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Is Brazil really democratic?

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leandrovillela View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote leandrovillela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is Brazil really democratic?
    Posted: 29 Jul 2014 at 20:32
I'm a Brazilian, I live in Brazil since I was born and I love my country, but I decided to create this topic to discuss those ideas with people from all aound the world.


Partycracy
Officially Brazil is a democratic republic since 1989. Before that, in the middle of the Cold War, Brazil was a military dictatorship. But Brazilian democracy is not only fresh and new, but it need to learn how to walk by its own foots. There are many important issues in our country creating severe limitations to the real Democracy people Brazilian people and other people from the world think Brazil is.

The first problem here is our "Partycracy" . Brazilian constitution were created in 1988 at the last years of the Military Government and its ideas is to create the new democratic government. But the senators and the representatives created some important mechanisms to defend their power and making several blockades for the real Democracy.

1 - Only two thirds of our government receive some king of representation from the people. Different from other countries like France or United States the judiciary power is made just by the judges and there aren't important popular jury. To become a judge people must pass through a exam but this exam is created by the old judges, so it make easy they only choose people that think like them. Of course it would be very difficult to elect judges, but the problem in Brazil is the judges are almost like gods, so they are able to judge even other judgments. So if a poor person won a judicial process, the company or the rich person that loses its process can call for another trial, another judgment. There are only few public lawyers, and the process takes from 1 to 10 years.

2 - The executive and the legislative powers are elected by popular vote. in Brazil there is a multi-party state, so people are free to vote whoever they want. But it's never so simple like that. The first issue here is only the higher people from the party, called "Cupula" (in Ensligh the Party's Dome) can decide who will be the candidates. There are no rules about pre-elections so people affiliated to those parties can't decide who will be the candidates. The only way to enter those Domes is to be invited by the other members of the Dome. So, its impossible for anyone in Brazil become candidate and so its impossible to be elected or the become from government if the few people that are part of those Party's Domes don't whant them to be.
Its possible in Brazil to create a new Party, so new Domes could be created. But its almost impossible. To create a party it's necessary to take the signatures of one percent of the voting population from all of 26 states of Brazil. There is not possible to create regional parties like in United States. And even if you collect all these signatures, the judges of the Electoral Tribunal must judge if those signatures should be accepted or not. In 2013 Marina Silva, a former candidate in Presidencial Elections in 2010, had some issues against the Dome for her party and she decided to create her own party. She reunited the signatures that were necessary to create the party but the Electoral Judges decided they would not accept the  creation of the party.

3 - In Brazil the propaganda of the elections are paid by the government. So every channel on TV and radios need to transmit to the people this electoral propaganda. But the parties don't have the same time on TV. This minutes and seconds are divided by a simple rule. Parties that have more people in the legislative power have more minutes on TV. So if a party has 33% of the congress it will have 33% of the elections resources. By doing this even if someone create a new party it would not be possible to this new born party make propaganda on TV or Radio. So the same two or three parties control all the elections since Brazilian so called Democracy were created.  So least than a hundred persons the leaders of those parties, the Domes of those parties, only them decide the elections in Brazil.

4 - Many Brazilian people know their vote could not really change important issues in the government, so they created the obligation to vote. About 80% of the population would not vote if they were not forced to vote. If a Brazilian person don't vote he has to pay a fee, he is prohibited from leaving country, he can't use public services like public Universities.

5 - In Brazil there is re-election like in United States but there are different rules. For executive election it's possible to be re-elected only one time, but it's possible to be elected twice if these are not consecutive. But for the legislative power, for the Congress, they could be re-elected infinite times. So there are some representatives that could the a lifetime ruler. Just the Domes of the parties decide who will be ne next candidates so if you are a representative and you also are inside these Party's Domes you can launch your own candidature every election.

