital of Portugal was Guimar�£es, from which the first king ruled. Later, when Portugal was already officially independent, he ruled from Coimbra.
 

From a couple of comments you made earlier, Vanuatu, I'd assume that your ancestry could be somehow related to Portugal, so I am in no position to challenge you on that part of history then Smile
Before you call Portugal a sovereign nation, determine the ethnic differences between the Spanish & Portuguese. They do not exist, the Romans used the Iberian Peninsula and named it Hispania Citerior and Hispania Ulterior but there was no autonomy for Portugal from Spain until 1139. The Templars are there in 1128. Portugal did not build or travel by sea until after the Templars left France.
Before the Templars the peninsula is nothing but sheep and farmers not a military force, no masons nor shipbuilders. 

Portugal is a country that had been founded by the Templar's. In 1128, the order of the Knights Templar settled in Portugal, and gradually took over the country's military and commercial strength. ... In 1160, a Knights Templar castle was constructed in Tomar, and became the orders headquarters in Portugal.Aug 7, 2017


In modern history, Spain and Spanish have become increasingly associated with the Kingdom of Spain alone, although this process took several centuries. After the union of the central peninsular Kingdom of Castile with the eastern peninsular Kingdom of Aragon in the 15th century under the Catholic Monarchs in 1492, only Navarra and Portugal were left to complete the whole peninsula under one monarchy. Navarre followed soon after in 1512, and Portugal, after over 400 years as an independent and sovereign nation, in 1580. During this time, the concept of Spain was still unchanged. It was after the restoration of Portugal's independence in 1640 when the concept of Spain started to shift and be applied to all the Peninsula except Portugal.
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