6 - There is a law called "the proportional vote" or "electoral coefficient". this law says that the votes for the representatives do not belong the the candidate people voted for, but they belong to the party. So there is some strange things happening in Brazil. in 2010 elections a clown name Tiririca, loved by the people, were candidate for the representative chamber, he received more than a million of votes. But those votes were transfered to other 11 people choosen by the Party's Dome. So 11 people that didn't receive any popular vote, or just a few popular vote, were elected by the Brazilian Electoral Laws. So its common the parties launch candidatures of popular people that don't understand nothing of politics just for transfer those votes for others. Those candidates don't even need to use their real name but they can be characters like Tiririca was the name of the clown character. In the elections its possible to see spider man, porno stars, and other strange candidates. Years ago Brazilian people voted for a monkey (Macaco Tiao) and it was the second most voted member of the house of the representatives. (Of course the votes for the monkey were considered null)

7 - These is another law called party's fidelity. Its says that a person cannot change from the party after the election and is a party don't like the ideas of an elected representative it's possible to the party to fire this representative and change for whoever they want. So, even the people voted for that clown, if he want to create things against the Party's Dome he will be fired and the party select another one to take its place.

Of course all democracies in all democratic countries have some problems but here in Brazil our Democracy really need to create his own legs and start walking. The protests of 2013 showed some people already know those problems, but the midia in Brazil is another great problem that make more dificult to achieve Brazilian real Democracy

http://bazilianhistory.blogspot.com.br/
Brazilian teacher - phD in Social History by the University of Sao Paulo (USP)
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Northman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2014 at 17:20
What a great topic.
However -  I can't really reflect on your detailed descriptions since our democracy here in Denmark is so much different than the system you describe.  But it will be interesting to follow the thread and see the comments.

And by the way
  

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   If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.    (Albert Einstein)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leandrovillela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2014 at 17:41
Please, explain me some of the differences. I really want to learn more about other democracies to better answer my question.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2014 at 18:18
As far as I know, parties here (Denmark, I am not sure about other european countries) has as such no rights legally, though in reality people often vote for the party. So a candidate can change party as he/she pleases. Some of those doing so have been accused of opportunism, perhaps sometimes with justification. That have raised demands for legal restrictions upon the candidates, but my view is that will be to change a lesser evil (opportunism) for a greater one (too much power to party-leaders), though many will disagree. I think the right principle is one of trust between voter and candidate, were the later is not bound, but responsible for him/her self.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2014 at 19:24
As an overview, this website will provide general information on the danish political system, and you will see the differences right away.


With knowledge of this background lots of misunderstandings can be avoided... - like some US people say:
"You are socialists" LOL




Edited by Northman - 30 Jul 2014 at 19:25
   
   If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.    (Albert Einstein)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2014 at 09:42
leandrovillela
 
I question whether or not Brazil is a true Democracy, with the limitations and restrictions which are imposed.
  1. If votes are "owned" by the party rather than the candidate voted for, why bother nominating candidates at all? Why not simply nominate the party?
  2. Goverment Control of election advertising???
  3. Elected members not able to change parties?
  4. Only two thirds of electorate votes count?

Seems to me to be more of an Oligarchy, or even a Kleptocracy.

It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2014 at 02:47
I think Brazil is not an exception. Everywhere democracy is limited, and politicians are all from the same social club. However, nothing better has been invented as yet. The alternative is tyranny. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2014 at 02:55
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

I think Brazil is not an exception. Everywhere democracy is limited, and politicians are all from the same social club. However, nothing better has been invented as yet. The alternative is tyranny. 
 
Good to hear from you Pinguin.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eetion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2014 at 08:46
Originally posted by leandrovillela leandrovillela wrote:

Please, explain me some of the differences. I really want to learn more about other democracies to better answer my question.


I would be glad to explain democratic system in Turkey, if there is. There is just Oligarchy in here.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2014 at 04:15
I've just read a newspaper article which claims that in one Brazilian state, women applying for jobs in the educational field must first undergo an examination to establish their virginity.
 
ARE THEY BLOODY KIDDING?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PeaceB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2015 at 12:11
After reading this, at least I can relate Brazil to my parents' home country, Korea (South, based in Seoul). Both countries are called democracy based on American presidential system with full of eletoral frauds, briberies, and malpractices.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2015 at 04:12
Yes, I imagine that Brazil is democratic, but perhaps the kind of democracy that has an asterisk * next to it.  Like Iran is democratic, but the (religious) Supreme Leader has to approve of all political candidates.  Or Israel is democratic, as long as the Jewish population stays in the majority.  Or perhaps even, America, with its Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum bipartisan political system.  Or the African presidents-for-life.  I imagine that most countries (or even all of them??) that are democratic have some idiosyncracy that makes observers go hmmm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PeaceB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2015 at 04:29
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I imagine that most countries (or even all of them??) that are democratic have some idiosyncracy that makes observers go hmmm.


And there are people (like Francis Fukuyama) who believe democracy is the only solution to everything and boy they were quite unfortunately wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2015 at 01:05
I believe it was Churchill who said, 'democracy is the worst form of government except all others.'
There is always a concern about tyranny of the majority, and likewise a concern about dominance of
the lowest common denominator.  But I don't know if I would want to endorse aristocracy or monarchy as an alternative.  Mostly when you see aristocracy or monarchy, the government is a mixed government.  Thailand has a monarchy, but also a democratic voting, at least when the military is not exerting itself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2015 at 02:31
I don't think democracy is mob mentality but correct if I'm wrong.  Democracy is the idea that every individual can be allowed to represent himself.  The reason why there is the impression of some majority crap is because people are blinded by the idea that various political parties are in opposition of each other.  While this may be true in a place which practices runaway pluralism it does not work in a place which exercises federalism where the different political parties are more likened to different focus groups of the same whole.  Monarchy was the thing that people were trying to get away from so I think the implication that democracy looks for monarcy as an alterative is incredibly slim.

I think there is a great deal of confusion between how democracy functions and what the effects are.  The accumulative effect of democracy is that all people are allowed to have say and do what they want.  The society becomes free.  That is not the same as all people in democracy have transformed into a mob whenever they happen to agree upon something or by virtue of being characterized by the same longing for significant degrees of freedom.


Edited by literaryClarity - 03 Jun 2015 at 02:38
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PeaceB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2015 at 13:31
But overall, I think Brazil would be much better under a single party socialism a la Venezuela.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2015 at 06:50
And you base that on the fact that things are going so well in Venezuela??

Democracy is not about representation, it is about participation, you may not have voted for a particular candidate, but by voting you have bought into the process.  While you might not feel represented by the elected officer, that officer is supposed to also represent you.  
England is a mixed government, a mixture of democracy and monarchy.  With England, you not only have the monarchy, but also the aristocracy/class distinction, something that Americans don't really understand very well.  Japan is a mixed government, Thailand is a mixed government, albeit the democracy part is a little shaky these days.  

a single "party" socialism is really a dictator (tyrant) at the top, with the media under his control.  Dissent is squashed, independent media is squashed, the masses are bought off by subsidized goods at the cost of anyone trying to actually run a business.  The poor become thugs beating up on the opponents of the current regime, or for that matter beating up people for the hell of it.  You might try to find out how violent Venezuela is since Chavez and then his successor come to power.  Even Venezuela's wealth in oil is hindered by obsolete equipment.  Venezuela's infrastructure is quite poor these days.  Venezuela can't afford to give Cuba free oil these days, which is one reason affecting Cuba's and their desire to normalize relations with the US.  President Obama made it too easy on them, not asking for the release of dissidents or anything else in return for normalization.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fintan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2015 at 16:31
Hello

The problem is that after a dictatorship never comes a democracy, comes an oligarchy and after, if the nation is very, very luck, a democracy.

There are very few authenticate democracies in the world, USA is the best draw, France, Israel, even England is not a democracy is a parliamentary monarchy with a good tradition of representation. Brazil is a oligarchy the same that Denmark, but without the bad habits of corruption that have the catholic countries.  Grecia even is not a European country in mind set, only have to see his latest History. Rusia is an oligarchy plenty of corruption, but very rich.

Ucrania is Dirctly a fascist state. Cause oligarchy nowadays is very near to fascism that is social democrat the total nihilism in political affaires.

Sorry but this is the truth. We lives in a world of oligarchy that call himself democracy but is really fascism.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fintan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2015 at 16:34
American (USA) don't understand the english parliament, I should say better than they invent the representative democracy against the british parliament.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fintan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2015 at 16:44
The key to understand the actual British regime, is the civil war the parliament fought against the king, Charles I. They changed sovereingty from the king to a representative parliament.
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